[KEEP IT CIVIL] Wikileaks release Video of the murder of Iraqi civilians

starbelgrade

Proof that violent video games are a bad influence.

Dermighty

I guess if you're over in Iraq for a year and you're waiting around all day and the only action you've seen is one of your friends getting killed by an IED or something then you'd probably want to kill every Iraqi you see.

krudler

Shoulda had Cold Blooded and Stingers in their loadouts, would have taken the plane down in no time. f'n noobs.

Midnight_EG

Huge thread about Wiki-leaks on AH containing this...ages ago!

dicey1664

shocking stuff

RichieC

I pity the dead and I pity the broken little men the US army churns out to fight their slaughters.

This can be seen a few different ways. I honestly can see why they engaged them, you don't wait to be fired at if you think someone else has an RPG. Yes one guy had a camera, but some of the others guys either had weapons, or had things that REALLY looked like weapons. This was in the middle of a warzone, not like they were hovering over a peaceful field or something.

There are almost always civilian casualties in these types of conflicts.

*Edit: On closer inspection, those soldiers in the Apache were dicks.

RichieC

Sacramento wrote: »

This can be seen a few different ways. I honestly can see why they engaged them, you don't wait to be fired at if you think someone else has an RPG. Yes one guy had a camera, but some of the others guys either had weapons, or had things that REALLY looked like weapons. This was in the middle of a warzone, not like they were hovering over a peaceful field or something.

That chopper was over a mile away from them.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Seen that a few times, and my sense of utter revolution grows strong each time.

Its sickening.

MagicMarker

Sacramento wrote: »

This can be seen a few different ways. I honestly can see why they engaged them, you don't wait to be fired at if you think someone else has an RPG. Yes one guy had a camera, but some of the others guys either had weapons, or had things that REALLY looked like weapons. This was in the middle of a warzone, not like they were hovering over a peaceful field or something.

There are almost always civilian casualties in these types of conflicts.

If only the helicopter had some means of escape.........oh wait.

AnonymousPrime

(had to do it)

MagicMarker

MagicMarker wrote: »

If only the helicopter had some means of escape.........oh wait.

RichieC wrote: »

That chopper was over a mile away from them.

Yeah I hear you, I'm just trying to explain why these dickheads were shooting at the people. Yes the chopper was a mile away from that group, but other aircraft or groundforces might not have been. I honestly don't know.

I was basically trying to say that if they saw what they thought to be hostiles, they should engage them after some discussion about what weapons they may have.

pablomakaveli

Seems to be a thing with some American soldiers. There was a program on Discovery about a battle in Iraq and one American tank driver described the experience as "like playing playstation".

They won't be like robots, when their using huge weapons and fighting in a war there's going to be enough adrenaline and testosterone around to make Arnold Schwarzenegger's neck veins pop out all the way back in California.

They'll say and do stupid **** and while we're sitting at home behind the comfort of a laptop screen all relaxed, they're going to seem like idiots. Much more so than if we were there next to them. They certainly won't be mistake free adventures over there, you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

Son Of A Vidic

I just watched the long version of that video and it's clearly a ‘fog of war’ situation going on. I saw some of the guys at the start openly carrying rifles, the journalist's could easily be mistaken to be carrying weapons and indeed this mistake occurred. They then all appear to gather near a street corner. When one of them is seen peeking around a corner with his camera/object, you can clearly hear the pilots mistaking it for a weapon about to be fired.

I can understand the pilot’s frustration as they waited to get the 'attackers' into view and then waited for permission to fire. Their natural instinct is to take out as many enemy combatants as possible and prevent their escape. Nothing unusual in those goals, given the environment that was Iraq I think.

Then as a journalist is crawling away wounded, you can hear one of the pilots mentioning that if he picks up a weapon they'll fire. Nothing wrong there again, if anything it's highlighting the rules of engagement in action. Then a van appears, none of its occupants attempted or appeared to wave a white flag or wave their hands in the air ect. This of course is a universally recognised gesture, which would have indicated they were non-combatants, unarmed or were surrendering.

So it's easy to understand, how it appeared that the rest of the attack team came into rescue survivors. Because that's how I perceived it myself, since no hands or flags ect were waved in the air. I think those pilots genuinely thought they were getting the rest of the attack team.

Near the end the Wiki leaks team obviously zoomed in closer to highlight children sitting in the van. When I watched the video live and raw, my personal focus was on the men getting out of and running around the van and then collecting the wounded man. So again I can understand how it appeared that this van came along to collect a ‘team’ member who survived the attacked. The zoom footage was not very clear to me, but again that’s subjective.

What I’m basically saying is that I would have perceived the whole situation exactly the way those pilots did. It might have been wrong, but looking at the whole video I think it was an unintentional error on their part. Sadly that’s what happens in the ‘fog of war’ situation unfortunately. I’ve no doubt this video would never have been leaked, if journalists hadn’t of died in the incident. Sadly that’s the real hypocrisy of it all

Voodu Child

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Then a van appears, none of its occupants attempted or appeared to wave a white flag or wave their hands in the air ect. This of course is a universally recognised gesture, which would have indicated they were non-combatants, unarmed or were surrendering.

Wave a white flag at what? The van passed by after the event and the helicopter was at least a mile away. The occupants had no idea there were some trigger happy fcukwits watching them on a TV screen and itching to shoot them.

whatsamsn

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Seems to be a thing with some American soldiers. There was a program on Discovery about a battle in Iraq and one American tank driver described the experience as "like playing playstation".

