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Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful

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    #152
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Sofa King Great wrote: »
    What did you expect the Solicitor for the soldiers to say exactly?
    Something along those lines.. I thought it was interesting and the thread would benefit from it, just like it did from posting that TUV leaders comments. That ok?


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    #153
    sink
    Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    "My primary thoughts today are with the thousands of innocent victims of the IRA who have never had justice, nor benefitted from any inquiry into why their loved ones died.
    "Thus today's jamboree over the Saville report throws into very sharp relief the unacceptable and perverse hierarchy of victims which the preferential treatment of 'Bloody Sunday' has created."
    - Jim Allister

    It seems he can't tell the difference between soldiers employed by a supposed democratic and accountable government charged with protecting it's citizens and a terrorist organisation whose only mandate is self appointed and who is accountable to no one. When the latter murders it is undoubtedly a travesty, when the former murders it undermines the very bedrock of a free and fair society. While both acts are equally reprehensible the consequences for the former are far deeper and destructive and so it should be dealt with much greater care.


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    #154
    Sofa King Great
    Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Sofa King Great


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Something along those lines.. I thought it was interesting and the thread would benefit from it, just like it did from posting that TUV leaders comments. That ok?

    Thats fine by me. As you were...


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    #155
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    sink wrote: »
    "My primary thoughts today are with the thousands of innocent victims of the IRA who have never had justice, nor benefitted from any inquiry into why their loved ones died.
    "Thus today's jamboree over the Saville report throws into very sharp relief the unacceptable and perverse hierarchy of victims which the preferential treatment of 'Bloody Sunday' has created."
    - Jim Allister

    It seems he can't tell the difference between soldiers employed by a supposed democratic and accountable government charged with protecting it's citizens and a terrorist organisation whose only mandate is self appointed and who is accountable to no one. When the latter murders it is undoubtedly a travesty, when the former murders it undermines the very bedrock of a free and fair society. While both acts are equally reprehensible the consequences for the former are far deeper and destructive and so it should be dealt with much greater care.

    aside from the fact that there were inquiries for victims of the IRA, they were called criminal trials


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    #156
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    prinz wrote: »
    Now some people can get back to name calling, finger pointing and spitting. Awesome. We've come a long way.

    Another sterling contribution.


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    #157
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Cowens comments, sum up how I feel actually! haha

    Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen said the Saville Inquiry was necessary because the "whitewash of Widgery" had "deeply compounded" the grief of the victims' families. The Taoiseach said the ultimate injustice was the "unjustified and unjustifiable killing of innocent civilians by those who claimed to be keeping the peace". "It was an act of murder that cried out for justice and truth - instead, justice and truth were then denied and cast aside," he added. Mr Cowen said a "shameful attempt to distort history" has now been set aside and the "truth has been set free."


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    #158
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    Simple fact is that gunfire came out of the bogside, the British army was perfectly within their right to return fire. The collateral damage that was caused as a result of them returning fire was not and should not be classified as murder.

    If anybody was to blame for the deaths of the innocent it should be those IRA men that fired at the soldiers. I think the report was a complete waist of time and resources.


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    #159
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    sensibleken wrote: »
    aside from the fact that there were inquiries for victims of the IRA, they were called criminal trials

    Yeah, I'm still not sure what kind of inquiry they want tbh.


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    #160
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    dclane wrote: »
    Simple fact is that gunfire came out of the bogside, the British army was perfectly within their right to return fire. The collateral damage that was caused as a result of them returning fire was not and should not be classified as murder.

    If anybody was to blame for the deaths of the innocent it should be those IRA men that fired at the soldiers. I think the report was a complete waist of time and resources.

    Go **** yourself, how's that? Has to be said tbh. They shot unarmed civilians, many of them in the back. Absolutely nothing to do with the IRA. The soldiers didn't return fire, they shot at people running away and people aiding others who had been injured. One of the victims was shot close-up in the back then shot as he lay injured on the ground, inexcusable.


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    #161
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    dclane wrote: »
    Simple fact is that gunfire came out of the bogside, the British army was perfectly within their right to return fire. The collateral damage that was caused as a result of them returning fire was not and should not be classified as murder.

