Dublin Bus Network Review

angel01

KC61 wrote: »

Why does it make no sense? It links Blanchardstown with a greater area of north Dublin.

Perhaps the 17a will operate via the current 220 routing or maybe the 103 will be re-routed to preserve a link along one of the roads.

Without seeing the whole plan then it's impossible to make comments like this?

and do tell me, how long will it take to get into town? it will take much longer and I for one, am on extremely tight limits regarding time and I can't afford for the route to take longer.

It is a discussion board, that is what we are all here for, if DB don't release the information asap, of course we shall speculate.

DB serving none of the community more like.

popebenny16

KC61 wrote: »

Why does it make no sense? It links Blanchardstown with a greater area of north Dublin.

Perhaps the 17a will operate via the current 220 routing or maybe the 103 will be re-routed to preserve a link along one of the roads.

Without seeing the whole plan then it's impossible to make comments like this I would suggest.

Undoubtedly there is slack in the fleet that can be eliminated through better scheduling, reduced running times in certain cases, and better integration between routes. Whether that adds to 95 buses I don't know, but I definitely would say that the fleet can deliver a better service with fewer buses.

it makes no sense for the reason I stated - although they both go east-west they do so in a totally different way. And if they were almalgamating the 103 into it as well (which was nto mentioned) then yeah, ok. But it wasnt.

KC61

angel01 wrote: »

and do tell me, how long will it take to get into town? it will take much longer and I for one, am on extremely tight limits regarding time and I can't afford for the route to take longer.

It is a discussion board, that is what we are all here for, if DB don't release the information asap, of course we shall speculate.

DB serving none of the community more like.

Indeed but it is equally possible that your journey time will not change!!

popebenny16

in my opinion saying that the fleet can offer improvements in services with available resorces is one thing - getting rid of buses is another. Surely this mentality - and it is mirrored in all parts of the CIE group - is defeatist.

If they find out they have a "spare" 95 buses they should say, ok, how can we use these buses to attract more pax?

I mean, you could swear this review is an excuse in cost cutting by any other name otherwise, but that would be cynical.

murphaph

Yeah, the elimination of middle doors was a monumental error on behalf of DB. In Berlin, the double deckers and articulated buses actually have front, middle AND rear doors to speed embarking and disembarking. It is forbidden to enter the bus through the middle and rear doors.



Edit: You will also note the very simple livery which has been yellow for over 70 years now. Saves money on silly PR agencies and resprays and keeps the fleet looking uniform at all times. The underground trains are the same colour.

cson

Fyi.

etchyed wrote: »

That's exactly the point that dearg lady put to you. They're doing something now! So why are you complaining about it?

She alluded to their already being progress which I countered there has not been apart from shiny new Celtic Tiger buses and QBC's which shouldn't be seen as progress more like necessity.


Plainly that's bollocks. €100/30=€3.33. It's 30 days non-consecutive. You need to be doing 2 €1.80s a day to make it viable but it's cheaper than using Travel 90s.

Excuse my mathematical mistakes. Notwithstanding; the price per journey re cash fares vs card fares is too close imo. You need to save more going ticketless than you currently do. Whether that's achieved via increased cash fares or decreasing card prices I'm unsure of though I lean toward a combination fo the two as I think the €100 Adult and €75 student cards are too high for the service you're getting.

I agree with you that Dublin Bus is too expensive but arbitrarily picking out a single city (that I presume you once lived in) to compare it to does nothing for your argument.

I can pick out other cities where the cost of transport is significantly better and cheaper. Check out Porto fyi, a similar enough City in terms of size to Dublin. It does plenty for my argument; it contrasts what we're getting here in Dublin versus the habitants of other cities.


Like KC61 says, DB have been trying to do this for years but government won't let them. Find out who's to blame before ranting.

This isn't a rant. If you want to see a rant; check out the thread I started in Ranting & Raving re Dublin Bus if you want my unsheathed opinion on them.

I agree with you on the middle doors though, that's a joke.

