Dublin Bus Network Review

dfx-

Just looking at my inbound stop for the 13 there at 1714..

There's a 68 due at 1734, a 69 at 1748 and the next 13 is....1757, then another at 1807.

Now what do we believe...the gap of 43 minutes, that there will actually be a bus at 1757 or that there will be another one (or even one at all) following behind at 1807...:)

Edit: A 13 due at 1742 has now appeared suddenly - yay!

Dodge

Similar happened me with 13 last night. Went from 54 minutes to 22 in a flash

This evening 2 arrived together and the next one was due in 5...

starviewadams

I got a 13 into town from Clondalkin last Friday evening and the driver told me when I got on that he was only going as far as O'Connell Street.I was only going into Trinity anyhow so it didn't bother me but I assume he was doing this to regulate the service?

robbie_998

got a 13 back from town today....

sign said 15 mins.

all of a sudden it added another one and said due.

it came and the driver was saying he had only started on o connell street that they cant keep up with times.

Aard

I think there might be similar issues with the 14. Not as bad as the 13, mind. Twice in the last week, one bus has caught up with the other, and passengers were moved to the second one. If the real-time displays are anything to go by, it seems that in the evening southbound there's only about 5 minutes between them sometimes and then a huge gap. I don't know about the technical side, but it's relatively inconvenient to have to hang around Braemor Road for a few minutes just to be changed to another bus. Not as inconvenient though as for the people in town waiting more than 20 minutes for the next one.

LXFlyer

Aard wrote: »

I think there might be similar issues with the 14. Not as bad as the 13, mind. Twice in the last week, one bus has caught up with the other, and passengers were moved to the second one. If the real-time displays are anything to go by, it seems that in the evening southbound there's only about 5 minutes between them sometimes and then a huge gap. I don't know about the technical side, but it's relatively inconvenient to have to hang around Braemor Road for a few minutes just to be changed to another bus. Not as inconvenient though as for the people in town waiting more than 20 minutes for the next one.

I've noticed since the colleges have gone back that the 14 is struggling at certain times of the day.

Dyr

Aard wrote: »

I think there might be similar issues with the 14. Not as bad as the 13, mind. Twice in the last week, one bus has caught up with the other, and passengers were moved to the second one. If the real-time displays are anything to go by, it seems that in the evening southbound there's only about 5 minutes between them sometimes and then a huge gap. I don't know about the technical side, but it's relatively inconvenient to have to hang around Braemor Road for a few minutes just to be changed to another bus. Not as inconvenient though as for the people in town waiting more than 20 minutes for the next one.

the "gas" thing is when they pull that stunt it screws the customer..I was on one 4 that caught up with another and the drivers piled all the passengers into the one bus. The bus fills up (although there were empty seats upstairs) and the driver then sails past the next few stops leaving commuters stranded. So they've actually now missed two 4's and will be left waiting on the next...

backboiler

Alek (Smart),
do you, as a driver, have any statistics to hand on how many of the 11 route buses are not making it to the terminus for their departures since the reality of morning traffic has taken effect?
Due to holidays and other messing I've been away from the route for most of the last two months but any time I did go for a morning departure from Wadelai (usually between 09:00 and 10:00) the bus didn't show up. Buses did eventually show up but up to 40 minutes late (plus whatever waiting time they might have had scheduled at terminus before departure) because of heavy traffic. By that stage most intending passengers had wandered off to B'mun Road to find a 4/9/13, although we did overtake one or two caught between stops. Hate that... :mad:

Seems to me from this admittedly limited experience like there's a bus or two too few on the route now.

AlekSmart

backboiler wrote: »

Alek (Smart),
do you, as a driver, have any statistics to hand on how many of the 11 route buses are not making it to the terminus for their departures since the reality of morning traffic has taken effect?
Due to holidays and other messing I've been away from the route for most of the last two months but any time I did go for a morning departure from Wadelai (usually between 09:00 and 10:00) the bus didn't show up. Buses did eventually show up but up to 40 minutes late (plus whatever waiting time they might have had scheduled at terminus before departure) because of heavy traffic. By that stage most intending passengers had wandered off to B'mun Road to find a 4/9/13, although we did overtake one or two caught between stops. Hate that... :mad:

Seems to me from this admittedly limited experience like there's a bus or two too few on the route now.

