More on the "Psychoactive Substances" bill

ScumLord

Pace2008 wrote: »

Heroin is synthesised from pant-based morphine; it is a man-made drug and you won't find it occurring naturally anywhere on this planet, not unlike MDMA which is derived from safrole. Amphetamines mighn't be your thing but plenty of people, myself included, like stimulants, and if you're into your stims you'll love speed.

2C-B is a psychedelic described in simple terms as a cross between LSD and MDMA, which you'd probably enjoy judging by your drugs of preference. This is just the tip of the iceberg - there are hundreds of psychoactive semi-synthetic tryptamines and phenethylamines that have been rated highly by experienced drug users. You might not have tried many man-made drugs you've liked but that doesn't mean they're not there in abundance.

Have tried speed a good bit in the past but just didn't see the point in it. I stand by my coffee description. It's the same as if you drink a load of coffee only amplified. Yolks had a buzz off them and from the sounds of things I may have tried that 2C-B stuff except it was sold to me as yolks, we just called them trippy yolks, I loved them.

Anything I got from the headshop was pretty pants, did they sell that stuff in the headshop.

Intensive Care Bear

2C-B is the only drug that i have ever had a bad experience off, was given too much to snort and it brought on 8 hours of pure hell, i can only imagine what it would have done to me (mentally) if i was new to that scene.

Augmerson

It's not against the charter or anything to talk about drug use and experiences amongst users?

Intensive Care Bear

If you took 2C-B you would know all about it, never sold in shops here and cost 150 a g so i doubt people were selling it as pills.

cypharius

The problem with drugs in this country(As I see it) is education. All kids ever hear is how hash will **** you up, and then they make it a class A drug to show how dangerous. So they try it, and they're fine... So they think "Hey, they lied to us about this, what about cocain and heroine, they must not be as bad as they say".

If hash is a class A drug, then wtf do we class stuff like PCP as?

Intensive Care Bear

Sorry, im new and i never read it, sorry kids

cypharius

Augmerson wrote: »

It's not against the charter or anything to talk about drug use and experiences amongst users?

No, just advising to take drugs.

The following are not permitted:

• Asking / telling where to buy drugs.
• Asking / telling how to take drugs.
• Asking / telling how to grow drugs.
• Asking / telling how to get a fake ID.
• Advising other users to take drugs.

Killer Pigeon

cypharius wrote: »

The problem with drugs in this country(As I see it) is education. All kids ever hear is how hash will **** you up, and then they make it a class A drug to show how dangerous. So they try it, and they're fine... So they think "Hey, they lied to us about this, what about cocain and heroine, they must not be as bad as they say".

If hash is a class A drug, then wtf do we class stuff like PCP as?

Cannabis (Hemp) was only make illegal so that the paper companies could make more money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_%28drug%29

barrackali

Augmerson wrote: »

FF is the same as FG as far as I'm concerned. I was going to vote Labour or Sinn Fein but I want to know about their policy towards drugs first.

It can feel very hopeless sometimes living in Ireland. Muppets are running the show and it feels like the only way out is to emigrate, but that would be giving the muppets an easy victory and this is precisely what they have been doing since the 1920s

So you are going to base your electoral choice on the basis of who will give your "legal highs" back. None of the parties will make Head Shops viable in theis country.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

barrackali wrote: »

So you are going to base your electoral choice on the basis of who will give your "legal highs" back. None of the parties will make Head Shops viable in theis country.

Each to their own...

barrackali

Franklin Drab Farmhouse wrote: »

Each to their own...

You would think there would be more important issues out there....but as you say....each to their own. :rolleyes:

Augmerson

barrackali wrote: »

So you are going to base your electoral choice on the basis of who will give your "legal highs" back. None of the parties will make Head Shops viable in theis country.

No, I accept that and I am not looking for a repeal, this isn't the child throwing a strop because his toys were taken away stuff. I would like to see a mature, informed strategy towards drugs and drugs use in this country.

barrackali

Augmerson wrote: »

No, I accept that and I am not looking for a repeal, this isn't the child throwing a strop because his toys were taken away stuff. I would like to see a mature, informed strategy towards drugs and drugs use in this country.

Ok, glad u cleared that up so.

cork60

Does this legislation cover the import from other countries of non controlled drugs for personal use. i.e. 1g of a certain rc. I cant seem to find anywhere in the bill that includes this as it mostly says for sale, as i know it's to stop headshops.

Pace2008

cork60 wrote: »

Does this legislation cover the import from other countries of non controlled drugs for personal use. i.e. 1g of a certain rc. I cant seem to find anywhere in the bill that includes this as it mostly says for sale, as i know it's to stop headshops.

If the substance isn't covered under legislation it's legal to import and possess. It's only those intending to distribute such drugs that are subject to the new laws.

cork60

^^ Well aint that not too bad so!!! I feel a bit better now! At least when the headshops are gone the scene will settle and those with the know how could enjoy whats on offer. Will also cut the majority of youths out too because payment methods require a person to be over 18. Not all is lost.

BUGS_DRUNNY

^^^^^^^Hold on i thought it was including possesion of all the chemicals in the last law that was passed! A lot of which would be known as rc's surely you can't just buy mephedrone online now and its not against the law!

I know you can with rc's that aren't legislated against!

Aids By Google

Just read the majority of that bill. Am I correct in stating that it is still OK to ingest or whatever those substances? As in it is not like Hash or coke in the possession sense? Or did I miss that.

I didn't see anything about personal possession?

Tarzan_man

No this is the 3rd bit of legislation. The first bill they released gives you up to 7 years for possession and life imprisonment for selling the newly controlled substances.