Wahey!

marwelie

All this route changing is speculation at the moment. I'd be more impressed if they announced that there was going to be low level buses put on all existing routes and any new ones in the future. I've been living in the same area for over 35 years and I still can't use two out of the three bus routes that pass my house because I can't get my wheelchair on it. I have no alternative but to drive or use the Luas on a night out, and Dublin Bus wonder why they are losing customers!

Oh and I may have no sense of direction but I can't see how the 20b and 14a are going to be amalgamated when the 20b goes from Stephens Green to Beaumont and the 14a goes from Parnell Sq to the Luas Station in Dundrum!

robd

popebenny16 wrote: »

Again the idea that they can get rid of another 95 buses on top of those got rid of already is a disgrace. Are they really saying there arent 200 buses worth of people in cars that can be somehow enticed into their buses? Like IE they have given up. They may as well remove all the bloody buses and claim 100% cost reductions.

I believe the report found a huge number of buses sitting idle within the city center waiting for there next run. By linking routes together and creating cross city buses they get rid of this slack, hence they can be more efficient and do the same with less.

dynamick

Getting rid of doors to slow down the buses was the result of a system of running buses for the benefit of staff rather than passengers. Passenger needs come last because the bus company has no competition and no penalty for failing to attract passengers. The doors were eliminated to avoid an industrial relations dispute over insurance cover for drivers when people exit rear doors.

This dispute may have been a genuine concern for safety or an attempt to blackmail a few quid from the company but either way it needed to be resolved. Rather than sort out the problem with the drivers or face them down, the management decided to order a fleet of new buses with a capacity of 123 people with just one fcuking door. In this way they could lock in crap dwell times for ever.

KC61

popebenny16 wrote: »

it makes no sense for the reason I stated - although they both go east-west they do so in a totally different way. And if they were almalgamating the 103 into it as well (which was nto mentioned) then yeah, ok. But it wasnt.

Again I would say that until we see that level of detail people are speculating wildly, and it may well be that both those changes may happen, therefore no one loses out.

popebenny16

yeah, but why with less?

why not with the same, or with more????

this is the sort of thinking that wrecked this country in the 80's.

KC61

marwelie wrote: »

All this route changing is speculation at the moment. I'd be more impressed if they announced that there was going to be low level buses put on all existing routes and any new ones in the future. I've been living in the same area for over 35 years and I still can't use two out of the three bus routes that pass my house because I can't get my wheelchair on it. I have no alternative but to drive or use the Luas on a night out, and Dublin Bus wonder why they are losing customers!

Oh and I may have no sense of direction but I can't see how the 20b and 14a are going to be amalgamated when the 20b goes from Stephens Green to Beaumont and the 14a goes from Parnell Sq to the Luas Station in Dundrum!

The 14a to follow its existing route from Dundrum to O'Connell Bridge and then go via route 20b to Beaumont perhaps?

KC61

popebenny16 wrote: »

yeah, but why with less?

why not with the same, or with more????

this is the sort of thinking that wrecked this country in the 80's.

That then is more a question for the DoT than Dublin Bus!

murphaph

The report was commisioned back in the boomdays anyway, not as a cost cutting measure. I think people are being far to critical of what should be a positive step forward towards bringing dublin more into line with other cities across Europe.

The typical me fein attitude has come to the fore rapidly in this thread. Isn't a better network for the majority worth the inconvenience to the minority? Just like the people who use the DART from the northside to the southside will have to change at Pearse to deliver a better service overall. Should we scrap the interconnector because of that? Of course not.

angel01

KC61 wrote: »

The 14a to follow its existing route from Dundrum to O'Connell Bridge and then go via route 20b to Beaumont perhaps?

Then why the need to duplicate existing luas routes?

angel01

murphaph wrote: »

The report was commisioned back in the boomdays anyway, not as a cost cutting measure. I think people are being far to critical of what should be a positive step forward towards bringing dublin more into line with other cities across Europe.

The typical me fein attitude has come to the fore rapidly in this thread. Isn't a better network for the majority worth the inconvenience to the minority? Just like the people who use the DART from the northside to the southside will have to change at Pearse to deliver a better service overall. Should we scrap the interconnector because of that? Of course not.

No it isn't, maybe if you lived in an area where cuts have already happened and probably will happen again, that might change your mind, I have a right to a regular bus service and I am happy with what I have now but it seems to be that DB yet again only care about one side of the city and the side I live in regularly gets chopped.

Why should I not speak up about the service that could effect me? I dont have an alternative way to get to my workplace and I depend on this bus to get me to town so yes I am passionate about it.

AlekSmart

Angel101 posts :It is a discussion board, that is what we are all here for, if DB don't release the information asap, of course we shall speculate.

This is a very valid point.

It`s worth noting that the internal communication of these plans is every bit as poor as the PR.

For example,a recent meeting of the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport was treated to a full presentation by a Dublin Bus senior executive during which the future direction and planning of it`s network was outlined.

Sadly,for the past few months any Staff Member desiring a similar level of information was left high and dry as discussions were "ongoing".

If the company could provide a senior- exec to satisfy the NILT`s desire for info then surely the same exec could have embarked upon a tour of the companys locations to appraise staff of the thinking ?

For quite some time now,Dublin Bus in common with almost every other company of stature has embraced all manner of "Communication" guru outfits to provide motivational courses for staff and management.

Yet at the very time this principle could be put into action the shutters are pulled as normal.

My reading of the draft proposals points to a generally positive intent,however I see nothing about addressing the single greatest cause of lack of custom....the outdated Fare/Stage cash payment system coupled with atrocious on-street infrastructure,both aspects which conspire to frighten NEW business away from the Bus.

The only way forward for Dublin Bus IMO,is to aggressively target NEW business by a combination of Cheap Fares/Easy Utilization/Reliable Service.

I remain unconvinced of the depth of scale of the Deloitte report,which as another poster points out is largely about cost-cutting rather than Public Service Provision.

Still no Night Services either I Note !

the groutch

I'll only believe any changes when I see them

possible changes I'd like to see are:

extend the 4a to cabinteely and dump the 45

replace the 75 with a more frequent bus from this side of the QBC up to dundrum

have a bus directly connecting Blackrock & Stillorgan

have the 46a go via stradbrook hill and the new road cutting across newtownpark avenue to get to stillorgan quicker

paulm17781

Wow! The negativity already shown is shocking! "Something's changing! Rabble rabble rabble." That's the problem with this country and why things are always done half-arsed.

Now, I know I said I didn't like the sound of it but that's not the changes, it's the "More people getting to the city centre without having to change" that I have an issue with. An Lar-ism is DBs biggest problem, I am only worried there will be more of it after the review.

Before anyone asks, if MY route changes, I won't give a toss.

paulm17781

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah, the elimination of middle doors was a monumental error on behalf of DB. In Berlin, the double deckers and articulated buses actually have front, middle AND rear doors to speed embarking and disembarking. It is forbidden to enter the bus through the middle and rear doors.

The sad thing is, German's obey rules, we'd whinge and whine about it until we could use the middle doors or just sneak on.

KC61

angel01 wrote: »

Then why the need to duplicate existing luas routes?

Ballinteer does not have a LUAS service! It is a good 25/30 minute walk away.

It will probably be a mix of the 14/14a.

KC61

angel01 wrote: »

No it isn't, maybe if you lived in an area where cuts have already happened and probably will happen again, that might change your mind, I have a right to a regular bus service and I am happy with what I have now but it seems to be that DB yet again only care about one side of the city and the side I live in regularly gets chopped.

Why should I not speak up about the service that could effect me? I dont have an alternative way to get to my workplace and I depend on this bus to get me to town so yes I am passionate about it.

And you are quite right.

But I have yet to see anything that suggests your service is being cut!!!

Let's wait and see!

KC61

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is a very valid point.
I remain unconvinced of the depth of scale of the Deloitte report,which as another poster points out is largely about cost-cutting rather than Public Service Provision.

Alek I would fundamentally disagree with that.

The main thrust of the recommendations of the report focussed on delivering improved services to passengers.

Cookie_Monster

the groutch wrote: »

extend the 4a to cabinteely and dump the 45

thats a step backward IMO, two buses from Bray to Cournelscourt, deansgrange, Blackrock, Merrion, CC rather than one.

Also the buses on the 4 would not be able to operate in Cabinteely due to length on tight corners, so would need to be redeployed or taken off the road which is wasteful.

murphaph

angel01 wrote: »

No [a better network for tha majority] isn't [worth the inconvenience to the minority]

Sums up what's wrong with Ireland to be honest.

angel01 wrote: »

maybe if you lived in an area where cuts have already happened and probably will happen again, that might change your mind, I have a right to a regular bus service

No you don't. What gives you that idea. Where in God's name did this sense of entitlement in Irish people come from..."I'm entitled to a job and when I can't find one I'm entitled to x amount of dole etc. etc."

angel01 wrote: »

and I am happy with what I have now but it seems to be that DB yet again only care about one side of the city and the side I live in regularly gets chopped.

Parochial rubbish. The southside gets no special treatment wrt bus services.

angel01 wrote: »

Why should I not speak up about the service that could effect me? I dont have an alternative way to get to my workplace and I depend on this bus to get me to town so yes I am passionate about it.

Fine, but you are just one person. The majority who will benefit from a network reform should not suffer because of you. DB didn't make you live where you live.

devnull

murphaph wrote: »

Sums up what's wrong with Ireland to be honest.

No you don't. What gives you that idea. Where in God's name did this sense of entitlement in Irish people come from..."I'm entitled to a job and when I can't find one I'm entitled to x amount of dole etc. etc."

They shouldn't have a slogan saying "Serving the Entire community" if they're not going to do that should they?

Some would say it could be considered fraud to advertise something that is not true?

paulm17781

murphaph wrote: »

Sums up what's wrong with Ireland to be honest.


No you don't. What gives you that idea. Where in God's name did this sense of entitlement in Irish people come from..."I'm entitled to a job and when I can't find one I'm entitled to x amount of dole etc. etc."


Parochial rubbish. The southside gets no special treatment wrt bus services.


Fine, but you are just one person. The majority who will benefit from a network reform should not suffer because of you. DB didn't make you live where you live.

Couldn't have put it better.

schemingbohemia

angel01 wrote: »

Why should I not speak up about the service that could effect me? I dont have an alternative way to get to my workplace and I depend on this bus to get me to town so yes I am passionate about it.

i've highlighted the most important word there, you don't know what changes will definitely be made to your service, you haven't identified your service and you're going on and on about some northside-southside service deficit when nothing definitive has been published.

personally i'm hoping there is some merging of the 4/4a/7/45 service with the 8 being cut and no detouring of those services into blackrock village, and I'm surprised that there has been no mention of those as the 4/4a was specifically mentioned in the deloitte report. but i'll hold my judgement until actual, you know, details emerge.

Sponge Bob

AlekSmart wrote: »

For example,a recent meeting of the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport was treated to a full presentation by a Dublin Bus senior executive during which the future direction and planning of it`s network was outlined.

Sadly,for the past few months any Staff Member desiring a similar level of information was left high and dry as discussions were "ongoing".

Not justifying DB internal incompetence but that was not least because they were not invited to this other shindig next week.

http://www.transportireland.ie/2010/programme.php

But were in the past.

murphaph

paulm17781 wrote: »

The sad thing is, German's obey rules, we'd whinge and whine about it until we could use the middle doors or just sneak on.

In Munich it is not forbidden to enter the middle doors because they still have ticket inspectors on their buses, which you absolutely never see in Berlin. The odd person sneaks on the back but they usually have a ticket anyway and just do it because the bus is full at the front. Drivers constantly have to tell people to move down the bus when it's full.

I use the bus here a lot, even though I live directly beside a high frequency train line. The bus, if running at a high frequency and to a reliable schedule, is perfectly acceptable and in summer only the buses in Berlin have aircon