Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

Balmed Out

Is city gate phase 3 still to happen?

lisasimpson

Balmed Out wrote: »

Is city gate phase 3 still to happen?

thought I heard site work had already started on it

GavRedKing

The bridge would also have to happen at one of the narrowest points of the channel, which is nearly dirctly across from Pairc Ui Chaoimh but then youve got an issue with Trawllers and ships that go further up the river to the port, the Bridge would need serious clearanceas some of the ships coming up can be pretty large which then leads to another issue, the height of the bridge.

How you can have a bridge thats probably 150 metres long and about 60ft high, have a gradient thats not so harsh it doesnt cause issues for cars and trucks going up over it as on both sides of the river theres very little wiggle room for steadily inclining roads.

clerk

Sounds Dreamy wrote: »

A pedestrian/cycle bridge would make more sense.

I agree with you 100 percent. A pedestrian cycle bridge would be make more sense. Provide access from the north side to the city park, to the Marian and p hi c on match days and take some match traffic out of the equation. Great idea.

clerk

Balmed Out wrote: »

Is city gate phase 3 still to happen?

As far as l am aware boards it's full steam ahead for the next stage at mahon point. The land is there, ready to rock. It's a bit ridiculous to be critical as its job's, job's, job's BUT there is 1 road there for everyone to access mahon point.

The meltdown that was Thursday night, albeit a blocked lane in the tunnel, will become more commonplace.

In the last year in particular lve noticed a lot more cars using black rock as a rat run from mahon point. The thing is the road network in black rock cannot handle heavy traffic. The road down by convent wall to black rock village is gridlocked more often that not these days after work. It seems to be getting worse by the month. That can knock on then down the black rock road and so the phenomenon we call grid lock begins. This is highly applicable to match day traffic as well.

namloc1980

GavRedKing wrote: »

The bridge would also have to happen at one of the narrowest points of the channel, which is nearly dirctly across from Pairc Ui Chaoimh but then youve got an issue with Trawllers and ships that go further up the river to the port, the Bridge would need serious clearanceas some of the ships coming up can be pretty large which then leads to another issue, the height of the bridge.

How you can have a bridge thats probably 150 metres long and about 60ft high, have a gradient thats not so harsh it doesnt cause issues for cars and trucks going up over it as on both sides of the river theres very little wiggle room for steadily inclining roads.

The proposed bridge is a swing bridge which could be opened to allow shipping upstream.

sheff the ref

Ewan McKennas article on it is very interesting. How can stadia with corporate facilities, albeit with a smaller capacity be completed for so much less in the UK?

https://ewanmackenna.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/grounds-for-concern/

GavRedKing wrote: »

I pass it everyday to work, the sites been cleared of the majority of debris for some time now, the last 2 weeks though the site has been like a lake with all the rain, the old south terraced stand side, has a huge depoist of water that hasnt really cleared up in recent days.

All the demplition is done, as far as I can tell but I doubt any major building will begin this side of 2015, probably commence in 2016.

This project though, seems seriously over priced though.

sheff the ref

A bridge would be of huge benefit on match days, as it would allow patrons to walk across from the Silver Springs area. However there is limited enough parking near there. At present there is quite a long walk to the Park from the bridges in the City if someone parked near the Train station. In the past boats used to transfer match supporters across the River Lee near the Park, and I assume this will be the route taken by the bridge

It would probably be of greater benefit on working days. It would allow a release from the Monaghan and Centre Park road and nearby city areas onto the old Dual Carriageway bypassing the gridlock on the City Bridges and in the Blackrock/Mahon areas.

namloc1980 wrote: »

The proposed bridge is a swing bridge which could be opened to allow shipping upstream.

clerk

sheff the ref wrote: »

Ewan McKennas article on it is very interesting. How can stadia with corporate facilities, albeit with a smaller capacity be completed for so much less in the UK?

Excellent article, looking at the price of the Swansea ground vs P ui Chaoimh is frightening. Sometimes l think l'll wake up and realise it's all been one bad dream. It's 1 cock up after another in Cork.

