[US/IRL] 6x15 - "Across The Sea" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Dman001 · 14-05-2010 12:55am

prinz wrote: »

We've yet to see Jacob and his "brother/smokie" come face to face. I am going to hazard a guess and say they're going to meet and Jacob challenges his brother to a game. Looks to me like Jacob always lost the boardgame because his brother made up the rules.

I'm guessing they meet again and this time Jacob challeges him to a real 'game' with his rules in one of the last episodes.

And MIB didn't kill Jacob. He got Ben to do it.

Oh yes I forgot it was Ben who killed him. Will Jacob and MiB come face to face now that Jacob's dead, although we now know MiB can see dead people.

hightower1 · 14-05-2010 1:13am

opinion guy wrote: »

ARRHGHGHGHG dear lord I can't take it anymore!!!!!!

Electromagnetism DOES NOT HAVE MAGICAL POWERS. It is responsible for electricity, magnetism, light, radio waves, microwaves gamma rays etc. Its what attracts opposite charges and repels like charges. It does not - make a weird transportable island, bring people back from the dead, create smoke monsters, cause polar bears to evolve in the tropics, create timetravel (hmmm....well that ones debatable depending on how gravity might relate to electromagnetism in a theory of everything....but I digress), it does not transport people to the desert, cause people to heal quicker, cause pregnant women to lose their babies (HEY what happened to this ?).

In this reality we obey the laws of quantum-electro-chromodynamics!!!!!!

Who said it was electromagnetism causing the events on the island? How do you know the EM fields are not a consequence of the magic light cave (as stupid as that name sounds)

Also, the polar bears didnt evolve there, the dharma initiative were performing experiments including zooligy work... they were test subjects kept in the cages. Remember tom says to sayer when he figured the fish cakes "the bears did it in 2 hours"

opinion guy · 14-05-2010 1:16am

5

hightower1 wrote: »

Who said it was electromagnetism causing the events on the island? How do you know the EM fields are not a consequence of the magic light cave (as stupid as that name sounds)

Also, the polar bears didnt evolve there, the dharma initiative were performing experiments including zooligy work... they were test subjects kept in the cages. Remember tom says to sayer when he figured the fish cakes "the bears did it in 2 hours"

Really sarcasm appreciation deficieny seems to be rife tonight....:rolleyes:

prinz · 14-05-2010 1:19am

Dman001 wrote: »

Oh yes I forgot it was Ben who killed him. Will Jacob and MiB come face to face now that Jacob's dead, although we now know MiB can see dead people.

I reckon there'll be another flashback to the time of this episode, after Jacob has left the two bodies and he'll meet smokie/mib and go through the gamerules.

RolandIRL · 14-05-2010 1:20am

8

opinion guy wrote: »

Really sarcasm appreciation deficieny seems to be rife tonight....:rolleyes:

maybe if you put in some smiley's, we'd be able to tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

sarcasm doesn't really translate that well onto the internet without smileys.

:pac::cool::P:confused::eek::mad::):rolleyes::o:p;):D
now can you tell i'm being sarcastic?

better go to bed now. getting too tired to type....................

uncleoswald · 14-05-2010 1:37am

2

I can't believe there are people on here now demanding to know who "Mother" is and how exactly the cave made The Smoke Monster, it makes me want to bash my head off the wall. I think its the endless demand to have everything explained that has led us to a rubbish episode like this. I really think they could have found a way to tell us all this without a Flashback episode, it was so unnecessary. I hope that is the end to the mythology of the island, please I don't think I could take anymore "answers". Do they want to explain everything or don't they? If they don't, like they say, then why give us the guff about the wheel? Why have this episode at all?

I have liked the Jacob & MiB scenes in previous episodes, they had an epic feel to them, but this episode just pissed it all away. That was probably the main problem with it, it was just dull. And Lost has never been so predictable. I can't think of a single plot point in it that wasn't sign posted.

