Saorview Content Speculation

glimmerman123

jamescc wrote: »

just checked tv no change to layout or listings!

I noticed the post on the other forum which said changes and additions were going to take place today has been removed. This happened shortly after i posted the information here. I wonder why it was removed? Maybe RTENL decided not to make any changes until near the soft launch date or what we have now on DTT is what we will have until the full launch.

jamescc

it would be interesting to see if anything but i woud not be getting my hopes up to early it could have been a mistake or a miss print

jamescc

i think that the secenery on rtenl has changed do

jamescc

glimmerman123 wrote: »

I noticed the post on the other forum which said changes and additions were going to take place today has been removed. This happened shortly after i posted the information here. I wonder why it was removed? Maybe RTENL decided not to make any changes until near the soft launch date or what we have now on DTT is what we will have until the full launch.

is this what was being talked about

http://www.rte.ie/about/pressreleases/2010/1013/rte.ieredesign13102010.html

watty

Could be. That's just a prettytification of the web site.

dowtchaboy

Looks like DTT intro under threat?

But Communications Minister Eamon Ryan's department is understood to be pointing out that removing the €55m would be "quite crippling".

RTE is handling the changeover to digital television, on behalf of the Government, so this would be the first project under threat if there was a cut.

article in todays Indo re €55M subsidy for free licences to be cut.... as will licence fee??

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rtes-euro55m-for-pensioner-tv-licences-under-threat-in-budget-2388831.html

But it IS the Indo - so it's probably not true.....:)

glimmerman123

There was a little bit of activity on the HD channel this morning. Nothing to get too excited about. The HD channel was on full colour bars since yesterday evening and this morning there was just a blank screen. The RTENL HD test card is now back with video testing.It doesn't look like anything new is going to be added to the line up at this stage. :mad:

galtee boy

glimmerman123 wrote: »

There was a little bit of activity on the HD channel this morning. Nothing to get too excited about. The HD channel was on full colour bars since yesterday evening and this morning there was just a blank screen. The RTENL HD test card is now back with video testing.It doesn't look like anything new is going to be added to the line up at this stage. :mad:

:mad::mad: Forget about October 31st, we were sold a pup again, as usual. You can call it whatever kind of launch you want, the very least it should have is the four national channels, whatever about anything extra. It's a joke. We'll have to continue paying Sky, to get a "full" digital service of our four national channels. It could only happen in this electronics/broadcasting backwater of a country.

Macy0161

You're probably right that TV3 won't be on, but I'll be waiting until 31st before giving out tbh. It's more hope than expectation, but still...

glimmerman123

If TV3 was going to be added to the line up i am sure it would be at least epg testing with program info by now. The whole thing is turning out to be one big disaster. Looks like no TV3 and the news channel is a complete joke. How are RTE going to sell this to the public if they can't even get TV3 on board for the soft launch. :mad:

watty

It will only be serious if TV3 is not on it at Full Launch.

lgs 4

glimmerman123 wrote: »

If TV3 was going to be added to the line up i am sure it would be at least epg testing with program info by now. The whole thing is turning out to be one big disaster. Looks like no TV3 and the news channel is a complete joke. How are RTE going to sell this to the public if they can't even get TV3 on board for the soft launch. :mad:

why do you want tv3 on digital its really itv is cheaper carry itv programs when make there own if i want tv3 i watch itv hd

Macy0161

glimmerman123 wrote: »

If TV3 was going to be added to the line up i am sure it would be at least epg testing with program info by now. The whole thing is turning out to be one big disaster. Looks like no TV3 and the news channel is a complete joke. How are RTE going to sell this to the public if they can't even get TV3 on board for the soft launch. :mad:

I'm pretty sure TV3 has been tested, and was taken down.

excollier

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure TV3 has been tested, and was taken down.

It most certainly was.

galtee boy

watty wrote: »

It will only be serious if TV3 is not on it at Full Launch.

Watty, I disagree. Whether TV3 is ITV 1 in disguise or not, is irrelevant. A friend of mine is in the TV trade and already, customers are telling him that they won't buy a dtt box if TV3 is missing. Like it or not, they watch X Factor etc and no, they don't all have fta satellite and some don't want it either. Unless something happens in the next week, once more, something that should be important in Irish broadcasting , is turning out to be a joke, a non event and shabby. It will be like buying a jigsaw puzzle with a piece missing. I know its not the so called full launch, but soft, technical or otherwise launch, it should have at least the four national channels.

Tom Slick

glimmerman123 wrote: »

How are RTE going to sell this to the public if they can't even get TV3 on board . . .

RTE don't have to sell anything to the public. They'll still get the licence fee and analogue tv will eventually be switched off (and maybe TV3 along with it).

watty

galtee boy wrote: »

Watty, I disagree. Unless something happens in the next week, once more, something that should be important in Irish broadcasting , is turning out to be a joke, a non event and shabby. It will be like buying a jigsaw puzzle with a piece missing. I know its not the so called full launch, but soft, technical or otherwise launch, it should have at least the four national channels.

Switch off isn't till Oct 2012. I get TV3 and cancelled Sky years ago. No Cable in Countryside either.

TV3 *DOES* need to be on it at Full launch (Sometime after March 2011)
The BAI & Government need to do something. It's nothing to do with RTE NL or RTE.

TV3 doesn't need to be on it in November, though it would be better if they were. Ultimately TV3 are to blame and Regulator for not forcing them to be full Analogue coverage. It's a disgrace that their coverage is probably less than 80%. It's TV3's decision. Not RTE NL greed.

galtee boy

watty wrote: »

Switch off isn't till Oct 2012. I get TV3 and cancelled Sky years ago. No Cable in Countryside either.

TV3 *DOES* need to be on it at Full launch (Sometime after March 2011)
The BAI & Government need to do something. It's nothing to do with RTE NL or RTE.

TV3 doesn't need to be on it in November, though it would be better if they were. Ultimately TV3 are to blame and Regulator for not forcing them to be full Analogue coverage. It's a disgrace that their coverage is probably less than 80%. It's TV3's decision. Not RTE NL greed.

I agree it's not RTE NL's fault, but they will get "painted with the same brush" so to speak, as the miserly morons who run TV3, for launching a system that has one of the main players missing. Minister Ryan & Co are fault also, for not having TV3 pay up and play ball before October 31st. If someone doesnt want to pay Sky after October 31st, is it a case of a dtt box/mpeg4 tv, combined with a Foxsat HD Pvr and an analogue feed for TV3, in order to get the best reception possible of all channels ? Messy, is'nt it ?

The Cush

excollier wrote: »

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure TV3 has been tested, and was taken down.

It most certainly was.

TV3 disappeared from the engineering tests in early March.

Until the issue of dual distribution and transmission costs for TV3/(3e) on analogue and digital terrestrial during the DSO transition period (simulcast phase) between Oct and ASO are addressed I don't expect to see the channels there. This issue was raised by BAI Chairperson Bob Collins during the RTÉ/BAI DTT presentation to the Oireachtas Committee on Communications last July. There is no benefit only cost for commercial channel TV3 to launch on DTT now.

Two possible options could be
- TV3, TG4 and 3e to be carried free of charge on DTT until ASO (approx 2 years) with the few million euro costs borne by the Dept which could encourage a quicker take up of DTT as the transmitters come on line, the cost could be recovered from the Digital Dividend process. Initially Saorview/Saorsat needs TV3/3e more than TV3/3e needs DTT.
- The other option could be for TV3/3e (probably not TG4 - already state financed) to stop transmitting on analogue terrestrial and go digital terrestrial only at public national launch (Q2 2011?), killing two birds with one stone - increased terrestrial coverage (85% to 97.2%), reduced transmission and distribution costs (multiplex tarriff). This could of course depend on their licence conditions.

Mr. Bob Collins:
... Two other issues arise that are important and in which the authority will take an interest. One is the cost of transmission, especially in the simulcast phase between October of this year and the end of 2012 when analogue switch-off will take place, for TV3 and TG4 in particular, because they are in a qualitatively different position from the RTE channels given the nature of their relationship between the transmission network and RTE the broadcaster.

... The issue of cost for TV3 and TG4 was mentioned. There is a qualitative difference between these and the two RTE television channels. Simultaneous transmissions which are, to a certain extent, test transmissions will take place until the switchover, encouraging people to become accustomed to DTT while the information campaign is proceeding. The cost, for no real return in terms of access to additional viewers, is a consideration, to which some attention will be given.

watty

galtee boy wrote: »

I If someone doesnt want to pay Sky after October 31st, is it a case of a dtt box/mpeg4 tv, combined with a Foxsat HD Pvr and an analogue feed for TV3, in order to get the best reception possible of all channels ? Messy, is'nt it ?

No. Think in terms of next year. maybe May 2011. Full Public Launch whenever that is.

The Information campaign hasn't started.

Virtually every Digital TV that can do Saorview will receive TV3 Analogue from same aerial on same socket.

I cancelled Sky years ago.

Machinehead

Minister Ryan does not have a background in broadcasting afik. He like all the other guys waffle on, furnished only with whatever information is provided to them by their various departments. He can ask questions & make calls but it is collectively up to his department & all those involved to get this DTT thing right. No individual party is responsible but they all should compelled to pull together to get this right from the start - not Oct. 31st but when the full public launch takes place. Saorview equipment spec should have been made mandatory ages ago - why, I don't know, as this would have nullified the thread "TVs with MPEG4 DTT decoder". It's crazy that someone can buy a TV tomorrow that could be redundant in 2 years. A wider choice is required to persuade people to have another "box" sitting under their TV. The pay TV side should have never been allowed to collapse. The fact that total terrestrial coverage cannot be achieved is a joke, why are transmitter numbers going from 150 approx to 50 approx. If cash is the problem then maybe Saorsat should have been plan A & not plan B as it is now.
Ultimately Minister Ryan will have to carry the can, and somebody who knows what they are doing to call the shots, but as I said it up to all the parties to pull together here. Rant over!

The Cush

Machinehead wrote: »

Minister Ryan does not have a background in broadcasting afik. He like all the other guys waffle on, furnished only with whatever information is provided to them by their various departments.

Ministers come and go, civil servants go on 'til they retire. If you want to lay blame start there.

Machinehead wrote: »

Saorview equipment spec should have been made mandatory ages ago - why, I don't know, as this would have nullified the thread "TVs with MPEG4 DTT decoder". It's crazy that someone can buy a TV tomorrow that could be redundant in 2 years.

The Minimum Receiver Spec. has been mandatory for almost 2 years - published Dec 2008 (it wasn't called Saorview then). Why do you think equipment will be redundant in 2 years?

Machinehead wrote: »

The fact that total terrestrial coverage cannot be achieved is a joke, why are transmitter numbers going from 150 approx to 50 approx. If cash is the problem then maybe Saorsat should have been plan A & not plan B as it is now.

Saorsat is only a Plan B for two reasons, firstly the option of a Ka footprint was not available at the time DTT was first planned and secondly the commercial multiplex operator was going to pay almost €14m p.a as a tarriff for their 4 muxes from 44 sites and RTÉ paying almost €6m for up to 188 sites. But all chaged in May when the commercial process failed and a revised DTT and Saorsat plan was submitted to the Dept in June.

Machinehead wrote: »

Ultimately Minister Ryan will have to carry the can, and somebody who knows what they are doing to call the shots, but as I said it up to all the parties to pull together here. Rant over!

No Minister has carried any can for the failure to launch DTT in 12 years and won't happen now. The current Minister may not be around for the full launch next year let alone ASO in late 2012.

Machinehead

@ Crush.
"The Minimum Receiver Spec. has been mandatory for almost 2 years - published Dec 2008 (it wasn't called Saorview then). Why do you think equipment will be redundant in 2 years?"
People who have some clue or interest in DTT+ASO have been posting here for months re which TV's are compatible or not. Only 1 of my friends was in any way familiar with DTT/Saorview & anyone who has called to my place & seen it had never heard of it before. Those who are not "on the same wavelength" as the people on these forums could end up buying "freeview" TV's in Tesco, Argos, Lidl or Aldi where no sales advice is available. Ergo redundant TV's after ASO. The phrase "caviat emptor" should not have to apply when all the relevant players know what the specs have been since 2008 & anyone who buys a TV now should not be ending up with a white elephant but something that will function in 5 to 10 years time. As I said some has to put their foot down, call the shots & look after the consumer.

The Cush

Machinehead wrote: »

People who have some clue or interest in DTT+ASO have been posting here for months re which TV's are compatible or not. Only 1 of my friends was in any way familiar with DTT/Saorview & anyone who has called to my place & seen it had never heard of it before. Those who are not "on the same wavelength" as the people on these forums could end up buying "freeview" TV's in Tesco, Argos, Lidl or Aldi where no sales advice is available. Ergo redundant TV's after ASO. The phrase "caviat emptor" should not have to apply when all the relevant players know what the specs have been since 2008 & anyone who buys a TV now should not be ending up with a white elephant but something that will function in 5 to 10 years time. As I said some has to put their foot down, call the shots & look after the consumer.

The problem here is not the Minimum Receiver Specification - which has been freely available for almost 2 years - but the absence of a plain-english DTT public awareness campaign and logo since the standard was announced in July 2008.

The failure of the stakeholders at that time (2008); the Dept, BCI/BAI, RTÉ/RTÉNL, Comreg to put in place a digitalUK-like central point-of-contact for the public and media (an issue raised in the Dáil in recent times by Liz McManus) - now only happening with Mary Curtis, RTÉ's new Director of Digital Switchover.

The failure of the commercial DTT process which was expected to be the "DTT champion" who would "publicise, advertise, sell" digital television (both FTA & pay) to the public.

This forum has been doing its best for the last 2 years in the absence of the above.

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

The problem here is not the Minimum Receiver Specification - which has been freely available for almost 2 years - but the absence of a plain-english DTT public awareness campaign and logo since the standard was announced in July 2008.

The failure of the stakeholders at that time (2008); the Dept, BCI/BAI, RTÉ/RTÉNL, Comreg to put in place a digitalUK-like central point-of-contact for the public and media (an issue raised in the Dáil in recent times by Liz McManus) - now only happening with Mary Curtis, RTÉ's new Director of Digital Switchover.

The failure of the commercial DTT process which was expected to be the "DTT champion" who would "publicise, advertise, sell" digital television (both FTA & pay) to the public.

This forum has been doing its best for the last 2 years in the absence of the above.

Yes to all that, but a public awareness campaign could be conducted by RTE through their own programmes at no cost to anyone. Their news programmes could have given a running commentary on the progress of the installation of the DTT infrastructure with an aside as to why it was being done. When a motorway is planned, we hear about it, why not DTT. When the digital hub (The wha. Gay?) was planned we heard about it. Why not DTT?

There is no reporting of the launch of DTT in less than ten days time. There is no reporting on the Dail questions about DTT. Nothing. I would guess there was more excitement about the launch of colour on RTE.

They constantly refer to RTE 1 being broadcast on "FM, Longwave, and on satellite from Ireland" but no mention of DTT, even when they split the wavelengths, and it is not available on FM.

Why is DTT the orphan? And who is Mary Curtis? And who does she work for? And what is her job? And why is it secret?

In fact, why is everything to do with DTT secret?

icdg

Tom Slick wrote: »

RTE don't have to sell anything to the public. They'll still get the licence fee and analogue tv will eventually be switched off (and maybe TV3 along with it).

Someone has to sell DTT to the multichannel-skeptical public (because lets face it, anyone who wants multichannel TV has invested in Sky, cable/MMDS, or Freesat). If ASO happens before the majority of analogue terrestrial viewers are switched over to DTT, there will be a public outcry and someone somewhere - most likely either RTÉ or the Government - will be blamed for it. Joe Duffy won't know what hit him.

You have to have buy-in. This notion that you can just switch off the transmitters and order people to buy DTT boxes "or else", and to hell with the public, is not a runner. It will be a political decision to switch off analogue and, that being the case, the poltician that makes it will have to have regard to the consequences of taking that decision before a sufficent precentage of the segment of the public that is reliant on analogue terrestrial has made the switch themselves.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

And who is Mary Curtis? And who does she work for? And what is her job? And why is it secret?

RTÉ Appoints Director of Digital Switchover (DSO)
Curtis Appointed Director of Digital Switchover - IFTN

Sam Russell wrote: »

In fact, why is everything to do with DTT secret?

RTÉ's great wall of silence on DTT matched only by the Great Firewall of China if this post is anything to go by - http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003604#comment-1004297.

Tom Slick

icdg wrote: »

Someone has to sell DTT to the multichannel-skeptical public . . . You have to have buy-in. This notion that you can just switch off the transmitters and order people to buy DTT boxes "or else" . . . before a sufficent precentage of the segment of the public that is reliant on analogue terrestrial has made the switch themselves.

Hopefully, 2 years (at least) will be long enough for most people to get their act together. A year or so from now it will be easier to predict any problems relating to ASO, given that most people should at least be aware of it.

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

RTÉ Appoints Director of Digital Switchover (DSO)



RTÉ's great wall of silence on DTT matched only by the Great Firewall of China if this post is anything to go by - http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003604#comment-1004297.

It is all very well to link to the press release of an appointment, but nothing has been heard of it since. This appointment was to be the central focus of the DTT project. All that has been heard of the office appointment is ...... nothing. Silence. Not a peep.

Do I assume that she has not taken up the appointment? Or that she is so busy being a Director of DTT that she has forgotten to make any press releases on how things are going, after all it is less than ten days to launch time? Is there going to be a formal knees up, and if so, where is my invitation? Is there even going to be a press release about it?

Hark! Nothing. I thought I might have heard a whisper.

Is she a figment of the DG's immagination? Goan hasn'y gone yet, maybe she has thrown her hat in the ring to replace him. We don't know anything about her progress in her new job, or about DTT from RTE. Or RTEL.:mad:

watty

The Cush wrote: »

RTÉ's great wall of silence on DTT matched only by the Great Firewall of China if this post is anything to go by - http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003604#comment-1004297.

OK. Three weeks ago. Never heard more. I'll phone RTE NL next week

Seems no-one inside RTE wants the DG job.