Unfortunately Backboiler,I'm not of sufficient importance to be graced with ststistics...

However suffice to say,the reality of a fleet reduction in the order of 200 vehicles and 350 drivers has to have an impact upon levels of service.

As you say,whilst the Schools & Colleges were in recess the situation was managable,but the reality of normal life has intruded somewhat rudely upon the general principle of Network Direct.

You are broadly correct in that the loss of buses and duties on the 11 route has impacted upon what had been,in recent times,a generally reliable route,this has to be regretted, although sadly inevitable.

Perhaps the worst element of this is the realization that the alternative routes you mention are now also experiencing significant problems in their own right,which is of no comfort to those seeking alternatives,as Network Direct was expected to offer.

The reality,I feel is that in times of recession such as we are experiencing,it would be prudent to maintain,or even expand,the availability of affordable,broadbased Public Transport making full(er) utilization of existing resources.

Unfortunately,as we are currently witnessing,reality appears to suggest that the Public Transport option will be less reliable,of reduced frequency and considerably more expensive in the coming years...I am suggesting that the Government needs to put some more thought into it,s Public Transport policies.

I hope this is not too negative a response to your post,as the only other suggestion I can make is to keep reporting the occurences to the BAC Network Direct address...?

backboiler

AlekSmart wrote: »

Unfortunately Backboiler,I'm not of sufficient importance to be graced with ststistics...

Don't let the bastards get you down

starviewadams

Was waiting nearly 25 minutes for a 13 today and the information sign kept saying 2 mins,due,and then the 13 would dissappear off the sign.

Then two 13's eventually showed up together and both were packed by the time they reached James Hospital.This was between 2 and 3pm today so traffic can't be an excuse cos it was fairly light.

AlekSmart

starviewadams wrote: »

Was waiting nearly 25 minutes for a 13 today and the information sign kept saying 2 mins,due,and then the 13 would dissappear off the sign.

Then two 13's eventually showed up together and both were packed by the time they reached James Hospital.This was between 2 and 3pm today so traffic can't be an excuse cos it was fairly light.

Sadly,from the feedback quite apparent to Busdrivers,the 13 scenario is almost a carbon copy of the original mishandling of the first Network Direct alterations on the 145 almost 12 months ago.

Once again,and equally disappointing to note,the core issue appears to be running-time,particularly at peaks.

I took far too long to respond to the original 145 issues,but once addressed it allowed that route to regain some semblance of reliability.

Hopefully the 13 situation will not be allowed to stumble on in the same manner as it benefits NOBODY.

Dodge

waited 25 minutes for a 13 today, to have it pass by me. Grrrr

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

I took far too long to respond to the original 145 issues,but once addressed it allowed that route to regain some semblance of reliability.
.

So it was your fault eh? to late now, the info's out!!!
:P:P

Dub13

I got a 14 today from the northside,got talking to the driver and he was telling me that DB are refusing to put 14C on the scroll.This is causing huge trouble when they are only running into the city,while it will say 14 city center not many people are look that close.This is causing both drivers and customers a lot of hassel.

Why would they not put 14C on....?works well on the 16.

thomasj

both the last 39 and 39a to ongar didn't arrive on Aston quay until 23:45 tonight. anyone have any idea what was the holdup especially given both the 37 and 70 left just after 23:30

on a positive note took the 39a. it took just over 15 minutes to get home to hartstown!

TheChrisD

Just found out, rather annoyingly by having to wait for an hour, that the 70 intermediate timetable for departures from Aston Quay doesn't match up with the departures from Baggot Street.

Aston Quay claims the 70's will stop at 1940 and 2040, but they actually leave Baggot Street at 1920 and 2020 :mad:

dfx-

First experience of post-match post Network Direct Tallaght bus service. A bunch of about 40 people still outside the Square inbound at 2140 despite the game ending at 2055.

First things first, a 77A. No 27s. No 56A. No 65s. One 75, one 49 and a 76 which took practically nobody. Check the RTPI at 2120, no inbound 27 until at least 2155. Several regular post-match customers lost to delighted passing taxis. Appalling.

Pre-match, two 27s together, one full, one near empty. (AV416 full and AV42 behind).

AngryLips

dfx- wrote: »

First experience of post-match post Network Direct Tallaght bus service. A bunch of about 40 people still outside the Square inbound at 2140 despite the game ending at 2055.

