Saorview Content Speculation

galtee boy

The Cush wrote: »

All the official launch means is the DTT service is fully operational and not subject to interruption as the present trial service is. Most transmitters go to full power if reports are to be believed.

New channels or services aren't a prerequisite for Saorview's full public launch.

But that's the whole point, it won't be fully operational if you can't set it to record using series link from it's own epg ! Whatever about extra channels, God Almighty, they have had since last October and further back, to get the Epg and Series link up and running in time for the "Official" launch.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

New channels or services aren't a prerequisite for Saorview's full public launch.

Haha I have been saying that for about 5 years now!

Then what the hell is launching on Wednesday ? It's like a motor company launching a new car, but telling you the wheels and lights won't be available for another couple of months ! Can't we do anything right in this country ?
So all that's happening on Wednesday, is the "official trial" is turning into an "official launch", but with some of the most important components still missing ? It could only happen in Ireland.

How many times have I mentioned on this thread Spring 2011.

The Cush then quote the Dail to me about trials, even though the SI stated nothing about "trails".

Saorview is official available from 11/5/11 I assume, the trial finishes Wednesday. They won't be launching that, perhaps a press release or something. I don't think they will even have a launch of any kind TBH.

But that's the whole point, it won't be fully operational if you can't set it to record using series link from it's own epg !

It is news to me that they are launching Saorview +, series link won't happen straight away on the platform. I can't say I ever expected it would??????

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

The Cush then quote the Dail to me about trials, even though the SI stated nothing about "trails".

As you only found out recently that Saorview is a public trial service I assume you have contacted the Dept of Communications in relation to their error in approving the Oct trial launch with regard to their own SI.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

As you only found out recently that Saorview is a public trial service I assume you have contacted the Dept of Communications in relation to their error in approving the Oct trial launch with regard to their own SI.

What were they trail exactly. Has the public trail worked out? Will their be a report to go with this trial?

Sadly I did .

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

What were they trail exactly.

In the Dept's own words

The launch of the RTÉ service on an initial trial basis is essential as it provides time for the DTT network to be completed, services to be fully developed and for additional content and receivers to be made available before analogue switch off in Q4 2012. It also means that TV viewers can choose to adopt the new service at the earliest opportunity.

The Cush

jamescc wrote: »

questions is would sky/upc have to pay rte for extra channels or other way around.

This from UPC

UPC’s cable and mmds platforms are currently subject to must carry obligations. At
present these obligations apply to RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3 and TG4. The provisions
are also applicable to community channels and UPC presently carries both the Dublin
and Cork community channels. In the past UPC has been both supportive and willing
to have these channels included (at no cost to the channels themselves) in its basic TV
packages. UPC would expect that given RTÉ’s new services will be funded with state
finances these too will fall under the must carry provisions. In this regard, UPC would
expect that the current financial arrangements for must carry services would continue
for RTÉ’s proposed services; namely both RTÉ and UPC bear their own associated
costs for the production and onward distribution of these services.

and from Sky

Sky notes RTÉ’s statement in the consultation document (pg 24 -
section 4 of the consultation document) where it confirms its objective to make the
services “available on as many digital platforms as is feasible…. …these are
expected to include cable, IPTV and digital satellite, subject to the agreement of fair,
reasonable and non discriminatory terms” Sky would expect that FRND terms in this
instance would mean that these new services would be made available to Sky’s
digital satellite platform on terms that were equivalent to those on which the same
services are provided to RTE’s proposed ‘Saorsat’ service, in order to avoid any
unnecessary and disproportionate distortion of competition.

Johnboy1951

"reasonable and non discriminatory terms”

That *should* mean they would be available on Sky without subscription ....... ?

emaherx

No it shouldn't.
Sky is pay TV. Just like you need a subscription to UPC to watch RTE on their network.
For RTE to be available without subscription on SKY, either RTE or SKY would have to pay for a FTV type card. Which would not be "reasonable"

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

In the Dept's own words

The same department that point to the EU counterparts that most of Ireland had taken up Digital through Cable and Satellite! In others sure why bother with a National Digital Platform. :rolleyes: Yes the question was Rhetorical much like the Trial

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

"reasonable and non discriminatory terms”

That *should* mean they would be available on Sky without subscription ....... ?

