[US/IRL] 6x15 - "Across The Sea" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

MisterAnarchy

3

mewso wrote: »

You could tell by Ye Olden Style clothes and american accents.

Well the trousers they were wearing certainly looked very stylish for a 2000 year old design .

RolandIRL

8

i could see a film being made:

The Devil Wears Boarskins

Handsome Bob

4

mewso wrote: »

The relgious crap (Mother says take this drink and drink from it - thud as subtlety hits my head) is the out for the writers here but they know at the same time that no matter what they do they will have a substantial amount of defenders on the interweb explaining it for them anyway.

I don't mind the religious stuff. I'm not religious but I enjoy the spiritual aspect of the show. Ab Aeterno is probably my favourite Lost episode. It's a nice change from your typical science-fiction show in the sense that for once not everything revolves around science.

The problem is, as I said, ambiguity. I think the writers know they have a very split fan base who either watch the show for the scientific or the spiritual aspect. Their awareness of this issue has been slowly bringing down the quality of the story. They don't want to commit to an overly scientific or spiritual end because they know either way, they'll face a **** storm from someone.

So what we are left with is a convoluted plot that is "open to interpretation" and where it could be a scientific answer, but it could be just as easily a spiritual answer. This is perfectly illustrated by the scene where their mother brings Jacob and MIB to the cave with the light. What's it all about? It could be, as you put it, hocus pocus stuff. However, as you also pointed out, it could be electromagnetism (sp?). I just find the ambiguity of it all absolutely awful.

It was an episode that was purely worth watching for the Jacob/MIB dynamic, but even there I am unhappy with how they fleshed out the character of Jacob; he's basically a blind follower and emotionally damaged because of his "mother's" preferential treatment of MIB. I mean how does Jacob get from that emotional weakness to the zen master Jacob we were originally introduced to? Gah, I'm getting angry again...

ToasterSparks

6

Had this episode occurred earlier in the season, or even last season, I'd have been delighted with it. It was a really good Lost-style episode, and it would have teased us for more revelations as Season 5/6 progressed. However, considering we are almost at the finale, it was atrocious. I mean, come on! Now is not the time to be creating more questions.

And as for some of the 'I'm pleased with the episode, why does everything need to be explained' argument .... really? I mean, really? The Lost writers must look at these type of forums and see the naive diehard Lost fans that actively don't seek answers, and laugh. You're making their job a lot easier. I'll admit, I'm not expecting answers to everything, but I definitely want some answers to the main things, like the Light (or electromagnetism or whatever) , the Smoke Monster, the ALT timeline etc.

Obviously no-one buys into that we-had-it-planned-from-the-start nonsense, right? I mean, apart from the fact Season 1 was standalone and plots were invented (supposedly, lol) afterwards, it's obvious that the writers sat down and came up with flimsy plots to explain earlier mysteries. You know, I could've lived with not knowing who Adam and Eve were, if it's at the expense of explaining some of the basic mysteries of the show. It's not enough to have a 'mysterious' Mother with no answers. If anything, its justifying the idea that even Jacob/MiB don't know why they're doing what they're doing either!


The darkUFO link on the last page was interesting. The believe-and-it-will-happen idea permeates The Third Policeman and links in well throughout the series. The writers aren't that clever though!

Claudia was the mother of Romulus and Remus, right? And the brothers kinda fell out and one killed the other (in one variation of the story). I can't help wondering if the writers are clicking 'Random Page' on Wikipedia and getting ideas that way!



Anyway, as an episode in it's own right, I gave it a 7. But in the context of just-before-the-finale, it's much lower.

Bob Z

Liber8or wrote: »

Was just thinking some more about this episode and came across a serious criticism.

The episode focussed a lot on the fact that MiB and Jacob can NOT leave the island.
And yet, Jacob left the island (possible on numerous occasions) to bring Jack, Kate, Sawyer, et al to it. This needs explanation unless Mother was lying all along.

I don't think they couldn't leave the island I think she dirt want them to.

mackthefinger

6

Great Poll and really enjoyed this thread. Will miss reading these discussions once the show ends.

