Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

sheff the ref

In fairness it never made sense to retain any of the existing structure, but perhaps planning restrictions required it, and it meant that they then had to demolish partially step by step to prove that the old structure could not be retained

case885

clerk wrote:

l don't have a pic but all's left are the posts (or whatever the term is!!) on the terraces and if l was a betting man the professional builders will have them down yet.

clerk wrote:

The process of knocking the stadium to date has been a complete and utter balls up of epic proportions.

clerk wrote:

lt's taken 6 Months to get to the current state, an absolute shambles the whole thing.

I thought construction wasn't meant to start until spring this year anyway and extra demolition work had to be done.
They say it's still due to be complete on time but I doubt that with all the extra construction.

opus

sheff the ref wrote: »

Any picture updates?

Was down that neck of the woods yesterday on a bit of a run so here're two pics I took.

clerk

sheff the ref wrote: »

In fairness it never made sense to retain any of the existing structure, but perhaps planning restrictions required it, and it meant that they then had to demolish partially step by step to prove that the old structure could not be retained

Right sorry so instead of getting the planning sorted they decided to go ahead with a "step by step" demolition. l'm sorry I take it all back it wasn't a total balls up, that makes perfect sense.

Sounds Dreamy

clerk wrote: »

l don't have a pic but all's left are the posts (or whatever the term is!!) on the terraces and if l was a betting man the professional builders will have them down yet.

The process of knocking the stadium to date has been a complete and utter balls up of epic proportions.

lt's taken 6 Months to get to the current state, an absolute shambles the whole thing.

25th march 2015 was the day they commenced work on site so it's almost 1 year since starting.
Condition of planning is that the project is completed within 30 months so they have 19 months to build new south stand and rebuild the terraces and north stand as well as develop the CoE.

Sounds Dreamy

sheff the ref wrote: »

In fairness it never made sense to retain any of the existing structure, but perhaps planning restrictions required it, and it meant that they then had to demolish partially step by step to prove that the old structure could not be retained

Planning restrictions required them to breach planning? If the Cork County Board were in any way competent maybe they would have known from the start that the terraces, north stand and roof from the south stand could not be retained. Then they could have planned accordingly and build a decent stadium Cork could be proud of rather than the lopsided structure we're going to end up with.

If they had known all four sides were coming down they could have shifted the stadium so that it's not constrained against the embankment and pond. Instead the Cork County Board delayed the project by years chasing their greedy land grab for a bogus one pitch centre of excellence.

sheff the ref

My suspicion is that they knew the whole lot would need to come down, but they also knew that they would not get that across the line due those objecting to planning.

Basically they had to settle for what they got planning for initially. Meanwhile as they stripped the stadium, they obviously confirmed what they already knew - that the old structure wouldn't hold up.

Therefore they are obviously working on a case by case basis with planning department to demolish it all. They don't need planning for this extra demolition work as far as I know, but they need to work with planning department and can proceed as long as there is a genuine health and safety concern.

It may not have been possible to prove this health and safety concern initially before they started stripping the stadium, it may have required the steps of the terraces being removed due to being unsafe to properly assess the support structures which would then have been deemed unsafe

Sounds Dreamy wrote: »

Planning restrictions required them to breach planning? If the Cork County Board were in any way competent maybe they would have known from the start that the terraces, north stand and roof from the south stand could not be retained. Then they could have planned accordingly and build a decent stadium Cork could be proud of rather than the lopsided structure we're going to end up with.

If they had known all four sides were coming down they could have shifted the stadium so that it's not constrained against the embankment and pond. Instead the Cork County Board delayed the project by years chasing their greedy land grab for a bogus one pitch centre of excellence.

clerk

sheff the ref wrote: »

My suspicion is that they knew the whole lot would need to come down, but they also knew that they would not get that across the line due those objecting to planning.

Even if that's true, it's an absolute nonsense of a way of doing a £70m development. The Ireland of strokes bankrupted the Country and this thing will bankrupt Cork GAA.

There's nothing clever at all about it. Irish people have an obsession with the cute hoor because we lack confidence as a Nation. The problem with the cute hoor is that most of them run out of rope at some stage and they leave destruction in their wake.

