Howth - how long is the climb?

tunney

The church side of Howth, how long to get to the summit?

cipo

Google maps, mapmyride, mapmyrun......

manwithaplan

Watts x gear inches x pi x ... = I don't know!

It's pretty steep and pretty short. You would be at the quarry gates in less than ten minutes I'd say.

christeb

This might help: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/2621928

guapos

Its between 2 and 3 km, takes me 12 or 13 minutes on a heavy mountain bike. Will be doing it on my racer during the week so will measure it then.

tunney

christeb wrote: »

This might help: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/2621928

Thanks! Helpful!

With this and the info from ROK_ON I can work out what I need to know.

garming connect is very handy.

cdaly_

About 20 mins. 10 min spinning / mashing, 10 min gasping by the roadside.

Or you can turn right at the church. Then it's 40 minutes. 8 min spinning / mashing until you get to the steep bit. Then 32 mins lying in the road waiting for the cardiac ambulance...

Lumen

Not sure which side Swords/DWCC use for their hillclimb, but some previous results here, which might put the theory into context.

On that route and knowing a couple of those riders, I reckon 4.7W/kg is about 8 minutes.

manwithaplan

Lumen,

I am really sorry you posted that. Now I'm beginning to wonder how quick I could do it (a lot slower than them, obviously). It won't be pretty.

DirkVoodoo

christeb wrote: »

This might help: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/2621928

Brian May!

Play us a song, gwan!

Billy Whizz

Lumen wrote: »

Not sure which side Swords/DWCC use for their hillclimb, but some previous results here, which might put the theory into context.

On that route and knowing a couple of those riders, I reckon 4.7W/kg is about 8 minutes.

That uses the other side of Howth.

From Howth village to the pub is 2.1km and 110m elevation I think.

ROK ON

http://www.mapmyride.com/route/ie/howth/357127532830073009

Check the elevation button.

amused2death

Dublin Wheelers use the other side of Howth as part of their Club TT league. Start is across from St. Fintan's Primary School to the summit 3.7Km with best time for 1st event 7:47. Another TT up Howth is to be held on the 17th. June. As it is part of the club league it is only open to DWCC members.

manwithaplan

Ah! I thought the summit meant the top of the Head i.e. right at the church and on up to the top. The long way round isn't a proper climb at all.;)

lafors

I use to do that hill a lot, from my stats....
btw I count the top of the head as the shop with the Irish Times Sign on the side (at the top of the hill )

Takes me an average of 9min 38s (averaged over 5 runs, quickest & slowest removed)
Quickest 9min 02s
Slowest 12min 45s

Altitude gain is 114m (this is the average taken from my Nokia GPS & Garmin 705) Min was 110m, Max was 120m.

manwithaplan

You are right of course but the local lingo eluded me. The highest road point on Howth Head is up by the quarry on Windgate Road. I thought that was the summit (ie the top). I didn't realise that "the Summit" is actually on the lower road.

Consider me thoroughly disabused now.

Bluefoam

I used to do a regular loop of Howth when I lived on DNS. From Sutton Cross up past the cemetery left up to the summit/quarry. Then off road around the summit and down into the woods and out at Deer Park golf club. Its a really fun loop, but going up Howth hill is a killer on a full sus bike - particularly the last few hundred metres to the gate of the quarry...
Theres some really nice off road bits too, but not enough...

ten speed racer

amused2death wrote: »

Dublin Wheelers use the other side of Howth as part of their Club TT league. Start is across from St. Fintan's Primary School to the summit 3.7Km with best time for 1st event 7:47. Another TT up Howth is to be held on the 17th. June. As it is part of the club league it is only open to DWCC members.

It is also open to Swords members and others by invitation, which I think means, if you ask them, they will probably invite you.

kennyb3

Couple of questions for the better climbers amongst us:

1. How do you go about your hill training? I guess what i'm wondering is rather than just cycle a 2-3 loops of howth, would repeats be better?

And do you practice some climbs in higher geard and some in lower?

Also would you ever try go up such a hill totally out of the saddle or is this pointless? (i.e just thinking about training the slightly different muscles used out of the saddle)

2. When doing a hill TT, would you mash more than normal training or just keep spinning and would you spend much time out of the saddle? For example when i climb this particular hill i only get out of the saddle once - right at the end as i'd be afraid to fry the legs.

Any thoughts on hill training (i ve googled it obviously but interested to hear boardsie thoughts) appreciated. trying to figure out best way of improving.

amused2death

What technique you use for climbing is influenced by many factors including your experience/level of fitness/power to weight ratio and also the difficulty and length of the climb. The Howth climb from the long side has a relatively consistent gradent while it does vary it still allows the rider to maintain a good constent tempo. Howth is an excellent climb to practice on and develop your climbing skills. Humping a higher gear with lower cadence will simply fatigue muscles sooner and will not result in development of lung capacity or heart efficency, which is essential for a good climber.
Excess body weight particularly fat has a profoundly negative effect on climbing ability. The more mass you have the more energy required to carry it up a hill.

baap86

Hi!
Oh my God, i'm so glad I found this thread! I desperately need some help/advice/guidance! (Please excuse my lack of lingo and technical knowledge)
I'm cycling from Dublin to Paris in less than 4 weeks time and so I'm currently in training; I bought my first ever bike 11 weeks ago. I have NO idea what's considered good, normal, bad, average etc.
On the flat I'm averaging 20-22km over a 3 hour cycle. I can hold 25km for a good hour or so but then tire and can sprint up in the high 30s. Like I say, I have no idea if this is good or bad.

