Dublin Bus Network Review

devnull

The 4 is twice the service of the 7. Waiting at O'Connell Street in the morning peak and in Ballsbridge in Evening peak and you will see that.....

angel01

murphaph wrote: »

Sums up what's wrong with Ireland to be honest.


No you don't. What gives you that idea. Where in God's name did this sense of entitlement in Irish people come from..."I'm entitled to a job and when I can't find one I'm entitled to x amount of dole etc. etc."


Parochial rubbish. The southside gets no special treatment wrt bus services.


Fine, but you are just one person. The majority who will benefit from a network reform should not suffer because of you. DB didn't make you live where you live.

So I have to move house because I have no other option of getting a bus. Dublin Bus have their slogan.. serving the entire community. Well that should go in the bin, so you don't think the likes of the 7 or 46A need cutting? geez, I see more of those bloody 46A's around town..

Oh yes, what do you suggest I do to get to my workplace? Walk??? Let me guess, you live on the southside

yes people are entitled to the dole, that is what you pay your money for taxes for

Cookie_Monster

Did the report look at anything to do with stop rationalisation at all anyone?

The situation as it exist currently is a bit silly, stops every 300m average.

a large %age of stops could be removed speeding up routes with minimal passenger impact, a few hundred metres walk at most.

Cookie_Monster

angel01 wrote: »

So I have to move house because I have no other option of getting a bus. Dublin Bus have their slogan.. serving the entire community. Well that should go in the bin, so you don't think the likes of the 7 or 46A need cutting? geez, I see more of those bloody 46A's around town..

Oh yes, what do you suggest I do to get to my workplace? Walk??? Let me guess, you live on the southside

yes people are entitled to the dole, that is what you pay your money for taxes for

the 7 was cut in the last round and the 46a is the most used service so obviously not going to cut it back, try getting on one a t rush hour mid route, its pretty difficult to find one not full

so the new route will be a few mins walk further from your house, hardly the end of the world is it?

angel01

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the 7 was cut and the 46a is the most used service so obviously not going to cut it back.

so the new route will be a few mins walk further from your house, hardly the end of the world is it?

No, the route I use now, is one of only 2 that go to my house/area so if they either cut it, or make the route longer, I will have no choice but to look to move somewhere else. I need this route to get me into town at a certain time, if that is cut/changed with, I will have to go elsewhere.

schemingbohemia

what bus service do you use? are you prepared to walk 500 metres to a stop with a new service that will probably get you to work in around the same time as you currently do?

with regard to the wheelchair user earlier in this thread or the other one, i would presume the 95 buses being phased out will take out most of the non-accessible buses so that virtually the whole fleet will be accessible.

loyatemu

glad to see some sort of network review - the existing network is an incomprehensible mess. But, indirect routing is only one of the reasons why DB is so horrible to use - there's also far too many stops, the cash fare system and lack of extra doors make stop dwell times ridiculously long, and obviously traffic and junctions cause problems too.

As for making the routes more direct here's what will happen.

1. DB introduces new route,
2. People living on the "bypassed" sections ring Joe Duffy.
3. "Jaysus Joe, dey can't be makin' d'old folks walk hunnerds o' yards t'be getting de bus"
4. Local politicians write to DB urging them to reinstate the old routing.
5. Old route reinstated.

devnull

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the 7 was cut in the last round and the 46a is the most used service so obviously not going to cut it back, try getting on one a t rush hour mid route, its pretty difficult to find one not full

so the new route will be a few mins walk further from your house, hardly the end of the world is it?

Some areas only have one route and are not on a QBC and are about half an hour walk away from any other routes but despite this carry lots of passengers and full loads on most peak services.

If you are one of these and you end up getting tagged onto a QBC route which takes 90 minutes to get into Town and your old bus took 60 minutes through non QBC's which was as direct as it could be with full loads would you be happy?

Cookie_Monster

angel01 wrote: »

No, the route I use now, is one of only 2 that go to my house/area so if they either cut it, or make the route longer, I will have no choice but to look to move somewhere else. I need this route to get me into town at a certain time, if that is cut/changed with, I will have to go elsewhere.

you could cycle

KC61

angel01 wrote: »

So I have to move house because I have no other option of getting a bus. Dublin Bus have their slogan.. serving the entire community. Well that should go in the bin, so you don't think the likes of the 7 or 46A need cutting? geez, I see more of those bloody 46A's around town..

Oh yes, what do you suggest I do to get to my workplace? Walk??? Let me guess, you live on the southside

yes people are entitled to the dole, that is what you pay your money for taxes for

I still say - wait and see exactly what is planned.

I am surmising that you use the 40D.

I would be amazed if that were to be cut - it is the primary route to the Blanchardstown Business Parks and Tyrellstown and is the most direct route.

What would be the sense in forcing people to go a longer route? That is not what the Deloitte report was about.

You are speculating wildly that it will be cut - why would it be? There are good loadings and it's a direct route.

Genuinely I think you are getting unnecessarily concerned.

lucernarian

devnull wrote: »

The 7 is a truly atrocious service, it's departure times seem not to be what is on it's timetable, but rather a few seconds after a 4 has pulled out in the mornings, which is highly annoying. Not all drivers do this, but it does happen a lot in the mornings which is highly frustrating when you see a 7 pull out 10 minutes before it's due because a 4 has gone past.

Yeah, I've heard of that old trick from a driver who I think had been recently marked-in on the 128 (but I'm not sure about that bit). Anyway when he started out in DB on other routes, it would be a common trick by some of the more experienced bus drivers to stay back and let the newbie go on ahead to deal with the busiest stops. The experienced fella take off a couple of minutes later and have a nice run of it until he caught up with the other bus outside of the city centre where there would be fewer passengers to take on anyway.

I really can't see drivers giving a ****e about real time bus information. Dublin Bus probably won't even be allowed assess staff performance with them! So I don't see how the rumoured proposals will benefit where I live in the slighest!

Cookie_Monster

devnull wrote: »

Some areas only have one route and are not on a QBC and are about half an hour walk away from any other routes but despite this carry lots of passengers and full loads on most peak services.

if these routes are viable then why would they be touched in fairness. I think they will see that where service like that exist there will be no need fro major changes to them

KC61

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Details-on-Proposed-Changes/

Details on Proposed Changes
Phase One of the Network Direct project will involve the redesign of services in the Blanchardstown, Lucan and Stillorgan areas and is due to take place in the summer.

Full details of these changes will be available here on Monday 26th April.

etchyed

murphaph wrote:

Isn't a better network for the majority worth the inconvenience to the minority?

angel01 wrote:

No it isn't

angel01, without reference to yourself could you explain this please?

Then it would be nice if you could tell us exactly how Dublin Bus is biased towards the southside.

devnull

KC61 wrote: »

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Details-on-Proposed-Changes/

Details on Proposed Changes
Phase One of the Network Direct project will involve the redesign of services in the Blanchardstown, Lucan and Stillorgan areas and is due to take place in the summer.

Full details of these changes will be available here on Monday 26th April.

They could have saved themselves a whole load of people calling up for details and bitching by releasing both the project and the first tranche at the same time.

angel01

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you could cycle

You never know, I may have to :eek:

popebenny16

KC61 wrote: »

That then is more a question for the DoT than Dublin Bus!

Nope - where is this saving of 95 buses coming from, and 200 staff?

murphaph wrote: »

The report was commisioned back in the boomdays anyway, not as a cost cutting measure.

it may have been commissioned back then, but it is being used in a skewered way now

schemingbohemia

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I really can't see drivers giving a ****e about real time bus information. Dublin Bus probably won't even be allowed assess staff performance with them! So I don't see how the rumoured proposals will benefit where I live in the slighest!

you're totally wrong there, it will mark a sea-change in how bus drivers operate, there'll be no spoofing as to where they currently are or imaginary 'traffic jams' as the previous bus will have been tracked going through the same area a few minutes earlier, there'll be no hiding place for drivers - it's not the rtpi it's the automatic vehicle location that will provide this information.

murphaph

angel01 wrote: »

So I have to move house because I have no other option of getting a bus. Dublin Bus have their slogan.. serving the entire community. Well that should go in the bin, so you don't think the likes of the 7 or 46A need cutting? geez, I see more of those bloody 46A's around town..

Oh yes, what do you suggest I do to get to my workplace? Walk??? Let me guess, you live on the southside

yes people are entitled to the dole, that is what you pay your money for taxes for

The 46A is a QBC route which has been succesful at attracting passengers from the private car, thereby reducing congestion. The 46A is one of the few good things about DB and you want to cut it. Unbelievable.

I live in Berlin, but I used to live in Clonsilla for 10 years, but I don't go in for this northside southside BS to be honest. There's enough parochial sh!t in Ireland already.

Cookie_Monster

schemingbohemia wrote: »

you're totally wrong there, it will mark a sea-change in how bus drivers operate, there'll be no spoofing as to where they currently are or imaginary 'traffic jams' as the previous bus will have been tracked going through the same area a few minutes earlier, there'll be no hiding place for drivers - it's not the rtpi it's the automatic vehicle location that will provide this information.

do you honestly think the union will ok this

Dublin Bus probably won't even be allowed assess staff performance with them

without a massive fight and demands for compensation

Sulmac

One thing they could do, as well as real-time information and integrated ticketing (both of which are vital), is introduce bike racks at all stops along QBCs and also some park-and-ride areas along major QBCs (particularly the N11 one) as well.

The current route network should be completely scrapped and a new one made rather than just "tweaking" with the current one, in my opinion.

Cookie_Monster

murphaph wrote: »

The 46A is a QBC route which has been succesful at attracting passengers from the private car, thereby reducing congestion. The 46A is one of the few good things about DB and you want to cut it. Unbelievable.

I'd be in favour of cutting it too, but only to redeploy the buses along the same corridor to routes such as 7b, 7d and 145 (even revive 46) which badly need expansion.

The 46a all but empties by Foxrock and is then way way over capacity to from there to DL, using other routes would benefit all and take away from no-one in this case.

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

do you honestly think the union will ok this



without a massive fight and demands for compensation

It is already in place and agreed to.

It is operating on route 123 and is being rolled out in Summerhill.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

It is already in place and agreed to.

It is operating on route 123 and is being rolled out in Summerhill.

I didn't mean the system, I meant use of the system to monitor driver performance; punctuality, speeding and time wasting.

So you are saying this will be used to measure driver performance then?

KC61

It can be used I am quite sure if a driver were to leave the terminus ahead of his/her time without being authorised to do so.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

It can be used I am quite sure if a driver were to leave the terminus ahead of his/her time without being authorised to do so.

well thats a very good thing then

lucernarian

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Did the report look at anything to do with stop rationalisation at all anyone?

The situation as it exist currently is a bit silly, stops every 300m average.

a large %age of stops could be removed speeding up routes with minimal passenger impact, a few hundred metres walk at most.

That idea really wouldn't go anywhere. Most stops tend to be consistently either busy or not. I think leaving rarely used stops are fine precisely because they are rarely used and would not add marginally significant delays. The big delays really could be tackled by doing something about the large number of cash fares, and that would mean that Dublin Bus would need to have a pragmatic smart card fare system in place...

lucernarian

schemingbohemia wrote: »

you're totally wrong there, it will mark a sea-change in how bus drivers operate, there'll be no spoofing as to where they currently are or imaginary 'traffic jams' as the previous bus will have been tracked going through the same area a few minutes earlier, there'll be no hiding place for drivers - it's not the rtpi it's the automatic vehicle location that will provide this information.

Isn't the RTPI based on the AVL, according to that Deloitte report?? I couldn't think of the term for the actual system technology being deployed. You're being rather pedantic there.

My point was that staff may not be happy with being monitored continuously, in the same sense that cameras in the workplace (specifically employee-only) areas are controvertial.

Polar101

I'm on the 39 route - looking forward to any route changes as it won't be possible to make it any worse, only better.

Cookie_Monster

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

That idea really wouldn't go anywhere. Most stops tend to be consistently either busy or not. I think leaving rarely used stops are fine precisely because they are rarely used and would not add marginally significant delays.

the issue is the slowing down, stopping and accelerating of buses unnecessarily due to the number of stops, not necessarily if the are busy or not. if you have a 1km road with 4 stops on it (such as where I used to live) and reduced it to 3 there'd be no appreciable impact to customers (30 second more walking) but the time saved by the bus, the reduction in fuel use and wear and tear on parts would be appreciable in the long run and reduce cost on a fleet wide basis considerably.