Art O'Neill Challenge 2011

Stark

4 stars (good)

An unfair criticism. Competent does not mean infallible. I was with that group at the start. We made a 500 metre mistake veering right of an indistinct open mountain summit(according to my GPS watch) at night in heavy fog with no moon before rejoining the other groups. Not the end of the world, although a difficult situation to handle when you're also trying to herd a group of about 20 tired and frustrated people.

Meanwhile, further on on the course, I encountered people standing around at road junctions with looks of confusion on their faces staring at GPS screens...

Stark

4 stars (good)

ocnoc wrote:

There were a lot of people who were unprepared physically for the challenge, if you disagree, just look at the large numbers that got the bus back from the Wicklow Gap road.

You should always challenge yourself, but be realistic.

To be fair, I wouldn't think less of anyone for dropping out of the event. You could be physically prepared but having a crap time of it and drop out due to sleep deprivation or blisters or whatever (and apparently a lot of people got blisters from walking 26km on tarmac in hiking boots before the open mountain section). Or you could be simply unsure of your preparedness but decide to give it a go anyway knowing the option was there to drop out at Kippure or Wicklow Gap. And that's okay too, if you don't try, you won't know. I know I had it in mind starting that I might be one of the ones to take the bus home from the Gap, as it happens I was still feeling fresh when I got there and well able to finish the thing under my own steam but I wasn't to know that before trying it.

bpollard

Stark wrote: »

An unfair criticism. Competent does not mean infallible. I was with that group at the start. We made a 500 metre mistake veering right of an indistinct open mountain summit(according to my GPS watch) at night in heavy fog with no moon before rejoining the other groups. Not the end of the world, although a difficult situation to handle when you're also trying to herd a group of about 20 tired and frustrated people.

Meanwhile, further on on the course, I encountered people standing around at road junctions with looks of confusion on their faces staring at GPS screens...

Agree with you 100% Stark! Competent does not mean infallible neither does it mean you are an idiot. Labelling people is what got to me. Painting people with one brush is what really annoyed me. What was defined as proof was bull.

Look, we are not here to point fingers or blame people. We should not be slandering people either. I say fair play to anyone who got up off their ass to compete in such an event. If things didnt go to plan or if you ran a little too hard it is a lesson learned. Nobody has the right to insult you or disregard what you did.

Good luck to all who compete. And thanks again to the guys who lead our group last year - like me I hope they learned something from the experience.

Bren

ocnoc

3 stars (average)

bpollard wrote: »

2. Guides were fresh and did not take into consideration some of group had run first portion no matter what pace they ran at. Start off moderately and build up pace would be my recommendation.

6. Cannot understand how someone cannot have right kit when we have kit check at sign in. wonder do we need to complete kit check as we leave Kippure house.

7. I believe that was the first group walk that some guides ever took on so it was a learning curve for quite a few people. So in my opinion guides should not be so quick to fault others. My own personal issue was I got ill and dehyrated which was naive and appreciated the eventual help from guides.
8. We have all had to pull out of races\events in the past as stated by a guide last year and it is naive to think this is down to fitness or being unprepared.


With the role of guide comes great responsibility. Hopefully some of the guides have learned from this experience on the importance of motivating group & keeping them together. Rather than accusing those of us who pulled out on last stage of being unprepared and idiots, maybe the guides should analyse the % of their groups that pulled out of the event compared with other groups. lets be honest people in the group I was in considered themselves advanced so thought of themselves as well prepared.

2. I'd say most guides were not fresh. Having been up since 6 the previous morning and sorting out everything at Dublin Castle, it wasn't ideal prep to lead a group of ~15(?) in the mountains in zero vis conditions. Map reading and making sure everyone is there or there abouts takes a lot out of you. Walk for 15hours.... then navigate for 15hours. See what takes more out of you.

6. I turned people away when doing the gear check. I had no problem doing it. Mountain rescue said they would be fine. ie they paid money, they have the minium, they'll live.
I fully disagreed and had an argument. Some people did not have the right kit.

7. Yup! First for a lot. It was the guides job to guide, not babysit.

8. Everyone pulls out of a race now and then. It is usually due to fitness or been unprepared. Blisters - feet arent strong enough, thats fitness. Wrong food - not fully prepared. I am not belittling someone for pulling out.
I'm annoyed that people enter not realising how hard the event is.

I'm sure a lot of lessons were learned. But also, how many people call themselves advanced when they clearly aren't.
Advanced in one persons eyes is not advanced in another.

ocnoc

3 stars (average)

watercarrier wrote: »

cant be called competent if they got lost;)

Personally, if someone says they never get lost - be very afraid!
Cause when they get lost, they won't know what to do.

I am an expert in making myself unlost! :P

RacoonQueen

I threaten to do this every year - doubt I'd manage to run the whole thing by January. If the weather doesn't turn rotten I might give it a shot this time round would at least give me something to aim towards before Connemara.