Of course in a couple of Years time we'll have a massive stand and 1 pitch and we're all supposed to kiss their arses and say how marvellous they all are. Of course if you say anything you are pigeon holed as an opponent of the CCB and told you are a whinger. When in reality the thing is a complete and utter balls up and nobody has the balls to stop it happening.

sheff the ref

Wouldnt like to be in the upper tier on a cold day when you are exposed to an icy wind

clerk wrote: »

Excellent article, looking at the price of the Swansea ground vs P ui Chaoimh is frightening. Sometimes l think l'll wake up and realise it's all been one bad dream. It's 1 cock up after another in Cork.

Of course in a couple of Years time we'll have a massive stand and 1 pitch and we're all supposed to kiss their arses and say how marvellous they all are. Of course if you say anything you are pigeon holed as an opponent of the CCB and told you are a whinger. When in reality the thing is a complete and utter balls up and nobody has the balls to stop it happening.

clerk

TheChizler wrote: »

Well the current situation is that people travelling from North and East directions either have to go into the city centre, adding to the traffic, around the new developments in the Albert Quay area and out Centre Park Road, or through the tunnel, around Mahon, contributing to what is already at times chronic conjestions, and through the narrow streets of Ballintemple.

Ok, but you're failing to factor in that the Centre Park will be gridlocked every morning, probably up as far as the fictional bridge.

There are basically 3 roads in Blackrock to the City, the Blackrock road, the Marina/Centre Park Road and from the middle of Blackrock you have Monahan Road, which can only be entered from the other 2 roads mentioned.

Take morning traffic, there is a very awkward turn off at the City side of Monahan road which makes it very difficult to turn for the City if the traffic on the Blackrock is heavy.

All 3 roads converge believe it or believe it not at 1 roundabout, which is bedlam a lot of mornings. This roundabout is basically a survival of the fittest jobie that City veterans of the old Kinsale (magic) roundabout can navigate with ease. Might take the Country boys a while to get the handle of it but it's anything like hurling they'll get there after a while.

But throw I dunno another 500 vehicles into the mix (from the bridge) from North and East Cork circa 8.30 and bingo you've got it, total gridlock. The road network in Blackrock cannot handle any more volume than what it has already to be honest.

Once that roundabout gets blocked it starts quickly backs up all 3 roads. This happens sometimes as things stand today. If you're on the Monahan road when this happens you might as well park and have a kip.

I'm not 100% sure but as far as I know that road network was there in the 19th Century when Blackrock was a fishing village, Mahon was farmland 30 Years ago, you have a booming Mahon Point (incl commercial) and then the traffic with the tunnel but the roads have remained the same !! At some stage something has got to give. Meanwhile our County stadium is built in probably the most inaccessible spot of the lot, beside a river with 1 of the 2 roads that access it being pedestrianised. With no carpark to speak to. You really couldn't make this stuff up.

Still whoever is supplying the wood will be sorted anyway so we should be happy really.

clerk

sheff the ref wrote: »

Wouldnt like to be in the upper tier on a cold day when you are exposed to an icy wind

Are you talking Cork or Swansea.

TheChizler

Would the bridge not relieve existing conjestion instead of purely adding to it as you seem to be suggesting? Part of the conjestion at that roundabout is from people going from Mahon/Blackrock to the north of the river. But this is getting a bit off topic for this thread.

GavRedKing

sheff the ref wrote: »

Ewan McKennas article on it is very interesting. How can stadia with corporate facilities, albeit with a smaller capacity be completed for so much less in the UK?

https://ewanmackenna.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/grounds-for-concern/

The only upshoot is, if this was proposaed in the boom years it would probably be priced at about double what its currently costing.

I did mention costs and modern stadiums in Europe but I wasnt aware of all the English alternatives with decent capacities for relatively similar money.

