Dublin Bus Network Review

clunked

Perhaps have double yellow lines enforced 24/7 on Camden St./Aungier St. and Georges St. which would at least improve the flow of traffic.

dfx-

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm not being diengenuous at all.

A decision to curtail a cross-city working is usually made before the bus departs as the controller will be trying to plan how to get the bus and driver back to where they ought to be. It also avoids having rows between drivers and passengers when the bus arrives at the city centre and terminates.

What can happen during the journey is where a bus driver is told to switch to out of service and operate in set-down mode only. This is usually where a particular bus is operating late due to some unforeseen delay and generally only happens on the section of the route where alternative options are available.

As to the cause of this, it is totally down to the rosters and the running time (i.e. the amount of time the schedule allows a bus to get from one terminus to the other).

In simple terms it is fairly obvious that the buses are not being allowed sufficient running time to get from one terminus to the other. After a return journey this could have doubled and the bus and driver are then nowhere near where they ought to be (e.g. at a terminus when they should be in the city centre). At that point the controller needs to try to get them back in position to try to restore the service and this can only be done by truncating or cancelling services. The second problem is that there are no drivers sitting in the depot who can be called upon to take up the slack mid-route.

What is needed is a roster that allows the buses sufficient time to make the journey and allow a little "wriggle room" for unforeseen delays. The problem is that takes time to draw up and then get agreement on it with drivers and the NTA.

It is a farcical and unacceptable situation tbh, and the customers are losing out here. It should never get to this stage - DB management need to sort this out quickly.

Yeah, but with late night services, maybe 4 buses operating the entire route. If it is scheduled to operate the 2230 southward service, what advantage is it to the controller to take it out of service or have it operate to the city only? The bus ought to be on its way, there is no point bringing it back to the garage from the city because it will not leave from Harristown once it gets back nor return from Grange Castle anyway.

LXFlyer

In that case perhaps the bus did break down? I don't know.

I am explaining the problem.

Telchak

I get the 151 from College Green every day, always arrives at about 17:35. I got to the bus stop today at 17:30 and the 151 was not appearing on the online RTPI, but I assumed it was an issue with the app and not the bus... that 151 never came, the one scheduled for 17:55 (that did appear on the RTPI) never came, and I eventually got one at 18:15 (I'm usually home by this time) :mad:

Relevance to this thread, is that the 13 stop is very nearby. I could have gotten the 13, but the 151 is faster and I assumed one would be along soon. So I waited. Between 17:30 and 18:00, six 13 buses stop at the College green stop.

I was a little confused, as I assumed the dodgy timetable would affect city centre stops most. Anyway, with the buses appearing at more than double its' timetable frequency, I can only assume later parts of the route must have been suffering from some awful gaps in service :mad:

Dub13

clunked wrote: »

Perhaps have double yellow lines enforced 24/7 on Camden St./Aungier St. and Georges St. which would at least improve the flow of traffic.

I agree 100%,for a start they don't even need that just enforce the current rules such as no parking on a continuous white line.I have often drove up that way in a car and been forced onto the other side of the road because of parked cars,I can only imagine what its like in a bus.

AngryLips

Dub13 wrote: »

This is part of the problem of having more cross city routes,it introduces unreliability.

I think one of the best aspects of Network Direct is the fact that there are more cross city busses and fewer routes that terminate in the city centre. Finally, the bus network in this city resembles what you would find in other cities and has made passenger interchanging between different legs of the one journey that much easier.

The problem with reliability isn't to do with cross city busses but to do with prioritisation of bus traffic on city streets and the width of traffic lanes. That solution would need the attention of not only Dublin Bus but the local authorities as well. Getting rid of on-street traffic would be a good start.

Dub13

AngryLips wrote: »

The problem with reliability isn't to do with cross city busses but to do with prioritisation of bus traffic on city streets and the width of traffic lanes. That solution would the the attention of not only Dublin Bus but the local authorities as well. Getting rid of on-street traffic would be a good start.

I agree cross city busses are great but we should have got these prioritizing messieurs first.

Rabbitt

Dub13 wrote: »

AngryLips wrote: »

The problem with reliability isn't to do with cross city busses but to do with prioritisation of bus traffic on city streets and the width of traffic lanes. That solution would the the attention of not only Dublin Bus but the local authorities as well. Getting rid of on-street traffic would be a good start.

I agree cross city busses are great but we should have got these prioritizing messieurs first.[/Quot

Is it safe to say that DB Network Direct is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?

AlekSmart

Rabbitt wrote: »

Dub13 wrote: »

I agree cross city busses are great but we should have got these prioritizing messieurs first.[/Quot

Is it safe to say that DB Network Direct is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?

Not quite "safe",but you are quite correct in your pointing out the ubsurdedness of Bus Atha Cliath attempting to introduce a major reorginization of services without first having got committments from the "Other" Stakeholders in Dublin City Teo.