How much would the essential kit set me back? I've very little of what was in last years kit...

figs

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I threaten to do this every year - doubt I'd manage to run the whole thing by January.

If you start now...

RacoonQueen

figs wrote: »

If you start now...

I also sometimes have trouble finding my way around in daylight.

donothoponpop

feck the kit for the moment, get yourself an Eastwest map of the region and recce the offroad parts in daylight. You've been talkimg about hillrunning for years, time to get out there and start running. You'll love it

kingQuez

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I also sometimes have trouble finding my way around in daylight.

Aside from training to run that far I need to brush up on my navigation skills, working out the northings and eastings with the scouts was a long time ago for me. By the sounds of things relying on GPS isn't the best of ideas

Helicon1

This is a great event. The night time training and getting to Wicklow for recces on weekends just adds to the enjoyment.

The recces are a huge assistance because you can make your route choices in daylight on a relatively short outing. On the recces you can also save important waypoints on your GPS watch for the event itself.

This year there will be a close to full moon which could help a lot (weather dependent) and make for an even more enjoyable night.

RacoonQueen

donothoponpop wrote: »

feck the kit for the moment, get yourself an Eastwest map of the region and recce the offroad parts in daylight. You've been talkimg about hillrunning for years, time to get out there and start running. You'll love it

Ah Reccemaster.

Well if I can't afford the essential kit for the race there will be no race. :pac:

If I do recces that'll take away one of my excuses! I was kinda planning on getting to the hills on the night, playing the damsal in distress card and getting someone to be my navigator. Do you think that would work? I think a few of the guys did some group recces last year, might be a good idea this year, hopefully there won't be inches of snow putting a stop to outdoor training...

kingQuez wrote: »

Aside from training to run that far I need to brush up on my navigation skills, working out the northings and eastings with the scouts was a long time ago for me. By the sounds of things relying on GPS isn't the best of ideas

Getting you to leave a breadcrumb trail for me is probably not going to work then?

nerraw1111

4 stars (good)

From what I can remember the cost of mandatory kit wasn't that expensive but it depends on what you have to buy.

You should have a lot of the stuff from running. The only thing I had to buy was a survival blanket jacket which was about €20 and goretex trousers. I spent about €100 on the trousers which was money well spent. I picked them up in the 53 North Degrees sale in January.

donothoponpop

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Ah Reccemaster.

Well if I can't afford the essential kit for the race there will be no race. :pac:

Jeez I don't want that moniker to stick:D

What I mean about the kit is, you can forget about it for the short-term. Get yourself into the hills, and run in some of the terrain, get a feeling for your surroundings: that's the more important part. If it's for you, you'll start picking up pieces of kit piece by piece (hill running shoes, compass, map, etc.) as your runs require more equipment. There's lots of hill routes you can practice on that are only a 44b bus route away.

This map will be the best €11 you can spend, when you want to practice on the route itself.

ezikel

HI All,

Apologies for the delay in the site. We should be going live by the end of the weekend. Clearing final bit of red tape etc.

Also, there is a change to the date. Originally we had planned the 6th of Jan but we are pushing it out a further week to the 13th of Jan. I hope this does not inconvenience people too much. This was requested of us this week.

Other thing to note is that there are environmental restrictions on the event this year as the route passes through areas which are not usually walked on, so our numbers are limited. It is advised to enter early if you are thinking of doing the challenge.

I will start a new thread on here when the site goes live. This time I am goign to have a strong emphasis on the Facebook page as a resource for challengers to get tips and hints etc, rather than having a FAQ. We will se how it goes!

G

Fi H

4 stars (good)

This is turning into an interesting thread

I did this last year but was one of the unfortunate ones who had to drop out at Kippure House. I put this down to trying to go a good bit faster than my usual pace to keep up with a specific group which then led to blisters from being in the wrong shoes and socks for the first part of the challenge. I would say I would have been able for the distance but not the weather conditions which led to my usually comfortable gear being uncomfortable- lesson learned for this year. The trek out on tarmac is tough going - IMO I would love if we could do this on a bike instead wishful thinking i know

Having to drop out does not mean you didnt have the gear or werent capable of the challenge or are an idiot, I was offered the chance to go out in a group at Kippure but I decided it was best to stop rather than becoming a hinderance for a group in better condition. Theres nothing more demotivating than knowing you are holding a group of people back or listening to one person moaning their way along In terms of not being physically prepared, i doubt there were many people ready for snow, ice, overnight, freezing etc conditions! The conditions were not ideal and i think the guides who offered their services were really impressive.

This challenge from everything I've seen is aimed at being positive and open to anyone who wishes to give it a go. Its not really a race so it shouldnt really be viewed competitively. It is also set up specifically to allow people to give it a go and then drop out if they cannot continue. In a challenge things dont always go as planned and being negative doesnt help. If you cant accept that guides get lost and sometimes people are tired and make mistakes then I dont think this is the challenge for you! Either learn to navigate yourself or dont enter - simple as!

Gravale

Head over to here where the main discussion is taking place:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056395270