More on the "Psychoactive Substances" bill

Indubitable

Takeshi_Kovacs wrote: »

Well shiat, they may as well restrict sale of copper tubing, gas burners, etc, cos you know, i could be constructing a still to make up a few batches of the poitin...

Don't give them any ideas....

Takeshi_Kovacs

Duck's hoop wrote: »

7Up wouldn't be as bad as the rumour among some tokers about really finely crushed glass being added to bulk it. Possible urban legend there though.

There is actually some truth in this, in that some dealers do add finely crushed glass to the buds, to give them more of a 'frosty' look. This is due to the fact that high THC yielding strains tend to have a 'frosty' appearance, due to the high density of Trichomes (these contain high level in THC)
http://bioweb.uwlax.edu/bio203/s2009/beisker_shau/cannabis%20Trichomes.jpg
Plus the added weight is beneficial too to the dealer.

Duck's hoop

Takeshi_Kovacs wrote: »

Hmmm, i wonder will they require shopowners etc, to keep track of they do sell the equipment to as well, should be interesting...

Well there was once a time, in small town Ireland, when all there was was small town Ireland, that the GS requested tobaconists to record the names of any client who purchased larger than average cigarette rolling papers.

I think that's probably illegal under privacy laws these days though.

On the 'frosty' bud look, I have it on authority that the marijuana, should it be assiduously gardened, will have no need for cosmetic enhancement in the form of crushed glass. It's all about the weight. But I don't personally believe it happens as much or as often. Stoner paranoia I reckon.

Pace2008

moonpurple wrote: »

excellent development

close these shops down

makes it harder for the average 13 year old to find these filthy chemical toxins

not impossible

but harder...:pac:

For the children!

Ha, weren't you posting in the Politics forum a while back expressing your outrage over the Government's campaign to discourage the use of mobile phones whilst driving? I don't think you're a good judge of what's good for the health of the nation.

/Ad hominem

By the by, I'd love to see our esteemed minster pay a visit to the Life Festival this weekend to see just how well prohibition's working

Hammered hippie

Most of it is completely in violation with european treaties describing fundamental rights of EU citizens.

It basically boils down to this.
Every politician or member of a policy making lobby group will have absolute totalitarian powers to close practically any shop they don't like.
The Gardai can go and raid any business without any kind of warrant..just on the basis of suspicion.

Funny detail is that four weeks ago this law was said to be impossible to implement, unless Ireland would be a totalitarian state.
Apparently we have turned into a totalitarian state because the law is going forth. Scary **** by dudes that are supposed to represent us, the voter

strobe

Takeshi_Kovacs wrote: »

There is actually some truth in this, in that some dealers do add finely crushed glass to the buds, to give them more of a 'frosty' look. This is due to the fact that high THC yielding strains tend to have a 'frosty' appearance, due to the high density of Trichomes (these contain high level in THC)
http://bioweb.uwlax.edu/bio203/s2009/beisker_shau/cannabis%20Trichomes.jpg
Plus the added weight is beneficial too to the dealer.

That's a little missleading. THe crushed glass thing seems to have been a large once off contaminated batch of weed, probably contaminated due to how it was smuggled into or around the UK. The idea of dealers actually sitting there crushing glass bottles to sprinkle over there weed is on par with the idea of people cutting xtc with heroin. Just doesn't happen, apart from possibly a small handful of isolated instances.


Love the user name btw, am half way through Altered Carbon at the minute.

losh

So I go into a newsagent and buy a packet of long risla papers and I say to the shop assistant that I am going to smoke grass with it as I pay for it.

Does this mean that the shop assistant is breaking the law because he/she now knows i will be using it for illegal purposes?
I cant see this part of the new law standing up.

I buy a 1 liter bottle of 7up and I say to the shop assistant that when I finish the bottle I will use it to smoke grass when it is empty. ( yes it can be done , tastes nice and fruity)
Does this mean that the shop assistant is breaking the law because he/she now knows i will be using it for illegal purposes?

I was at a Sunday market last weekend and bought a pipe and some long papers from a stall . There were 2 or 3 vendors selling these products on their stalls. Will this Vendor now be hauled away to jail?:rolleyes:

strobe

losh wrote: »

So I go into a newsagent and buy a packet of long risla papers and I say to the shop assistant that I am going to smoke grass with it as I pay for it.

Does this mean that the shop assistant is breaking the law because he/she now knows i will be using it for illegal purposes?
I cant see this part of the new law standing up.

I buy a 1 liter bottle of 7up and I say to the shop assistant that when I finish the bottle I will use it to smoke grass when it is empty. ( yes it can be done , tastes nice and fruity)
Does this mean that the shop assistant is breaking the law because he/she now knows i will be using it for illegal purposes?

I was at a Sunday market last weekend and bought a pipe and some long papers from a stall . There were 2 or 3 vendors selling these products on their stalls. Will this Vendor now be hauled away to jail?:rolleyes:

You wouldn't have to say that you were going to be using those things for smoking weed with at all. Potentially the cashier could be prosecuted under the part that mentions them "being reckless as to whether it will be so used" for that purpose. To avoid any chance of prosecution they would have to specifically ask you if you were going to use it for the consumption of a controlled drug or psychoactive substance.

But that goes both ways, if you buy a bong with a big cannabis leaf printed on the side of it and the cashier asks you if you are going to use it for the consumption of a controlled drug or psychoactive substance, and you say no, there should be no way they can be prosecuted for that sale anymore than the guy in Centra that sold you the skins could.

rubensni

Skins aren't in the bill, just hydroponics, bongs and pipes.

And it's a stupid law, can't be enforced. But it will allow the Guards to harass shops that look like they're catering to smokers; which they do anyway. Bloody fascists.

This is what you get when you let JOOOOE DUFFAAAAAYYYAH!!! dictate what is and isn't illegal :rolleyes:

Demonon

"Under the proposed Scheme, the sale or supply of substances which are not specifically proscribed under the Misuse of Drugs Acts, but which have psychoactive effects, for human consumption will be a criminal offence," Minister Ahern said in a statement.

Technically they have to ban nutmeg under this new legislation too, it is definitely a psychoactive (have done it in the past) and a hallucinogen and highly toxic in the wrong doses.

And sage too, damn my kitchen just got a whole lot more boring.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

The definition of bad legislation is vague legislation.
This law is an ass...

Demonon

Rushed in, not well thought out legislation ftw !

Fremen

Are they going to ban cough syrup too? You can get wrecked for days at a time on Dextromethorphan, a.k.a. DXM.
That said it only applies to certain brands. Attempting to abuse most brands of cough syrup will kill you stone dead.

At any rate, banning a drug just means it will get replaced by something else, something potentially worse. The only reason crystal meth is popular is that can easily be made from pseudoephedrin found in many allergy tablets, which means it's cheap to make and readily available. It doesn't have much of a foothold in Ireland, but legislation like this is one way to ensure it makes its way in.

People will find a way to get high. It would be nice if we could ensure they do so safely.

strobe

rubensni wrote: »

Skins aren't in the bill, just hydroponics, bongs and pipes.

And it's a stupid law, can't be enforced. But it will allow the Guards to harass shops that look like they're catering to smokers; which they do anyway. Bloody fascists.

This is what you get when you let JOOOOE DUFFAAAAAYYYAH!!! dictate what is and isn't illegal :rolleyes:

This is the quote I'm working off: "any pipe, utensil or other object made or adapted for use in connection with the consumption of a controlled drug or psychoactive substance". Skins could easily be considered a utensil or other object. I still fail to see how they could object to a bong or pipe with a little cardboard tag on it saying "tobacco pipe"? I guess we'll have to wait untill the law actually goes through to see how they intend to phrase it.

losh

I grew up in the 80s and always believed that this country would become more liberal with time.( How wrong I was :mad:). We were becoming a liberal country but all of a sudden we are living in a right wing controlled society over night.
How did this happen?
Who are these conservative people who want us living back in 1950s Ireland and where do they live because I dont know any of them.
At the moment they are passing laws regarding legal/illegal drugs that will have consequences on the mainstream of society eventually.
This is a start of a new regime of the right wing which we have to be very carefull of.
I believe this law will be passed next week without any warning and will be retrospective. Is this democracy?
If you want to buy a bong or kitchen utensils or certain seeds or are growing
"tomatoes" then get everything you need this weekend 'cos its all going to be illegal very, very sooner than you think.:eek:
This is bad law not just for the head shops but the country in general.

kylith

So, what can we do?

And if ye're not going to do anything where can I find people who will?

KingLoser

Pick a date, and all of us flood Joe Duffy with calls about it. That's how the other side got this enforced, perhaps we fight Joe with Joe.

And hey, at least we won't have to leave the chair.

losh

What can we do?

1,The minimum we can do is email our local representatives stating we are not happy about this .
2,The maximum we can do is the people can rise up in revolution.
1, will be a waste of time .
2, will be a bit extreme .
In a democracy all we can do is not vote for these people again.
Unfortunately in a democracy thats all the power we have:mad:

Run_to_da_hills

It made me laugh to see the wording of this bill banning "Hydrophonics" equipment for the cultivation of cannabis.

They will have a hard job trying to ban the sale of buckets, heat mats, capillary tubing, fish tank bubblers, electric timer switches, extraction fans and HPS bulbs from your local hard ware, electrical or plumber suppliers.

KevinVonSpiel

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It made me laugh to see the wording of this bill banning "Hydrophonics" equipment for the cultivation of cannabis.

They will have a hard job trying to ban the sale of buckets, heat mats, capillary tubing, fish tank bubblers, electric timer switches, extraction fans and HPS bulbs from your local hard ware, electrical or plumber suppliers.

Perhaps the legislation has as its target those who could not make up such a system from scratch...?

Actually, hasn't all legislation as its target those who can't easily work around it?

Steodonn

losh wrote: »

What can we do?

1,The minimum we can do is email our local representatives stating we are not happy about this .
2,The maximum we can do is the people can rise up in revolution.
1, will be a waste of time .
2, will be a bit extreme .
In a democracy all we can do is not vote for these people again.
Unfortunately in a democracy thats all the power we have:mad:

Or a number of things. Protest to get the issue raised. organize debates to get the message across. If all else fails move to Netherlands

generalmiaow

KevinVonSpiel wrote: »

Perhaps the legislation has as its target those who could not make up such a system from scratch...?

Actually, hasn't all legislation as its target those who can't easily work around it?

If by that you mean a fantasy figure, you are right. Growing weed is the definition of industriousness. Nobody who does it expects to be handed a full lighting rig on a plate. Moving the business of buying lights from the grow shop to the DIY shop/garden centre/ebay will make absolutely zero difference to the difficulty of doing it, it's just an attempt to delegitimise it to satisfy the lonely, parasitic, nosey geriatrics who think they have any business in what goes on in the privacy of your own home. The sooner that generation dies off the better.

This is a fucking stupid idea for a law. Well done, you old pricks. It's a pity you couldn't get such a sustained workout over your medical cards or you might actually live to see this paleolithic policy fail.

Abrasax

Duck's hoop wrote: »

On the 'frosty' bud look, I have it on authority that the marijuana, should it be assiduously gardened, will have no need for cosmetic enhancement in the form of crushed glass. It's all about the weight. But I don't personally believe it happens as much or as often. Stoner paranoia I reckon.

Your'e right right about the glass. I don't think it was ever used.
They were using silicon at one stage, however, and the material in road markings which causes them to reflect. But these were causing some bad reactions in people, so they stopped adding them.
Sand was another one, which was sprayed on as the plant was still growing, but which was very easy to spot.
The sugar type substances are still pretty common though. If you smoke a joint and the ash stays hard when you smoke and doesn't fall off, some type of sugar has been added.
They're using something else now, I'm not sure what it is, which is applied when the grass has just been harvested, to retain the moisture and therefore the weight, but which is very hard to detect. You can tell by the feel of it. Damp (but no taste of sugar), won't crush betwen your fingers and a little drier inside, if you snap a bud in half.

Korvanica

Deleted User wrote: »

Meh, I don't use bongs anymore and everyone has their contacts for proper drugs back so i'm happy.

Classic coke bottle and a can is all you need for a bong... Buying bongs? what is this... amateur hour?

Proper drugs FTW...

i still hope the government dies though

Run_to_da_hills

KevinVonSpiel wrote: »

Perhaps the legislation has as its target those who could not make up such a system from scratch...?

Actually, hasn't all legislation as its target those who can't easily work around it?

Hydrophonics is simple to set up, It is basic irrigation and the principal goes back centuries

Most Supermarket fresh vegetables are grown under hydrophonics so the technology it is not just used for growing dope as this fascist government seems to believe.

Hydrophonics also have their disadvantages, pump noise if your set up is discrete, also pump failure or leakage that could destroy an entire crop over a weekend.

If one isn't capable of setting up and maintaining a basic hydrophonics system I don't think they would be capable of growing the stuff in the first place. There are books and websites available on basic plant irrigation.

Banned Account

An application under [FONT=Arial,Arial]Head 8 [/FONT]may not be made unless a member of the Garda Síochána not below the rank of superintendent—
([FONT=Arial,Arial]a[/FONT]) has reasonable grounds for believing that a person is—

(II) promoting the consumption of a substance for its psychoactive effects or effects similar to that of a controlled drug and providing information on how or where the substance may be obtained,

Looks like we have to be careful about what we type on these here boards:eek:

"place" means a physical location and includes—
([FONT=Arial,Arial]a[/FONT]) a building or structure of any kind,
([FONT=Arial,Arial]b[/FONT]) a vessel, whether sea-going or not,
([FONT=Arial,Arial]c[/FONT]) an aircraft, whether capable of operation or not, and
([FONT=Arial,Arial]d[/FONT]) a hovercraft;

My favourite part of the whole act - forget putting any thought into the impracticalities of banning pipes and buckets - just make sure you get those hovercraft dealers banned

Idiots really.

DepecheHead101

strobe wrote: »

That's a little missleading. THe crushed glass thing seems to have been a large once off contaminated batch of weed, probably contaminated due to how it was smuggled into or around the UK. The idea of dealers actually sitting there crushing glass bottles to sprinkle over there weed is on par with the idea of people cutting xtc with heroin. Just doesn't happen, apart from possibly a small handful of isolated instances.


Love the user name btw, am half way through Altered Carbon at the minute.

Not true I'm afriad. Crushed glass shipments were around for years. It's only recently it seems to be falling by the wayside at the hands of the increasing quality of homegrown and more subtle contamination techniques.

The glass has been around since at least 2006, when much of the 'white widow' down south was making people cough up blood over the Christmas. Nowdays though it's more likely to be sugar, sand, paste or reflective paint [the stuff they put on lines on the road].

A lot of bud also will leave a very hard ash that you can later crush into a black liquid, which I think is more of a result of fertilizer and drying out complications in inexperienced growers.

As for the pipe ban? The principal is absoloutely infuriating, but gravity bongs are cheaper to make and a lot stronger.

Hammered hippie

By now it will be way easier for anyone to prove that the government is using this and other laws to actually help illegal drug dealers than it will be for the government to even proof that many of the previously banned substances were acutally bad for the public health.

Banning loads of legal highs ----> good for drug dealers (anyone can see that..not much proof needed here)

Legal highs ---> For most there is no scientific proof whatsoever that they are bad for your health.

The grounds on which this new and recent passed laws are passed is clientelism, the favouring of the democratic rights of a few over those of the many, and ofcourse a desperate attempt to divert attention away from such things as Nama and Anglo Irish. Shame on the government for applying these kind of dictatorial tactics!
Maybe we should force the government to proof that they are not actually secretly trying to help the drug lords, because it sure looks that way!

Banned Account

Hammered hippie wrote: »

and ofcourse a desperate attempt to divert attention away from such things as Nama and Anglo Irish.

FAIL.


p.s. It's prove.

Hammered hippie

Well spotted Fitzcaraldo!:rolleyes: