Dublin Bus Network Review

KD345

Flukey wrote: »

KD345, I am well aware of all of the changes, but the point is, information campaign or not, a lot of people are not aware.

A lot of people are not aware? Really? Dublin Bus have had community road shows, placed information online, put ads in the press, notified passengers through social media and handed out flyers. The information is there of people choose to use it. If people are as confused as you suggest they can easily find the answer.

Flukey wrote: »

. So people will be getting on these routes expecting them to go where they've always gone and people will be looking for routes that have been terminated and some people will be wondering why they are seeing some buses on streets where they don't usually see them.

Are you saying bus routes should never change? People are not as slow to adapt as you think. Bus routes have been changing for years and will continue to long after network direct. I don't accept that people do/will have a problem with the number 13 and 40 in Inchicore instead of the 51, 51B, 51C and 78A. Actually, 13 and 40 sounds a lot easier to understand.

Look at the 46A. It replaced route 10 but people soon adapted. Likewise with route 9, 14, 83, 122 etc. People have complained on here about routes having too many suffixes and not matching other routes in the area etc. this is a chance to change all that.

Flukey wrote: »

With some of the routes going to radically different places, like a 13 heading out towards Clondalkin rather than Merrion Square, or Ranelagh, as it would have years ago, this adds further confusion.

I honestly don't think because the 13 once served Ranelagh over 20 years ago that it's causing a problem for people in Clondalkin. Besides, they managed just fine with the 51A operating for years on the north side while having no connection to the 51 bunch of routes on the south side.

You do have a point in questioning the efficiency on the new cross city routes. The 13 seems to be having problems which will hopefully be addressed.

Ben D Bus

Flukey wrote: »

KD345, I am well aware of all of the changes, but the point is, information campaign or not, a lot of people are not aware.

Sorry Flukey, but in your attempt to insult Dublin Bus management you are actually insulting the intelligence of passengers. And I think you are very wrong.

honru

Plus from what I've seen Dublin Bus have been quick to update stop signage and posters prior to these Network Direct changes.

Dodge

The confusion with numbers lasts doesn't last long. Bus stop signs have changed and the bus have their destination on them. That's not an issue

What is an issue is whether people are seeing a better or worse service for their needs. Some success stories, some which have so far been mixed at best

dfx-

Not much use having information even if it is stapled to people's heads for a service that is uselessly unreliable....

There may as well be information on Dublin Bus' new Heuston Station-The Moon service as the 13 and less so the 27. Both are as likely to be true

howiya

One thing network direct hasn't fixed in the tallaght area. Waiting for the 11am departure of the 54a from Kiltipper (which was on time) and three buses turn on to the N81 out of Killinarden at the same time. 54a, 65b and 77a

Two of these buses originate from the same point at the same time (both leave Citywest at 10:50). They double over each other from Citywest to Tallaght Village with the 54a and 65b doubling over each other from Killinarden Heights to the Spawell roundabout.

Surely this is inefficient. If you miss one bus you miss them all. Dublin Bus should spread out the departure times

KC8

I think there is an almost unanimous view that the implementation of Network Direct has been poor. However, I remain a supporter of the concept. Having trunk routes running across the city with relatively high frequency means that the entire city is now served by half a dozen key routes – surely a straightforward proposition for customers.

Despite the reduction of buses, I think the service for most people can still improve.

There is no doubt that Blanchardstown and Lucan now have a better overall service. The teething problems in both cases, now resolved, should never have occurred.

The reality is that the removal of routes such as the 19 or 121 has not had a big impact on the travelling public. That’s not to deny that some people are impacted but its not the majority or not even a large minority.

Chapilizod is a good example of where less is more – It now has far fewer buses serving it than a year ago but the service is now far better with consistent intervals between services.

I see two big problems with recent rollouts.

Running times – Any new service must be reliable to maintain existing customers and attract new customers. Clearly the new 13 and 27, like the 38 and 145 a year ago, isn’t reliable. Where the numbers of buses are being reduced along a route, it is all the more important that those that remain are reliable. I see two easy ways to sort the problem. In the case of the 27, terminate it at the new 27A terminus rather than Edenmore. The 10 minutes saved on each journey should do the trick. The original proposal for the 27A was an hourly service which changed to a 30 minute service after consultation. In my view, the increase in 27As now no longer warrants the 27 going as far as Edenmore. Same simple change for the 13 - Terminate it at IKEA rather than heading all the way to Harristown empty. Not sure if this will solve the entire running time issue but it will go some way.

Evening services - Where core roues are now reduced to realtively low frequencies at night such as on routes 13 and 27, I believe intermediate times where buses actualky hold until their alloted time is required. Otherwise, imo reliability just cant be delivered.

Dyr

Heres the thing..one protest on dame street yesterday and half of dublins buses bright new cross city routes were rendered useless.

Eggs and baskets and idiots buddy

DjFlin

The funny thing about all these new Real Time signs is that they highlight how busses randomly dont show up. I was waiting on Pearse the other day for my bus to Leixlip. I had literally just missed the 66, and the 66A was due at 15.40 (or 15.30? The website, and the stops have different times), and it just didn't show up. The Real time sign counted down the minutes until it said it was due, and then it just vanished off the sign. I ended up getting on the next 66, which arrived about 15 minutes after the 66A was due.

This has happened to me a few times. Luckily, it has never happened at times where I'm in a rush to be somewhere, but the though that the bus might not show up when I have somewhere to be urgently really freaks me out.

How can DB encourage people to leave the car at home, when they clearly cant ensure you'll get to work on time.

KD345

howiya wrote: »

One thing network direct hasn't fixed in the tallaght area. Waiting for the 11am departure of the 54a from Kiltipper (which was on time) and three buses turn on to the N81 out of Killinarden at the same time. 54a, 65b and 77a

Two of these buses originate from the same point at the same time (both leave Citywest at 10:50). They double over each other from Citywest to Tallaght Village with the 54a and 65b doubling over each other from Killinarden Heights to the Spawell roundabout.

Surely this is inefficient. If you miss one bus you miss them all. Dublin Bus should spread out the departure times

Both the 54A and 65B have yet to change under Network Direct. The 77A timetable and route changed with the Tallaght/Coolock phase, but the 54A and 65B are part of the Templeogue changes. The 65B will no longer serve Tallaght Village.

Dyr

DjFlin wrote: »

The funny thing about all these new Real Time signs is that they highlight how busses randomly dont show up. I was waiting on Pearse the other day for my bus to Leixlip. I had literally just missed the 66, and the 66A was due at 15.40 (or 15.30? The website, and the stops have different times), and it just didn't show up. The Real time sign counted down the minutes until it said it was due, and then it just vanished off the sign. I ended up getting on the next 66, which arrived about 15 minutes after the 66A was due.

This has happened to me a few times. Luckily, it has never happened at times where I'm in a rush to be somewhere, but the though that the bus might not show up when I have somewhere to be urgently really freaks me out.

How can DB encourage people to leave the car at home, when they clearly cant ensure you'll get to work on time.

Same happened to me on pearse street yesterday, after waiting an hour for a 13, I walked up to pearse street to get a 4..two of them are showing up in the RTPI as due so I think I'm sorted. Nothing comes past for ten minutes so I check again and they've both disappeared and the next one is'nt due for 30 minutes. Wound up paying for a taxi

I thought RTPI might help force dublin bus onto the straight and narrow but as usual they found a way to game the system:rolleyes:

howiya

KD345 wrote: »

Both the 54A and 65B have yet to change under Network Direct. The 77A timetable and route changed with the Tallaght/Coolock phase, but the 54A and 65B are part of the Templeogue changes. The 65B will no longer serve Tallaght Village.

Any details on the proposed changes available yet?

LXFlyer

howiya wrote: »

Any details on the proposed changes available yet?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct-Phase-2/Swords--Santry--Rathfarnham--Firhouse--Ballycullen--Terenure/

Route 65b
Citywest >> Fortunestown (Luas) >> Blessington Road >> Killinarden Heights >> Firhouse Road West >> Killininny Road >> Ballycullen Road >> Firhouse Road >> Templeogue Road >> Terenure >> Rathgar Road >> Rathmines >> South Great George's Street >> Eden Quay


Service Frequencies (Estimates)
Route Peak Off Peak
65b 45 mins 60 mins

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct-Phase-2/Tallaght-Walkinstown-Crumlin-Road-South-Circular-Road-Pearse-Street-and-Sandymount/

Route 54a
Ellensborough >> Tallaght (The Square) >> Tallaght Rd (Balrothery) >> Willington Road >> Fortfield >> Leonard’s Corner >> Harold’s Cross >> Clanbrassil Street >> Eden Quay

LXFlyer

DjFlin wrote: »

The funny thing about all these new Real Time signs is that they highlight how busses randomly dont show up. I was waiting on Pearse the other day for my bus to Leixlip. I had literally just missed the 66, and the 66A was due at 15.40 (or 15.30? The website, and the stops have different times), and it just didn't show up. The Real time sign counted down the minutes until it said it was due, and then it just vanished off the sign. I ended up getting on the next 66, which arrived about 15 minutes after the 66A was due.