Had hoped for more of this episode, certainly didn't enjoy it as
much as 'Ab Aeterno'.

When the mother said ' questions only lead to more questions' a the
start of this episode my heart sank a little. There wasn't going to be
any definitive answers. I've always enjoyed the mythology and scientific
aspect of the show but couldn't care less now. I think the writers just
got in a bit too deep with those aspects and couldn't pull it all
together.

Looking forward to the last two episodes, to see what happens to the characters we've been following all these years.

ToniTuddle

6

How long does it take bones to completely decompose and wither away to nothing?

They are on a tropical island so heat and extreme temperatures should help along the situation!!

Yet the bones and clothes were still on them after couple of thousand years....

Know alot of you here are die hard fans and hate the flashback to season one. But I was happy enough with it as I had forgotten, probably would have remembered at some point but still. If they had have keep the flashback to just a snippet I would have been happier.

Felt they could have thrown in a bit more into the episode but I did like it.

Not singling you out Mr.Incognito but only got up as far as page 10 and there is waaaay too many to keep going through. So I'm sorry if these points have been discussed already

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

-Mommy seemed delighted to get killed.

She was finally free from god knows how many years of being on the island. She also didn't age all that much/at all.

-Jacob can "bring people to the island" but it always ends the same?

That was explained, it always ends the same as people are greedy and manipulative.

-Water and light, great. Where have they been for five seasons.

Some other poster definitely covered the whole light aspect. With John seeing it and with the time travel. There have been references and flashes of light.

-Why can MIB see dead people and be special and Jacob can't.

Well why can Hurley see dead people and other folk can't?
Why can Miles talk to dead people to find out how they died!

Those things won't be explained. They are just there and that is that!

-Dharma, why didn't MIB or Jacob go fcuk with them. Jacob is supposed to be protecting the source and let a few hundred dudes turn up and get drilling. Great job there pal.

He let them come to the island.
He wanted to give them a chance to prove MiB wrong. That maybe not all people are greedy and bad.

-Why do all the candidates need to be together to get back to the island.

Because Jacob was still unsure of who would be the correct replacement.
That is kinda obvious aint it.

Why does Jacob need Richard as a go between.

That was explained in the episode surrounding Richards past.
Smokie or whatever you want to call it helped influence the people whenever they arrived. While Jacob didn't and he just sat back hoping they would see sense and do the right thing.

Then him and Richard decided that....Richard could be a go between possibly helping the people every now and again to get the to be good.



No matter what I am looking for to the finale and will not be looking at any ads or possible leaks or whatever crap. Want to watch it properly in peace and enjoy the end of what has been a pretty damn cool show.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Haha to the jokes , but seriously:

How do we know the "Across the Sea" episode was set 2000 years in the past? Where is this mentioned in the show?

jimbling

7

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It's a nice change from your typical science-fiction show in the sense that for once not everything revolves around science.

You obviously haven't watched BSG

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

Haha to the jokes , but seriously:

How do we know the "Across the Sea" episode was set 2000 years in the past? Where is this mentioned in the show?

I think it's due to the language being used. It was an older form of latin that was based in Roman times.

-Dharma, why didn't MIB or Jacob go fcuk with them. Jacob is supposed to be protecting the source and let a few hundred dudes turn up and get drilling. Great job there pal.

Well MIB and Jacob did go fcuk with them. In the end Jacob had them all killed. I mean this episode pretty much screamed that at you.
Basically protector of the island in this episode let the "bad" people live out there lives without any disturbance until they started getting close to the source of the island. Then she destroyed them.
Similar with Dharma, although Jacob seems to have let them get a hell of a lot closer before the purge.

opinion guy

5

ToniTuddle wrote: »

How long does it take bones to completely decompose and wither away to nothing?

They are on a tropical island so heat and extreme temperatures should help along the situation!!

Yet the bones and clothes were still on them after couple of thousand years....

Given that you can go to a natural history museum and see dinosaur bones 100million years old or more, 2000 year old bones seems easy no ?