Some people are in the camp that think the mess that is down there and the cost that it has taken to get to a stage of a stadium that's still not knocked !! is another stroke of genius ? the mind boggles.

clerk

Sounds Dreamy wrote: »

25th march 2015 was the day they commenced work on site so it's almost 1 year since starting.
Condition of planning is that the project is completed within 30 months so they have 19 months to build new south stand and rebuild the terraces and north stand as well as develop the CoE.

edit: correction to my post above, "lt's taken 11 Months to get to the current state, an absolute shambles the whole thing."

sheff the ref

clerk wrote: »

edit: correction to my post above, "lt's taken 11 Months to get to the current state, an absolute shambles the whole thing."

Once the pile foundations are in place I would imagine that progress would be rapid enough. The pre-cast steps slot in like jig saw. Other projects like the Gaelic Grounds, Thurles and Croke Park moved swiftly once that work was done

Sounds Dreamy

sheff the ref wrote: »

Once the pile foundations are in place I would imagine that progress would be rapid enough. The pre-cast steps slot in like jig saw. Other projects like the Gaelic Grounds, Thurles and Croke Park moved swiftly once that work was done

Yes, I expect this will be the case with the terraces.


In the GAA's initial planning application they requested 36 months a lot has changed since and they're down to 30 months.

From walking around the site I notice that they appear to be constrained on the northern side and are working on only two thirds of the north stand (I wouldn't be surprised if the footprint of the north stand increased with the new design).
They already redirected the north culvert and this is now holding water and not draining as it should be. I expect the the northern culvert will need to be moved to the southern side so that work can proceed on the remainder of the northern stand. But the north culvert is there for a reason and that's to gather the water that comes through the levy that separates the Docklands from the River Lee.
Like I said if they had known the stadium was coming down they could have moved it to the centre of the showgrounds and built two equal sized stands rather than a south stand at 40mtrs that's double the size of the north stand at 20mtrs.

Sounds Dreamy

sheff the ref wrote: »

Once the pile foundations are in place I would imagine that progress would be rapid enough. The pre-cast steps slot in like jig saw. Other projects like the Gaelic Grounds, Thurles and Croke Park moved swiftly once that work was done

Yes, I expect this will be the case with the terraces.


In the GAA's initial planning application they requested 36 months a lot has changed and scope of work has increased yet the planning condition reduced it down to 30 months.

From walking around the site I notice that they appear to be constrained on the northern side and are working on only two thirds of the north stand (I wouldn't be surprised if the footprint of the north stand increased with the new design).
They already redirected the north culvert and this is now holding water and not draining as it should be. I expect the the northern culvert will need to be moved to the southern side so that work can proceed on the remainder of the northern stand. But the north culvert is there for a reason and that's to gather the water that comes through the levy that separates the Docklands from the River Lee.
Like I said if they had known the stadium was coming down they could have moved it to the centre of the showgrounds and built two equal sized stands rather than a south stand at 40mtrs that's double the size of the north stand at 20mtrs.

sheff the ref

Sounds Dreamy wrote: »

Yes, I expect this will be the case with the terraces.


In the GAA's initial planning application they requested 36 months a lot has changed since and they're down to 30 months.

From walking around the site I notice that they appear to be constrained on the northern side and are working on only two thirds of the north stand (I wouldn't be surprised if the footprint of the north stand increased with the new design).
They already redirected the north culvert and this is now holding water and not draining as it should be. I expect the the northern culvert will need to be moved to the southern side so that work can proceed on the remainder of the northern stand. But the north culvert is there for a reason and that's to gather the water that comes through the levy that separates the Docklands from the River Lee.
Like I said if they had known the stadium was coming down they could have moved it to the centre of the showgrounds and built two equal sized stands rather than a south stand at 40mtrs that's double the size of the north stand at 20mtrs.

There was a fairly significant protest group at the time and I don't believe they would have allowed the stadium to be moved entirely onto a different spot within the showgrounds. It would also have had an impact on their training pitch behind the covered stand.

They knew the stadium would be coming down allright, but they did the best they could under the circumstances with this sort of a retrospective planning and demolition approach.

Having one stand much higher than the rest of the stadium will cause its own problems with shelter, rain etc. on cold wintry national league and county championship days.

Ron Burgundy II

Its easier to ask for forgiveness than (planning) permission :pac:

Sounds Dreamy

sheff the ref wrote: »

There was a fairly significant protest group at the time and I don't believe they would have allowed the stadium to be moved entirely onto a different spot within the showgrounds. It would also have had an impact on their training pitch behind the covered stand.

