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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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    #2072
    Brendan97
    Registered Users Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Brendan97


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    If Kidney is dumb enough to dismiss Reddan because of today (and he could be) and he picks Murray in the very poor form that he's in, I'll be very disappointed.
    Of course he will - but saying that knowing kidney reddan was never in the equation at all - murray is a part of a group of players that kidney loves which includes -Earls, TOL & most older players

    you could make a team of players that kidney is biased against that would give kidney's team a run for its money


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    #2073
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    If Kidney is dumb enough to dismiss Reddan because of today (and he could be) and he picks Murray in the very poor form that he's in, I'll be very disappointed.

    I reckon even if Reddan repeated his Bath performance today, Murray will be in the 9 jersey. Form is not the deciding factor for him for Ireland; never has been.


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    #2074
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    Clegg wrote: »
    Earls went ok against Treviso last week but he was nothing special. Right now he's the 4th best Irish wing and the 3rd best centre. The Castres match showed the problems that he has in his game right now.

    Why should Earls form from last season matter? Right now he's not in form and there is only 1 more competitive fixture before the 6 Nations. If he does well against Northampton then he should be considered but theres players in the Irish squad that have been in good form all season that deserve their place in front of him.

    His form from last season matters as, it unequivocally shows that it doesn't take him "3/4 matches to play himself back into form on the wing". In what I was able to see of him yesterday, he made a bum pass and was limping around the field. Benefit of the doubt - for a player returning from injury into a different position and surrounded by a terribly coached backline - obviously doesn't apply...


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    #2075
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Brendan97 wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    If Kidney is dumb enough to dismiss Reddan because of today (and he could be) and he picks Murray in the very poor form that he's in, I'll be very disappointed.
    Of course he will - but saying that knowing kidney reddan was never in the equation at all - murray is a part of a group of players that kidney loves which includes -Earls, TOL & most older players

    you could make a team of players that kidney is biased against that would give kidney's team a run for its money
    Kidney has started Reddan in the past though, so I'd have some faith in him picking the better player.


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    #2076
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    GerM wrote: »
    We're not all Munster people, just call it as we see it and Ryan was superb yesterday. It's an extremely tight call but he has experience playing alongside POC and within the Irish set up so gets the nod. Tuohy deserves recognition and should get caps in the 6N.

    Much as i'd love to see the 2 lads in the mix for starting or bench in the 6n.....niggly feeling that kidney will still find a place for DOC....hope i'm proved wrong and that players will make the squad on merit and not on history...


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    #2077
    Brendan97
    Registered Users Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Brendan97


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Kidney has started Reddan in the past though, so I'd have some faith in him picking the better player.
    I supppose........but then again as murray played more with munster the more he played with ireland up until the point where kidney saw murray as his first-choice SH mid-way through the WC


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    #2078
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Kidney has started Reddan in the past though, so I'd have some faith in him picking the better player.

    So we're sure Reddan is the better player? Did you honesty feel Reddan played better today than Murray played yesterday? If we were to honestly pick the best 9 from this weekend then Boss would have to be in the mix! Hold fire until after next weekend...


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    #2079
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,922 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    So we're sure Reddan is the better player? Did you honesty feel Reddan played better today than Murray played yesterday? If we were to honestly pick the best 9 from this weekend then Boss would have to be in the mix! Hold fire until after next weekend...

    They were both mostly grim. Tweedledum and Tweedledee to be honest. Reddan at his best is a decnt enough players. I don't think we've seen the best of Murray - if we have the rest must be feckin' awful.


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    #2080
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Kidney has started Reddan in the past though, so I'd have some faith in him picking the better player.

    So we're sure Reddan is the better player? Did you honesty feel Reddan played better today than Murray played yesterday? If we were to honestly pick the best 9 from this weekend then Boss would have to be in the mix! Hold fire until after next weekend...
    No, but Reddan was way worse than usual whereas Murray was slightly better than usual. I think Murray was better than Reddan this week, but I think Murray was much worse last week.