Thats the thing video games like call of duty are war similators. And hey im a mid 20s guy who has played video games all his life who also played nearly every Call of duty game.

COD is a massive franchise. I would be willing to say since COD Modern Warfare was released the army (etc) have had a whole lot of new people joining.

But!
That statement of "its like playing playstation" makes that guy a total fool. Big difference between sitting in a chair playing a game, knowing if you die you just retry ... and being in a real life situation with bullets flying past your head :rolleyes:

Son Of A Vidic

Voodu Child wrote: »

Wave a white flag at what? The van passed by after the event and the helicopter was at least a mile away. The occupants had no idea there were some trigger happy fcukwits watching them on a TV screen and itching to shoot them.

The van didn't pass by anywhere, it actually drove up and into the scene of the attack. Did the helicopter tell you it was a mile away? Would you walk/drive into a street full of bodies and assume enemy combatants weren't still observing the area? Because that's one really huge leap of faith to make right there. I wouldn't call guys waiting on permission to fire, or waiting for a suspect to pick up a gun as being 'trigger happy'.

RichieC

Apologist, love to see your reasoning if they were Iraqis in the helicopter and the great white hope scrambling for their lives.

partyatmygaff

Voodu Child wrote: »

Wave a white flag at what? The van passed by after the event and the helicopter was at least a mile away. The occupants had no idea there were some trigger happy fcukwits watching them on a TV screen and itching to shoot them.

The van drivers are still at fault though. Why have they got children out in a van in the middle of a warzone? Secondly, surely they must have realised there's a helicopter in the area, those missiles didn't just rain down from the stratosphere.

RichieC

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The van drivers are still at fault though. Why have they got children out in a van in the middle of a warzone? Secondly, surely they must have realised there's a helicopter in the area, those missiles didn't just rain down from the stratosphere.

that 'warzone' is their fking home... jesus wept..

Blame the victim card. -10.

game over.

chillywilly

starbelgrade wrote: »

Proof that violent video games are a bad influence.

Proof that if you are already f*cked up in the head you will be influenced by video games.

ScumLord

krudler wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAscuD4loh8

Scarily accurate in Call of Duty 4 aint it?

Except in Call of Duty your not allowed to shot the civilians.

whatsamsn

This is just all about what side of the coin your on...

if you're in the US helicopter. See someone with what looks to be holding a weapon (camera in this case) then see others with weapons. You will ask to engage. You are not going to wait until they start firing.

If on the flip side you are just standing around there that is horrbile what the americans did. Opening up on unarmed people.

As for the van:
US side:
Whats seen to be more soldiers coming to pick up bodies, but more so picking up weapons to be used again. You dont want that.

Their side:
Trying to help the wounded and save some lives.


Side of the coin.

Son Of A Vidic

RichieC wrote: »

Apologist, love to see your reasoning if they were Iraqis in the helicopter and the great white hope scrambling for their lives.

I'm certainly no apologist for the yanks, fcuk a couple of days ago I was accused of being anti-American in another thread. But ya gotta love AH for it though. I looked at a video, the whole version and I honestly come to the conclusion that I also would have misinterpreted what was happening on the ground. That makes me neither pro or anti american.

Overheal

MagicMarker wrote: »

WTF! This is from last year but I'm only seeing it myself for the first time tonight, so apologies if you've seen it already.

It seems to me that U.S soldiers are shooting random unarmed men now, and when they're down and wounded and someone comes to help them, they get shot too! I mean wtf!!? The nonchalant attitude of the guys pulling the trigger is kind of disturbing also.

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Dude: 567 Posts. We've had this thread. Enjoy

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055875276&highlight=apache

whatsamsn

chillywilly wrote: »

Proof that if you are already f*cked up in the head you will be influenced by video games.

Agreed.
As i said above. i've played games all my life. Even COD and I can tell people who dont play video games something ... > Video games do not influence your average person. At best games like COD might inspire people to join the armed forces.


But of course there are some nutters out there. But thats them being nuts and not a certain entertainment product 'making' them that way.

RichieC

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I'm certainly no apologist for the yanks, fcuk a couple of days ago I was accused of being anti-American in another thread. But ya gotta love AH for it though. I looked at a video, the whole version and I honestly come to the conclusion that I also would have misinterpreted what was happening on the ground. That makes me neither pro or anti american.

Have you seen the other video released by wikileaks? were they level a building suspected of housing "terrorists".

A man walks by the building and do the yanks hold off the firing order until he passes? like Fk they do...

Disgraceful lack of humanity in that country, seems the only humans they care about are the yet to be born.

partyatmygaff

RichieC wrote: »

that 'warzone' is their fking home... jesus wept..

Blame the victim card. -10.

game over.

Their home it may be but that doesn't stop it from being a warzone.

Son Of A Vidic

RichieC wrote: »

Have you seen the other video released by wikileaks? were they level a building suspected of housing "terrorists".

A man walks by the building and do the yanks hold off the firing order until he passes? like Fk they do...

Disgraceful lack of humanity in that country, seems the only humans they care about are the yet to be born.

As I said in the post you quoted, I'm no apologist for the yanks. I haven't seen that video you're referring to, so I can't really comment on it to be honest. But I've no reason to doubt the content you mentioned. I generally stay off 'bandwagons' and like to make up my own mind about things.