SF now the largest political party in the north.

anymore

sceptre wrote: »

Given that all the nationalist/republican/SF/whatever-shade-of-green candidates elected in 1918 in Fermanagh and Tyrone except for Sean O'Mahony were also elected at the same time in other constituencies in what later became the Irish Free State/26 counties/whatever-yer-having-yerself he had good reason to not care but that probably wasn't your point and mine isn't intended to go off-topic...:)

This might also be the time to refer to Churchhill's reference to the dreary steeples of Fermanagh :
February 16, 1922
"The whole map of Europe has been changed ... but as the deluge subsides and the waters fall short we see the dreary steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone emerging once again."

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

If you wish to disagree with what was earlier stated on the matter, then quote the posts. Otherwise I'll presume this is some attempt to get the last word in.

Je**s, I have already quoted the post numbers, I'm outa this thread, bye.

SlabMurphy

anymore wrote: »

This might also be the time to refer to Churchhill's reference to the dreary steeples of Fermanagh :
February 16, 1922
"The whole map of Europe has been changed ... but as the deluge subsides and the waters fall short we see the dreary steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone emerging once again."

Well the fat windbag Churchill would know as he was one the main architects of the sectarian six county state. Typically British, engineer the injustice and thuggery - and then step back and blame the natives.

Can'tseeme

TommyT wrote: »

Like they did last tiime?
Politics in the South are slightly different to the North. The North is just a sectarian headcount, as witnessed in Fermanagh, South Tyrone. What policies did anyone standing in the North have? What were they going to do to bring jobs during the economic downturn? etc etc etc? The North is simply an Orange and Green scrap and that is why Sinn Fein and the DUP are doing so well.
Anything else is just bull****.

Those politicians have feck all influence at Westminster and therefore Westminster elections are becoming more and more irrelevant to the people of the north. We get our block grant and told to get on with it. The local assembly elections is where normal politics has a chance to be played.

anymore

SlabMurphy wrote: »

Well the fat windbag Churchill would know as he was one the main architects of the sectarian six county state. Typically British, engineer the injustice and thuggery - and then step back and blame the natives.

Could I reccomend an Irish windbag, if you are not happy reading the words of an english windbag - and no I dont mean Gerry Adams :
" Well, what a surprise. It never is. All republican violence in Ireland has failed in its aims. No one in 1916 wanted what we have today: a divided Anglophone island, with British rule in the North being implemented by one set of heirs to the Rising and limited self-government being implemented in Dublin by another set of heirs, within the most capitalist society in Europe "

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-all-republican-violence-has-failed-in-its-aims-no-one-in-1916-wanted-what-we-have-today-2184700.html

Can'tseeme

Jaap wrote: »

I know...Ruane getting rid of the 11 plus and replacing it with...what??? She hasn't a clue!!
Glad Margaret Richie defeated her!!!

Any academic on education that I've heard has backed Ruane on the reforms she's trying to make. She has obviously come up against tremendous opposition, funny it's the elitist Grammar schools, right wing Unionism, right wing press and the anti-SF Irish News!

She's in the process of doing away with an unfair, outdated elitist system to bring about a better form in which school kids move from Primary to Post Primary, were between the ages of 11 to 14 they plan a sensible development of which educational path the pupil would be suited to take. It works in other countries, who have shown a high standard of education to flourish. It's been a difficult battle for her but imo, the tide has started to turn.

SlabMurphy

anymore wrote: »

Could I reccomend an Irish windbag, if you are not happy reading the words of an english windbag - and no I dont mean Gerry Adams :
" Well, what a surprise. It never is. All republican violence in Ireland has failed in its aims. No one in 1916 wanted what we have today: a divided Anglophone island, with British rule in the North being implemented by one set of heirs to the Rising and limited self-government being implemented in Dublin by another set of heirs, within the most capitalist society in Europe "

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-all-republican-violence-has-failed-in-its-aims-no-one-in-1916-wanted-what-we-have-today-2184700.html

" Could I reccomend an Irish windbag, " - the author of the article is Kevin Myers who is from Leicester, England

anymore

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Those politicians have feck all influence at Westminster and therefore Westminster elections are becoming more and more irrelevant to the people of the north. We get our block grant and told to get on with it. The local assembly elections is where normal politics has a chance to be played.

Afraid you have it the wrong way around. Westmintser is a normal parliamentary assembly which has accounability. Stormont is merely the assembly which dispenses the charity that Wstminster votes to keep the basketcase that is Northern Ireland going. Lets call it charity rather than a blockgrant. € 6 billion a year to indulge the illusions that Northern ireland politicians have that they are really running Northern ireland.

anymore

SlabMurphy wrote: »

" Could I reccomend an Irish windbag, " - the author of the article is Kevin Myers who is from Leicester, England

Yes like millions of irish people, Kevin Myers was born in the UK.Remember the phrase ' the irish diaspora' ?

Can'tseeme

anymore wrote: »

Afraid you have it the wrong way around. Westmintser is a normal parliamentary assembly which has accounability. Stormont is merely the assembly which dispenses the charity that Wstminster votes to keep the basketcase that is Northern Ireland going. Lets call it charity rather than a blockgrant. € 6 billion a year to indulge the illusions that Northern ireland politicians have that they are really running Northern ireland.

Yes, that may be true. Doesn't change the fact that N Ireland's MP's have feck all irrelevance in it. You only have to look at the down turn in voting in the north of the last Westminster election to see that few people give a feck to take part in it!

and yes the north is a basketcase but it's one that London is going to have to look after for the forseeable future.

Jaap

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Any academic on education that I've heard has backed Ruane on the reforms she's trying to make. She has obviously come up against tremendous opposition, funny it's the elitist Grammar schools, right wing Unionism, right wing press and the anti-SF Irish News!

She's in the process of doing away with an unfair, outdated elitist system to bring about a better form in which school kids move from Primary to Post Primary, were between the ages of 11 to 14 they plan a sensible development of which educational path the pupil would be suited to take. It works in other countries, who have shown a high standard of education to flourish. It's been a difficult battle for her but imo, the tide has started to turn.

Northern Ireland I understand has one of the best education records in the UK...see this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8210887.stm
So the old system of the the 11+ stroke transfer procedure must've been doing something right for the A-Level students of last year...our students did better than those in England and Wales!!!
All parties in the Assembly (bar Sinn Fein) are in agreement that Mrs Ruane hasn't a clue what she is doing!!!
Look at Whitehouse PS in Newtownabbey...it was burnt down in an arson attack a year or so ago...Mrs Ruane appeared on the scene a few days later promising to rebuild the school and be the knight in shining armour...then only a few weeks ago she went back on her word and said it wasn't being rebuilt, putting in an awful interview on BBC Radio Ulster The Nolan Show...the school, parents and pupils have campaigned and now it is to be rebuilt as stated on Friday past...Catriona hasn't said boo since then...probably embarassed!!!
She is education minister and she takes her daughter on a trip abroad during term time
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/may/19/education-minister-daughter-unauthorised-holiday
As someone who comes from one of the worst areas in Belfast...the 11+ enabled me to go to a grammar school,get a degree and a decent graduate job...keep it and get rid of Mrs Ruane!
At least get some form of replacement...not leave parents of primary school children worrying about the move of their kids to secondary school...and what is happening!

Can'tseeme

Jaap wrote: »

Northern Ireland I understand has one of the best education records in the UK...see this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8210887.stm
So the old system of the the 11+ stroke transfer procedure must've been doing something right for the A-Level students of last year...our students did better than those in England and Wales!!!
All parties in the Assembly (bar Sinn Fein) are in agreement that Mrs Ruane hasn't a clue what she is doing!!!
Look at Whitehouse PS in Newtownabbey...it was burnt down in an arson attack a year or so ago...Mrs Ruane appeared on the scene a few days later promising to rebuild the school and be the knight in shining armour...then only a few weeks ago she went back on her word and said it wasn't being rebuilt, putting in an awful interview on BBC Radio Ulster The Nolan Show...the school, parents and pupils have campaigned and now it is to be rebuilt as stated on Friday past...Catriona hasn't said boo since then...probably embarassed!!!
She is education minister and she takes her daughter on a trip abroad during term time
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/may/19/education-minister-daughter-unauthorised-holiday
As someone who comes from one of the worst areas in Belfast...the 11+ enabled me to go to a grammar school,get a degree and a decent graduate job...keep it and get rid of Mrs Ruane!
At least get some form of replacement...not leave parents of primary school children worrying about the move of their kids to secondary school...and what is happening!

Who has mentioned doing away with high standards in education? Doing away with the transfer test has nothing to do with effecting academic excellence ffs. It's about helping pupils through the ages of 11 to 14 to decide which type of education is suitable for them from 14 onwards. For some that will be of a higher academic level than others. Rather than rush them through two tests at the age of 11 and parents clamoring over each other to get them into Grammar schools. Every educational expert has backed the reforms Ruane proposes, which you failed to acknowledge.

A Grammar school may have worked out nicely for you. But only a fool would fail to recognize that they're for the privileged few and not the many. Especially in working class loyalist areas in N Ireland.

The seperate issue on taking her child out of school I'm not going waste my time on. Regards to the funding for the rebuilding of the school, that was a matter of the budget being slashed and has been addressed since.

Btw, is your opinion on Catriona in anyway influenced by the fact she's a member of SF by any chance?

owenc

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Who has mentioned doing away with high standards in education? Doing away with the transfer test has nothing to do with effecting academic excellence ffs. It's about helping pupils through the ages of 11 to 14 to decide which type of education is suitable for them from 14 onwards. For some that will be of a higher academic level than others. Rather than rush them through two tests at the age of 11 and parents clamoring over each other to get them into Grammar schools. Every educational expert has backed the reforms Ruane proposes, which you failed to acknowledge.

A Grammar school may have worked out nicely for you. But only a fool would fail to recognize that they're for the privileged few and not the many. Especially in working class loyalist areas in N Ireland.

The seperate issue on taking her child out of school I'm not going waste my time on. Regards to the funding for the rebuilding of the school, that was a matter of the budget being slashed and has been addressed since.

Btw, is your opinion on Catriona in anyway influenced by the fact she's a member of SF by any chance?

Excuse me?? Don't say something if you don't have a clue. You can get into a grammar school with a grade not "privilages" a few c's will be accepted so its not all that hard to get into. But i'd like it that way as i don't want them losers (the chavs) out of the high school coming in and running my school down to their levels!! I mean that sounds stuck up but thats why they have their own school and we have ours. Oh and didn't i tell you lot that ni's education was the best in the uk and far better than down south!:P

owenc

Jaap wrote: »

Northern Ireland I understand has one of the best education records in the UK...see this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8210887.stm
So the old system of the the 11+ stroke transfer procedure must've been doing something right for the A-Level students of last year...our students did better than those in England and Wales!!!
All parties in the Assembly (bar Sinn Fein) are in agreement that Mrs Ruane hasn't a clue what she is doing!!!
Look at Whitehouse PS in Newtownabbey...it was burnt down in an arson attack a year or so ago...Mrs Ruane appeared on the scene a few days later promising to rebuild the school and be the knight in shining armour...then only a few weeks ago she went back on her word and said it wasn't being rebuilt, putting in an awful interview on BBC Radio Ulster The Nolan Show...the school, parents and pupils have campaigned and now it is to be rebuilt as stated on Friday past...Catriona hasn't said boo since then...probably embarassed!!!
She is education minister and she takes her daughter on a trip abroad during term time
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/may/19/education-minister-daughter-unauthorised-holiday
As someone who comes from one of the worst areas in Belfast...the 11+ enabled me to go to a grammar school,get a degree and a decent graduate job...keep it and get rid of Mrs Ruane!
At least get some form of replacement...not leave parents of primary school children worrying about the move of their kids to secondary school...and what is happening!

anoo isn't that girl ruanee ( or whatever) awful all she does is run down the education system, i would like someone from NI controlling it maybe they will have more sense.

karma_

owenc wrote: »

anoo isn't that girl ruanee ( or whatever) awful all she does is run down the education system, i would like someone from NI controlling it maybe they will have more sense.

She is from Northern Ireland?

I cannot really see the big issue of replacing teh 11 Plus. It's an outdated test and badly needs it. I sat the 11 plus in 1985 and it was outdated even then.

owenc

karma_ wrote: »

She is from Northern Ireland?

I cannot really see the big issue of replacing teh 11 Plus. It's an outdated test and badly needs it. I sat the 11 plus in 1985 and it was outdated even then.

no she LIVES down south, i don't see how she could get away with that?

dlofnep

owenc wrote: »

no she LIVES down south, i don't see how she could get away with that?

Perhaps because it (Carlingford) is only 7 miles away from south Down? What exactly is the problem?

karma_

owenc wrote: »

no she LIVES down south, i don't see how she could get away with that?

Owen Paterson lives in England, and is now the Secretary of State. Do you also object to this?

owenc

karma_ wrote: »

Owen Paterson lives in England, and is now the Secretary of State. Do you also object to this?

No because england is not a foreign country and he is from here, your just going to have to except that.

karma_

owenc wrote: »

No because england is not a foreign country and he is from here, your just going to have to except that.

He's English, born in England.

Jaap

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Who has mentioned doing away with high standards in education? Doing away with the transfer test has nothing to do with effecting academic excellence ffs. It's about helping pupils through the ages of 11 to 14 to decide which type of education is suitable for them from 14 onwards. For some that will be of a higher academic level than others. Rather than rush them through two tests at the age of 11 and parents clamoring over each other to get them into Grammar schools. Every educational expert has backed the reforms Ruane proposes, which you failed to acknowledge.

A Grammar school may have worked out nicely for you. But only a fool would fail to recognize that they're for the privileged few and not the many. Especially in working class loyalist areas in N Ireland.

The seperate issue on taking her child out of school I'm not going waste my time on. Regards to the funding for the rebuilding of the school, that was a matter of the budget being slashed and has been addressed since.

Btw, is your opinion on Catriona in anyway influenced by the fact she's a member of SF by any chance?

Who are these education experts that you say who have back Ruane's reforms???

And when is Catriona Ruane going to listen to the opinions of other parties in Northern Ireland and engage with what the whole of Northern Ireland wants...not just what she or even Sinn Fein wants!!! I thought Northern Ireland was about a shared society...sharing views!!!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/post-primary-selection/northern-ireland-parties-inch-towards-an-agreed-transfer-solution-14790536.html

I came from a working class protestant background...had parents who were unemployed for long periods...the 11+ was a gateway to a potential better working career through grammar school education...without it I probably would've went to a secondary school and achieved half the qualification I did get!!!

And I have no issues with Sinn Fein...I just think Catriona Ruane is useless in her job...she is an embarassment to NI politics...she scraps a system and replaces it with...what??? And she gets paid a substantial salary for this from the taxpayer???

I can't even believe you are defending her!!!

owenc

Jaap wrote: »

Who are these education experts that you say who have back Ruane's reforms???

And when is Catriona Ruane going to listen to the opinions of other parties in Northern Ireland and engage with what the whole of Northern Ireland wants...not just what she or even Sinn Fein wants!!! I thought Northern Ireland was about a shared society...sharing views!!!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/post-primary-selection/northern-ireland-parties-inch-towards-an-agreed-transfer-solution-14790536.html

I came from a working class protestant background...had parents who were unemployed for long periods...the 11+ was a gateway to a potential better working career through grammar school education...without it I probably would've went to a secondary school and achieved half the qualification I did get!!!

And I have no issues with Sinn Fein...I just think Catriona Ruane is useless in her job...she is an embarassment to NI politics...she scraps a system and replaces it with...what??? And she gets paid a substantial salary for this from the taxpayer???

I can't even believe you are defending her!!!

Yes agree with you there you seem very fair, unlike my history teacher.

karma_

owenc wrote: »

Yes agree with you there you seem very fair, unlike my history teacher. She made me very angry today.:mad: She needs to watch that mouth of hers. Apparently no catholics are unionist and my mother is catholic and is unionist and what about the other 30% of catholic unionists!! ****face! She shouted at someone for saying that see she was talking about different unionists and a wee boy said catholics, Protestants etc and she said good luck with that one. Shows how much knowledge people here have.

30% of Catholics are Unionists? That figure is way too high. I'm sure there are some Catholic Unionists but not as many as you think there are. I would also say that there are probably more Protestants who are Nationalist, I know a good few who are, including one who is hardcore Republican.

owenc

karma_ wrote: »

30% of Catholics are Unionists? That figure is way too high. I'm sure there are some Catholic Unionists but not as many as you think there are. I would also say that there are probably more Protestants who are Nationalist, I know a good few who are, including one who is hardcore Republican.

well whats 30% then im nearly sure something is?

karma_

By the way Owen, isn't one of your local Sinn Fein councillors a Protestant and former policeman?

karma_

owenc wrote: »

well whats 30% then im nearly sure something is?

No idea, I tried a quick Google search but nothing stood out.

Hopefully it is the % of Atheists in NI and it's growing.

dlofnep

owenc wrote: »

No because england is not a foreign country and he is from here, your just going to have to except that.

So your qualm with Ruane is that she lives 7 miles away from South Down, that just so happens to be across an invisible line - while meanwhile Owen Paterson who lives 400 miles away from the north - separated by a sea , in a complete different country is fine?

Brilliant logic. It's obviously not fueled by an agenda or anything.

owenc

dlofnep wrote: »

So your qualm with Ruane is that she lives 7 miles away from South Down, that just so happens to be across an invisible line - while meanwhile Owen Paterson who lives 400 miles away from the north - separated by a sea , in a complete different country is fine?

Brilliant logic. It's obviously not fueled by an agenda or anything.

england is in the uk which ni is in, the repulic of ireland isn't in the uk. I'm not bothered to argue with you btw.

owenc

karma_ wrote: »

By the way Owen, isn't one of your local Sinn Fein councillors a Protestant and former policeman?

were did you here this? can you show me i can't find anything.

karma_

owenc wrote: »

were did you here this? can you show me i can't find anything.

yes, I'm surprised you do not know this.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/newsletternew/billy-leonards-journey-from-the-orange-order-to-sinn-fein-mla-14570661.html