From my reading of it Sky would expect payment for the carriage of the extra channels in the same way that RTÉ will pay for Saorsat carriage, otherwise they would see it as "unnecessary and disproportionate distortion of competition" where RTÉ pays for one satellite service and not the other.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

From my reading of it Sky would expect payment for the carriage of the extra channels in the same way that RTÉ will pay for Saorsat carriage, otherwise they would see it as "unnecessary and disproportionate distortion of competition" where RTÉ pays for one satellite service and not the other.

As I understand it, the main reason RTE will be using a sat at all is to comply with the requirement to cover the whole of the country.
I would expect that Sky might have tendered for that business, and RTE have chosen a different sat setup to fulfil the need.

I fail to see in the circumstances, why RTE/taxpayer should have to pay anything to duplicate the coverage.

regards.

givecredit

Taken from saorview.ie:

The RTÉjr is a dedicated daytime television service for children aged 6 years and younger. RTÉjr shares channel space with RTÉ Plus and will be on from 11am to 7pm and is free of advertising. Home produced programming is the cornerstone of the RTÉjr schedule, with live action programming and Irish animation featuring strongly. RTÉjr has a companion children’s digital radio service of the same name.
. RTÉ One + 1 will share channel space with RTÉjr and will be on from 7pm to 2am. From May 2011 this channel will be an exact replica of RTÉ One, with an hour delay.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

From my reading of it Sky would expect payment for the carriage of the extra channels in the same way that RTÉ will pay for Saorsat carriage, otherwise they would see it as "unnecessary and disproportionate distortion of competition" where RTÉ pays for one satellite service and not the other.

RTÉ could point out that Sky pay for the carraige of BBC and Channel 4 Channels on their EPG for Irish customers and that to charge Irish channels to be placed on a pay platform or even not to pay Irish Channels to be on a pay platform is "unnecessary and disproportionate distortion of competition".

They pay for channels outside the sky set of channels, and they have a number of consortium channels such as National Geographic, Nickelodian UK etc etc.

givecredit wrote: »

RTÉ One + 1 will share channel space with RTÉjr and will be on from 7pm to 2am. From May 2011 this channel will be an exact replica of RTÉ One, with an hour delay.

If you noticed any time RTÉ give a month they general go with the very last day of that month rather than the first day, first week, first fortnight or even the third week. RTÉ stated spring 2011 this meant the very very end of spring 2011 even if we are clearly into summer time. (BTW this isn't just RTÉ).

Apogee

The Cush wrote: »

From my reading of it Sky would expect payment for the carriage of the extra channels in the same way that RTÉ will pay for Saorsat carriage, otherwise they would see it as "unnecessary and disproportionate distortion of competition" where RTÉ pays for one satellite service and not the other.

Surely even Sky are not that brazen that they expect to be paid? I read it that they would expect to get the Irish content for free (or close enough) into the future.

Given that Saorsat is a FTA service, and Sky never will be, they should be told to take a running jump.

The Cush

givecredit wrote: »

Taken from saorview.ie:

The RTÉjr is a dedicated daytime television service for children aged 6 years and younger. RTÉjr shares channel space with RTÉ Plus and will be on from 11am to 7pm and is free of advertising. Home produced programming is the cornerstone of the RTÉjr schedule, with live action programming and Irish animation featuring strongly. RTÉjr has a companion children’s digital radio service of the same name.
. RTÉ One + 1 will share channel space with RTÉjr and will be on from 7pm to 2am. From May 2011 this channel will be an exact replica of RTÉ One, with an hour delay.

This was RTÉ's plan for childrens programming from last Nov, this I posted earlier

The Cush wrote: »

Children's programming on RTÉ 2 will remain unchanged and TRTÉ remains on RTÉ 2 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71781377#post71781377.

The schedule for RTÉ 2 children's programmes and the RTÉjr channel will be different.

The plan for the RTÉjr channel is it will broadcast on weekdays only until May 2012 (Phase 2). Programmes will start at 1100 and end at 1900. The programmes will be a simulcast of of RTÉ2's 0900-1200 RTÉjr-block (0900-1400), repeating until 1900.

A new schedule is planned for the RTÉjr channel and the RTÉ 2 RTÉjr-block from May 2012 (phase 2).

The Cush

Apogee wrote: »

Surely even Sky are not that brazen that they expect to be paid?

It wouldn't surprise me. Their response to the new channels consultation is littered with state-aid issues etc.