First things first, a 77A. No 27s. No 56A. No 65s. One 75, one 49 and a 76 which took practically nobody. Check the RTPI at 2120, no inbound 27 until at least 2155. Several regular post-match customers lost to delighted passing taxis. Appalling.

Pre-match, two 27s together, one full, one near empty. (AV416 full and AV42 behind).

How is this related to Network Direct?

Anyway, here is an interesting article from today's IT:

DUBLIN BUS schedules reflected new traffic levels, Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar told the Dáil. He supported the company’s efforts to achieve greater efficiency and effectiveness under the network direct programme and significant efficiencies and savings had already been achieved.
“Given the losses recorded by Dublin Bus in 2010 and further reductions in the PSO subvention due over the coming years, it is important that the Deloitte report and the network direct programme are fully delivered upon to ensure the viability of the service.”
Mr Varadkar said the Deloitte cost and efficiency review of Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann was published in January 2009. While it found Bus Éireann to be largely efficient, it identified scope for great efficiencies in Dublin Bus.
Following the report, Dublin Bus undertook an extensive network review and announced its plans for the reorganisation of routes and timetables.
“The objective of the redesign is to provide current and future bus customers with a service that will be modern, accessible, integrated, easy to understand, punctual and frequent,” he added. It was delivering real and tangible benefits to the vast majority of bus users.
“For example, when completed later this year, there will be a doubling in routes with frequency of 10 minutes or better,” he added.
“A total of 60 per cent of customers will be carried on high-frequency routes, whereas this stood at 23 per cent previously.”
The Minister was replying to Dublin Mid West TD Derek Keating (FG) who said the reorganisation of routes was not working. He had attended many consultation meetings, he said, and his abiding memory was how the issues raised by people were not addressed in the consultation process.

dfx-

AngryLips wrote: »

How is this related to Network Direct?

Frequency decreasing maybe? A 27 every 30 minutes instead of a 77 if they stay on time..no 50, a 56A every 75 minutes, a very very long 77A instead of its departure from the Square..it's not hard to associate the two.

AngryLips

dfx- wrote: »

Frequency decreasing maybe? A 27 every 30 minutes instead of a 77 if they stay on time..no 50, a 56A every 75 minutes, a very very long 77A instead of its departure from the Square..it's not hard to associate the two.

But this is in relation to a once-off event. It remains to be seen if they were even notified by the event organisers...

dfx-

Rovers normally play later on a Friday. I don't think the service will be any better at 10pm than 9pm on the same weekday service.

KD345

thomasj wrote: »

both the last 39 and 39a to ongar didn't arrive on Aston quay until 23:45 tonight. anyone have any idea what was the holdup especially given both the 37 and 70 left just after 23:30

on a positive note took the 39a. it took just over 15 minutes to get home to hartstown!

The last 39 actually comes from UCD and there can be a taxi jam on many sections of the route into town.

I've noticed many of the last buses having trouble with these traffic jams. It's not uncommon to see the last northbound 9/13/83/122 etc. only reach their main city centre stop at about 11.40/11.45.

Miss Lockhart

lxflyer wrote: »

The 76/a/b have not changed - the current routings and timetables are continuing for the moment.

No indications yet as to when the changes will be implemented.

Thanks for the reply - haven't been online for a while.

My confusion stemmed from the statement on this page on Dublin Bus website, stating that:

"These improvements will be implemented on Sunday 2nd October"

I know it goes on to say that "changes will be made to the 76 timetable at a later date" - but I mistakenly took this to mean changes to the actual timing of the buses.

It's not very clear to me anyway.

honru

KD345 wrote: »

The last 39 actually comes from UCD and there can be a taxi jam on many sections of the route into town.

Also currently there's major roadworks going on during the night hours on Donnybrook Road.

Flukey

It is getting worse and worse. Getting on a bus now has become like picking a lottery number. You have absolutely no idea where it may go. Those standing at stops that their well known route served for years but unbeknown to them no longer does so, are like the people who pick numbers that never come out of the drum. So we have people waiting on buses that will never come and others getting on buses they know well, but finding they go to completely different places than they used to. You even have savvy bus users looking in bemusement with a "What is that doing driving along here?" look on their face as they see things like a 27 driving up Dame Street or a 13 going through Inchicore.

