Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

I can't imagine good oul Uncle Kidders doing anything but starting Earls at 13.

I would be more than happy to be wrong.

wixfjord

Tox56 wrote: »

You really think even Kidney will be still be even considering Earls at 13, much less starting him? He must know by now that it just isn't happening, especially with how well EOM (or even McFadden) has played at 13.

I don't see why EOM won't get to play at least some part. I personally would start him, although I admit that would be unlikely, I think it is far from impossible.

Earls will almost certainly start at 13. Will have to be another O Leary esque performance to move him.

wixfjord

CatFromHue wrote: »

O' Malley has played great at 13, just not so much this season.

Heh? McFadden I presume you mean?

Tox56

danthefan wrote: »

Up to the RWC Earls was getting starts in the centre for Ireland with Kidney stating straight out he was next in line behind BOD. He's barely played since due to injury, so I don't see what's changed.

Well since then O'Malley has been starting regularly for Leinster, in big games too, due to BOD's injury, and has put in some very good performances, certainly better than Earls at 13.

CatFromHue

wixfjord wrote: »

Heh? McFadden I presume you mean?

No O'Malley.

He hasn't hit the heights he did last season and was pretty poor defensively against Bath. Bath being the big home game were alot of people would have been watching him to see how he handled himself.

Tox56

Tox56 wrote: »

Well since then O'Malley has been starting regularly for Leinster, in big games too, due to BOD's injury, and has put in some very good performances, certainly better than Earls at 13.

the thing is, we all know this. Darren Cave at Ulster is almost certainly a better 13 than Earls too, but there's a blindspot in a certain part of Irish rugby's fans and unfortunately coaches too that seem to believe that a tonne of pace and an eye for the tryline can cover up all other weaknesses at 13, whereas we all know that they're wingers qualities, and defensive weakness at 11 is a lot less of a hinderance than in the middle of the field.

wixfjord

CatFromHue wrote: »

No O'Malley.

He hasn't hit the heights he did last season and was pretty poor defensively against Bath. Bath being the big home game were alot of people would have been watching him to see how he handled himself.

Jesus what a typical Boards.ie overreaction.
I don't even know where to begin with that.

Takeabath

Earls defense has been awful at 13 since he's come back and he hasn't offered much. Omalley got slated for missing a tackle on a back row sized player when trying to prevent an offload and yet there's mo mention of how many tackles earls fell off yesterday. The pecking order should be omalley,McFadden,earls but unfortunately in kidneys Ireland it's the other way around. This is a man who insisted on playing Buckley, horan, o'leary, Hayes until forced to change them through injury or massive drop of form. Healy, Ross and o'brien only got meaningful starts after injury. The only player parachuted into the team was surprise,surprise, Murray who is tol.2

irishbucsfan

I think you're 100% spot on Dan.

Team against Wales will be: Healy, Best, Ross, POC, Ryan, OBrien, Ferris, Heaslip, Murray, ROG, Fitz, Darcy, Earls, Bowe, Kearney

Based on this season so far Id have:

Healy, Best, Ross, Tuohy, POC, Ferris, OBrien, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Darcy, OMalley, Bowe, Kearney

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think you're 100% spot on Dan.

Team against Wales will be: Healy, Best, Ross, POC, Ryan, OBrien, Ferris, Heaslip, Murray, ROG, Fitz, Darcy, Earls, Bowe, Kearney

Based on this season so far Id have:

Healy, Best, Ross, Tuohy, POC, Ferris, OBrien, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton, Fitzgerald, Darcy, OMalley, Bowe, Kearney

I'd definitely agree with the "season so far" team, except maybe D'Arcy out for McFadden. I know experience etc., but there is plenty of experience in that team, and McFadden has looked a lot more incisive than D'Arcy.

Hugely unlikely any of those selections will come through though.

thomond2006

Jesus it would be incredible, even for Kidney, if he didn't pick Sexton.

WeeBushy

I reckon we'll see something very close to Dan's team for the big games. I'd like to see a bit of change for the games against Scotland and Italy. 2 or 3 from the likes of Touhy, Toner, Cronin, POM, EOM, Cave, Gilroy, Madigan/Keatley on the bench. Not too many changes, but a bit of a look at where the problem areas are going to be in a couple of years and rewarding form.

danthefan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Jesus it would be incredible, even for Kidney, if he didn't pick Sexton.