Bard

6

To be honest, I thought that was an excellent recap and I find myself thoroughly agreeing with the vast majority of it.

ToniTuddle

6

opinion guy wrote: »

Given that you can go to a natural history museum and see dinosaur bones 100million years old or more, 2000 year old bones seems easy no ?

Good point

RolandIRL

8

2000 year old bones don't seem so far-fetched when you consider that they didn't age. that's bound to have some effect on their bones!

can't wait for the next episode.

Marcaiocht_Tonn

The "2000 years old" description is used right across the internet in differetn forums, opinion pieces etc. Surely not everyone's coming up with the same number from the fact that she spoke latin, wears ye olden clothing etc.!

Can anyone actually answer my question - where is this 2000 years old thing coming from? Was it every actually mentioned in the show?

claiva

7

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

The "2000 years old" description is used right across the internet in differetn forums, opinion pieces etc. Surely not everyone's coming up with the same number from the fact that she spoke latin, wears ye olden clothing etc.!

Can anyone actually answer my question - where is this 2000 years old thing coming from? Was it every actually mentioned in the show?

No it wasn't.
Next

Marcaiocht_Tonn

Haha cheers , so I guess we're estimating that it was 2000 years then.

dudeitshurley

2:38 onwards = Damon & Carlton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUwxLzrWJaw

uncleoswald

2

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

Can anyone actually answer my question - where is this 2000 years old thing coming from? Was it every actually mentioned in the show?

No it wasn't but I think its confirmed from the scripts. And a lot of the weaponry/clothes seemed to be Romanesque. I guess its interesting in that it means the Egyptian stuff predates even Jacob. Perhaps Mother is a stranded Egyptian or the Tawaret statue was built in her honour. Who knows?

prinz

uncleoswald wrote: »

No it wasn't but I think its confirmed from the scripts. And a lot of the weaponry/clothes seemed to be Romanesque. I guess its interesting in that it means the Egyptian stuff predates even Jacob. Perhaps Mother is a stranded Egyptian or the Tawaret statue was built in her honour. Who knows?

It would more than likely place the island somewhere in the mediterranean or thereabouts as opposed to the south pacific.

Psychedelic

9

uncleoswald wrote: »

No it wasn't but I think its confirmed from the scripts. And a lot of the weaponry/clothes seemed to be Romanesque. I guess its interesting in that it means the Egyptian stuff predates even Jacob. Perhaps Mother is a stranded Egyptian or the Tawaret statue was built in her honour. Who knows?

I think the Taweret statue was built after the events in this episode took place, because the statue was nowhere to be seen on the beach where it should have been. Also, in the statue there was a drawing/mural thing with depictions of the statue God and the smoke monster.

prinz

uncleoswald wrote: »

But the island moves.

I know that but at least it gives a connection the the latin, the Egyptian style stuff etc.

prinz

Psychedelic wrote: »

I think the Taweret statue was built after the events in this episode took place, because the statue was nowhere to be seen on the beach where it should have been.

I thought it showed an aerial/distance style shot of the beach at one stage but was deliberately short of where the statue would be. IIRC it showed one of the lads sitting on Jacobs log near the statue, but the way the shot was done the log was at the extreme left of the picture which would have left the statue just out of the picture. I was thinking to myself they are deliberately leaving it out of shot. Could be wrong.

uncleoswald

2

prinz wrote: »

It would more than likely place the island somewhere in the mediterranean or thereabouts as opposed to the south pacific.

But the island moves. (somehow deleted my origianl post)

prinz wrote: »

I know that but at least it gives a connection the the latin, the Egyptian style stuff etc.

True.

Psychedelic wrote: »

I think the Taweret statue was built after the events in this episode took place, because the statue was nowhere to be seen on the beach where it should have been. Also, in the statue there was a drawing/mural thing with depictions of the statue God and the smoke monster.

With my limited history knowledge I'm probably wrong but I didn't think the dates would match then.

jhegarty

What language was spoken at the start ?