Why did they say that the Adam & Eve reveal would show that they had it all planned (I notice in the flashback they left out the line about the bodies been there for about 40yrs.) Where they just having a laugh? Do they think we are idiots?

Psychedelic wrote: »

I've never seen people so angry and upset.

At least half the people in this thread:

I notice a lot of the people who gave out loads about the Flashsideways earlier in the season loved this "mythology" episode. Well you's can keep it and now its our turn to moan

Irish Guitarist · 14-05-2010 2:36am

So this all started because a woman murdered another woman and stole her kids and because there's a weird light under the island.

Why did Jacob think his 'mother' loved his brother more than him when she didn't even bother naming him?!

I wish there was minus ratings here. I'd love to rate that -10. I'm starting to wish I had stopped watching at the end of series one and made up my own ending.

Royale with Cheese · 14-05-2010 2:38am

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I'm starting to wish I had stopped watching at the end of series one and made up my own ending.

Yeah that probably would have been better. My ending would have involved Kate, naked. I guarantee that will be way better than whatever shíte we're given in 2 weeks.

dudeitshurley · 14-05-2010 2:56am

uncleoswald wrote: »

I can't believe there are people on here now demanding to know who "Mother" is and how exactly the cave made The Smoke Monster, it makes me want to bash my head off the wall. I think its the endless demand to have everything explained that has led us to a rubbish episode like this.

This cant be for real!! ;p Endless demand for answers led us to this episode???? Have you ever listened to a Darlton interview? It's rare for them to go a single interview without referencing The Sopranos ending and they always ALWAYS say they are executing the show as they see fit NOT caving in to fans or forums.

No, if people believe this is a rubbish episode (as i do) it's nothing to do with a demand for answers, it's due to the lack of foresight to have plausible answers for the bajillion mysteries introduced. Even as a make-it-up-as-you-go story, there were surely better ways to tie it all in to make it plausible.

As for "demanding to know" who the Mother is and how the cave created the smoke monster.... i mean COME ON!!!!! The writers have put themselves in a position BY CHOICE where a large portion of the end-game will revolve around MIB/Jacob mythology. MIB/Jacob, the whole thing, stems from their childhood with their mother. Wanting to know who she is and how she knew so much isn't exactly a big request. See this is another example of an abject failure by Darlton. People wouldnt be looking for any details had they executed the episode by providing some. Personally i'm not looking for much, 1 minute of screen time on a coherent basis of her story. She spent about 6 mins of screen time weaving **** FFS!!!

As for the Black Smoke and how the magic cave created it; (the magic cave we've never seen or even been alluded to in all 6 seasons btw), yeah i don't think it's too much to get some sci-fi explanation for it. Of course it can't be explained by science but again some coherent fantasy explanation would be ok. For me "its a magic cave that creates smoke monsters, deal with it" is not good enough. LOTR had a lot of supernatural fantasy elements but structurally was easy to follow and easy to swallow. This is not.

They chose to introduce these things so late, all im asking and expecting is that they make it coherent on any level whether its science, fantasy, magic, whatever.

TheCardHolder · 14-05-2010 3:57am

Interesting take on the episode:

http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/05/things-i-noticed-across-sea-by-vozzek69.html#more

c montgomery · 14-05-2010 4:02am

One the worst episodes i have ever seen!!

This is mainly because it comes so late in the season and it left so many questions unanswered.

So who built the lighthouse, the many temples, the statue knocked down by the black rock.

Who is the woman who rased jacob and mib.

WTF is the light

How did sayid come back to life

how did ben summon the smoke monster. i know he pulled the stopper of a plughole but why did this summon smokey?

Why d fuc* did they waste so much time this season on flash sideways and then leave so many fundamental questions unanswered.

Was jacobs and mibs mother a smoke monster too. How else could she destroy a village, pull mib up a ladder and destroy the well all in 10 minutes.

Is there anything in the fact that mib has only been refered to as brother in the episode and that desmond refers to everyone he meets for the first time as brother.