For example,the principle of merging former Án Lár terminating routes into frequent X-City corridors is excellent in principle but in cases such as the 14/20b it collapses in a heap at the Collins Avenue/Beaumont Road junction when the complete absence of a Right-Turn filter traffic signal means all outbound 14's must sit and play Russian Roulette in order to make progress.

This issue should have been highlighted and addressed BEFORE any change took place,but in traditional Irish style,it was'nt even thought about...ah sure it'll be fine etc etc.

It's equally fair to say that the new Super Routes now feature far too many Bus Stops as the Company sought to completely retain the seperate identities of each of the merged routes instead of rationalizing the routes into a more efficient operation.

We cannot have our cake and eat it,and therefore at some point the original Network Direct concept needs to be revisited....the concept of "DIRECT" does not appear to be quite grasped at some higher managerial levels,and time is fast running out for any remedial actions.

The 145 is finally running well,but only after it was well and truly trashed by poor forward planning and a complete lack of operational appreciation......same for the 46A.....I had hoped that those mistakes would not have been repeated in the latter stages,but there ye go.

devnull

Next little bit of network direct announced.

Dublin Bus is pleased to announce changes to timetables on Routes 49/a and 54a from Sunday 6th November 2011. The timetables on these services will be integrated providing an improved service between Eden Quay and Harold’s Cross.

Route 49a will be withdrawn as part of this change. These changes reflect the most up to date customer demand patterns and ensure that Dublin Bus continues to provide a comprehensive network in the South West City.

Revised 49 timetable
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/49-Revised-Times/

Revised 54a timetable
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/54a-Revised-Times/

BIGGIEsmall

Wanted to get on the 54A, was "out of service" but there were people on the bus. Drops the guy coming off away from the stop so I couldn't get on. Absolute BS

Rabbitt

BIGGIEsmall wrote: »

Wanted to get on the 54A, was "out of service" but there were people on the bus. Drops the guy coming off away from the stop so I couldn't get on. Absolute BS

That's cold, real cold.
Take his number and report him to the gardai or Dublin Bus

BIGGIEsmall

Rabbitt wrote: »

That's cold, real cold.
Take his number and report him to the gardai or Dublin Bus

Will do.

meanmachine3

BIGGIEsmall wrote: »

Wanted to get on the 54A, was "out of service" but there were people on the bus. Drops the guy coming off away from the stop so I couldn't get on. Absolute BS

things like this really make me laugh " you wanted to get get on an out of service bus" are you kiddin. the reason it's out of service is so the driver doesn't let passengers on. the only thing you'd be heading for is confrontation, confrontation leads to the dark side. thus this leads to the guards being called to probably haul your ass of the bus.

Rabbitt wrote: »

That's cold, real cold.
Take his number and report him to the gardai or Dublin Bus

report the driver to dublin bus for what, doing his job? report him to the guards for what, doing his job.
ahhh come on. if that was me. sorry boss/ guard. the reason i pulled up short out of service was to let people off and to avoid confrontation at the stop because Mr. small there is adamant he's getting on my bus. do you really think tiny has a leg to stand on?
F.F.S. i'm pissin meself laughing at these quotes

Rabbitt

meanmachine3 wrote: »

BIGGIEsmall wrote: »

Wanted to get on the 54A, was "out of service" but there were people on the bus. Drops the guy coming off away from the stop so I couldn't get on. Absolute BS

things like this really make me laugh " you wanted to get get on an out of service bus" are you kiddin. the reason it's out of service is so the driver doesn't let passengers on. the only thing you'd be heading for is confrontation, confrontation leads to the dark side. thus this leads to the guards being called to probably haul your ass of the bus.

Rabbitt wrote: »

That's cold, real cold.
Take his number and report him to the gardai or Dublin Bus

report the driver to dublin bus for what, doing his job? report him to the guards for what, doing his job.
ahhh come on. if that was me. sorry boss/ guard. the reason i pulled up short out of service was to let people off and to avoid confrontation at the stop because Mr. small there is adamant he's getting on my bus. do you really think tiny has a leg to stand on?
F.F.S. i'm pissin meself laughing at these quotes

How did you know his name is Small? Well he let someone on when OOS so why not me?

cson

I'd love to live in Out of Service wherever that is; every ****ing bus seems to go there.

meanmachine3

Rabbitt wrote: »

How did you know his name is Small?

i'm takin the piss as his last name is small.jasus at this rate i'll be in line for another suspension :rolleyes:

Rabbitt wrote: »

Well he let someone on when OOS so why not me?

rabbitt just in case you dont know, theres a hand full of bus drivers that post here. i'm one of them. the rest gave up because of all the abuse. i say bring it on. now to answer your question.but before i do where your concerned you didn't mention anything about your bus driver letting someone on whilst out of service,but any way he should'nt have let someone on. most main roads have one main route with alot of branch routes in between. take the malahide road main route is the 42 then the branch off are 27's,128's,43's etc. same with the swords road. what happens is we're told to work to a certain area then when we meet up with other routes we go out of service. going out of service means exactly what it says on the bus. we dont pick up only drop off passengers.
so my advice is dont try to get on an out of service bus unless the driver calls/beckons you. you'll only be asking for confrontation.

ax586

cson wrote: »

I'd love to live in Out of Service wherever that is; every ****ing bus seems to go there.

It's called the garage

AlekSmart

Rabbitt wrote: »

That's cold, real cold.
Take his number and report him to the gardai or Dublin Bus

Sadly enough it has nothing to do with the weather at all.

As other posters have advised,the situation is known as "Blank it out-and Drop them off" and is,sadly,now somewhat more widespread post Network Direct.

The immenent Mid-Term break will however take some presure off and before you know it,all will be forgotten.

However the core issue remains,insufficient general running time to allow for the new "Network Direct" routings.

It can only be addressed by either allocating more running time (something which will be resisted to the last man) or....by actually taking the principles which guided Network Direct (Hint: it's in the name) and ensuring they are implemented.

Get rid of convoluted stretches of route,rationalize the fare structure,reduce the number of stops,and reallocate some resources from wildly innefficient uses such as the 61,161,56A,63,84 to bolster those mainlines which are now creaking under the weight of unreality.

The options are running out sadly,as the attempt to round-peg the square-hole of merged routes which have not been modified to suit the Network Direct principle is not working,will not work and cannot work.

I would also suggest an addition to Rabbits report-to list...The National Transport Authority,under whose impra-matur this collapse is taking place...although they might not be interested enough to take much notice ?

Rabbitt

meanmachine3 wrote: »

Rabbitt wrote: »

How did you know his name is Small?

i'm takin the piss as his last name is small.jasus at this rate i'll be in line for another suspension :rolleyes:

Rabbitt wrote: »

Well he let someone on when OOS so why not me?

rabbitt just in case you dont know, theres a hand full of bus drivers that post here. i'm one of them. the rest gave up because of all the abuse. i say bring it on. now to answer your question.but before i do where your concerned you didn't mention anything about your bus driver letting someone on whilst out of service,but any way he should'nt have let someone on. most main roads have one main route with alot of branch routes in between. take the malahide road main route is the 42 then the branch off are 27's,128's,43's etc. same with the swords road. what happens is we're told to work to a certain area then when we meet up with other routes we go out of service. going out of service means exactly what it says on the bus. we dont pick up only drop off passengers.
so my advice is dont try to get on an out of service bus unless the driver calls/beckons you. you'll only be asking for confrontation.

asking for confrontation? What are you a bouncer on the door of a nightclub?
Are drivers trained to confront people who try tk board an OOS bus? Would a polite sorry I can't take anyone not do in response to a request to board?
Seems a tad over the top IMO.
Anyhows your quite proud of being a driver but maybe you missed that some of the posts were more in jest

KD345

meanmachine3 wrote: »

i'm takin the piss as his last name is small.jasus at this rate i'll be in line for another suspension :rolleyes:

rabbitt just in case you dont know, theres a hand full of bus drivers that post here. i'm one of them. the rest gave up because of all the abuse. i say bring it on. now to answer your question.but before i do where your concerned you didn't mention anything about your bus driver letting someone on whilst out of service,but any way he should'nt have let someone on. most main roads have one main route with alot of branch routes in between. take the malahide road main route is the 42 then the branch off are 27's,128's,43's etc. same with the swords road. what happens is we're told to work to a certain area then when we meet up with other routes we go out of service. going out of service means exactly what it says on the bus. we dont pick up only drop off passengers.
so my advice is dont try to get on an out of service bus unless the driver calls/beckons you. you'll only be asking for confrontation.

I'm assuming this same bus will approach stops as being "Due" on RTPI screens and smart phones, so any passenger watching this bus count down and arrive at the stop, with passengers on board, will naturally assume this bus is in service. Just because a bus says it's "out of service" doesn't mean it is. Remember, not all routes are programmed correctly into the destination screens, also drivers switch over buses in the city centre and picked up passengers while displaying out of service, it can be similar at the outer terminus.

I'm not sure why you adopt such an aggressive attitude on here and in your work. If a bus stops at a bus stop with passengers getting off, with other passengers onboard, it is not unreasonable for somebody at the stop to question if they can board, especially if the sign next to them says a bus is due. Thankfully my experience of Dublin Bus drivers is different to you, most are courteous, pleasant and don't have a "confrontation".

dfx-

cson wrote: »

I'd love to live in Out of Service wherever that is; every ****ing bus seems to go there.

Yet Dublin Bus isn't expecting many people to go there, it keeps apologising for going there.

Do late inbound 68s go down Emmet Rd to Conyngham Rd? I saw on the first inbound display on Emmet Rd tonight at midnight that a "68 Conyngham Rd" would be due. I thought they'd (and have seen some since the changes) go the old way by going straight at the Black Lion.

The_Wrecker

BIGGIEsmall wrote: »

Wanted to get on the 54A, was "out of service" but there were people on the bus. Drops the guy coming off away from the stop so I couldn't get on. Absolute BS

How do you know it was a 54a? The sorry display shows no number.

AlekSmart

The_Wrecker wrote: »

How do you know it was a 54a? The sorry display shows no number.

Valid point,Wrecker.

It's also worth mentioning that,as a driver,I've noticed the confusion the new emotionally-charged "Sorry-Ár Léithscéil" wording is causing.

It is quite a lot of extra,totally superfluous wording,tacked on to what needs to be an easily discernable display.

Now,an intending passenger is greeted with a mass of words stuffed into a relatively small space,of which at least 50% is of absolutely no meaning whatever.

Personally I've given up on supporting such desk-bound nonsense and I now scroll to the simpler and easier to discern SPECIAL-SPECIALTA display.

Clarity and Brevity of purpose is what makes Public Transport Displays work.....;)

meanmachine3

KD345 wrote: »

Just because a bus says it's "out of service" doesn't mean it is. Remember, not all routes are programmed correctly into the destination screens, also drivers switch over buses in the city centre and picked up passengers while displaying out of service, it can be similar at the outer terminus.

I'm not sure why you adopt such an aggressive attitude on here and in your work. If a bus stops at a bus stop with passengers getting off, with other passengers onboard, it is not unreasonable for somebody at the stop to question if they can board, especially if the sign next to them says a bus is due. Thankfully my experience of Dublin Bus drivers is different to you, most are courteous, pleasant and don't have a "confrontation".

alright KD i'l give you your dues. your are right a degree. in certain cases scrolls have been known not to set up a destination now given the fact that more and more of us are being instructed to blank it out at certain areas doesn't help the matter and if i'll be honest it makes it worse in that joe public doesn't know whether the bus is actually out of service or if it's a scroll error.
yes i do come across as being aggressive and the reason is that most posters have the attitude on here that " the customers always right". i dont buy that for one minute. our job is hard enough as it is. as i've said before when i'm driving i'm one of the nicest bus drivers you'd meet. so much so if you ever did come across me when driving you'd break your ****e laughing that the bus driver me and mean at the same person. i rarely have an trouble on my route and i do go out of my way to help people. but i tend to stick to the rules as i'm trained to. on the rare occasion when i do have to break them i make sure i'm covered.

KD345

The_Wrecker wrote: »

How do you know it was a 54a? The sorry display shows no number.

I'm not sure where this person was boarding, but the 54A runs on its own for a lot of its route. Perhaps the passenger was waiting along a part of the route only served by the 54A and was using RTPI. Unfortunately when a controller tells a driver to display out of service half way into its journey, it still shows as operating on the smartphone, web and on street displays.

The_Wrecker

KD345 wrote: »

I'm not sure where this person was boarding, but the 54A runs on its own for a lot of its route. Perhaps the passenger was waiting along a part of the route only served by the 54A and was using RTPI. Unfortunately when a controller tells a driver to display out of service half way into its journey, it still shows as operating on the smartphone, web and on street displays.

Once a journey is curtailed, it is removed from the system until the bus reached the stop it is curtailed to.

honru

Experienced big delay on the 13 yesterday due to roadworks near Kilmainham. Took almost an hour to get from Dame Street to Red Cow. Surely delays like that will put pressure on the route to make its running time?

Heart

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Once a journey is curtailed, it is removed from the system until the bus reached the stop it is curtailed to.

Only if the controller does his/her job properly... You'll find a lot of 9C, 11C, 16C short workings still show on RTPI as operating full length routes.

H

cson

AlekSmart wrote: »

Valid point,Wrecker.

It's also worth mentioning that,as a driver,I've noticed the confusion the new emotionally-charged "Sorry-Ár Léithscéil" wording is causing.

It is quite a lot of extra,totally superfluous wording,tacked on to what needs to be an easily discernable display.

Now,an intending passenger is greeted with a mass of words stuffed into a relatively small space,of which at least 50% is of absolutely no meaning whatever.

Personally I've given up on supporting such desk-bound nonsense and I now scroll to the simpler and easier to discern SPECIAL-SPECIALTA display.

Clarity and Brevity of purpose is what makes Public Transport Displays work.....;)

Every bus that passes me by now with SPECIALTA on it I'll be cursing you Alek. :P