They knew the stadium would be coming down allright, but they did the best they could under the circumstances with this sort of a retrospective planning and demolition approach.

Having one stand much higher than the rest of the stadium will cause its own problems with shelter, rain etc. on cold wintry national league and county championship days.

The protest was in relation to the sale of council land for the one pitch centre of excellence.
The moving of the stadium was never on the cards as only one stand was coming down.
To say that the GAA new the stadium was coming down is laughable. This was a €60m project that is now an €80m euro project that they are struggling to fund.

lbj666

Sounds Dreamy wrote: »

The protest was in relation to the sale of council land for the one pitch centre of excellence.
The moving of the stadium was never on the cards as only one stand was coming down.
To say that the GAA new the stadium was coming down is laughable. This was a €60m project that is now an €80m euro project that they are struggling to fund.

Any respectable QS, Architect or Engineer (which they are) would have identified possible structural issues as a major project risk from day 1. Having to level everything was a possibility from the outset. Structural surveys would have quantified this risk better but i haven't a clue if they did them or how thorough it was. Neither am i going to guess that there was an attempt by CCC to pull the woolover peoples eyes with this or not.

But if its gonna now cost €80m given its practically a new ground one can assume a blank canvas design from the off could have been done for the same. In the early stages of its inception there was surely a decision to be made, a €60m redevelopment with a major cost risk ( or a known hidden cost if we're being cynical about it) versus a €80m brand new stadium. Granted it would have been easier to get the former option off the ground but in the long term and for the life cycle of the ground is a lot less, the design is out of date before a sod was turned meaning the cries for work to be done on it again are going to come 10-15 years earlier than they should have.

I don't buy the idea new ground would have been tougher to get through planning the main stand is a montrousity and stands out like a sore thumb and surely the planning risks for a new ground are no worse than the planning mess it is in know.

Sounds Dreamy

This could be a €100m project yet, all for one new towering stand.

From today's evening echo....

"GAA chiefs expect the total cost of redeveloping Páirc Uí Chaoimh to exceed €78m, but are adamant that the increase from an initial €70m estimate will be covered by the sale of long-term tickets."

opus

Any idea what's going on at the far corner of the pond? Spotted it when I was out for a jog this afternoon.

Sounds Dreamy

opus wrote: »

Any idea what's going on at the far corner of the pond? Spotted it when I was out for a jog this afternoon.

New car park gone in by sewage treatment works. Suspect this may become a council site office and they're opening access out onto the pond for ease of access.

What's interesting about this is that the consultants for the marina park masterplan suggested shrinking the footprint of the sewage works by moving fencing etc. What do the council do, they go and add a council carpark.

clerk

Some serious progress this week, some of the new stands gone up on both sides of the stadium.

sheff the ref

clerk wrote: »

Some serious progress this week, some of the new stands gone up on both sides of the stadium.

Any photos?

clerk

sheff the ref wrote: »

Any photos?

No and l probably should qualify that it's literally just some beams and foundations but building and a start none the less.

opus

sheff the ref wrote: »

Any photos?

Passed by this morning.

sheff the ref

I assume they are leaving the original terrace supports so?

Once the pillars are in place, the rest of the work will follow quickly enough as the precast stepping is basically a pick and place operation and some of those may already be precast and waiting to be transported.

In 12 months time ye will be posting pictures of the finished job!!

Pepsirebel

I just hope when they manufacture the steps they'll make them wide enough that seats can be fitted & with enough knee room in a few years when they can afford it

case885

Pepsirebel wrote:

I just hope when they manufacture the steps they'll make them wide enough that seats can be fitted & with enough knee room in a few years when they can afford it

On the terrace? That will never be seated I'd imagine.

P.lane78

Good to see construction on this site ....trust the GAA to pull this project off ...it might be ugly to some peoples taste but it will be delivered. I suggest i will be watching Munster finals and concerts down PuC before the event centre but i hope i am wrong

sheff the ref

Pepsirebel wrote: »

I just hope when they manufacture the steps they'll make them wide enough that seats can be fitted & with enough knee room in a few years when they can afford it

New stadiums generally are OK for legroom.

sheff the ref

A great collection of videos relating to the development

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/heres-what-pairc-ui-chaoimh-looks-like-one-year-since-demolition-work-started-729860.html

opus

Three weeks later and looks like a bit of progress....