Apogee

The Cush wrote: »

It wouldn't surprise me. Their response to the new channels consultation is littered with state-aid issues etc.

If that is what they're after, then the sooner the Broadcasting Act is amended the better.

If RTÉ are obliged to provide content to third parties, then at a minimum it should be stipulated that those third parties must be regulated by an Irish body and pay VAT.

Elmo

Apogee wrote: »

If RTÉ are obliged to provide content to third parties, then at a minimum it should be stipulated that those third parties must be regulated by an Irish body and pay VAT.

Sky would just turn around and say that they aren't obliged to take such content.

Apogee

Elmo wrote: »

Sky would just turn around and say that they aren't obliged to take such content.

They aren't obliged to take it now either. They obviously think it's worth something to have it as part of their subscription package.

Elmo

Apogee wrote: »

They aren't obliged to take it now either. They obviously think it's worth something to have it as part of their subscription package.

But there was many years when they didn't have any of the Irish TV channels.

http://www.rte.ie/about/pressreleases/22042002.html

BTW I completely agree with you, I am just giving you Rupert's side of the argument.

Apogee

For one thing, there were no suitable uplink facilities at Donnybrook at that time.

If Sky are paying for the carriage of RTÉ until now, they obviously see some commercial gain in doing so i.e. making their packages more attractive to Irish viewers. The likelihood of them dropping RTÉ is practically nil. If they were to do so, it would make UPCs packages considerably more attractive for very many people.

galtee boy

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the major change on Wednesday is that Cat and Dog advert will start telling us something new. Has not told us anything so far, so I'm not sure what the next message will be, but I can't wait for it.:([/QUOTE

Well, it's the 11th and as suspected, diddly squat has happened so far. No change to channel line up, still two test cards etc. Either it's the quietest launch in history or Saorview isn't actually officially launching today. The Cat and Dog are still alseep so far aswell, not a peep out of them either. Surely if it was officially launching today, it would make RTE's own news, either radio, tv, teletext or online ?:(

Elmo

galtee boy wrote: »

Well, it's the 11th and as suspected, diddly squat has happened so far. No change to channel line up, still two test cards etc. Either it's the quietest launch in history or Saorview isn't actually officially launching today. The Cat and Dog are still alseep so far aswell, not a peep out of them either. Surely if it was officially launching today, it would make RTE's own news, either radio, tv, teletext or online ?:(

In away the ads already launched Saorview, and news reports where issued on RTÉ and across most newspapers back on the 17th of March. I don't think they could have called it a "trial".

http://www.saorview.ie/

Forget the trial, saorview has launched with RTÉ 1, 2, TV3, TG4, RTÉ NN, 3e and the RTÉ set of Radio stations. More to be added over the coming year or so. It really should have been done 5 years ago.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Forget the trial, saorview has launched with RTÉ 1, 2, TV3, TG4, RTÉ NN, 3e and the RTÉ set of Radio stations. More to be added over the coming year or so. It really should have been done 5 years ago.

Lets not forget that 3e may not be there at launch yet. Note this line from the Saorview website "subject to carriage agreements with the relevant broadcasters". Have the carriage contracts been signed with TV3?

Mary Curtis said this at the launch of the Saorview public information campaign

“This public information campaign will explain how people can easily make the switch to the new SAORVIEW service and enjoy the benefits of free digital television. The SAORVIEW service will be launched at the end of May this year,” she concluded.

In the week the information campaign was launched the following was reported in the Irish Times and on Morning Ireland

As it is, TV3 has yet to confirm whether its sister channel, 3e, will be broadcast on Saorview. “We have to pay [Saorview] for transmitting 3e, so there’s a question mark over the viability of putting up channels,” McRedmond says.

The Cush wrote: »

Morning Ireland interview with RTÉ's Rory Coveney (Digital Switchover’s communications manager). Podcast available - http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2011/pc/pod-v-1503111sthour28m24smorningireland-pid0-1704288.mp3 (starts at 21:30 mins).

Some points from the interview
- Carriage deals have to be arranged within the next few weeks (3e??)

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

Lets not forget that 3e may not be there at launch yet. Note this line from the Saorview website "subject to carriage agreements with the relevant broadcasters". Have the carriage contracts been signed with TV3?

Lets not forget that TV3 will have free digital carriage until 31 Dec 2012. And that TV3 are sending out sounding that its not like they are getting carriage for free.

