SF now the largest political party in the north.

dlofnep

owenc wrote: »

england is in the uk which ni is in, the repulic of ireland isn't in the uk. I'm not bothered to argue with you btw.

Probably because your argument is ridiculous?

Tell me exactly - what the problem you have with Ruane living 7 miles away from her constituency is? How does it affect her ability to work on behalf of her constituents? Are you suggesting that anyone living in the south does not have the right to enter politics in the north?

owenc

karma_ wrote: »

yes, I'm surprised you do not know this.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/newsletternew/billy-leonards-journey-from-the-orange-order-to-sinn-fein-mla-14570661.html

ok, never heard of him because he wasn't in one of those banner things. Otherwise would never have known. Isn't the councillor gregory Campbell?

owenc

dlofnep wrote: »

Probably because your argument is ridiculous?

Tell me exactly - what the problem you have with Ruane living 7 miles away from her constituency is? How does it affect her ability to work on behalf of her constituents? Are you suggesting that anyone living in the south does not have the right to enter politics in the north?

Because as another poster said she is unfair to others it is just what sien fienn wants.

dlofnep

owenc wrote: »

Because as another poster said she is unfair to others it is just what sien fienn wants.

I asked you what your problem was with her living 7 miles away from her constituency was. Now, please answer the question asked of you.

karma_

owenc wrote: »

ok, never heard of him because he wasn't in one of those banner things. Otherwise would never have known. Isn't the councillor gregory Campbell?

Campbell is your government representative. Billy Leonard is on your local council.

owenc

dlofnep wrote: »

I asked you what your problem was with her living 7 miles away from her constituency was. Now, please answer the question asked of you.

Well if shes from here i have no problem, but if she isn't it does not matter but i'd rather have someone from here.

owenc

karma_ wrote: »

Campbell is your government representative. Billy Leonard is on your local council.

On the wikipedia it just says mp- gregory campbell.

dlofnep

owenc wrote: »

Well if shes from here i have no problem, but if she isn't it does not matter but i'd rather have someone from here.

That's utterly ridiculous, and prejudice.

karma_

owenc wrote: »

On the wikipedia it just says mp- gregory campbell.

You do understand the difference between a local council and your government minister?

karma_

meet your local council

http://www.colerainebc.gov.uk/show.php?id=290

I had no idea he had a doctorate also, impressive.

owenc

karma_ wrote: »

meet your local council

http://www.colerainebc.gov.uk/show.php?id=290

I had no idea he had a doctorate also, impressive.

I have no clue lol.. They live so close to me it's scary!:eek:

Can'tseeme

Jaap wrote: »

Who are these education experts that you say who have back Ruane's reforms???

And when is Catriona Ruane going to listen to the opinions of other parties in Northern Ireland and engage with what the whole of Northern Ireland wants...not just what she or even Sinn Fein wants!!! I thought Northern Ireland was about a shared society...sharing views!!!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/post-primary-selection/northern-ireland-parties-inch-towards-an-agreed-transfer-solution-14790536.html

I came from a working class protestant background...had parents who were unemployed for long periods...the 11+ was a gateway to a potential better working career through grammar school education...without it I probably would've went to a secondary school and achieved half the qualification I did get!!!

And I have no issues with Sinn Fein...I just think Catriona Ruane is useless in her job...she is an embarassment to NI politics...she scraps a system and replaces it with...what??? And she gets paid a substantial salary for this from the taxpayer???

I can't even believe you are defending her!!!

If you want to know what's replacing it, go on the deni website and find out. It clearly states the reforms which have been backed by the likes of Gerry Burns, Tony Gallagher of QUB and educational professor Alan Smith. There are plenty more academics that back her proposals if you'd watch and listen to the debates. The only ones against it funnily enough are
a) Grammar schools - who are only interested in maintaining their status b) Unionist parties (except the PUP to their credit) - Due to their conservative right wing, outdated attitudes to education and also wanting to take on a shinner and winning.

You talk about how well YOU have done with the 11+ when around Protestant working class areas it has absolutely failed kids.

Jaap

Can'tseeme wrote: »

If you want to know what's replacing it, go on the deni website and find out. It clearly states the reforms which have been backed by the likes of Gerry Burns, Tony Gallagher of QUB and educational professor Alan Smith. There are plenty more academics that back her proposals if you'd watch and listen to the debates. The only ones against it funnily enough are
a) Grammar schools - who are only interested in maintaining their status b) Unionist parties (except the PUP to their credit) - Due to their conservative right wing, outdated attitudes to education and also wanting to take on a shinner and winning.

You talk about how well YOU have done with the 11+ when around Protestant working class areas it has absolutely failed kids.

Probably 3 out of the many hundred academics support Catriona Ruane's proposals!!!
I have watched and listened to most debates over transfer from primary to secondary education...and it is not only Unionists who have a grievance against Mrs Ruane...did you not read the previous article I posted...even the SDLP are against Ruane's single-handed plan!!!
I have done well and I live in a protestant working class area all my life....still do!!!
Ruane has no support...I'm sure even some of her Sinn Fein colleagues think she is poor in her job!!!
I don't think many on this forum think she is good as a politician...except maybe you!!!
I have wasted enough time writing about a numpty like her!!!

dlofnep

There's no need to end every sentence in 3 exclamation marks buddy.

Now onto Ruane - The reasoning behind the abolition of the 11+ as I understand it was that, it specified at a very early age what a child should or should not be was detrimental to their confidence, and could define their path in life before a child even has the chance to get on their own 2 feet. It's perfectly valid to have a gripe with her abolition of the 11+, just as it's perfectly valid for the following groups to find merit in it.

DAVID SIMPSON, SAVE THE CHILDREN

Whatever debate now follows about the new transfer arrangements being proposed, Save the Children hopes that the scrapping of this high stakes examination will be generally welcomed by parents and all shades of political opinion.

In the interests of children due to take the final test next year, and those currently in P5, the widest possible consensus about the way forward needs to be reached as quickly as possible

VRIL HALL CALLAGHAN, ULSTER TEACHERS' UNION

At last we have a model which will take the province's schools forward, a model which will fit our children for the challenges of the world they will encounter in their future.

The concept of pupils choosing their paths - academic or vocational - at 14 has always been our central tenet and we would welcome the Minister's announcement.

These changes will at last put the child at the centre of the post-primary equation and end the educational apartheid which has blighted the lives of thousands in the past.

anymore

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Yes, that may be true. Doesn't change the fact that N Ireland's MP's have feck all irrelevance in it. You only have to look at the down turn in voting in the north of the last Westminster election to see that few people give a feck to take part in it!

and yes the north is a basketcase but it's one that London is going to have to look after for the forseeable future.

Surely you are aware of how much influence Norther Ireland MPs have been able to exercisein Westminster over the past 30 years or so ?

Jaap

dlofnep wrote: »

There's no need to end every sentence in 3 exclamation marks buddy.

Mate...I can put as many exclamation marks in as I like!!!!!!!!

karma_

anymore wrote: »

Surely you are aware of how much influence Norther Ireland MPs have been able to exercisein Westminster over the past 30 years or so ?

I'm fairly sure that NI MP's have not been able to influence things that much in Westminster over the past 30 odd years. All governments in power pretty much tend to do their own thing and believe me successive governments have cared little about NI during that time. If anything Unionist MP's were used by Tories and the SDLP used by Labour.

That's why it is good we now have some measure of our own government.

Baralis1

dlofnep wrote: »

Probably because your argument is ridiculous?

Tell me exactly - what the problem you have with Ruane living 7 miles away from her constituency is? How does it affect her ability to work on behalf of her constituents? Are you suggesting that anyone living in the south does not have the right to enter politics in the north?

Well I personally can't see the logic of someone involved in politics in a country not even living in that country herself. It doesn't matter how close to the border she is.

Also, I can't understand how political debate in NI seems to focus on the percentage of nationalists in the north being the only limiting factor to forming an All-Island nation. People seem to assume that the Republic of Ireland would welcome reunification with open arms. Remember, over 90% of the electorate voted to drop our claim on NI from the constitution, and Sinn Fein have only a small following down here as has been proved in election after election. I for one would not welcome reunification and all the sectarian problems in Northern Ireland being added to our own problems. Added to that, the emormous about of money being pumped in to NI by the rest of the UK would not be forthcoming from here. History is history at this stage and should be left there. Let NI stay in the UK or declare its own independance.

Can'tseeme

Jaap wrote: »

Probably 3 out of the many hundred academics support Catriona Ruane's proposals!!!
I have watched and listened to most debates over transfer from primary to secondary education...and it is not only Unionists who have a grievance against Mrs Ruane...did you not read the previous article I posted...even the SDLP are against Ruane's single-handed plan!!!
I have done well and I live in a protestant working class area all my life....still do!!!
Ruane has no support...I'm sure even some of her Sinn Fein colleagues think she is poor in her job!!!
I don't think many on this forum think she is good as a politician...except maybe you!!!
I have wasted enough time writing about a numpty like her!!!

What a terrible response that was.:rolleyes: The arguments for her reforms have been backed all the way, overwhelmingly by academics on education. This process didn't start with Ruane, it dates back to the Burns report, supported by the last Labour Government.

I'll agree that she's struggled to get consenus with other political parties. But that cannot be all her fault, the other parties have a responsiblity and have their own motives. SDLP do back the changes but imo have been playing politics with the situation. It certainly helped their vote in South Down.

It's easy just to criticise, call her a numpty and jump on the bandwagon with the Grammar schools and Unionists. But the fact is 11+ has absolutely failed working class Protestant areas for generations. Surely you should maybe question Unionist politicans and why they've failed the people that vote for them on this issue? But sure, stick you're head back in the sand, call the Shinner a numpty, you did ok through a Grammar school, well done. A grand total of 10 pupils from the Shankill Rd went to a Grammar school in 08/09.

Can'tseeme

anymore wrote: »

Surely you are aware of how much influence Norther Ireland MPs have been able to exercisein Westminster over the past 30 years or so ?

Feck all!!!

The SDLP were at 5% of debates in 5 years during the last term of office. Any of the major changes to the north have been done at Downing st and Hillsborough.

getz

the 11 plus exams are all well and good,if you believe that children develop at the same rate,but any expert will tell you they dont,in my view[and its only my view] grammer schools only benefit a small percentage of children,and not always the ones with the highest IQ

dlofnep

Baralis1 wrote: »

Well I personally can't see the logic of someone involved in politics in a country not even living in that country herself. It doesn't matter how close to the border she is.

So perhaps you might tell me how it affects her ability to work on behalf of her constituents. Afterall - if you can't see the logic in it, you should be able to explain exactly what, in a logical context affects her ability to work.

If you can't answer, I can only assume that your response is emotionally-driven.

mickeyrooo

Sinn Fein got 25.5% /171,942 and 5 seats
the DUP got 25.0% /168,216 and 8 seats
UCU-New Force 15.2%/102,361 and 0 seats
Alliance Party 6.3% / 42,762 and 1 seat

Im no maths expert but there seems to be some problem with votes cast and seat allocation...can someone explain?
is this because of the constituencies? Should people just vote for a party in general elections?

Nodin

mickeyrooo wrote: »

Im no maths expert but there seems to be some problem with votes cast and seat allocation...can someone explain?

It's the British 'first past the post' system. Hence the disparity between the Liberal Democracts and Labour (a 6% difference, yet a gap of 200 seats, approx).

Baralis1

dlofnep wrote: »

So perhaps you might tell me how it affects her ability to work on behalf of her constituents. Afterall - if you can't see the logic in it, you should be able to explain exactly what, in a logical context affects her ability to work.

If you can't answer, I can only assume that your response is emotionally-driven.

Practically I don't think it affects her ability to work for her constituents in the slightest. After all she is only over the road. There are plenty of politicians living a lot further away from their constituency. Its more the prinicipal of it I don't see the logic in as she actually lives in a different country to her constituents. That must be fairly unique. It means that she's not bound by the same taxes, laws etc and is not affected by the same government as the people she represents. I thought the whole idea of democracy was that people elect someone from within their community to represent them.

Baralis1

mickeyrooo wrote: »

Sinn Fein got 25.5% /171,942 and 5 seats
the DUP got 25.0% /168,216 and 8 seats
UCU-New Force 15.2%/102,361 and 0 seats
Alliance Party 6.3% / 42,762 and 1 seat

Im no maths expert but there seems to be some problem with votes cast and seat allocation...can someone explain?
is this because of the constituencies? Should people just vote for a party in general elections?

As Nodin said, this is because of the first past the post system, and in my opinion it is an undemocratic system in ways as it doesn't represent the make-up of the community. Basically it means that in each constituency, the canditate with the most votes wins the seat straight-off. There is only one seat in each constituency.
In practice this means that a party with a small percentage of the overall vote in the country could win a landside and form a majority government.

Just to give an extreme example: Say a party X runs for election in a country with maybe 15 political parties. Say all 15 parties run in each constituency and the population is pretty evenly divided between all 15 parties and all constituencies have a similar percentage breakdown. Say then that party X wins 10% of the vote in a majority of the constituencies and because of the first past the post system wins a majority the seats. Then you would have a situation where party X, representing just 10% of the electorate could form a majority government.

owenc

mickeyrooo wrote: »

Sinn Fein got 25.5% /171,942 and 5 seats
the DUP got 25.0% /168,216 and 8 seats
UCU-New Force 15.2%/102,361 and 0 seats
Alliance Party 6.3% / 42,762 and 1 seat

Im no maths expert but there seems to be some problem with votes cast and seat allocation...can someone explain?
is this because of the constituencies? Should people just vote for a party in general elections?

There were probably more nationalists voting this year than last year and more people overall.

dlofnep

Baralis1 wrote: »

Practically I don't think it affects her ability to work for her constituents in the slightest. After all she is only over the road. There are plenty of politicians living a lot further away from their constituency.

So it's really a non-issue, other than the fact that she might not be of your political corner.

dlofnep

owenc wrote: »

There were probably more nationalists voting this year than last year and more people overall.

Actually, there were less voters this year compared to the 2005 election. Time to find a new excuse.

owenc

dlofnep wrote: »

Actually, there were less voters this year compared to the 2005 election. Time to find a new excuse.

did i say i was using an excuse