Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Schadenfreudia

lxflyer wrote: »

RTE reporting that the College Green Bus Gate will be in operation from 7am to 7pm from the end of August to the end of November to facilitate track laying.

Well named lxflyer!

The photo-montage of the new College Green shows a Dublin bus in the old "flyer" livery that disappeared about 15 years ago.

We really do public transport at lightening speed in Ireland, don't we?

Carawaystick

lxflyer wrote: »

RTE reporting that the College Green Bus Gate will be in operation from 7am to 7pm from the end of August to the end of November to facilitate track laying.


Some additional permanent changes to come into effect at a later stage will be:
- No right turn from Dawson Street to Nassau Street
- No right turn from Westmoreland Street to D'Olier Street
- No right turn from O'Connell Bridge to Eden Quay
- No right turn from O'Connell Street to Cathal Brugha Street.


The full article is here:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0611/707492-dublin-transport/

How are cyclists to get from grafton st / temple bar to the north east of the city?
Go up to Church st and back?
run the gauntlet of Townsend/Tara streets
Go around Parnell square?
Or Make illegal right turns?

fly_agaric

I'm curious about luas cross city. It seemed to me its taking a good while to do (or maybe it just feels like that to me because I have to head into Dublin city centre every day for my sins).

The website says it started in June 2013 (I look back & see this thread started in 2010) and will be done in "Sept. 2017" (although for someone like me with only a passing interest, on the graphic the bubble showing finish is positioned hanging at some indeterminate point after Sept. 2017). Route is 5.6 k. That seems to work out at about 170 m per month (a "33 month" contract is mentioned elsewhere).

Is 4+ years typical for such a project (short tram line connecting two others?) or is it being done very slowly to eek the budget out over the years (and sure forget cost of disruption because its tough to quantify that)?

Edit - suppose "tram line connecting two others" is a bit unfair - there's section sticking out into Cabra as well as line connection.

Kermit.de.frog

Typical for Ireland. Very much not typical for other countries.

monument

fly_agaric wrote: »

I'm curious about luas cross city. It seemed to me its taking a good while to do (or maybe it just feels like that to me because I have to head into Dublin city centre every day for my sins).

The website says it started in June 2013 (I look back & see this thread started in 2010) and will be done in "Sept. 2017" (although for someone like me with only a passing interest, on the graphic the bubble showing finish is positioned hanging at some indeterminate point after Sept. 2017). Route is 5.6 k. That seems to work out at about 170 m per month (a "33 month" contract is mentioned elsewhere).

Is 4+ years typical for such a project (short tram line connecting two others?) or is it being done very slowly to eek the budget out over the years (and sure forget cost of disruption because its tough to quantify that)?

Edit - suppose "tram line connecting two others" is a bit unfair - there's section sticking out into Cabra as well as line connection.

On their website, the main works are only scheduled between March of this year and September 2017.

Why do you think they are forgetting about the cost of disruption? The prep work and construction is spread out to limit disruption. It all could be done a lot faster by closing off all the streets... but that would clearly add to disruption.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Typical for Ireland. Very much not typical for other countries.

Do you have any examples where simular projects in simular areas were build much faster than Luas cross city is planned?

Idbatterim

If this airport Luas joke actually gets the go ahead , why lot simply have linked the lines by tunnel? It would have solved a lot of problems ...

veryangryman

monument wrote: »

Do you have any examples where simular projects in simular areas were build much faster than Luas cross city is planned?

I doubt it. Ain't nothing more fun that taking a p1ss on our country.

Anyway, i did a quick google of this and found this fact on a tramway in a similar sized city

Edinburgh Trams is a tramway in Edinburgh, Scotland, operated by Transport for Edinburgh. It is a 14-kilometre (8.7 mi) line between York Place in New Town and Edinburgh Airport, with 15 stops.
Construction began in June 2008, but after encountering a number of delays it did not open until 31 May 2014

LXFlyer

veryangryman wrote: »

I doubt it. Ain't nothing more fun that taking a p1ss on our country.

Anyway, i did a quick google of this and found this fact on a tramway in a similar sized city

Edinburgh Trams is a tramway in Edinburgh, Scotland, operated by Transport for Edinburgh. It is a 14-kilometre (8.7 mi) line between York Place in New Town and Edinburgh Airport, with 15 stops.
Construction began in June 2008, but after encountering a number of delays it did not open until 31 May 2014

I would not cite Edinburgh trams as any form of meaningful comparison - it encountered huge political and contractor issues, including have to re-award the main construction contract, and was delayed repeatedly as a result.

markpb

The Los Angeles Expo line is being built in two phases; the first phase comprises the 8.6-mile (13.8 km) section between Downtown Los Angeles and Culver City. Construction began in early 2006 and most stations opened to the public on April 28, 2012.

That's about 188m per month.

cgcsb

It is a much longer project than say the luas to Citywest extension was primarily because of it's location. Access must be maintained at all times, services must be diverted, georgian basements must be filled in.

nowecant

I would not support the Luas to Dublin Airport unless it was as an additional mode of transport on top of HR8 and/or Metro North and then only if we got a lot of other transport priorities completed first, Dart Underground and removal of the remaining Level Crossings being the main ones in my opinion.

I would however support the extension of Luas Cross City north across the tolka to serve areas of Finglas and some of the Industrial estates up there. There has been some discussion of the pros and cons on another form http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056158305

If that was mapped out for the next 5 years or so it would definitely be worth considering extending it towards the airport after.

fly_agaric

monument wrote: »

On their website, the main works are only scheduled between March of this year and September 2017.

Okay, excellent, just 30 months for the main works.
Just bothered to add it up and the timeline starting in 2013 shows 57 months (only 98 m/month using that).
I suppose the length of such a project depends on how you wish to measure it, of maybe you could tell me if there's a standard?

Using my somewhat unreliable memory, there's been construction fences up in city centre slowing traffic (incl. buses), holes in the ground with piles of aggregate beside them creating dirt and grime about the place when the wind blows, footpaths torn up & closed off etc since early 2014 I think.
When I look at the timeline I see utilities diversion begins Sept 2013, maybe that's a fair place to start since that's probably when they began digging up streets and paths in earnest. That gives 117 m/month.

monument wrote: »

Why do you think they are forgetting about the cost of disruption? The prep work and construction is spread out to limit disruption. It all could be done a lot faster by closing off all the streets... but that would clearly add to disruption.

Well if they closed off sections (as they do now) and worked hell for leather on them until done it would be quicker and less disruptive but would increase the labour costs alot. And the whole project cost is spread over less time.
City council took eternity to do new (edit - well not new any more) paving and landscaping on O'Connell street, presumably to eek out the cost of a very large set of works from the councils' budget each year (its a very big street) so I was thinking something similar might be happening here (at national level) to spare the post crash transport budgets.

Schadenfreudia

Did you add in 2km for the extra line on Marlborough St?

That would be 7.6km, giving about 160m/month.

ongarboy

Some serious construction/foundation work going on alongside Broombridge train station now...I assume it's work associated with the Luas terminus? Will the layout be something similar to what you see at Connolly or Stephens Green termini?

LXFlyer

The plans are here:

http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/26_BXD_P_30_C-D.pdf

http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/27_BXD_P_30_D-0.pdf

Telchak

ongarboy wrote: »

Will the layout be something similar to what you see at Connolly or Stephens Green termini?

(click for bigger size)

FreudianSlippers

Not sure I'd be leaving my car there all day expecting to find it in one piece when I get back!

loyatemu

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Not sure I'd be leaving my car there all day expecting to find it in one piece when I get back!

is the parking just for the depot? it's a pretty small carpark.

afatbollix

Any photos of the works for the people who don't see it every day.


The photo updates on the M18 thread are great as you don't get to see how much progress is made.

monument

loyatemu wrote: »

is the parking just for the depot? it's a pretty small carpark.

Yes, it's in a staff-only area.

For the public it's only kiss-(the-kerb)-and-ride.

AngryLips

Shouldn't they place an entrance to Broombridge IE station at the Luas platform end of the station once they build this? What's with the walking-to-the-opposite-end BS we have here?

noelfirl

AngryLips wrote: »

Shouldn't they place an entrance to Broombridge IE station at the Luas platform end of the station once they build this? What's with the walking-to-the-opposite-end BS we have here?

The plans show two entrances from the Luas platform to Broombridge 'station' as far as I can see, one at either end of the Luas platforms, and one of which leads to a pedestrian bridge over the railway.

Here's the PDF plan for the structures to zoom in on:

http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/02-STRUCTURES/17_BXD_ST_30_D-0.pdf

Pete_Cavan

Serious lack of bicycle parking for a station with a huge population living within cycling distance and a geeenway being developed alongside.

monument

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Serious lack of bicycle parking for a station with a huge population living within cycling distance and a geeenway being developed alongside.

For Broombridge and other locations in outer areas, ie Red Cow etc, they really should be looking at secure lockers and other solutions beyond just racks.

afatbollix

No way would I leave a bike at Broombridge

nowecant

Got the bus past the Broadstone depot on constitution Hill this morning. New site office portacabins being placed exactly where the old Maxol server station was. Looks like work might be ramping up in that area.

In fact looking at these plans I would almost say the cabins are just south of the tracks inside the old maxol compound

http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/03-UTILITIES/07_BXD_UC_29_E-0.pdf

AngryLips

monument wrote: »

For Broombridge and other locations in outer areas, ie Red Cow etc, they really should be looking at secure lockers and other solutions beyond just racks.

I was at IE's Castleknock station and they have these. They don't have the same at Broombridge?

nowecant

They seem to be finished all the utilities diversion at Stein Island, they had been working on that one section for months

markpb

AngryLips wrote: »

I was at IE's Castleknock station and they have these. They don't have the same at Broombridge?

They don't have _anything_ at Broombridge!

Captain Chaos

AngryLips wrote: »

I was at IE's Castleknock station and they have these. They don't have the same at Broombridge?

They don't even have ticket machines at Broombridge as they both got thrown in the can canal, twice!

Sometimes the trains won't stop at Broombridge becuase of antisocial behaviour and the trains regularly get stoned by the local yobs going by.