If he doesn't it will be mismanagement of an epic proportion. He now needs to 100% back Sexton. Sexton can't be looking over his shoulder knowing he'll be hauled off after 50 mins for making a mistake or trying something that doesn't pay off.

Benny Cake

Takeabath wrote: »

Murray who is tol.2

LOL, you were doing so well until here^^^

CatFromHue

wixfjord wrote: »

Jesus what a typical Boards.ie overreaction.
I don't even know where to begin with that.

Why not?

If you take it HEC game are of a higher level than Pro12 (Munster games excluded) I tend to rate these games higher. If you want to play for Ireland you should, in theory anyway, be performing in these games. He did well against Glasgow, only got a few mins against Munster, and was all right but poor defensively against Bath.

His tackle technique was all over the place against Bath. The try he was mainly faulted for wasn't a freak missed tackle, it'd been coming all day.

wixfjord

CatFromHue wrote: »

Why not?

If you take it HEC game are of a higher level than Pro12 (Munster games excluded) I tend to rate these games higher. If you want to play for Ireland you should, in theory anyway, be performing in these games. He did well against Glasgow, only got a few mins against Munster, and was all right but poor defensively against Bath.

His tackle technique was all over the place against Bath. The try he was mainly faulted for wasn't a freak missed tackle, it'd been coming all day.

Ah here, leave it so.
One missed tackle at the end of a mullering.
He's been immense this year at 13, far better than McFadden and Earls.
Did you see how the Leinster attack changed from the away Bath game to the home one, or how it changed at the end of the game on Mon?


You say he's played great at 13, just not so much this season, and you also say that Rabo doesn't count, so I presume you're basing your hypothesis on that one game he played 13 against Clermont is it? Go on, what heights did he hit last year then?

Tox56

I think it's fair to say he was poor defensively against Bath, although it was down to poor tackling technique not poor positioning, due to being a natural 13, which is a relief as his tackling technique can be improved rather more easily.

However, both in that game, and in all the other games this season, he has looked menacing whenever he gets the ball. Along with his good distribution he has those quick feet and good hands. In his cameo against Ulster (albeit against poor opposition), he looked very dangerous, far more dangerous than McFadden/D'Arcy, and wasn't far away from a try.

He isn't a finished article, and he is no BOD, but I'd take him over all our other 13's.

padser

CatFromHue wrote: »

wixfjord wrote: »

Jesus what a typical Boards.ie overreaction.
I don't even know where to begin with that.

Why not?

If you take it HEC game are of a higher level than Pro12 (Munster games excluded) I tend to rate these games higher. If you want to play for Ireland you should, in theory anyway, be performing in these games. He did well against Glasgow, only got a few mins against Munster, and was all right but poor defensively against Bath.

His tackle technique was all over the place against Bath. The try he was mainly faulted for wasn't a freak missed tackle, it'd been coming all day.

I understand all the resistance to playing EoM. He has been very solid while not spectacular this season for Leinster. He hasn't managed to nail down the 13 jearsey at Leinster yet. He has certainly shown glimpses of international ability at 13 though as well.

BUT

I simply can't understand the posters saying we can't play him because of his defence and then suggesting Earls instead. Even red tinted glasses can't make that much difference surely?

Also I can't understand people equating people calling for EoM to equivalent of people calling for Murray before the RWC. Redden and Boss were test experienced scumhalves, in form and having just won a HC (reddens second one). The options at 13 for Ireland are untried wingers (Bowe), tried and failed wingers (Earls) and untried centres (loads) - it's hardly a similar situation

CatFromHue

wixfjord wrote: »

Ah here, leave it so.
One missed tackle at the end of a mullering.
He's been immense this year at 13, far better than McFadden and Earls.
Did you see how the Leinster attack changed from the away Bath game to the home one, or how it changed at the end of the game on Mon?


You say he's played great at 13, just not so much this season, and you also say that Rabo doesn't count, so I presume you're basing your hypothesis on that one game he played 13 against Clermont is it? Go on, what heights did he hit last year then?

You're hilarious! Why not call me a one eyed Munster fan cause I said a Leinster player isn't playing great?

It wasn't the one missed tackle he was poor all day. For what ever reason instead of engaging his shoulder and going low in the tackle he was jumping at the guys shoulders face on and getting pushed down. Not once, it was systematic. While the last Bath try wasn't his fault he shouldn't have got sucked in, all in a bad day defensively.

Never said anything about Earls or McFadden so don't know why you're bringing them up. Since you have though there is the argument that why is Schmidt playing McFadden ahead of O Malley then?

We're talking here about starting for Ireland though, you do understand that don't you? It's the next level up and that's why this season the HEC games (and Munster) are far more important that the 6 games at the start of the season in the Pro12!

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

You're hilarious! Why not call me a one eyed Munster fan cause I said a Leinster player isn't playing great?

It wasn't the one missed tackle he was poor all day. For what ever reason instead of engaging his shoulder and going low in the tackle he was jumping at the guys shoulders face on and getting pushed down. Not once, it was systematic. While the last Bath try wasn't his fault he shouldn't have got sucked in, all in a bad day defensively.

Never said anything about Earls or McFadden so don't know why you're bringing them up. Since you have though there is the argument that why is Schmidt playing McFadden ahead of O Malley then?

We're talking here about starting for Ireland though, you do understand that don't you? It's the next level up and that's why this season the HEC games (and Munster) are far more important that the 6 games at the start of the season in the Pro12!

Who would you play at 13 for Ireland if not EOM?

CatFromHue

Tox56 wrote: »

Who would you play at 13 for Ireland if not EOM?

To be honest I'd wait until the end of the HEC pool stages before picking a 13. There is still a lot of rugby to be played.

tolosenc

As for danthefan's selection, I largely agree. I wouldn't consider Best a dead cert though.

Props and backrow pick themselves, as does POC at 5. I think DOC's Ireland race is run, but I reckon Deccie will still pick him. Ryan, Toner, Tuohy should all be in contention.

Reddan, Boss, O'Leary and Murray all in contention for the 9 jersey. Liked what I saw of Marshall on Monday, but not enough to merit a selection.

Kearney is a cert for 15. I'd like to see D'arcy at 13, don't know how anyone else feels about that. Bowe has been underwhelming in the few games I've seen him play this year. I don't know how accurate that analysis is. Fitzgerald is in ridiculous form and really has to be selected. Thus, Bowe, Trimble and Earls competing for the 14 shirt. At 12, I really don't know. McFadden, or D'arcy with EOM or Cave at 13?

As for outhalf:

thomond2006 wrote: »

Jesus it would be incredible, even for Kidney, if he didn't pick Sexton.

But would you be taken aback if you saw ROG at 10 on the team sheet?

wixfjord

CatFromHue wrote: »

You're hilarious! Why not call me a one eyed Munster fan cause I said a Leinster player isn't playing great?

It wasn't the one missed tackle he was poor all day. For what ever reason instead of engaging his shoulder and going low in the tackle he was jumping at the guys shoulders face on and getting pushed down. Not once, it was systematic. While the last Bath try wasn't his fault he shouldn't have got sucked in, all in a bad day defensively.

Never said anything about Earls or McFadden so don't know why you're bringing them up. Since you have though there is the argument that why is Schmidt playing McFadden ahead of O Malley then?

We're talking here about starting for Ireland though, you do understand that don't you? It's the next level up and that's why this season the HEC games (and Munster) are far more important that the 6 games at the start of the season in the Pro12!

Back up the truck there as gorgeous George would say.
I've no idea if you've a Munster fan or not, so don't throw that old chestnut up.

You're quotes were that you thought O Malley was far better last year than he was this year.
You also said that you don't rate Rabo (which is ludocris btw!).
So what were O Malley's great performances last year, and how do they differ so much to this year?


You're discussing one game and one tackle, and using it as a way to sum up O Malley's season.

That horse ****e about McFadden ahead of O Malley is the same as someone saying "Cian Healy can't start for Ireland because HVDM is ahead of him"!

Tox56

tolosenc wrote: »

As for danthefan's selection, I largely agree. I wouldn't consider Best a dead cert though.