HOWEVER, I really and truly and completely SUCK when it comes to hills.
I do Howth head x2 every weekend. Starting from Sutton Cross and up to the summit (Irish Times shop), then back down and up again. It takes me (from just before the graveyard) 22 minutes to get to the top. The first part, up by the graveyard is the bit that kills me the most.
I used to drop down to gears 1 (biggest wheel on front cog) and 2 (on back cog) but I find that I haven't the energy to keep up that cadence and I start to wobble. (this used to take me 25 minutes)
Last week I went up in gears 2 (on front) and 3 (on back) and although my cadence dropped to about 50 I did find it slightly easier.
I only ever go up in the saddle, never standing.

Part of the cycle to Paris involves Enniskerry to Roundwood. I have attempted that route once and my crapness on the hills was completely soul destroying and the fear of it is really stressing me out.

Any and all advice you can give me about how to improve on hills, or in general, or anything at all would be much appreciated!!

(apologies for hijacking and jumping in without introductions)

Oh, and I'm cycling a Trek 7.2 Hybrid

07Lapierre

baap86 wrote: »

Hi!
Oh my God, i'm so glad I found this thread! I desperately need some help/advice/guidance! (Please excuse my lack of lingo and technical knowledge)
I'm cycling from Dublin to Paris in less than 4 weeks time and so I'm currently in training; I bought my first ever bike 11 weeks ago. I have NO idea what's considered good, normal, bad, average etc.
On the flat I'm averaging 20-22km over a 3 hour cycle. I can hold 25km for a good hour or so but then tire and can sprint up in the high 30s. Like I say, I have no idea if this is good or bad.

HOWEVER, I really and truly and completely SUCK when it comes to hills.
I do Howth head x2 every weekend. Starting from Sutton Cross and up to the summit (Irish Times shop), then back down and up again. It takes me (from just before the graveyard) 22 minutes to get to the top. The first part, up by the graveyard is the bit that kills me the most.
I used to drop down to gears 1 (biggest wheel on front cog) and 2 (on back cog) but I find that I haven't the energy to keep up that cadence and I start to wobble. (this used to take me 25 minutes)
Last week I went up in gears 2 (on front) and 3 (on back) and although my cadence dropped to about 50 I did find it slightly easier.
I only ever go up in the saddle, never standing.

Part of the cycle to Paris involves Enniskerry to Roundwood. I have attempted that route once and my crapness on the hills was completely soul destroying and the fear of it is really stressing me out.

Any and all advice you can give me about how to improve on hills, or in general, or anything at all would be much appreciated!!

(apologies for hijacking and jumping in without introductions)

Oh, and I'm cycling a Trek 7.2 Hybrid

When going up hills you need to get the chain onto the Smallest "Cog" on the front (closest to the frame) and the Largest cog on the back cog ( cog on the rear wheel).

If you find your legs are spinning too much, then move the chain from the larges cog on the back to the next cog and try that.

amused2death

here is the results from the most recent Howth time trial held by the Dublin Wheelers CC.

http://www.dublinwheelers.com/viewpage.php?page_id=38

As far as I am aware the record for this climb (starting @ St. Fintan's primary school) is 7:13. set in 2009.

If you are training on howth you need to be using the smaller front chain ring and try turning as large a rear cog (the cogs with more teeth) as you are comfortable spining. While climbing the trick is to spin a gear at a cadence that balances your heart rate, breathing and leg muscle activity. As you get fitter you can drop your gear (smaller rear cog) but maintain or increase your cadence thus increasing your average speed. A cadence of 50 is relatively low putting more strain on your leg muslces and less activity for your heart and lungs. The "natural" response for new riders or inexperienced riders when climbing is to churn as big a gear as they can push. To change this response takes a little time and self discipline. Most racing/club cyclists learn this skill while out training with other experienced cyclists. Good luck with your trip

ryan_sherlock

amused2death wrote: »

As far as I am aware the record for this climb (starting @ St. Fintan's primary school) is 7:13. set in 2009.

Sounds like a boards hill climb TT should be held soon. Only rode up the climb once (on a recovery ride with a buddy) but would be interested to see how long I would take going full gas as a lot of the north side folk know the climb well.

Anyone got proper profile stats for it (more accurate than map my foo)?

Beasty

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

Sounds like a boards hill climb TT should be held soon.

Ahem ....

10m TT next (to give some of us of "larger" proportions a chance, although you will annihilate us on any course Ryan!)

Raam

Is this the detail you are looking for?

I think this is my fastest time.

amused2death

7:17, 7:13......This Climb is crying out for a sub 7 minutes........ But not from me at least not in 2010. but in the mean time personal bests are a great gauge of a true state of fitness. Holding a boards.ie Howth TT would be an attractive venture. The Hill of Howth to give it it's proper title is an under utilised amenity for time trials. There use to be two cycle clubs based there, the Howth CC and the Sutton Road Club both of which sadly have disappeared. Aside from the Dublin Wheelers CC I don't know if any other club uses it for time trials.

ryan_sherlock

I figure that I need to be doing an average of 30+ kmph - getting into aero land...

Raam

I did my time on my Spesh Allez. That was the week before last years National Hill Climbs. I'm sure you could knock a sizeable chunk out of that easily.

kennyb3

Id be up for this TT but at the end of the summer, still trying to bring my time down to something acceptable, currently just the wrong side of 10 but with a very heavy bike. would hope to get to 9mins at some stage, but anything lower is just mind boggling/out of my league.

PS thats some time RAAM, did you do that in the big ring?

Raam

I think I did the steep bit at the start in the small ring up until it goes down, the rest was big ring.

07Lapierre

Raam wrote: »

Is this the detail you are looking for?

I think this is my fastest time.

Where is the "Official" start/finish for this climb?

Raam

For the TT we did, start at the entrance to the football pitch, across from the school. Finish is across from the back wall of the shop at the top on the main road.

kennyb3

Raam wrote: »

For the TT we did, start at the entrance to the football pitch, across from the school. Finish is across from the back wall of the shop at the top on the main road.

I think thats pretty much what id do, i start at the 2nd of 3(or maybe only 2) bus stops so maybe a few metres early but unfortunately not enough to make any significant difference.

manwithaplan

I suspect I would need a calendar to measure my time but, seeing as I have a Spesh Allez, I can't resist giving this a go some evening in the next week or so. It will be depressing interesting to see just how far off a decent standard I am.

tunney

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

I figure that I need to be doing an average of 30+ kmph - getting into aero land...

I know in the UK using discs for hill climbs is not uncommon, but more for the extra stiffness (solid discs not the new style ones)

Lumen

Not sure my maths is correct, but I think RAAM's chart suggests only about 850 VAM/hr for 7 minutes, which is pretty low, suggesting that aero is a significant factor.

Leroy42

Times on Howth Hill can be very misleading as the wind really does play a factor in this climb. If the wind is against then a good time is really difficult and so it is hard to compare times from different days.

Hills like Stocking Lane etc do not suffer to the same extent as they are more sheltered and of course slower average speed. To gauge yourself against others you really need to be on the same day.

Given that, of course looking at your average time will give you a good indication of where you fit into the overall. Anything under 9 minutes is very good, under 8 minutes is great, sub 7:30 is amazing quite frankly.

I remember years ago, 10 maybe, the junior tour of Ireland did a TT up it and from what I recall the winner did it in under 7 minutes, was roughly the same course.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

Not sure my maths is correct, but I think RAAM's chart suggests only about 850 VAM/hr for 7 minutes, which is pretty low, suggesting that aero is a significant factor.

Please turn that into English for me.

Raam

I totally agree with the wind assessment. Some days I go considerably slower for the same perceived effort. On a second running of the TT competition, everyone was slower than their previous time, bar one person who went a little faster the second time. It was generally agreed that the wind was much stronger than the last time.

manwithaplan

Just to get this right:

Raam

manwithaplan wrote: »

Just to get this right:

no, I'll get it for ya...

Raam

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

Please turn that into English for me.

VAM/hr = vertical ascent metres per hour, or just VAM for short

On steeper climbs the fastest cyclists can do well in excess of 1500 VAM, whereas I'd do about 1000 VAM.

As soon as the gradient drops, the VAM plummets because aero drag steals a lot of power.

Therefore, if you're climbing Howth at about 850 VAM, aero drag must be a factor, because I know how much faster you are than me.

Raam

Interesting. Some guys used skinsuits, tear drop helmets and aero bars. I must give it a go with the aero bars and new wheels, since I have none of the others.

tunney

Raam wrote: »

Interesting. Some guys used skinsuits, tear drop helmets and aero bars. I must give it a go with the aero bars and new wheels, since I have none of the others.

Do it b0ll0ck naked, not material flapping in the wind.

kennyb3

Raam wrote: »

Interesting. Some guys used skinsuits, tear drop helmets and aero bars. I must give it a go with the aero bars and new wheels, since I have none of the others.

you know what to do, the forum demands some additions to the credit card thread

Raam

tunney wrote: »

Do it b0ll0ck naked, not material flapping in the wind.

You do it.

tunney

Raam wrote: »

You do it.

Nah - I'd just get my lad stuck in the spokes and crash.

Bluefoam

tunney wrote: »

Nah - I'd just get my lad stuck in the spokes and crash.

Sounds like you're doing it wrong...

Ant

I'm still a bit confused about the exact end-point. Is this the Summit that's used in the time-trials? The next time I head out there, I wouldn't mind comparing my time against the serious cyclists.