This has happened to me a few times. Luckily, it has never happened at times where I'm in a rush to be somewhere, but the though that the bus might not show up when I have somewhere to be urgently really freaks me out.

How can DB encourage people to leave the car at home, when they clearly cant ensure you'll get to work on time.

A quick point on the timetables. Look at them again and you will see the reason for the different timetables:

This page shows the times for the bus leaving the terminus at Merrion Square:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/66a/

This page shows the intermediate times for the bus at Pearse Street.
http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/7586/66a(2).pdf

The second version is applied on all stops from Pearse Street Garda Station onwards.

DjFlin

lxflyer wrote: »

A quick point on the timetables. Look at them again and you will see the reason for the different timetables:

This page shows the times for the bus leaving the terminus at Merrion Square:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/66a/

This page shows the intermediate times for the bus at Pearse Street.
http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/7586/66a(2).pdf

The second version is applied on all stops from Pearse Street Garda Station onwards.

Thanks for that. Still doesnt explain why all my local stops have the same problem. Both the site and stops say "from Maynooth"

KD345

DjFlin wrote: »

Thanks for that. Still doesnt explain why all my local stops have the same problem. Both the site and stops say "from Maynooth"

Are you saying the 66 timetable "from Maynooth" is different on stops to the website?

LXFlyer

DjFlin wrote: »

Thanks for that. Still doesnt explain why all my local stops have the same problem. Both the site and stops say "from Maynooth"

Well if you are talking about route 66 times inbound then that is correct.

There are two versions of the inbound 66 timetable, one that lists the departure times from Maynooth terminus and one that lists the intermediate times at Lucan Village. The first is on all inbound stops as far as Lucan and the second is used from Lucan onwards.

DjFlin

KD345 wrote: »

Are you saying the 66 timetable "from Maynooth" is different on stops to the website?

Yeah, I live in Leixlip, and the timetables at my stop don't match the ones on the site. It might just be that this stop was overlooked when updating or something. But its still very annoying.

lxflyer wrote: »

Well if you are talking about route 66 times inbound then that is correct.

There are two versions of the inbound 66 timetable, one that lists the departure times from Maynooth terminus and one that lists the intermediate times at Lucan Village. The first is on all inbound stops as far as Lucan and the second is used from Lucan onwards.

Its not that, I live in Leixlip.

meanmachine3

DjFlin wrote: »

The funny thing about all these new Real Time signs is that they highlight how busses randomly dont show up. I was waiting on Pearse the other day for my bus to Leixlip. I had literally just missed the 66, and the 66A was due at 15.40 (or 15.30? The website, and the stops have different times), and it just didn't show up. The Real time sign counted down the minutes until it said it was due, and then it just vanished off the sign. I ended up getting on the next 66, which arrived about 15 minutes after the 66A was due.

This has happened to me a few times. Luckily, it has never happened at times where I'm in a rush to be somewhere, but the though that the bus might not show up when I have somewhere to be urgently really freaks me out.

How can DB encourage people to leave the car at home, when they clearly cant ensure you'll get to work on time.

lxflyer wrote: »

A quick point on the timetables. Look at them again and you will see the reason for the different timetables:

This page shows the times for the bus leaving the terminus at Merrion Square:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/66a/

This page shows the intermediate times for the bus at Pearse Street.
http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/7586/66a(2).pdf

The second version is applied on all stops from Pearse Street Garda Station onwards.

i read both quotes and i'll try my best to explain.
the 15.40 thats supposed to arrive in pearse is actually the 15.30 66A from merrion square. the problem is drivers are given about 10-15 minute to get from merrion square to pearse street. the timing depends on two factors traffic light sequence and vehicular traffic. sometimes it can 20 minutes to get to pearse street other times it can take only 5 if the driver gets a good run of lights and theres hardly any traffic. so in the case of flin. if he arrives in pearse street at 15.47 chances are he's already missed his bus as the driver has got a good run. it's not the fact that the bus hasn't shown up. it has arrived only a few mins earlier than the real time thingy has calculated.
now before most of you start jumping the gun here and saying the drivers should wait their time etc. the A.V.L. ( sat nav thingy above our heads)we have is not properly calculated. i've seen this thing on my own route where it could show me way up by about 10 mins only for me to look at it again this time for it to be in the minus. in time when it's up and running properly there will be certain times if we're ahead of schedule when we will be instructed to pull into the bus stop and wait for the clock to get to zero.
enjoy it while you can folks. at the moment some of you are getting into the city about 15-20 minutes before the bus is actually due to arrive especially when the schools are out. but when the real time thingy comes up and running properly if it says on the time table it'll take an hour or whatever it is for your bus journey you can be damned sure it'll take that time and not a minute quicker.