    If anybody was to blame for the deaths of the innocent it should be those IRA men that fired at the soldiers. I think the report was a complete waist of time and resources.

    So you think the report was a waste of time because you disagree with its findings? Really? :confused:


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    #162
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    dclane wrote: »
    Simple (....) resources.

    The soldiers fired first.

    If you've alternative information, why did you not bring it to the attention of the tribunal?


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    #163
    youcrazyjesus!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭youcrazyjesus!


    Really disappointed with the reactions from Unionists and some on here. It's a really simple issue. Soldiers massacred innocent civilians who were protesting genuine inequality in society. Anybody muddying the waters, throwing in the PIRA and IRA into statements on today are doing the same things that caused there to be a need for an inquiry in the first place. It's a disgrace. Unionists never, ever learn. They would keel over and die if they were to be any way gracious. It has nothing to do with the IRA.


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    #164
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    danbohan wrote: »
    i think you are a complete waste of time and your parents resources , does it matter , no , does your opinion matter, no , the truth has come out today . now take your twisted logic to some quiet dark place and try deal with your hatred of all things Irish there

    I am as Irish as they come my friend, collateral damage happens during a war and can you honestly say that the soldiers were wrong to return fire when fired upon?

    The innocent killings were caused the actions of the IRA and it is the IRA who should apologise to the families of the dead. The English followed orders and did things by the book. The report means nothing and nothing should come from it.


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    #165
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    dclane wrote: »
    Simple fact is that gunfire came out of the bogside, the British army was perfectly within their right to return fire.

    The report found that it was the British army who initiated fire.
    dclane wrote: »
    The collateral damage that was caused as a result of them returning fire was not and should not be classified as murder.

    Collateral damage? That's an interesting way of describing shooting an innocent man in the back of the head, who was waving a white flag trying to assist a dieing man.
    dclane wrote: »
    If anybody was to blame for the deaths of the innocent it should be those IRA men that fired at the soldiers.

    I think you'll find that the report found that the British soldiers were 100% to blame. David Cameron agrees with this point of view.
    dclane wrote: »
    I think the report was a complete waist of time and resources.

    Waist of time?

    It wouldn't have been as costly if the original report had of reported the truth.


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    #166
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    dclane wrote: »
    I am as Irish as they come my friend, collateral damage happens during a war and can you honestly say that the soldiers were wrong to return fire when fired upon?

    The innocent killings were caused the actions of the IRA and it is the IRA who should apologise to the families of the dead. The English followed orders and did things by the book. The report means nothing and nothing should come from it.

    read the report , they were not fired on , it was premeditated cold bloodied murder something the British army very good at .


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    #167
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    dclane wrote: »
    I am as Irish as they come my friend, collateral damage happens during a war and can you honestly say that the soldiers were wrong to return fire when fired upon?

    The innocent killings were caused the actions of the IRA and it is the IRA who should apologise to the families of the dead. The English followed orders and did things by the book. The report means nothing and nothing should come from it.

    Is that the "How to shoot unarmed teenagers book"?


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    #168
    rightwingdub
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    Hopefully there will be prosecutions of British soldiers who murdered unarmed civilians, what did Cameron have to say about the Bloody Sunday massacre.


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    #169
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    Really disappointed with the reactions from Unionists and some on here. It's a really simple issue. Soldiers massacred innocent civilians who were protesting genuine inequality in society. Anybody muddying the waters, throwing in the PIRA and IRA into statements on today are doing the same things that caused there to be a need for an inquiry in the first place. It's a disgrace. Unionists never, ever learn. They would keel over and die if they were to be any way gracious. It has nothing to do with the IRA.

    It has everything to do with the IRA, they were there shooting at the British soldiers. They massacred people in Northern Ireland for years without provocation, innocent people I might add! I'm not a unionist, I'm a normal Irish Catholic joe soap entitled to my say like everybody else.

    It seems to me to be quite the contrary this thread has some very strong republican views which seem to be using the publishing of the report as a grounds to put across more and more republican rhetoric!


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    #170
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    dclane wrote: »
    It has everything to do with the IRA, they were there shooting at the British soldiers. They massacred people in Northern Ireland for years without provocation, innocent people I might add! I'm not a unionist, I'm a normal Irish Catholic joe soap entitled to my say like everybody else.

    It seems to me to be quite the contrary this thread has some very strong republican views which seem to be using the publishing of the report as a grounds to put across more and more republican rhetoric!

    I suppose the one victim who was proved to be on his stomach when he was shot in the anus was just collateral damage too? If that isn't murder what is?

    If that was your brother/son would you still be spewing the same shít you are now?


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    #171
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    rightwingdub wrote: »
    Hopefully there will be prosecutions of British soldiers who murdered unarmed civilians, what did Cameron have to say about the Bloody Sunday massacre.

    He was actually shockingly apologetic.


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    #172
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    dclane wrote: »
    It has everything to do with the IRA

    No, it didn't.


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    #173
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    dlofnep wrote: »
    No, it didn't.

    It sure did after though!


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    #174
    gsxr1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭gsxr1


    fontanalis wrote: »
    It sure did after though!

    Your right there. One of there biggest recruitment days. Along with the hunger strikes.


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    #175
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    dclane wrote: »
    It has everything to do with the IRA, they were there shooting at the British soldiers. They massacred people in Northern Ireland for years without provocation, innocent people I might add! I'm not a unionist, I'm a normal Irish Catholic joe soap entitled to my say like everybody else.

    It seems to me to be quite the contrary this thread has some very strong republican views which seem to be using the publishing of the report as a grounds to put across more and more republican rhetoric!


    You need to have a look into the past ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayXcfps1MUA


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    #176
    rightwingdub
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    dlofnep wrote: »
    He was actually shockingly apologetic.

    What will all the hardline tory backbenchers think:D

    Maybe the Lib Dems are talking some sense into him as regards the North.


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    #177
    youcrazyjesus!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭youcrazyjesus!


    dclane wrote: »
    It has everything to do with the IRA, they were there shooting at the British soldiers. They massacred people in Northern Ireland for years without provocation, innocent people I might add! I'm not a unionist, I'm a normal Irish Catholic joe soap entitled to my say like everybody else.

    It seems to me to be quite the contrary this thread has some very strong republican views which seem to be using the publishing of the report as a grounds to put across more and more republican rhetoric!

    Read the report. FFS.


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    #178
    rightwingdub
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    If there are prosecutions how long will these murderers have to serve, would they not be released after a few months under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement?


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    #179
    Mayo Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    dclane wrote: »
    It has everything to do with the IRA, they were there shooting at the British soldiers. They massacred people in Northern Ireland for years without provocation, innocent people I might add! I'm not a unionist, I'm a normal Irish Catholic joe soap entitled to my say like everybody else.

    It seems to me to be quite the contrary this thread has some very strong republican views which seem to be using the publishing of the report as a grounds to put across more and more republican rhetoric!

    Erm, Widgery or Saville then, which one do you prefer?

    Good to see the victims of this dark day have their names cleared completely as well as being declared unlawfully killed. Good statement too from British PM Cameron.


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    #180
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    celticbest wrote: »
    Worse atrocities :confused:

    These soldiers killed unarmed civilians in the name of queen & country, what's worse then the people whom have been charged with keeping law and order being the one who actually commit an atrocity :confused:

    Soldiers above everyone else through training and discipline should have controlled themselves in a tense situation and not carried out a murder spree....(Unless they were order to).

    I'm just thinking of the likes of William Moore who died recently, a man who abducted innocent people, then slashed them up with butcher knives before killing them. The leader of his gang once pulled a guys teeth out one by one with a pliers before killing him.

    Others from his gang are still alive and were released under the terms of the GFA.

    As I said its not something I'm sure about either way.

    Congratulations for the families and well done to Lord Saville and the other judges. Excellent statement from Brian Cowen also.


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    #181
    youcrazyjesus!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭youcrazyjesus!


    Didn't like Miriam O'Callaghan's promo for Prime Time tonight. "Will we learn the full truth about Bloody Sunday?". Implying we might not. That's really low. She should think before doing the promo.


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