I loved lost until this episode, now i feel ripped off.

ashyle · 14-05-2010 4:42am

8

Wow that's a seriously opinionated opinion poll!

Thought it was a pretty solid episode. I liked the answers given and the mythology of it. It says a lot about a show that it can feature none of the main cast for 45 mins and still have me hooked! If any other character-heavy show pulled that I'd be raging, but it works for Lost.

I must say though me and my sister were going mad over them not using MIBs name. I think it's something embarrassing like Duane or Ken. That can be the only reason for witholding it at this late stage.

Only two weeks left. Eek. What will we live for watch instead?

Mackman · 14-05-2010 6:23am

7

Aw man, i reached the end of the thread

good read.

I enjoyed the episode, it answered a lot of my questions. Ive watched Lost from the start and ive learned to take everything in it with a pinch of salt. So the thing they're protecting is a light in a cave. so what? if thats what it is, thats what it is.

I dont see the big deal about having to know the meaning behind every little detail. Im happy to watch it for what it is and enjoy the ride.

C'mon, its not Arthur C. Clarke thats writing the thing

Mr E · 14-05-2010 8:15am

8

I loved it.

After reading the first page of this thread on Wednesday morning (comments from the late nighters watching it as soon as it came out), I thought it would be awful. I actually held off on watching it.

I thought it was a great story to flesh out the mythology of the show.

On a side note, I have never ever ever seen a poll as divisive as the one for this episode. Wow....

joe123 · 14-05-2010 8:42am

Psychedelic wrote: »

MiB said he knows this because he is special. He also said the people on the island had very interesting ideas what to do with the light. But we know anyway that by turning the wheel you get transported off the island. Does it really matter how MiB just somehow knew this?

Oh come on thats a cop out if I ever saw one.

Writers of lost in a room...

writer 1: Ok so how are we going incorporate the whole wheel turning/get off the island thing?

writer 2: Ummm we could say that emmm MIB knows this because.....because hes special yeah thats it.....and that the village folk have lovely ideas about light,water and wheel turning and that whole malarky. You cant beat a good wheel turning and magical light story.

writer 3: Love it. Thats that solved then

writer 1: But wont the fans want a better explanation of how to get off the island or how the wheel was invented?

writer 3: No they will accept that MIB is special and knows that light+wheel+ a good wheel turn always gets people where they want to go.

Writer 1: You know what guys, we really do write some stupid **** sometimes!

The writers then proceed to laugh heartily into the night.

Giving us answers like these is the exact same as saying that the smoke monster is there because its magic. Seriously can you imagine someone in a village going "yeah guys, I think stuff can be moved if you have a wheel,some light and some water."

Teddy Daniels · 14-05-2010 9:17am

prinz wrote: »

I reckon there'll be another flashback to the time of this episode, after Jacob has left the two bodies and he'll meet smokie/mib and go through the gamerules.

It this episode mib said "make up your own game then you can make the rules"
so i think that mib is smokey and that he and Jacob are playing a game by Jacobs rules. Kinda like the devil and god in bedazzeled.

I don't think the rules are like laws of physics more like rules of the game with Jacob both a player and a ref.

I strongly believe they have changed direction between this season and the third.

Btw the polar bear arrived it didn't evolve there or there'd be loads of them hat I don't get is where the statue and the temple came from were they there in that ep or built after because they carry Egyptian motifs from a couple of k bc

Spiritoftheseventies · 14-05-2010 9:27am

6

Locke playing backgammon in one of the very scenes seems to be very significant given what happened last night.

uncleoswald · 14-05-2010 9:38am

2

dudeitshurley wrote: »

This cant be for real!! ;p Endless demand for answers led us to this episode???? Have you ever listened to a Darlton interview? It's rare for them to go a single interview without referencing The Sopranos ending and they always ALWAYS say they are executing the show as they see fit NOT caving in to fans or forums.

Yes I have listened to Darlton interviews in which they say they wont pander to fans demands but as with saying the Adam & Eve's would show they had it planned from the start I think he was lying to us or, more likely, himself. Didn't they say the only reason for the time travel was because fans wanted to see more of the history of the island so they came up with that idea? That's pandering to fans. Showing us how the statue was destroyed was certainly pandering to the fans. It was far more interesting having this history alluded to then shown.

No, if people believe this is a rubbish episode (as i do) it's nothing to do with a demand for answers, it's due to the lack of foresight to have plausible answers for the bajillion mysteries introduced. Even as a make-it-up-as-you-go story, there were surely better ways to tie it all in to make it plausible.

I'll agree that they are terrible at writing sci-fi and fantasy (oh god remember the pendulum thing and saying that things had to be a little bit the same on the plane for them to get back to the island....) And that is why they should steer clear of episodes like this and leave it as a mystery. But If they have do a make-it-up-as-you-go-along then its going to have to be exciting as hell like last weeks episode was and this most definitely wasn't.

And the ONE thing that could have salvaged this episode would have been a conclusion as to who we should be rooting for. Why Jacob is the better choice then MiB. I like Jacob but I still think Jack should tell him to stuff it.

And was that Wheel explanation about the light and water just thrown in as an explanation as to why MiB can't use the wheel, because it envolves water?

FredBloggs · 14-05-2010 9:42am

4

joe123 wrote: »

Oh come on thats a cop out if I ever saw one.

Writers of lost in a room...

writer 1: Ok so how are we going incorporate the whole wheel turning/get off the island thing?

writer 2: Ummm we could say that emmm MIB knows this because.....because hes special yeah thats it.....and that the village folk have lovely ideas about light,water and wheel turning and that whole malarky. You cant beat a good wheel turning and magical light story.

writer 3: Love it. Thats that solved then

writer 1: But wont the fans want a better explanation of how to get off the island or how the wheel was invented?

writer 3: No they will accept that MIB is special and knows that light+wheel+ a good wheel turn always gets people where they want to go.

Writer 1: You know what guys, we really do write some stupid **** sometimes!

The writers then proceed to laugh heartily into the night.

Giving us answers like these is the exact same as saying that the smoke monster is there because its magic. Seriously can you imagine someone in a village going "yeah guys, I think stuff can be moved if you have a wheel,some light and some water."

I agree with you entirely - it struck me watching it what a lame explanation it was. Like the writers said "Jeez guys we're running out of time we'd better start explaining a few things. Lets start with the whispers - lets say that's dead people. We can bring Michael back for that. And the donkey wheel? Let's say MIB has special abilities and these people he hooks up with thousands of years ago have some "interesting ideas". Yeah the fans will buy that! And the losties being shot in the boat as they flashed through time? Who was following them? Crap! I didn't think of that one. Lets leave that as an unexplained mystery!"

Spiritoftheseventies · 14-05-2010 9:43am

6

What annoys me is the sloppiness of some of the storylines. The time travel water light thing hasnt been explained at all well and shouldnn't have been introduced into the plot.

tubos · 14-05-2010 9:47am

8

Mackman wrote: »

Aw man, i reached the end of the thread good read.

I enjoyed the episode, it answered a lot of my questions. Ive watched Lost from the start and ive learned to take everything in it with a pinch of salt. So the thing they're protecting is a light in a cave. so what? if thats what it is, thats what it is.

I dont see the big deal about having to know the meaning behind every little detail. Im happy to watch it for what it is and enjoy the ride.

C'mon, its not Arthur C. Clarke thats writing the thing

totally agree. Do we need to know what the light is? So far none of the characters on the show actually knwo what it is, so why should we?

I had read the thread before watching the episode (first time to do this) and wasn't expecting much, but I thought it was excellent and really did clear up a lot of things for me. When we are given answers to some things I kinda feel a bit let down that the mystery is not there anymore! like the whole thing with the whispers in a previous episode, did it ever need to be answered, I think it would have been better if it wasn't answered.

There were lots of interesting things touched upon in this episode. I really got the feeling of relief in Jacobs fake mother when she delivered the baby for his real mother. It was as if this was the answer to her prayers, somebody she could one day pass on the job of protecting the light. And then when the next baby came it was as if this was a spanner in the works, she knew she could only pass it on to one of them and this was going to cause issues in their relationships, and it did.

prinz · 14-05-2010 9:59am

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

It this episode mib said "make up your own game then you can make the rules"
so i think that mib is smokey and that he and Jacob are playing a game by Jacobs rules. Kinda like the devil and god in bedazzeled.

Yep, but there has to be some time when they sit down and go through Jacob's rules so everyone knows what they are. We have heard the kids in the jungle saying things to flocke like 'you know the rules'.... 'you can't kill them' etc. IMO they are going to have to show how he knows the rules and what exactly they are.

tubos wrote: »

There were lots of interesting things touched upon in this episode. I really got the feeling of relief in Jacobs fake mother when she delivered the baby for his real mother. It was as if this was the answer to her prayers, somebody she could one day pass on the job of protecting the light. And then when the next baby came it was as if this was a spanner in the works, she knew she could only pass it on to one of them and this was going to cause issues in their relationships, and it did.

+1 add to that she seemed to be relieved when she was dying too. Like 'my work here is done, let me go' kind of way, as she too was escaping the confines of the island by dying. I think that's perhaps why Jacob allowed himself to be killed by Ben, he already has his candidate in place so his role was over.

Spiritoftheseventies · 14-05-2010 10:24am

6

Was it just me or do jack and kate make the worst adam and eve pairing ever. Was embarrassing really.

opinion guy · 14-05-2010 10:27am

5

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

I strongly believe they have changed direction between this season and the third.

I have a theory on the direction of the whole. Its complicted so stay with m now, so stay with me, but I think it goes something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDi83T4wEf8

ISAW · 14-05-2010 10:36am

Sad Professor wrote: »

We already know that Jacob had certain powers. The power to make people immortal, etc.

Maybe that power only came from the bottle? you know the one Jacobs mother gave him and the one he used to explain the MiB to Ricardo? the one the MiB smashed after specking to Jacob on the log? Maybe he gave him a drink from it?

The whole episode seems to draw on social my this, Adam and Eve, Cain and Able, Calypso, Circe, Oedipus etc.

MIB's body is gone. He is no longer human. All that remains of him now is an extension of the energy beneath the island. As long as that energy is contained by the island, then so is MIB. Therefore, if MIB wants to leave, he has to kill the protector of the island and any potential replacement.

Calypso mitigates personal desire based on people's personal choice. In other words she continually convinces Ulysses to stay. Well come to think of it that is more Circe maybe
but the whole epic tale is already there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausinous
While stranded on Ogygia, Odysseus was forced to become the lover of Calypso. According to Hesiod, this union resulted in two sons, named Nausinous and Nausithous. Neither Nausinous nor his brother are mentioned in Homer's Odyssey.

Classical lore suggests some Greeks believed that Telemachus would later voyage to the island of Calypso and there marry his half-sister, the child of Calypso and Odysseus.

Seem familiar?

What the plot seems to be missing ( hopefully explained in the alternative universe what a collapse of it in later episodes) is how the earlier bunch of Jack's father and the Japenese guy from the temple ( the one whos "loved one " would be saved if he chose to come to the island) and the the earlier key characters relate or connect to each other and how the list of "candidates" was generated ( I would think) from predecessors. And is the predecessor list continually smaller originating with an Adam and Eve or is it an original group or pantheon.

I'm waiting for Bobby Ewing to come out of the shower now and realise it was all a dream

popebenny16 · 14-05-2010 10:37am

7

I liked the Irish angle to it: Mad Mammy favouring one boy over the other who seems a bit dim and repressed, then favourite son shaggs off and eventually kills her and dumb repressed one kills him in revenge and they finally are laid to rest together - John B. Keane could have written it

.

So.... Jacob threw his brother in the light where, according to their "mother" you will not die but something much worse will happen to you. So this resulted in the smoke monster getting loose (maybe it was trapped there?). So, am I right in thinking that the smoke monster is a entity in itself and not the brother just being able to turn into the smoke monster at will? In other words its the other way around - it can assume the identity if dead people like Locke and Jacobs brother and in the flashbacks we have seen so far Jacob has been talking to the smoke monster and not his brother? It also explains to me that odd moment Locke had this season when it looked like his own personality was coming through. The smoke monster maybe permated by Jacobs brothers desire to leave the island.

I actually felt sorry for both Jacob and his brother. We laso know that sometime the brother does get to build that wheel and create some way of getting out, but it is jacob who uses it. It seems to me that Jacob brings people to the island for his faith in people to be judged or maybe to find a replacement for him so he can die (like "the others") and that the smoke monster brings others (the latest being the dharma initiative) to create ways for him to get off.

Ok, you may find the water and the light idea a bit naff, but it was always going to be something and this something at least isnt inconsistant with the plot and the show as a whole.

popebenny16 · 14-05-2010 10:49am

7

c montgomery wrote: »

One the worst episodes i have ever seen!!

This is mainly because it comes so late in the season and it left so many questions unanswered.

So who built the lighthouse, the many temples, the statue knocked down by the black rock. prabaly smokemonster and those he brings to the island -going on the egyptian game and the outfits of the other people on the island this was several thousand years ago.

Who is the woman who rased jacob and mib. just some ramdom who washed up there according to herself. cant figure what language she was using, she could have been there also for hundreds if not thousands of years

WTF is the light dont know - some mad electromagnitic stuff? dharma seem to be better to explain it in our terms - in the eyes of the characters last night (who were latter iron age man dont forget) water/light would be all they could describe it as. see jacobs and his brothers reaction tyo magneticism

How did sayid come back to life dont know

how did ben summon the smoke monster. i know he pulled the stopper of a plughole but why did this summon smokey? because smokemonster, who can appear as dead people, was perhaps imprisoned there maybe by Jacob and Jacob had given the knowledge to do it to the leaders of his people like Mrs Widmore and then Ben?? (ok thats a stretch )

Why d fuc* did they waste so much time this season on flash sideways and then leave so many fundamental questions unanswered. because otherways this season would have been four episodes long

Was jacobs and mibs mother a smoke monster too. How else could she destroy a village, pull mib up a ladder and destroy the well all in 10 minutes. maybe she summonmed it?

Is there anything in the fact that mib has only been refered to as brother in the episode and that desmond refers to everyone he meets for the first time as brother. yeah noticed that too...... and smokemonster cannot kill desmond....

I loved lost until this episode, now i feel ripped off.

easier to put my replies in black. i dont feel ripped off, just have to go with the flow

jimbling · 14-05-2010 10:50am

7

TheCardHolder wrote: »

Interesting take on the episode:

http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/05/things-i-noticed-across-sea-by-vozzek69.html#more

That's actually pretty good. Don't agree with everything in it, but it's a pretty comprehensive breakdown.

Marcaiocht_Tonn · 14-05-2010 12:42pm

Stupid question, but I missed something - how is it we know that "Across the Sea" took place 2000 years in the past? When was that mentioned in the show?

mewso · 14-05-2010 12:44pm

4

Marcaiocht_Tonn wrote: »

Stupid question, but I missed something - how is it we know that "Across the Sea" took place 2000 years in the past? When was that mentioned in the show?

You could tell by Ye Olden Style clothes and american accents.

[US/IRL] 6x15 - "Across The Sea" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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[US/IRL] 6x15 - "Across The Sea" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]