Second one was to fix things in the first one I'm assuming. Basically making sure alcohol and tobacco etc aren't affected, along with controlling who can get psychoactive substances, and making sure they can't have new ones without applying to a committee for approval.

The purpose of this bill is clearly to shut down headshops once and for all. Since the drugs are gone, they are now focusing on their other means of income. Namely, drugs paraphernalia and growing equipment.

Surprised they haven't banned books on drugs ffs.

cork60

BUGS_DRUNNY wrote: »

^^^^^^^Hold on i thought it was including possesion of all the chemicals in the last law that was passed! A lot of which would be known as rc's surely you can't just buy mephedrone online now and its not against the law!

I know you can with rc's that aren't legislated against!

As with my previous post im talking about the Rc's that arnt controlled. Of course you cant buy "mephedrone and the like" as they are now controlled substances.

barrackali

Things seem to be really getting hot for the remaining headshops, more warnings about head shop products:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0609/breaking67.html

Teutorix

Just wondering, is the import and possession of salvia divinorum still legal?

Shulgin

barrackali wrote: »

Things seem to be really getting hot for the remaining headshops, more warnings about head shop products:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0609/breaking67.html

We all predicted that this would happen. They ban mephedrone and a few other questionable chemicals. Along come new even dodgier chems to bypass the law. Legalising the established known drugs is the only way to put an end to the cat and mouse games.

When headshops close it`s only a matter of buying online instead.

Tarzan_man

cork60 wrote: »

As with my previous post im talking about the Rc's that arnt controlled. Of course you cant buy "mephedrone and the like" as they are now controlled substances.

All psychoactive substances are now controlled. To sell any kind in Ireland requires approval. But possession of substances NOT covered under the first ban, is not illegal

So yes, you can order RCs from the net that aren't included in the list of recently banned substances. Eg. Smoking blends and any mephadrone products.

Reading through the that last bit of legistation again, if I'm reading it right, a Garda can search your premises, without warrant, if he believes you have something that could be destroyed before they can get a warrant.

Surely thats complete balls?

barrackali

Teutorix wrote: »

Just wondering, is the import and possession of salvia divinorum still legal?

I thought it was both

Pace2008

barrackali wrote: »

Things seem to be really getting hot for the remaining headshops, more warnings about head shop products:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0609/breaking67.html

Sounds like Whack could be naphyrone, a nasty compound unfit for man or beast that only came into existence as a result of blanket bans on cathinones in the UK (themselves the product of the prohibtion of better-known substances).

BUGS_DRUNNY

cork60 wrote: »

As with my previous post im talking about the Rc's that arnt controlled. Of course you cant buy "mephedrone and the like" as they are now controlled substances.

Cool cool.
Just makin sure!

Apparently a lot of the new RC's are pretty dodgey though!

BUGS_DRUNNY

Pace2008 wrote: »

Sounds like Whack could be naphyrone, a nasty compound unfit for man or beast that only came into existence as a result of blanket bans on cathinones in the UK (themselves the product of the prohibtion of better-known substances).

I had heard somewhere else that whack was naphyrone.

Looks like it is a pretty crazy chemical.

xoixo

Backwards, backwards, backwards.

Has any of our politicians looked abroad to the consequences of various drug laws. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the emergence of Crystal Meth in the USA in their "war against drugs". Sooo.. doesn't that mean we should look to areas with more success in their laws E.G. Portugal?

"At the recommendation of a national commission charged with addressing Portugal's drug problem, jail time was replaced with the offer of therapy. The argument was that the fear of prison drives addicts underground and that incarceration is more expensive than treatment — so why not give drug addicts health services instead? Under Portugal's new regime, people found guilty of possessing small amounts of drugs are sent to a panel consisting of a psychologist, social worker and legal adviser for appropriate treatment (which may be refused without criminal punishment), instead of jail."

"At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem (**ring any bells?); the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise."

Results:

"Five years later, the number of deaths from street drug overdoses dropped from around 400 to 290 annually, and the number of new HIV cases plummeted from nearly 1,400 in 2000 to about 400 in 2006, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled."

Read more studies/statistics/information:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
[URL="From:%20http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html and: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization"]http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization[/URL]

rubadub

Augmerson wrote: »

tell them that it wasn't just NAMA/failed economy/banks/**** health service that lost them your vote, it was also this.

barrackali wrote: »

Electorally they would have got a boost from this ban....but they are screwed because of their incompetence on the economy. Do you seriously think FG are going to row back on the ban.

Whoever said FG would get rid of the ban? And I am not so sure about the electoral boost, I have heard many middle aged non-users opposed to the ban. The point is to tell them and let it be known you do not agree, it is probably best to not even infer you were a user as no doubt they think it is only scum degenerates who use them -though the hypocrites probably take at least 2 of the 3 popular psychoactives caffeine/alcohol/nicotine.

I have no doorbell (I urge anybody to get rid of theirs) so thankfully do not have to suffer canvassers. But if I do come across one on the street I will tell them my mother was a sufferer of cluster headaches AKA suicide headaches and her only relief was psilocybian mushrooms. I will tell them she committed suicide (she did not) because of the agony of her condition after that ban, as she feared prosecution for taking her only adequate form of relief. and ask them how the medical committee involved in deciding to ban them ignored the well known fact that these are used for relief of this horrendous condition, and how could they justify the obvious increase in suffering and suicides by denying sufferers this vital drug. Tell them the ban was rushed in due to one single person who was drinking when he committed suicide and was also on a low dose of mushrooms, ask how the medical committee involved ignored the extremely well known link between alcohol and suicide in this case. Ask them how many more suicides have to be endured out of the approx 4,500 sufferers in the country before their medicine would be considered for relegalisation.

I would love to hear their answer...