Dublin Bus Network Review

KC61

paulm17781 wrote: »

It's easy to change buses (also easy to walk two miles) but where it the single journey tickets, the highly secretive travel 90 for example? It shouldn't be about minimising changes, it should be about making changes easy to make.

I do genuinely believe that if Deloitte is implemented properly that is what we will see.

The travel 90 is hardly that secret - it has been advertised on the sides of buses and on the website - if people choose to continue to pay a EUR 2.20 csah fare then that really is their own fault!

cleveland browne

KC61 wrote: »

I think that until we all see the detailed plan it is very difficult to judge what is involved.

Last year all sorts of rumours of particular route cuts were made which turned out to be rather off-mark.

I'm quite sure that there can be a better service even with fewer buses.

This isfrom a meeting yezteday not speculation just the headlines from the plan..

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how can 46a and 10 join, run two totally different route from Donnybrook to Stephan green. Thats a big loss to one of those two streets.

I though the 10 was amongst the most popular routes, how can it be axed. Particularly at rush hour the 46a can barely cope andyway between CC and Belfield, what's it gonna be like with all that extra load?

Read the post again. The 39 and the 10 are to be merged too.

Probably as follows:

Extend the 39 via Baggot Street to Belfield.

Extend the 46a to Phoenix Park.

That's how! People need to think outside the box here!

KC61

cleveland browne wrote: »

This isfrom a meeting yezteday not speculation just the headlines from the plan..

I am aware of that - but the devil is always in the detail and headlines never tell the whole story!

angel01

KC61 wrote: »

Read the post again. The 39 and the 10 are to be merged too.

Probably as follows:

Extend the 39 via Baggot Street to Belfield.

Extend the 46a to Phoenix Park.

That's how! People need to think outside the box here!

Is it just the 39 that will be effected in Blanchardstown? will the 38 be affected?

KC61

angel01 wrote: »

Is it just the 39 that will be effected in Blanchardstown? will the 38 be affected?

I don't know - I imagine most routes are going to change somehow....we will have to wait and see!

angel01

KC61 wrote: »

I don't know - I imagine most routes are going to change somehow....we will have to wait and see!

:( I fear a strike ahead..

murphaph

Credit where credit is due. I hope DB mean what they say and will genuinely let the axe fall on all those tedious diversions that result in buses being snarled up in traffic for ages.

The 39 is crying out for serious reform so great that they're starting with that. I was soooo disappointed when the Ongar Distributor Road (complete with dual bus lanes throughout) was left almost unused when it opened in a vain effort to serve Clonsilla Village (eh, hardly anyone lives there!). They should run the 39 straight down this road and out onto the bypass asap. People will HAVE to walk further to a bus stop, like most countries where the bus functions well. I think even a guaranteed bus stop within 500m is far too short. A bus stop with 750 to 1000 metres is fine, so long as that stop is on a high quality, direct corridor, so the added walk is worth it in reliable, fast journey times.

DB can only do so much though and until the various local authorities cooperate with each other and DB in planning and delivering real bus priority measures, and network changes proposed by DB will have limited effect. Priority should pretty much always be given to the bus, unless there is a very strong argument not to.

murphaph

paulm17781 wrote: »

It shouldn't be about minimising changes, it should be about making changes easy to make.

To be honest Paul, it's about both. German cities rejig their networks every few years to take account of changing commuting patterns and to minimise connections where possible. When connections are required, they should be as easy to make as possible of course.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

Read the post again. The 39 and the 10 are to be merged too.

Probably as follows:

Extend the 39 via Baggot Street to Belfield.

Extend the 46a to Phoenix Park.

That's how! People need to think outside the box here!

hmmm... maybe.

But (and this is purely aesthetic)
why get rid of the 10, why not the 39.

Would it not make sense to also rationalise numbers back down by using the lower ones rather than discarding them?
Would obviously cause confusion is some areas, if the 9 or 12 suddenly reappeared for example but loner term would it make sense?

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

I do genuinely believe that if Deloitte is implemented properly that is what we will see.

any chance of getting them in to do same thing in IE?

KC61

angel01 wrote: »

:( I fear a strike ahead..

Well there are already agreements in place for change to be implemented....

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

hmmm... maybe.

But (and this is purely aesthetic)
why get rid of the 10, why not the 39.

Would it not make sense to also rationalise numbers back down by using the lower ones rather than discarding them?
Would obviously cause confusion is some areas, if the 9 or 12 suddenly reappeared for example but loner term would it make sense?

Perhaps some renumbering will happen - again we'll have to wait and see!

lucernarian

This plan seems like a disaster. The routes that have the biggest problems with 2 or 3 buses arriving at the same time seem to be those routes that have already travelled across much of the city by the time they reach e.g. the city centre. The number 4/4a being a good example. This is compounded by the 7s having the nasty habit of leaving roughly when a 4/4a arrives anyway!

Especially now that most people have some sort of travel card which is valid for as many changeovers as you want, why do they see fit to add even more impunctual cross-city routes.

Also, I get the feeling that Dublin Bus like annoying or even screwing over both the drivers and users of the 128.

angel01

I swear if they cut the bus route I get every day and make it longer, I will camp inside DB HQ and will not move. They are making the routes longer = cut in service. DB make me sick. Serving the entire community... what a load of tosh.:mad:

Cookie_Monster

angel01 wrote: »

I swear if they cut the bus route I get every day and make it longer, I will camp inside DB HQ and will not move. They are making the routes longer = cut in service. DB make me sick. Serving the entire community... what a load of tosh.:mad:

but there'll be a bus you don't need or want to get going by every 5 mins now :pac:

murphaph

angel01 wrote: »

I swear if they cut the bus route I get every day and make it longer, I will camp inside DB HQ and will not move. They are making the routes longer = cut in service. DB make me sick. Serving the entire community... what a load of tosh.:mad:

They are making routes shorter though

They want to eliminate diversions to serve settlements that have since been bypassed, letting the passengers walk a bit further to the stop. I don't think you really understand the network review I have to say. You should read the Deloitte report.

angel01

murphaph wrote: »

They are making routes shorter though

They want to eliminate diversions to serve settlements that have since been bypassed, letting the passengers walk a bit further to the stop. I don't think you really understand the network review I have to say. You should read the Deloitte report.

I do understand it, but as I don't live in those areas and live on a route that has already been cut, I swear if they do change mine. I will be so blooming angry.

In my opinion, the northside of the city suffers once again :mad:

cson

dearg lady wrote: »

yes I am quite serious, DB has been horrendously inefficient for years now they are making huge moves to fix this. I'm pleased with this. Or I coudl just keep whingin cos nothing's ever good enough for some people :rolleyes:

I'll give Dublin Bus credit when it deserves it. Plainly; it does not. Unfortunately it's a mixture of being CIE run, the city being unlike others in not having an extensive metro/tram system in place [before Luas], the haphazard planning of Dublin itself and the dependancy as a nation on cars. I haven't seen huge moves to fix anything - there are swanky new buses bought with boom money, the odd new bus shelter here and there and what else? Seriously what else?

dearg lady wrote: »

Highly secretive?? Don't be bloody ridiculous, anyone who makes the slightest effort to get the best value for money will research what tickets are available and what suits them best.

This thread is turning into a farce, I do believe, I'm out

The ticketing system is a farce. It's expensive - €100 for a monthly ticket is frankly ridiculous. You'd need to be making two €2.20 trips a day to make it viable. Lack of an integrated ticket until recently - in Chicago one can get use of the extensive Bus and Metro services for $80 Monthly ticket. Around €60 fyi.