Karen23

Since the change to the 13 route the service has been awful. The changes were supposed to make the service more frequent but trying to get a bus to and from Ballymun lately is a nightmare.

BenShermin

I don't think there should be any intermediate timetables whatsoever until a stage where the drivers have to obey them. I've often been on a late evening 26 bus passing Victoria Quay when it's intermediate timetable claimed it should have only been departing Pearse Street.

I don't really think these timetables can work in a traffic clogged city with very little bus priority anyway. Certainly any rush hour buses I used in Brussels or London have never worked to the timetable! The RTPI system is excellent and offers more "realistic" information than an intermediate stop time anyday.

qerty

The intermediate timetables are also a bit misleading. If you are a tourist or are not familiar with a route you may be fooled into thinking that the bus leaves from Lucan Village and not Maynooth (In the case of the 66/a/b etc. etc.)
This could be a problem at stops where there is not a real-time information display, and a customer is working out how long the bus will take to get to there stop based on the timetable displayed. These times are only estimates after all, you can't predict that the bus will leave lucan village at xxxx time 100% of the time and drivers don't necessarily follow these times either (Gathering this form posts on this website)

IMO the timetables should clearly state that they are intermediate times, which they are don't, and state where the terminus actually is.

Also, as lxflyer correctly says, the intermediate times should apply for all stops after the intermediate point. But in reality, I have seen cases where one stop has an intermediate time and the next stop doesn't. It will display the terminus-terminus timetable. One example is on Thomas street, where the 13 timetable was the Harristown one, but in on O'Connell street, the timetable displayed is the Parnell square east timetable!

meanmachine3

BenShermin wrote: »

I don't really think these timetables can work in a traffic clogged city with very little bus priority anyway.

well said ben unfortunately our job is getting alot harder out there now. the latest crazy we're up against is illegal taxi ranks forming at most city centre bus stops in the evening. they blatantly block the stops so we cant get near them and in most cases refuse to move when a bus approaches leaving us either to load passengers in the middle of the road when it's dark there by putting the traveling public at risk of being hit by a cyclist or having to drive past the stop onto the next stop because of safety concerns. the latter i have done on occasion. so getting back to ben's quote. if theres an illegal taxi parked/rank at your bus stop and the bus drives past. dont blame the driver blame the taxi thats putting your safety at risk.

Dyr

Karen23 wrote: »

Since the change to the 13 route the service has been awful. The changes were supposed to make the service more frequent but trying to get a bus to and from Ballymun lately is a nightmare.

Well ring them or write them and email and tell them that

Dyr

BenShermin wrote: »

I don't really think these timetables can work in a traffic clogged city with very little bus priority anyway.

I don't know if you noticed the bus lanes..or the city centre being closed to cars Or even the gridlock disappearing over the last few years :pac:

nommm

It seems a few drivers of the 83 bus have decided to change the route themselves. They've taken a short cut and missed my bus stop several times in the past week. Very annoying.

Dodge

Karen23 wrote: »

Since the change to the 13 route the service has been awful. The changes were supposed to make the service more frequent but trying to get a bus to and from Ballymun lately is a nightmare.

If its any consolotion to you, its the same the other side of the network.

I'm about 3 stops from the terminus and wasn't a bus for 33 minutes this morning (at supposedly 12 minutes intervals)

CIE

Karen23 wrote: »

Since the change to the 13 route the service has been awful. The changes were supposed to make the service more frequent but trying to get a bus to and from Ballymun lately is a nightmare.

Wow. Who couldn't have seen that coming?

robbie_998

CIE wrote: »

Wow. Who couldn't have seen that coming?

Dublin Bus Clearly.

dfx-

Driver of AV337 tonight not picking up on the Tyrconnell Rd post-match while in service. AX525 picked up the slack 5 minutes later.

One robust elder lady on crutches made sure AX525 didn't pull the same trick by standing in the middle of the road. Definitely one of the funnier things I've seen recently, she was determined that bus was going to stop either way :pac: