Is this beast a baby sparrow?? (Bob and Cede)

j@utis

Judgement Day wrote: »

Guess you won't find out until he/she does or does not lay an egg as the sexes are indistinguishable. Progress just amazing.

err that's gonna be some 'surprise' when one day our Bob turns out to be a Sally

ok, then lets wait for the red marks to come in. he's still not interested in eating grain or eating himself, wants to be handfed and that's it. he occasionally rolls a grain in his beak and then spits it out without trying to open it. soft fruit seems to be his favorite, today he munched through a good slice of banana

Nozebleed

mum of the year award coming your way!

Funkyzeit

Possibly the best thread ever on boards...

Oliverdog

Nozebleed wrote: »

mum of the year award coming your way!

Not unless she passes the regurgitation test.

Feargal as Luimneach

Oliverdog wrote: »

Not unless she passes the regurgitation test.

x2

j@utis

you'r sick

donal7

I think you should release him/her soon.

It's cruel to have it caged up if you ask me and should be where it belongs out in the open. I don't mean to be critical here.

Great job though on getting it to the stage you have so far.

glanman

donal7 wrote: »

I think you should release him/her soon.

It's cruel to have it caged up if you ask me and should be where it belongs out in the open. I don't mean to be critical here.

Great job though on getting it to the stage you have so far.

Have you not read the thread?? An animal bred in captivity will rarely if ever survive in the wild. The odds of a wild bird surviving a year are even small enough!

Wheelsonthebus

Great thread- been following it for a while.

Dont know anything about birds but are you going to release him or as a previous poster said, is that a bad idea with hand reared birds?

Might sound completely naive of me but as I said I dont have a clue- would be grateful if someone could answer. What would happen if you let him outside for a while? Would he be in danger of attack (obviously from cats and dogs, but I mean from other birds, as I presume OP would be there to ensure his safety)? Would he just fly off and never come back? Or would he treat the home/the area around his home as his turf and stay put?

Wheelsonthebus

Wheelsonthebus wrote: »

Great thread- been following it for a while.

Dont know anything about birds but are you going to release him or as a previous poster said, is that a bad idea with hand reared birds?

Might sound completely naive of me but as I said I dont have a clue- would be grateful if someone could answer. What would happen if you let him outside for a while? Would he be in danger of attack (obviously from cats and dogs, but I mean from other birds, as I presume OP would be there to ensure his safety)? Would he just fly off and never come back? Or would he treat the home/the area around his home as his turf and stay put?

Probably wouldnt survive , but you dont know that for sure. At the end of the day parrots are wild birds also, so its much of a muchness.

Morganna

Lovely to see more pics of Bob.its a great cage you have for him .Maybe a canary would do as a friend for him later on.You did a great job rearing Bob.Please keep us updated.HE WILL LIVE HAPPILY IN A CAGE .You will need canary seed for him i think but nt sure .I know the goldfinches love nuts .Well done to you im really enjoying this thread.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Wheelsonthebus wrote: »

Dont know anything about birds but are you going to release him or as a previous poster said, is that a bad idea with hand reared birds?

Might sound completely naive of me but as I said I dont have a clue- would be grateful if someone could answer. What would happen if you let him outside for a while? Would he be in danger of attack (obviously from cats and dogs, but I mean from other birds, as I presume OP would be there to ensure his safety)? Would he just fly off and never come back? Or would he treat the home/the area around his home as his turf and stay put?

I firmly believe that this bird would not last 2 days if released. The mortality rate for newly fledged birds is high anyway but this little chap would have no chance on his own. If let out he will almost certainly not fly about and then return home. He would probably fly off, maybe hang about the garden for a spell and then be lost.
At this point he's better off as a well cared for cage bird. It's no more cruel than keeping a Canary or Budgie, as he was to all intents and purposes captive born.

Mint Sauce

donal7 wrote: »

I think you should release him/her soon.

It's cruel to have it caged up if you ask me and should be where it belongs out in the open. I don't mean to be critical here.

Great job though on getting it to the stage you have so far.

it'd be crueler to let him go, he has been hand reared since almost birth and if you read the thread, continues to be. horrible to say, but i reakon bob would be unlikely to survive more than a few days in the wild, he would probably either starve or be picked off by a larger bird or animal.

j@utis you have been a fantasic foster mum to bob, keep it up, absolutly loving this thread.

ThunderCat

Jolene Rancid Postage wrote: »

I firmly believe that this bird would not last 2 days if released. The mortality rate for newly fledged birds is high anyway but this little chap would have no chance on his own. If let out he will almost certainly not fly about and then return home. He would probably fly off, maybe hang about the garden for a spell and then be lost.
At this point he's better off as a well cared for cage bird. It's no more cruel than keeping a Canary or Budgie, as he was to all intents and purposes captive born.

Jolene Rancid Postage knows his stuff so id take the above bit of advice as gospel. There is no way he'd survive in the wild.

PS - If you do decide to get him a companion later on, id get either a zebra finch or canary. Dont get a cockatiel, budgie or lovebird due to size and behavioural differences. Also I think you may need to house the canary/zebra finch in a seperate cage next to bobs cage for a few days or so in order for them to get used to one another before sharing a cage. Don't quote me on that though. Great cage you got for him by the way. Not many birds his size get a cage that spacious.

donal7

Sorry folks - my bad. Didnt realise it would be best for the little guy to be kept as is.

They've gone a great job considering the state it was found in the first few pics. Well done.

j@utis

thanks for a good word. I was thinking a lot about letting him fly free but it looks like his chances of survival are very small if not none.

I let him out the cage now and then to make few laps around the room. He seems to enjoy it, flies around the room about 5-6 times chirping with an excitement. There's no problem to 'catch' him, he doesn't try to avoid to be picked up.

Getting him a friend is not that simple as I've thought. Two pet shops in Bray only sells finches in pairs, they're zebra finches and omg they're ugly as hell and the noises they make would hurt your ears. Canaries are cutter, so I might get a canary instead, but they're 20 quid each, and I want some cheap nothing special bird just to keep bob a company.

Feargal as Luimneach

Jolene Rancid Postage wrote: »

I firmly believe that this bird would not last 2 days if released. The mortality rate for newly fledged birds is high anyway but this little chap would have no chance on his own. If let out he will almost certainly not fly about and then return home. He would probably fly off, maybe hang about the garden for a spell and then be lost.
At this point he's better off as a well cared for cage bird. It's no more cruel than keeping a Canary or Budgie, as he was to all intents and purposes captive born.

Canaries and Budgies have been domesticated for many generations so are basically not wild birds anymore.The wildness has been bred out of them. Bob is only one generation removed from the wild. He would still have some wildness in him eventhough he was raised in captivity from an early age. However I do believe Bob remaining in captivity is the correct decision.
Bob needs a companion due to Goldfinches been flock birds.

eightyfish

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Bob is only one generation removed from the wild. He would still have some wildness in him eventhough he was raised in captivity from an early age.

Hi. I've been following this great thread, but haven't contributed because I know nothing about birds. I'm just wondering what you mean by "wildness"? In terms of behaviour, how would Bob behave differently from, say, a Budgie?

Feargal as Luimneach

eightyfish wrote: »

Hi. I've been following this great thread, but haven't contributed because I know nothing about birds. I'm just wondering what you mean by "wildness"? In terms of behaviour, how would Bob behave differently from, say, a Budgie?

Through the process of domestication you get a more placid animal. You generally breed from the more placid animals (especially with companion animals). Most companion animals are selectively bred for this trait and through many generations you end up with a placid animal. Bob has not been bred like this he is just one generation from the wild. I'm not saying Bob is going to be a psycho when he's older. We don't know what he's breeding is like. What we do know is Goldfinches are nervous birds compared to other birds like redpoll, house sparrow, greenfinch that visit bird feeders.

Feargal as Luimneach

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Through the process of domestication you get a more placid animal. You generally breed from the more placid animals (especially with companion animals). Most companion animals are selectively bred for this trait and through many generations you end up with a placid animal. Bob has not been bred like this he is just one generation from the wild. I'm not saying Bob is going to be a psycho when he's older. We don't know what he's breeding is like. What we do know is Goldfinches are nervous birds compared to other birds like redpoll, house sparrow, greenfinch that visit bird feeders.

In summary Phenotype=Genotype + Enviromental factors

Oliverdog

We're relying on this thread for most of our entertainment at the moment ! First thing we check very morning. We're lost in admiration for your efforts.

(Nothing much happens here . . . ) :rolleyes:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Canaries and Budgies have been domesticated for many generations so are basically not wild birds anymore.The wildness has been bred out of them. Bob is only one generation removed from the wild. He would still have some wildness in him

Having reared and kept Canaries and Goldfinches for decades (and my father before me) and having fostered many "wild" finches over the years, I can't accept your limited interpretation of domestication. Wildness is not bred out of Canaries for instance in that more docile birds are not selected for breeding to achieve any level of domestication; many other factors also apply but let's not divert this excellent thread with them. Bob has no more "wildness" in him than any other cage bred finch. Hand reared raptors have no more wildness in them than captive bred birds. Indeed to sucessfully release rescued birds the "wildness" has to be taught to them.
All this aside, we agree keeping him is best.

Feargal as Luimneach

Jolene Rancid Postage wrote: »

Having reared and kept Canaries and Goldfinches for decades (and my father before me) and having fostered many "wild" finches over the years, I can't accept your limited interpretation of domestication. Wildness is not bred out of Canaries for instance in that more docile birds are not selected for breeding to achieve any level of domestication; many other factors also apply but let's not divert this excellent thread with them. Bob has no more "wildness" in him than any other cage bred finch. Hand reared raptors have no more wildness in them than captive bred birds. Indeed to sucessfully release rescued birds the "wildness" has to be taught to them.
All this aside, we agree keeping him is best.

Yes of course you don't just breed for docility. You breed for plumage etc. But at the end of the day,What is Bob bred for ? A life in the wild.
What are domestic Canaries bred for ? A life in captivity.
In these circumstance I believe however Bob is best staying where he is.
Each to their own opinion though!

locohobo

j@utis wrote: »

thanks for a good word. I was thinking a lot about letting him fly free but it looks like his chances of survival are very small if not none.

I let him out the cage now and then to make few laps around the room. He seems to enjoy it, flies around the room about 5-6 times chirping with an excitement. There's no problem to 'catch' him, he doesn't try to avoid to be picked up.

Getting him a friend is not that simple as I've thought. Two pet shops in Bray only sells finches in pairs, they're zebra finches and omg they're ugly as hell and the noises they make would hurt your ears. Canaries are cutter, so I might get a canary instead, but they're 20 quid each, and I want some cheap nothing special bird just to keep bob a company.

Hey up [EMAIL="j@utis"]j@utis[/EMAIL]...
You've got my total admiration for looking after this little one...

OK!! He will need a companion...and you say canaries cost the bones of 20euro...Well heres what I'd like to do to help in some little way..PM me your name and addy and I'll stump up the 20 for you...
Its the least I can do to reward such a show of humanity..

"WELL DONE YOU"!!!!!

eightyfish

locohobo wrote: »

Its the least I can do

This thread gives me renewed faith in humanity.

Kess73

j@utis wrote: »

thanks for a good word. I was thinking a lot about letting him fly free but it looks like his chances of survival are very small if not none.

I let him out the cage now and then to make few laps around the room. He seems to enjoy it, flies around the room about 5-6 times chirping with an excitement. There's no problem to 'catch' him, he doesn't try to avoid to be picked up.

Getting him a friend is not that simple as I've thought. Two pet shops in Bray only sells finches in pairs, they're zebra finches and omg they're ugly as hell and the noises they make would hurt your ears. Canaries are cutter, so I might get a canary instead, but they're 20 quid each, and I want some cheap nothing special bird just to keep bob a company.

A Zebra finches or a canary adapt well to living with other species, but you would be best to keep whatever bird you get in a cage alongside Bob's cage for a few days to allow them to adjust to one another rather than putting them in together straight away. I would also let Bob get another week or so older before thinking about moving an older bird in with him. Just keep in mind that Bob is still very young. Bob is more developed than a young goldfinch normally would be at this stage though, most likely due to the fact that Bob was not in a nest competing with other fledglings for food and as such has gotten the maximum amount of food that he could get rather than a % of what the parent birds would have brought back.

You should try to get some niger and some sunflower hearts (huskless is less messy for you) as Goldfinch love both, and both are a high energy food, so it would be good for him to have some mixed in with his regular food, but just double check that whatever bird you do buy as company can eat the same food as Bob and vice versa.


I would be another that would advise against letting Bob go at this stage. He has missed his natural fledging time at this point in comparison to the other goldfinch that must have been in the nest he came from, assuming they made it, and that week or so less experience would be more than enough to mark him out as an easy catch for a predator. At this point it would be much kinder, in my opinion anyway, to allow him to live out his life with you in the safety of his cage with whatever company you decide to get for him.

j@utis

locohobo wrote: »

Hey up [EMAIL="j@utis"]j@utis[/EMAIL]...
You've got my total admiration for looking after this little one...

OK!! He will need a companion...and you say canaries cost the bones of 20euro...Well heres what I'd like to do to help in some little way..PM me your name and addy and I'll stump up the 20 for you...
Its the least I can do to reward such a show of humanity..

"WELL DONE YOU"!!!!!

well, it's not that I'm short of money, I just don't like spending it on the things I don't really want. thanks anyways

we got a buddy for bob this morning. Bob is not very friendly with CeDe yet, he turns into a fur ball, opens his beak and takes this aggressive position when the one gets closer :rolleyes: CeDe is very active, moving around non stop, I'd say Bob is now missing his piece and quiet, no more after breakfast snooze, nap after lunch and lazy afternoons

Scarydoll

Wow this is a fantastic thread! Thank you for taking such great care of Bob and posting pictures. Bob and CeDe look cute together:D

j@utis

I'm trying to organize all pictures of Bob I have. Here's some from early days:

Remember I found it on 13th of June, here's bob after two days in our 'intensive care':



And some more days later:

Alun

Wow, I never realized he was that tiny when you first found him! That makes it even more of a feat. Well done!