    Also, Reddan was against much better opposition.


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    #2081
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Lads the answer to the number nine problem is obvious! What about an old fan favourite...

    Irish_Sport_10-1_jp_474146t.jpg

    Regards,
    D. Kidney


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    #2082
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Also, Reddan was against much better opposition.

    But Reddan plays on a much better team. Anyhooo, I reckon its all to play for and they'll both see decent time playing time during the 6 nations.


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    #2083
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    No, but Reddan was way worse than usual whereas Murray was slightly better than usual. I think Murray was better than Reddan this week, but I think Murray was much worse last week.

    Also, Reddan was against much better opposition.

    Murray got MOTM in his last HEC game against Scarlets. Not sure why people think he's in poor form, he's going well imo.


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    #2084
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Murray got MOTM in his last HEC game against Scarlets. Not sure why people think he's in poor form, he's going well imo.

    He'll get his try eventually too.


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    #2085
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Also, Reddan was against much better opposition.

    But Reddan plays on a much better team. Anyhooo, I reckon its all to play for and they'll both see decent time playing time during the 6 nations.
    Better team thanks to their brilliant 9 :p


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    #2086
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Better team thanks to their brilliant 9 :p

    Well played Sir!
    :D


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    #2087
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,946 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    His form from last season matters as, it unequivocally shows that it doesn't take him "3/4 matches to play himself back into form on the wing". In what I was able to see of him yesterday, he made a bum pass and was limping around the field. Benefit of the doubt - for a player returning from injury into a different position and surrounded by a terribly coached backline - obviously doesn't apply...
    It took him 3 games to actually get into form in the World Cup. He did nothing of note until the Russia game. He was also extremely poor on the wing and in centre for Ireland during the warm-up games. Our form back Andrew Trimble was ignored and sat on his arse for most of the WC. He played decent enough in our next few matches but overall he only had a passable World Cup by his standards.

    I don't think Earls is a bad player. He's a good one who is in poor form. He's like Fitzgerald was last season, coming back from injury and playing out of position. Fitz played for Ireland at full-back because he was seen as the best option available. But Earls is in a different position entirely. Right now there are a number of players in cenrtre and on the wing who are playing much better than him. If the 6 Nations squad was picked on current form then Earls would be lucky to make the 22. If he were in form then he'd probably start for Ireland but we don't have that luxury.


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    #2088
    Sindri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Sindri


    Is it just me or does anyone else think Murray is fairly average.


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    #2089
    chancer12
    Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭chancer12


    Sindri, most non-Munster supporters would agree with you! IMO he's as over-rated as Reddan is under-rated


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    #2090
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Murray got MOTM in his last HEC game against Scarlets. Not sure why people think he's in poor form, he's going well imo.

    What did you think of Chris Henry this weekend?


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    #2091
    lologram
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭lologram


    Sindri wrote: »
    Is it just me or does anyone else think Murray is fairly average.
    chancer12 wrote: »
    Sindri, most non-Munster supporters would agree with you! IMO he's as over-rated as Reddan is under-rated

    Murray is over-rated indeed, but I think Reddan is rated about fairly. My impression is that people think of him as close to what he is; a pretty good player most of the time but someone who is prone to some terrible decisions and terrible days also.


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    #2092
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    It was not a vintage week for Irish SHs. Reddan seemed caught up in the general Leinster malaise and as for Murray, when TOL comes on and speeds things up it tells you everything.


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    #2093
    clsmooth
    Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Sindri wrote: »
    Is it just me or does anyone else think Murray is fairly average.

    I agree. Not really impressed by him. Not fast enough to get the ball away. I'd prefer Redden although he blows hot and cold. Murray should get on the substitute bench though. I think he can improve as he's young but think he's fairly average at all parts of his game. Redden (when in form) controls the tempo much better IMO


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    #2094
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Sindri wrote: »
    Is it just me or does anyone else think Murray is fairly average.