Props and backrow pick themselves, as does POC at 5. I think DOC's Ireland race is run, but I reckon Deccie will still pick him. Ryan, Toner, Tuohy should all be in contention.

Reddan, Boss, O'Leary and Murray all in contention for the 9 jersey. Liked what I saw of Marshall on Monday, but not enough to merit a selection.

Kearney is a cert for 15. I'd like to see D'arcy at 13, don't know how anyone else feels about that. Bowe has been underwhelming in the few games I've seen him play this year. I don't know how accurate that analysis is. Fitzgerald is in ridiculous form and really has to be selected. Thus, Bowe, Trimble and Earls competing for the 14 shirt. At 12, I really don't know. McFadden, or D'arcy with EOM or Cave at 13?

As for outhalf:



But would you be taken aback if you saw ROG at 10 on the team sheet?

Definitely not (imo). D'Arcy doesn't have the creativity of a 13, and 12 is definitely his best position, playing him out of it nullifies him. Having said that though, I personally think he shouldn't be assured of even playing 12. McFadden just looks like a younger, faster D'Arcy, and I would play him instead.

I would also probably play EOM at 13, but as people have said, there is still a lot of rugby (and HEC Rugby) to play before the decision needs to be made.

CatFromHue

wixfjord wrote: »

Back up the truck there as gorgeous George would say.
I've no idea if you've a Munster fan or not, so don't throw that old chestnut up.

You're quotes were that you thought O Malley was far better last year than he was this year.
You also said that you don't rate Rabo (which is ludocris btw!).
So what were O Malley's great performances last year, and how do they differ so much to this year?


You're discussing one game and one tackle, and using it as a way to sum up O Malley's season.

That horse ****e about McFadden ahead of O Malley is the same as someone saying "Cian Healy can't start for Ireland because HVDM is ahead of him"!

The difference between this year and last is that last season we were looking at a new young player. This season we're talking about a possible Ireland starting player. Two different scales of measurement are applied here.

I don't think I have highlighted the one tackle in the Bath game, I said he was poor defensively all game. The reason I'm bringing up the Bath game was it was a big HEC home game. 45-50,000 people in the Aviva against an English team we don't play that often were EOM was up against an England International Squad player. It was much bigger than the home Glasgow game. It was in effect almost a trial game for EOM for Ireland.

Never said I don't rate the Rabo. I said I rate the HEC higher, especially when looking at guys who I want to start for Ireland.

Healy and VDM are not in direct competition for the Ireland jersey. Whereas it could be argued, rightly or wrongly, that McFadden and EOM are.

tolosenc

Tox56 wrote: »

Definitely not (imo). D'Arcy doesn't have the creativity of a 13, and 12 is definitely his best position, playing him out of it nullifies him.

If BOD never existed, D'arcy would have been Ireland's starting 13 for the last 10 years odd. He is an archetypal 13.

padser

tolosenc wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

Definitely not (imo). D'Arcy doesn't have the creativity of a 13, and 12 is definitely his best position, playing him out of it nullifies him.

If BOD never existed, D'arcy would have been Ireland's starting 13 for the last 10 years odd. He is an archetypal 13.

Agreed.

But surely this 6n needs to be used for succession planning for the Irish 13 shirt?

Darcy def is not the option to replace BOD medium term so he shouldn't be used there during the 6n.

tolosenc

Well, if it is to be O'Malley, and people reckon he's not quite ready, then maybe having Darce as a stop gap for a couple of months isn't the worst thing.

That said, this is all moot. The Wise and Wonderful Deccie will pick Earls, and then won't have a clue why the backline isn't working. Then drop Sexton for ROG. Then put in O'Leary....

ktulu123

tolosenc wrote: »

That said, this is all moot. The Wise and Wonderful Deccie will pick Earls, and then won't have a clue why the backline isn't working. Then drop Sexton for ROG. Then put in O'Leary....

Please no.....

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

Who would you play at 13 for Ireland if not EOM?

To be honest I'd wait until the end of the HEC pool stages before picking a 13. There is still a lot of rugby to be played.

Which begs the question, can you see the top of Devin toners head from the fence you're sitting on?

Omalleys defense is excellent. It's certainly not a reason not to select him. As for the going low and engaging with your shoulder huff, have a look at Dom Ryans tackle of the year last season!