Such economy makes sense at a time when a cash-strapped RTÉ is seeking up to 60 job cuts. But even this slim package has drawn fire from TV3, with David McRedmond, the station’s CEO, claiming RTÉ’s plans will increase the network’s domination of the domestic market.

“We’re horrified by them, we think it’s a joke,” says McRedmond. “We’re going to be the only country in Europe with eight state channels. This is madness at a time when the State can barely afford two channels.”

Some RTÉ proposals are based around giving more prime-time exposure to the network’s large stock of acquisitions exercises. McRedmond sees such activities as hoarding at the expense of competitors. Montrose counters that the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) approved the new channels after carrying out a sectoral impact report, which McRedmond, in turn, says was not made available in full to TV3.

The TV3 chief is also concerned that RTÉ operates both the digital broadcasting platform, Saorview, and the bulk of the channels on offer. “It would be as if Aer Lingus owned Dublin airport and only allowed Ryanair two flights out a day,” he says. As it is, TV3 has yet to confirm whether its sister channel, 3e, will be broadcast on Saorview. “We have to pay [Saorview] for transmitting 3e, so there’s a question mark over the viability of putting up channels,” McRedmond says.

The article fails to mention that it will be cheaper for TV3 to run 2 channels on DTT and that TV3 profit for 2010 is around the same amount TV3 indo productions got from the licence fee the same year. Or that there will not be 8 public broadcasters (RTÉ will have 4 and TG4 will have 1, will 2 others for OTV and IFB both are unlikely), and that most Euro countries have similar number for state companies, while I don't like to look over at the UK to compare it has 6 BBC channels and 7 Channel 4 channels and 2 S4C channels.

If TV3 don't see the benefits to Digital for themselves then need their heads re-examined and the licence removed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2011/0315/1224292152903.html

Sam Russell

If there is anything we should have learned through this sorry tale is the disappointment is always the flavour. Everything has been put off for as long as possible.

I would like them to advance the ASO date to this time next year, and start turning off the major transmitters first. That is, not do it as a big bang, but one tranmitter at a time and let the screaming start in Dublin.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would like them to advance the ASO date to this time next year, and start turning off the major transmitters first. That is, not do it as a big bang, but one tranmitter at a time and let the screaming start in Dublin.

The Screaming should really start in the rural areas that will be most effected by the move. Most of dublin is covered by UPC or Sky, the most likely effect of Saorview in Dublin will be the installation of UPC and Sky multiroom (IMO).

The trials and tests should all have been done in areas that don't have digital signals rather then going after a saturated market in Dublin (Boxer, OneVision and EasyTV suggested major urban areas first, which was bound to fail from the get go). Offering new services to areas that don't have existing services then you might have had a chance.

The Big Bang method won't be that much of a bang, I would expect to see some ASO in major regions first, with the dissapperance of RTÉ Two followed by TV3 and TG4 with RTÉ One switching off on 31/12/2012 51 years after its first transmission (I would say this would happen from Nov to Dec 2012).

But RTÉ NL have yet to even mention that it will be in one big bang. We know on the internet, the BAI, RTÉ know, their is a possibility that the Department knows but the man on the street could be less interested.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Lets not forget that TV3 will have free digital carriage until 31 Dec 2012.

That's new information if correct. Your source for this?

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

That's new information if correct. Your source for this?

I think it says somewhere in the Departmental stuff that it won't happen until the Department are satisfied that TV3 should start paying for the facility. I would imagine that whom ever decides will take a soft touch approach. In other words they pay as soon as DSO/ASO happens.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

The Big Bang method won't be that much of a bang, I would expect to see some ASO in major regions first, with the dissapperance of RTÉ Two followed by TV3 and TG4 with RTÉ One switching off on 31/12/2012 51 years after its first transmission (I would say this would happen from Nov to Dec 2012).

ASO is planned for Oct 2012. This from RTÉ

The European Union has recommended the end of 2012 as the target date for analogue switch off in all member states and the Irish government have selected October 2012 as the date for Ireland.

Couldn't imagine anything like that happening in the middle of the Christmas/New Year holiday period, and in the middle of winter too. Technical and helpline staff away from families etc. Consumers losing their analogue signal in the middle of the holiday period. The UK halt DSO from Nov to Mar approx.