Saorview Content Speculation

The Cush

RTÉ says channels are available on freesat or if you wish to pay - on Sky.

(Edited my previous post, re: RTÉ situation in July on the UK channels)

ftakeith

The Cush wrote: »

RTÉ says channels are available on freesat or if you wish to pay - on Sky.

(Edited my previous post, re: RTÉ situation in July on the UK channels)

a combo HD satellite/terrestrial receiver connected to an outdoor tv aerial for irish dtt and a satellite dish for UK freesat
just select the 30-40 decent fta UK/irish tv channels depending on viewing habits

watty

Don't hold your breath for ANY pay TV other than a Premium "Top Up" TV type scenario with a handful of channels. Maybe Sky Sports. But not the main FTA in UK (BBC, ITV Five, C4) and not lower viewing channels. It's not economic. Unlikely anyway before 2013 or 2014.

Freesat for UK TV. By time Irish Digital is "Fully launched" there will be Saorsat too, so plenty of options maybe next June.

Don't rush into spending money now, or even for November Soft launch. Wait at least till Jan/Feb to review situation.

galtee boy

With October 31st only 7 weeks away, when can we expect to see tests for RTE 1+1, Den Tv, 3e, some video on the HD channel, the return of TV3 etc ? Nothing new has appeared on the tests for months now. Wouldn't we want to see some activity soon ?

gtg60

galtee boy wrote: »

Wouldn't we want to see some activity soon ?

You'd think, wouldn't you?

Starting to look like we'll be getting a big fat nothing extra come the 31st of October!

watty

galtee boy wrote: »

With October 31st only 7 weeks away, when can we expect to see tests for RTE 1+1, Den Tv, 3e, some video on the HD channel, the return of TV3 etc ? Nothing new has appeared on the tests for months now. Wouldn't we want to see some activity soon ?

Not necessary.

They can "hit the switch" 31st Oct. That's when the service starts.

Also Publicity is not likely till afterwards... Ramping up a little in Nov/Dec and then ramp-up to full swing Jan 2011 to May/June 2011 or whenever full launch is.

The "Full Public Launch" date in 2011 is the really important / interesting date. Not 31st October 2010. That's why there is no rush to waste money on gear that might not be 100% compatible or the best solution.

Don't forget the 31st October 2010 is "Technical Launch" and there is no agreed date for Full Public Launch.

The Minister Eamonn Ryan says 31st December 2011 at the latest.
RTE says Q2 2011 at the Earliest..

I suspect there will be no exact date decided until Kasat has successfully deployed or not after its launch sometime between November 2010 and January 2011.

Speculation (possible Time Scale):

• Announcement on 1st November 2010 that yesterday Saorview limited service started. 94.5% population coverage.
• After November 2011 (could be as late April): Occasional RTE2 in HD, Start of DenTV & RTE News Now separate channel officially.
• Limited Public Information campaign from 1st November 2010
• November / December 2010: Some saorview certified TVs and setboxes in Shops.
• Major publicity from January/February 2011
• An announcement of actual Public launch date in January or February 2011
• Sometime November 2010 to January 2011: Ka-Sat @ 9E launch via Proton
• February/ March: Saorsat tests commence
• April/May: much variety of Saorview TVs & Setboxes
• The Public Launch date is April 2011 at earliest, December 2011 at latest, Maybe May or June.
• May/June 2011? Saorsat service is live, 100% copy of Saorview. Service Public Launch with 97.2% terrestrial population coverage. Will TV3 be on it?
• Full publicity about Analogue Switch off date after Public Launch.
• Q3 2011: Saorsat/Freesat system installs with Dual feed and HD DVB-S2 sat box with MHEG5
• Q4 2011: many or all existing areas have 2nd Mux. RTE2 HD full time?
• Early to Mid 2012: RTE1, RTE2, TV4 go HD. TV3 and TV3e now definitely on Saorview
• Mid to late 2012: All 51 sites live. 98% population coverage Terrestrially.
• late 2012: Phased Analogue Switch off starts with Three Rock, Clermont Cairn, Woodcock Hill, Carn Hill, HolyHill and perhaps Truskmore, and any Analogue Transposers fed from those.
• End 2012/Start 2013 N.I. Analogue closes and N.I. gets Freeview HD launch.
• January / February 2013: Remainder of Analogue closes. Last are Maghera, Mullaghanish, Kippure and Mt. Leinster.
• March 2013 TV3 goes HD
• April 2013 BAI abandons search for a Commercial Multiplex Operator and authorises RTENL to sell space to PayTV channels (as transmission provider like Arqiva, not PayTV operator).
• May 2013 Kerry TV launches?
• May 2013 TV3e added as pay channel if they previously didn't launch.
  