The archaic ticketing is a huge encumbrance on efficiency - DB should really be adopting the TfL approach of having a flat fare [€3] thus necessitating everyone goes ticketless and improving efficency as there are little/no cash transactions. Furthermore; a system similar to TfL where embarking passengers board at the front and disembarking board at the rear would be preferable. Of course this is not possible bar the older buses as the new ones were ordered without the middle doors, yet more short sightedness.

cson

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

any chance of getting them in to do same thing in IE?

IE are more interested in covering up the reports they commission.

devnull

Not everyone is on a QBC, what happens to them though?

A colleague uses the 40D which is not on a QBC but shifts hundreds of hundreds of passengers a morning to the city centre, currently once every 15 mins, if they tag it on to the 38A for example, it's going to take half an hour extra to get into the city centre.

Yes they need to make the most of the QBC's where possible, but not at the expense of really annoying hundreds of other passengers by expanding their route by 50% who have no choice to use the bus, if they have an alternative such as another route or dart or rail fair enough, but not everyone had that luxury.

From the release it suggests, sorry boys, there are hundreds upon hundreds of people using the service during peak and DB are making shed loads of money on the almost full buses on every departure, but it's not on a QBC so we're going to lengthen your journey by half an hour as punishment and cut your service.

murphaph

There will be winners and losers, but overall, more winners than losers if it's done right. If the 40D shifts a significant number of passengers along a fairly direct route, then why would DB need to make significant changes to it?

KC61

cson wrote: »

I'll give Dublin Bus credit when it deserves it. Plainly; it does not. Unfortunately it's a mixture of being CIE run, the city being unlike others in not having an extensive metro/tram system in place [before Luas], the haphazard planning of Dublin itself and the dependancy as a nation on cars. I haven't seen huge moves to fix anything - there are swanky new buses bought with boom money, the odd new bus shelter here and there and what else? Seriously what else?



The ticketing system is a farce. It's expensive - €100 for a monthly ticket is frankly ridiculous. You'd need to be making two €2.20 trips a day to make it viable. Lack of an integrated ticket until recently - in Chicago one can get use of the extensive Bus and Metro services for $80 Monthly ticket. Around €60 fyi.

The archaic ticketing is a huge encumbrance on efficiency - DB should really be adopting the TfL approach of having a flat fare [€3] thus necessitating everyone goes ticketless and improving efficency as there are little/no cash transactions. Furthermore; a system similar to TfL where embarking passengers board at the front and disembarking board at the rear would be preferable. Of course this is not possible bar the older buses as the new ones were ordered without the middle doors, yet more short sightedness.

The ticketing system is dictated by Government also - DB wanted to bring in a flat fare at the time of the EURO changeover but this was shot down by the Department of Transport.

The two issues you've highlighted so far were delayed/refused by Government, not Dublin Bus.

devnull

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

This plan seems like a disaster. The routes that have the biggest problems with 2 or 3 buses arriving at the same time seem to be those routes that have already travelled across much of the city by the time they reach e.g. the city centre. The number 4/4a being a good example. This is compounded by the 7s having the nasty habit of leaving roughly when a 4/4a arrives anyway!

The 7 is a truly atrocious service, it's departure times seem not to be what is on it's timetable, but rather a few seconds after a 4 has pulled out in the mornings, which is highly annoying. Not all drivers do this, but it does happen a lot in the mornings which is highly frustrating when you see a 7 pull out 10 minutes before it's due because a 4 has gone past.

KC61

devnull wrote: »

Not everyone is on a QBC, what happens to them though?

A colleague uses the 40D which is not on a QBC but shifts hundreds of hundreds of passengers a morning to the city centre, currently once every 15 mins, if they tag it on to the 38A for example, it's going to take half an hour extra to get into the city centre.

Yes they need to make the most of the QBC's where possible, but not at the expense of really annoying hundreds of other passengers by expanding their route by 50% who have no choice to use the bus, if they have an alternative such as another route or dart or rail fair enough, but not everyone had that luxury.

I would be very surprised if the main route to Tyrellstown were re-routed to a slower route! The 40D is the main route to there and I would be surprised if it were cut.

This sort of speculation is nonsense - until we see the detail.

KC61

angel01 wrote: »

I swear if they cut the bus route I get every day and make it longer, I will camp inside DB HQ and will not move. They are making the routes longer = cut in service. DB make me sick. Serving the entire community... what a load of tosh.:mad:

Where did you see that your route is going to be cut? None of the detail has been published yet.

Last year this sort of speculation went on and on in advance of the changes and in the end the changes were far less intrusive on people's journeys than had been suggested.

Wait and see for the detail.

popebenny16

the 17a/220 makes no sence at all - they are totally different from Ballymun to Finglas, unless they are bringing the 17a from Ladyswell to Kilbarrack via Poppintree and south Finglas?

Again the idea that they can get rid of another 95 buses on top of those got rid of already is a disgrace. Are they really saying there arent 200 buses worth of people in cars that can be somehow enticed into their buses? Like IE they have given up. They may as well remove all the bloody buses and claim 100% cost reductions.

KC61

devnull wrote: »

The 7 is a truly atrocious service, it's departure times seem not to be what is on it's timetable, but rather a few seconds after a 4 has pulled out in the mornings, which is highly annoying. Not all drivers do this, but it does happen a lot in the mornings which is highly frustrating when you see a 7 pull out 10 minutes before it's due because a 4 has gone past.

Bear in mind that the rollout of the AVLC system should put an end to buses not leaving on time and the Deloitte Report recommendation of integrated corridor scheduling.

KC61

popebenny16 wrote: »

the 17a/220 makes no sence at all - they are totally different from Ballymun to Finglas, unless they are bringing the 17a from Ladyswell to Kilbarrack via Poppintree and south Finglas?

Again the idea that they can get rid of another 95 buses on top of those got rid of already is a disgrace. Are they really saying there arent 200 buses worth of people in cars that can be somehow enticed into their buses? Like IE they have given up. They may as well remove all the bloody buses and claim 100% cost reductions.

Why does it make no sense? It links Blanchardstown with a greater area of north Dublin.

Perhaps the 17a will operate via the current 220 routing or maybe the 103 will be re-routed to preserve a link along one of the roads.

Without seeing the whole plan then it's impossible to make comments like this I would suggest.

Undoubtedly there is slack in the fleet that can be eliminated through better scheduling, reduced running times in certain cases, and better integration between routes. Whether that adds to 95 buses I don't know, but I definitely would say that the fleet can deliver a better service with fewer buses.

etchyed

cson wrote: »

I'll give Dublin Bus credit when it deserves it. Plainly; it does not. Unfortunately it's a mixture of being CIE run, the city being unlike others in not having an extensive metro/tram system in place [before Luas], the haphazard planning of Dublin itself and the dependancy as a nation on cars. I haven't seen huge moves to fix anything - there are swanky new buses bought with boom money, the odd new bus shelter here and there and what else? Seriously what else?

That's exactly the point that dearg lady put to you. They're doing something now! So why are you complaining about it?

The ticketing system is a farce. It's expensive - €100 for a monthly ticket is frankly ridiculous. You'd need to be making two €2.20 trips a day to make it viable.

Plainly that's bollocks. €100/30=€3.33. It's 30 days non-consecutive. You need to be doing 2 €1.80s a day to make it viable but it's cheaper than using Travel 90s.

Lack of an integrated ticket until recently - in Chicago one can get use of the extensive Bus and Metro services for $80 Monthly ticket. Around €60 fyi.

I agree with you that Dublin Bus is too expensive but arbitrarily picking out a single city (that I presume you once lived in) to compare it to does nothing for your argument.

The archaic ticketing is a huge encumbrance on efficiency - DB should really be adopting the TfL approach of having a flat fare [€3] thus necessitating everyone goes ticketless and improving efficency as there are little/no cash transactions.

Like KC61 says, DB have been trying to do this for years but government won't let them. Find out who's to blame before ranting.

I agree with you on the middle doors though, that's a joke.