Did those that came up with this madness all do a Masters in stupidity somewhere? A normal person could not cock the system up more if they tried. With every new phase the term "Network They Wrecked" becomes more and more appropriate. At the rate they are going, it will soon become an understatement.

This is going out of the minister of transport's realm. The minister of health should intervene and get the organisers of this sectioned, in much the same way as the minister of justice should intervene to stop the extortion that are tolls and clampers. The department of transport is meant to be helping the transport system. They are destroying it.

BenShermin

Rumour has it that the 40/78a merger will be taking place in 3 weeks time. I've absolutely no source to back this rumour up, I'm just saying what I've heard!! Although this rumour does come from the same source that told me the 26 would be taken out of Ballyfermot 6 weeks before that actually happened, so...

Anyway, I'm glad that I've started getting back to cycling over the last few weeks and am planning on cycling to work, workmates have also offered to let me in on their carpool a few days a week in exchange for a few bob in petrol money.

I said earlier on in this thread that Dublin Bus would lose my custom if these changes go ahead, and hearing bad reports on the new route 13 and 27 makes it almost certain for me that I won't be renewing my Annual ticket come Dec.

Dodge

Flukey wrote: »

You even have savvy bus users looking in bemusement with a "What is that doing driving along here?" look on their face as they see things like a 27 driving up Dame Street or a 13 going through Inchicore.

13 should be going through Inchicore...

KD345

Flukey wrote: »

It is getting worse and worse. Getting on a bus now has become like picking a lottery number. You have absolutely no idea where it may go.

I wouldn't agree. What problems are you having understanding where your route goes? There is a stop map for each route online and on the app.

Flukey wrote: »

Those standing at stops that their well known route served for years but unbeknown to them no longer does so, are like the people who pick numbers that never come out of the drum. So we have people waiting on buses that will never come and others getting on buses they know well, but finding they go to completely different places than they used to.

You make it sound like it's a secretive operation. It's not. Route numbers have changed, as have some routings. There has been widespread information campaigns informing passengers of the changes. If these passengers choose to ignore this information then there is little more Dublin Bus can do.

Flukey wrote: »

You even have savvy bus users looking in bemusement with a "What is that doing driving along here?" look on their face as they see things like a 27 driving up Dame Street or a 13 going through Inchicore.

The 27 should be on Dame Street, as should the 13 be in Inchicore. It might look different, but that doesn't mean people don't understand the route. Your post is full of assumptions about bus users in Dublin which I think is a bit unfair. Many people got to grips with the change on their route within a few days, in fact, many of them understood the changes weeks before they happened. For example, I have overheard elderly passengers on board a 78A discuss how the route will soon be the 40 and running to Finglas.

Flukey

KD345, I am well aware of all of the changes, but the point is, information campaign or not, a lot of people are not aware. So people will be getting on these routes expecting them to go where they've always gone and people will be looking for routes that have been terminated and some people will be wondering why they are seeing some buses on streets where they don't usually see them. Their first assumptions would be that they are going back to the garage or on then seeing there are people onboard, that they have the wrong number up. With some of the routes going to radically different places, like a 13 heading out towards Clondalkin rather than Merrion Square, or Ranelagh, as it would have years ago, this adds further confusion. Regular users tend just to look at the number of the bus, not the destination and so if they are not aware of the changes they'll wonder why a bus suddenly turns off its previously normal route. Others, on seeing a number just ignore it and not look at where it is going to, although it may be the new route for their destination.

Changing routes while keeping them more or less on the same route is not too bad, but with routes now having completely different destinations, even if it is just a large extension of the current route, it will confuse people. On top of that, with the large extension of some routes completely getting rid of others, further confusion will apply. So people seeing a 13 going through Inchicore or a 27 along Dame Street are going to be confused for some time to come, no matter what we all know here. The question has to be asked as to whether longer routes are more efficient and would it not have been better to have left the 51s as they were and have the 13 just going on its merry way too, instead of cobbling together routes as has been done. Even some people using only sections of the routes as they were, will be confused when they see the destination on the front of the bus. All this may be a good idea in an office in Dublin Bus HQ, but out on the street it is not the same. Even the drivers are getting confused, as demonstrated by the need for so many signs to direct them.