The Cush

galtee boy wrote: »

With October 31st only 7 weeks away, when can we expect to see tests for RTE 1+1, Den Tv, 3e, some video on the HD channel, the return of TV3 etc ? Nothing new has appeared on the tests for months now. Wouldn't we want to see some activity soon ?

RTE 1+1, Den Tv, Euronews - anytime between the soft launch and the full national launch

TV3 - possibly not until ASO in 2012 according to an interview on Today FM recently

3e - maybe when TV3 launches or they may not launch on DTT and remain as a pay TV option

HD content - there is a current RTÉ tender out for the upgrade of the existing playout facility to allow "pass through" live HD playout which "will enable the introduction of the HD service at the earliest possible date without the requirement to migrate to the new automation system". A new HD playout facility will in future allow recorded and "native" HD content to be broadcast. Many of us on the boards were expecting some HD football during the World Cup but as we could see from the tender spec the equipment wasn't available within RTÉ.

Regarding the Oct launch date I don't think we're going to notice anything specific, this may be more like the start of the public awareness campaign from RTÉ and thru' the media. Mary Curtis, RTÉ's new Director of Digital Switchover is due to take up her position this month probably when her replacement as Deputy Director of Programmes is announced. Her role is "to lead the RTÉ project in the communications, marketing, technical, regulatory, public information and liaison activities and to ensure that the public are enabled and encouraged to harness the new DTT infrastructure".

copacetic

where has the 'Den TV' name everyone is using come from?

watty

Isn't what RTE brand's their kids slot?. Huge enough DOG.

copacetic

It's what the toddler section in the morning is currently named (as the bug indicates), but I was wondering where people had gotten that the potential new channel was to be called Den TV.

warlikedave

copacetic wrote: »

It's what the toddler section in the morning is currently named (as the bug indicates), but I was wondering where people had gotten that the potential new channel was to be called Den TV.

Not the worst name or idea for a channel tho LOL

Apogee

copacetic wrote: »

where has the 'Den TV' name everyone is using come from?

Probably from the 'Oracle of Truth' that is wikipedia.

The document submitted by RTÉ to the Communications Committee referred to it as "RTÉ Children’s".

galtee boy

Watty, so on October 31st/November 1st 2010, you expect the channel line up to be exactly as it is now, ie RTE1,2,TG4,RTE News Now and the radio channels ?

ftakeith

galtee boy wrote: »

Watty, so on October 31st/November 1st 2010, you expect the channel line up to be exactly as it is now, ie RTE1,2,TG4,RTE News Now and the radio channels ?

http://www.magnersleague.com/matchcentre/schedule.php

look at the rte2 information below dtt channel 2

it appears the new magners league tv contract has incorpored irish dtt into its tv coverage

mike65

Has a new tramsmission service taken so long to get going anywhere in the world, ever?

Stinicker

mike65 wrote: »

Has a new tramsmission service taken so long to get going anywhere in the world, ever?

I imagine Logie Baird's system took a long time to get going, but he was after inventing the thing and not implementing something used globally for over a decade.

Sam Russell

Stinicker wrote: »

I imagine Logie Baird's system took a long time to get going, but he was after inventing the thing and not implementing something used globally for over a decade.

Actually, Logie Baird's system did not work, and it is EMI's system we use. First tests were broadcast in 1932, with full high definition (405 lines) service began broadcasting in 1936, and continued until 1939, when it was shut down during the war and recommenced broadcasting in 1948 (iirc). So only 4 years to launch, from start of tests. Our first tests were in 1991, with a full trial lasting two years followed by tow years, and counting, of tests.

So yes, the longest ever.

watty

You mean the Mechincal Victorian Era TV Baird copied?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipkow_disk
http://www.teletronic.co.uk/pioneers.htm

Baird's "TV" was nearly 30 years old when he started to refine it. (1923 first image). Baird's system was a dead end.

There are working mechanical TV systems. Almost every laser printer is a slow mechanical TV. A mechanical projector for 48" 405 TV was sold to homes in 1938 or 1939. A Cinema version existed too. Scary motor for main scanner and two cylindrical lenses (they had no laser, a laser version doesn't need the lenses). It didn't remotely use the Baird/Nipkow system. More like a high speed laser printer with photo drum as vertical scanner mirror and two cylinder lens (one for each scanning drum) added. Sadly no working versions survive.

DLP projectors are mechanical using array of nano mirrors. There are modern drum based laser projectors for outdoor 100' images but largely replaced by LED arrays.

Electronic TV was described in 1905.
Karl Braun developed the CRT for commercial use in 1897 (still called a Braun Tube in Germany till 1950s) and in 1901 Fleming the valve Triode Amplifier.


1923 to 1924 Vladimir Zworykin files Patents for CRT based camera and CRT based picture tube.

We were VERY late to ordinary TV, 31st December 1961. That's 35 years after electronic TV was transmitted and 12 years after most Developed Countries. The US had demonstrated Color TV in 1951 (first transmitted in 1924 in Germany).

The Cush

mike65 wrote: »

Has a new tramsmission service taken so long to get going anywhere in the world, ever?

I don't think we are unique we are just familiar with the Irish situation, for example look at the situation/mess in South Africa; DVB-T was selected 4 or 5 years ago but now in mid stream they may be going to change the standard completely, going for the Japanese/Brazilian standard ISDB-T instead. South Africa only launched an analogue tv service in 1976, almost 50 years after tv broadcasting started in the US.

SA decided in 2006 to implement the European DVB-T standard. However, in April it controversially started to review the decision, and is now pondering the Brazilian version of the Japanese ISDB-T standard – a move that has stalled the entire migration process.

watty

The Afrikanners had a regligious objection to TV
The proposed switch from DVB-T to used only in Brazil verison of ISDB-T is some sort of political/Corruption scam. People I talk to there are scandalized. Hopefully for South Africans this will not happen. ISDB-T isn't much sense, but the Brazilian version is poor.

It proves though there is generally some place worse. While ranking 29th generally in "World Economic Forum" survey, we are 5 places below Zimbabwe in "Soundness of banking", at 139th, bottom. Of course there are many more Countries than 139 (not in the WEF ratings), so there may be worse.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Our first tests were in 1991, with a full trial lasting two years followed by tow years, and counting, of tests.

So yes, the longest ever.

The first DVB-T tests in Dublin were in late 1997.

mike65

To be fair I was being a bit flippant I was'nt really expecting to be the longest, it just feels like it.

STB

The Cush wrote: »

I don't think we are unique we are just familiar with the Irish situation, for example look at the situation/mess in South Africa; DVB-T was selected 4 or 5 years ago but now in mid stream they may be going to change the standard completely, going for the Japanese/Brazilian standard ISDB-T instead. South Africa only launched an analogue tv service in 1976, almost 50 years after tv broadcasting started in the US.

I had thought the arguement was over dvb-t2 or dvb-t. It is dvb-t that they are going ahead with it isnt it and also using MHEG5.

watty

Frightenly it's true that they really are "seriously" considering the Brazillian version of ISDB-T in South Africa. My Business partner is doing a job there at the minute and he has confirmed the news reports.
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/broadcasting/13660-Digital-standards-battle-ISDB--pushed.html

The folks there are not happy at the prospect
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/248658-Digital-TV-standards-ISDB-T-pushed-by-Brazil

More http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=35858:brazil-to-test-isdbt-in-sa&catid=69&Itemid=58

So things COULD be worse... I guess Brazil feel lonely. But why when SA has 8MHz channels would they adopt an inferior system for 6MHz channels (And DVB-t can do 6MHz. Brazil could have used DVB-T 6MHz as is or USA ASTC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_tuner also used in Central America. Why they felt they had to customise the mad Japanese system and be alone and then try an inflict it on South Africa is a mystery. Why is the Government in South Africa even listening?

Actually some more goggling..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISDB-T_International
Seems Brazil convinced most of South America to join their crazy club. Secam/NTSC/Pal repeated all over again on Digital, except worse.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

It is dvb-t that they are going ahead with it isnt it and also using MHEG5.

That why it's such a mess right now, Brazil has stepped in and offered it's version of ISDB-T with Ginga middleware.

Some links from earlier this year when the whole standards issue was reopened
Row looming over digital TV standards
SDB-T expansion around the World - It takes many to Ginga
SA set to abandon digital TV standard
SADIBA submission

Latest news
Myths shroud broadcasting standards
Digital TV broadcasting standards demystified
Scrambling for Africa: ISDB-T vs. DVB-T (and now DVB-H?)

The Cush

copacetic wrote: »

where has the 'Den TV' name everyone is using come from?

Apogee wrote: »

Probably from the 'Oracle of Truth' that is wikipedia.

The document submitted by RTÉ to the Communications Committee referred to it as "RTÉ Children’s".

This from the Irish Times website today, no mention of a DTT channel in the article.

RTÉ overhauls children's TV
RONAN MCGREEVY

Mon, Sep 13, 2010

RTÉ has announced the biggest overhaul of its children's television schedule to date.

The station today unveiled plans for two new programmes strands. RTÉjr will be broadcast for under sixes and TRTÉ for children aged seven to 15 on RTÉ2 from the beginning of next week.

...

The new station strands will also have digital radio equivalents in RTÉjr and TRTÉ.

RTÉ Young Peoples Programme commissioning editor Sheila de Courcy said the new programme strands were "quintessential public service broadcasting for 21st century audiences".

She said RTÉjr would be a "safe, fun, magical place for children" while TRTÉ would reflect the demands of thje older cohort.

"These schedules ensure that our audiences are never more than 30 minutes away from Irish production, from stories and output that reflect their immediate world and their lives," she said.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0913/breaking38.html
irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Monday, September 13, 2010, 15:07

watty

Seems The Den will be gone.
So "Children's TV" or RTÉjr is the DTT channel. http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/rte-children

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

This from the Irish Times website today, no mention of a DTT channel in the article.

RTÉ press release up, no mention of availability on DTT/Saorview.

Macy0161

watty wrote: »

Seems The Den will be gone.
So "Children's TV" or RTÉjr is the DTT channel. http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/rte-children

Hopefully it will be RTEjr that is the DTT channel, up against cbeebies and broadcast all day, with TRTE on RTE2 (presumably after the schools are out).

scath

Macy0161 wrote: »

Hopefully it will be RTEjr that is the DTT channel, up against cbeebies and broadcast all day, with TRTE on RTE2 (presumably after the schools are out).

Interesting...that's one possibility, another is 2 dedicated channels on DTT and RTÉ2 given new content for adult audiences morning/daytime which would beef up RTÉ against TV3 and put pressure on TV3 to do likewise with 3e.

I suspect that is what's going to happen that RTÉ2 gets repositioned with a mixture of archive and USA drama. RTÉJunior and TRTÉ might timeshare or they could become 2 dedicated seperate channels. If they were seperate it would allow part time Irish Film Channel in the evening. Similarly RTÉ News Now could be an Oireachtas part-time channel with a continuation of news bulletins as is now.