Calibos

opinion guy wrote: »

Given that you can go to a natural history museum and see dinosaur bones 100million years old or more, 2000 year old bones seems easy no ?

No.

You aren't looking at dinosaur bones, you are looking at minerals that seeped into the sediment rock where the bones were and replaced the bones. Think of it like making bronze statues. The bone is the original statue, you wrap it in plaster/sedimentary rock to take a mold, the bone disolves away/you take off the plaster, and refil the mold with bronze to make your replica. The dinosaur 'bones' are naturally occuring replicas. Ironically, because these things are so valuable, the real thing is kept in storage, and the musuems are actually displaying modern artificial molds of the ancient natural molds of the original bones....if ya get me.

The clothes surviving in a moist climate is unrealistic for Jacks 50 year decomposition estimate never mind 2000 years. It doesn't work on any level as it stands. Had it just been bones with no clothes it could have worked, but only in terms of coming full circle and referencing a S1 episode, it in no way proves they knew what they were doing. If they wanted to deal with the adam and eve mystery, they should have done it back at the end of the time jumps and had it be Rose and Bernards skeletons after them getting stuck in the 50's which would have matched Jacks 50 year decomp comment and that actually might have convinced me it was all planned out from the beginning.

opinion guy

5

Yeah I knew the dinosaur bones thing wasn't entirely accurate. But you do find really old actual bones sometimes. Finding 2000 year old bones is not that unrealistic. OK in the context of smoke monsters, caves of ight and immortality its positively sensible. Agree with you on the fabrics int he moist environment.

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

The "2000 years old" description is used right across the internet in differetn forums, opinion pieces etc. Surely not everyone's coming up with the same number from the fact that she spoke latin, wears ye olden clothing etc.!

Can anyone actually answer my question - where is this 2000 years old thing coming from? Was it every actually mentioned in the show?

I think it came from the producers in an interview.

prinz wrote: »

It would more than likely place the island somewhere in the mediterranean or thereabouts as opposed to the south pacific.

Yeah this bugs me too. THere shoudl at least be a few poylneisans ont he island. Everyone on their is european it seems

ToniTuddle

6

Calibos wrote: »

If they wanted to deal with the adam and eve mystery, they should have done it back at the end of the time jumps and had it be Rose and Bernards skeletons after them getting stuck in the 50's which would have matched Jacks 50 year decomp comment and that actually might have convinced me it was all planned out from the beginning.

Now there is something!

I did miss the odd episode
What ever happened to them or why are they missing currently?

Psychedelic

9

Psychedelic wrote:

I think the Taweret statue was built after the events in this episode took place, because the statue was nowhere to be seen on the beach where it should have been. Also, in the statue there was a drawing/mural thing with depictions of the statue God and the smoke monster.

prinz wrote:

I thought it showed an aerial/distance style shot of the beach at one stage but was deliberately short of where the statue would be. IIRC it showed one of the lads sitting on Jacobs log near the statue, but the way the shot was done the log was at the extreme left of the picture which would have left the statue just out of the picture. I was thinking to myself they are deliberately leaving it out of shot. Could be wrong.

uncleoswald wrote: »

With my limited history knowledge I'm probably wrong but I didn't think the dates would match then.

Actually you are probably right that the statue was there already. Ancient Egyptians lived from about 3000 BC to 300 BC, and this episode took place some time around late BC or early AD. That would seem to suggest that the Egyptian people on the island depicted an earlier version of the smoke monster in their Taweret statue. I suppose how else would Mother know about what happened when someone goes into the bright light cave it's a fate worse than death, unless she saw it happen to someone else.

Another thought that occurred to me is, what would have happened to the MiB if he went into the cave alive, would he still have turned into the smoke monster, or would something else have happened?

anotherlostie

4

Maybe the magic light/ electromagnetism has restorative powers on fabrics?;)

Total split at work over this episode, as here. Some loved it, some were very disappointed with it.

opinion guy

5

anotherlostie wrote: »

Maybe the magic light/ electromagnetism has restorative powers on fabrics?;)

lol that must be it