I would have preferred 4 stands covered and knock the whole structure for a 30k stadium than to build 2 covered stands and leave the existing behind the goals stands in place for what, about 35-40k capacity?

clerk

GavRedKing wrote: »

I would have preferred 4 stands covered and knock the whole structure for a 30k stadium than to build 2 covered stands and leave the existing behind the goals stands in place for what, about 35-40k capacity?

The only time we'll need more than 30k is for an occasional Munster hurling final and there haven't been too many of those in the last 10 Years. None of the other Counties want to play there becaase it's bedlam for the fans trying to get parking and the inevitable gridlock afterwards.

The Cork v Kerry games are never anywhere near full (bi-Annual home game - which could become less regular if Tipp can make the big step up).

and that's basically it.

There is also no need to have a massive gym in the stadium and all the other ****e they're putting in the big stand !! The gym could be put anywhere. By rights they should be a massive gym built on the outskirts of the City and another one in West Cork. How much would 2 state of the Art gyms cost ? l'm guessing €4m.

Centre of excellence out near the greyhound track with 15 pitches and make some West Cork farmer a whole lot richer by buying up a big farm somewhere. How much does that cost ? say €10m and it could be done in 1 Year I reckon.

Make the stadium smaller to build the above and put 4 equal sized stands in it for christ sakes, instead we're getting some Paddy Irishman lob sided 2 sided stadium and 1 pitch of excellence.

It's a bad joke the whole thing.

I know I keep banging on and on but it's like will someone every call a halt to this complete waste of money.

If a 30k new 4 stand stadium means we get a 12-15 field centre of excellence, with all the modcons then it's happy Days.

I want to see Cork winning All-Irelands not watching Cork v Clare in the Munster football from my sponged Corporate box seat in P Ui C.

P.lane78

clerk wrote: »

The only time we'll need more than 30k is for an occasional Munster hurling final and there haven't been too many of those in the last 10 Years. None of the other Counties want to play there becaase it's bedlam for the fans trying to get parking and the inevitable gridlock afterwards.

The Cork v Kerry games are never anywhere near full (bi-Annual home game - which could become less regular if Tipp can make the big step up).

and that's basically it.

There is also no need to have a massive gym in the stadium and all the other ****e they're putting in the big stand !! The gym could be put anywhere. By rights they should be a massive gym built on the outskirts of the City and another one in West Cork. How much would 2 state of the Art gyms cost ? l'm guessing €4m.

Centre of excellence out near the greyhound track with 15 pitches and make some West Cork farmer a whole lot richer by buying up a big farm somewhere. How much does that cost ? say €10m and it could be done in 1 Year I reckon.

Make the stadium smaller to build the above and put 4 equal sized stands in it for christ sakes, instead we're getting some Paddy Irishman lob sided 2 sided stadium and 1 pitch of excellence.

It's a bad joke the whole thing.

I know I keep banging on and on but it's like will someone every call a halt to this complete waste of money.

If a 30k new 4 stand stadium means we get a 12-15 field centre of excellence, with all the modcons then it's happy Days.

I want to see Cork winning All-Irelands not watching Cork v Clare in the Munster football from my sponged Corporate box seat in P Ui C.

I totally agree but the county board gets what the county board wants, end of ....a badly done vanity project!!

BUNK1982

clerk wrote: »

The gym could be put anywhere. By rights they should be a massive gym built on the outskirts of the City and another one in West Cork. How much would 2 state of the Art gyms cost ? l'm guessing €4m.

Centre of excellence out near the greyhound track with 15 pitches and make some West Cork farmer a whole lot richer by buying up a big farm somewhere. How much does that cost ? say €10m and it could be done in 1 Year I reckon.

You could even argue that the facilities are already there for a Centre of Excellence - Nemo in the City, Clon in West Cork and Mallow in North Cork. It's a big county so expecting development squads and the like to meet twice a week down in PuC is bit much.

What really bugs me about this and it is something Ewan McKenna touched on as well, is the complete lack of any architectural merit to it.

You could build some kind of Gaudi looking landmark for half that price and the whole city could use it and appreciate it instead of it being half full for 2x games a year.

case885

Frank Murphy is the sepp Blatter of GAA. I wonder does he really believe he's leaving a legacy to be proud of behind him?

sheff the ref

It is a super article by Ewan McKenna and the €18 million spent on Thurles, and the "Tá sé class" comment by Christy Cooney suggest that we have a long way to go to achieve the financial prudence that some English clubs have achieved. Bear in mind that the following venues have corporate facilities also

St Marys Stadium. Capacity: 32,505. Cost: £32 Million. Year Opened 2001
Cardiff City Stadium. Capacity: 33,280. Cost: £48 Million. Year Opened 2009

Sounds Dreamy

Paul Rouse: Flawed logic to GAA stadium policy

Basically, the burden of the Gaelic Grounds is about to get worse. In this light, the reported spend of €70m on redeveloping Páirc Uí Chaoímh in Cork city is staggering.

That money from the public purse (up to €30m) is to be used to part-fund this enterprise underlines the importance of value for money that is at issue here. How many games will be played each year at Páirc Uí Chaoimh? Will this number of games justify the investment? Will it be self-sufficient?

Of course, if Páirc Uí Chaoimh gets the games it needs to prosper, it means those same games have been denied to Limerick, Thurles and Killarney.

Go to: irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/paulrouse-flawed-logic-to-gaa-stadium-policy-372017.html

Joey Jo-Jo Junior

The €70m figure really is quite staggering considering the extent of the redevelopment.

KCAccidental

Apparently the city end terrace is now being demolished. Who even knows what they are planning now?



from Larry Cummins, echo Photographer.

clerk

KCAccidental wrote: »

Apparently the city end terrace is now being demolished. Who even knows what they are planning now?

Well that's a sight for sore eyes.

sheff the ref

King Power Stadium Leicester (32,262 in Capacity) cost £37 million back around 2003

This has corporate facilities and is fully all seater

Assuming there was no roof and a terrace at both ends behind the goals instead of seating, it would surely be less expensive.

Surely the terracing instead of seats would increase the capacity to 40,000+.

No need of a two tier stand like Pairc Ui Chaoimh are doing which will cost a lot of extra money in terms of structure and foundation

The_Banker

Last I heard the centre of excellence for PUC has been dropped??

I can't believe that the costs for this is going up and up and our local media (examiner/echo) is failing to ask the hard questions...

Pablo Escobar

The_Banker wrote: »

Last I heard the centre of excellence for PUC has been dropped??

I can't believe that the costs for this is going up and up and our local media (examiner/echo) is failing to ask the hard questions...

The local media are GAA sympathisers. They'll turn a blind eye. The project blatantly doesn't make any sense from a cost benefit perspective. Also, what other stadium project have you ever come across where the plans chopped and changed mid-project and decisions to knock certain stands only came as the project was ongoing?

sheff the ref

It would be a wise move to drop the centre of excellence. Better off to develop one similar to Mallow that has multiple pitches. Somewhere out around Curraheen or perhaps near Dunkettle

There is no benefit whatsoever to having a back pitch in Pairc Ui Chaoimh as it would end up being closed in this weather from overuse.

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

The local media are GAA sympathisers. They'll turn a blind eye. The project blatantly doesn't make any sense from a cost benefit perspective. Also, what other stadium project have you ever come across where the plans chopped and changed mid-project and decisions to knock certain stands only came as the project was ongoing?

sheff the ref

Demolition Video

https://www.facebook.com/irishexaminer/videos/vb.175322202485450/1138410829509911

P.lane78

sheff the ref wrote: »

Demolition Video

https://www.facebook.com/irishexaminer/videos/vb.175322202485450/1138410829509911

Well we ever see construction videos i wonder

The_Banker

Page 2 of yesterday's Echo states that the terraces are coming down also due to corrossion of the steel within the concrete..

How they didn't know that after the it was discovered in the uncovered stand isn't conceivable.

Outside of the planning implications of this the cost will absolutely soar now...