    I think Murray is the sort of scrum-half who suits the sort of game that Munster are playing at the moment, and is also the sort of scrum-half who Kidney favours, i.e. athletic, strong carrier into contact etc etc. Munster aren't interested in playing a wide, expansive game (or lack the players to do so atm), and they're doing well by keeping it tight through the forwards, so this suits Murray.

    However, when it comes to making the step up to internationals, we have to take it up a notch, look to move the ball more quickly and get more width on it and at this stage, Murray isn't really the man for that, but he is very young and has lots of time to develop.

    Reddan is the best all-round SH we have, but he is maddeningly inconsistent. No-one can put the sort of pace on the game that he can, but too often you're left with your mouth open asking, "what the f**k was he thinking?"

    On recent form, we'd be picking Marshall but it ain't going to happen. I think the best option may actually be Boss, but you have to assume Murray will get the nod for Ireland.


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    #2095
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    totallegend wrote: »
    ]
    On recent form, we'd be picking Marshall but it ain't going to happen. I think the best option may actually be Boss, but you have to assume Murray will get the nod for Ireland.

    Unless Marshall is starting & getting first team Heineken Cup experience for Ulster, he won't be included in the Irish squad, let alone starting.


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    #2096
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    totallegend wrote: »
    I think Murray is the sort of scrum-half who suits the sort of game that Munster are playing at the moment, and is also the sort of scrum-half who Kidney favours, i.e. athletic, strong carrier into contact etc etc. Munster aren't interested in playing a wide, expansive game (or lack the players to do so atm), and they're doing well by keeping it tight through the forwards, so this suits Murray.

    However, when it comes to making the step up to internationals, we have to take it up a notch, look to move the ball more quickly and get more width on it and at this stage, Murray isn't really the man for that, but he is very young and has lots of time to develop.

    Reddan is the best all-round SH we have, but he is maddeningly inconsistent. No-one can put the sort of pace on the game that he can, but too often you're left with your mouth open asking, "what the f**k was he thinking?"

    On recent form, we'd be picking Marshall but it ain't going to happen. I think the best option may actually be Boss, but you have to assume Murray will get the nod for Ireland.

    If you want to play a SH to put pace on the game, you play Stringer.


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    #2097
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Unless Marshall is starting & getting first team Heineken Cup experience for Ulster, he won't be included in the Irish squad, let alone starting.

    Absolutely.

    but in fairness to him;
    a) he's played in all their HC games and started two
    b) if any of the other Irish scrum-halves were competing with Pienaar, they'd be on the bench too.

    I'd like to see Marshall at least play for the Wolfhounds but the senior squad won't happen for him.


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    #2098
    Sindri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Sindri


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Unless Marshall is starting & getting first team Heineken Cup experience for Ulster, he won't be included in the Irish squad, let alone starting.

    Shame. Marshall looks like a bit of a cute hoor.


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    #2099
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    danthefan wrote: »
    What did you think of Chris Henry this weekend?

    Didn't watch the game, will he be challenging SOB for 7?


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    #2100
    [Jackass]
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    If you want to play a SH to put pace on the game, you play Stringer.

    Stringer had an absolute nightmare cameo for Saracencs when he came on. Was blocked down with a simple box kick, almost cost them the game, and looked completely out of his depth. Nothing left to offer at Heineken Cup level. Was brought in as emergency cover as they only had an academy guy left, now he's benching behind the academy guy...


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    #2101
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Murray gave Munster a big boost at the end of last season when he burst on the scene. He can pass, is consistent, is a running threat and has a good rugby brain. Not overrated at all. Its not like what happened a few years ago when TOL burst on the scene. Murray has talent.

    His performances this season have not been as good mainly because of the time he takes to get the ball from a ruck. The Munster back play has been terrible this season and the coaches don't have much of a clue whats going on. Its not a great enviornment for young players to be involved in. Mafi has been bad, Barnes has also lost confidence and was playing better in the summer and also looks to have lost a bit of confidence since then.


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