[KEEP IT CIVIL] Wikileaks release Video of the murder of Iraqi civilians

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

I only wish an 'armchair pacifist' was a soundbite, instead it is usually some disillusionist who does not have the capability or balls to confront the aggressor pretending instead to score cheap points in a war zone.

Pacifism means being against war, in all of its guises. Nothing to do with not having the balls to stand up to anyone, in many cases it takes more balls to stand up to those selling the idea of war. And who exactly is the aggressor in the case of this war in your opinion?

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Sadly Herbie, if that is what you believe, then you must dream on.

war is the most basic and simplest response. that doesn't mean it's good or it's the only response to a problem. notice how I used the word response instead of solution

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Come on 'selling war' ? Are you for real? Don't believe all that lovey-dovey pacifist ideology crap! Wars happen, whatever the reasons and someone has to sort it out, if the UN cannot do it, it is usually USA + Nato ++?

So what are doing to prevent the infiltration of extreme views in the region and what would you do (differently) in Ireland? Write a letter to Irish Times?

Sorry mate, the invasion of Iraq was not a war, Iraq was simply trampled on by the US, still is.
Stop calling it a war. Iraq was on it's knees long before the invasion mostly because of sanctions and partly because of the myopic dictatorship of Saddam, remember who put him there hmmm.
Iraq were in no fit state to fight a war, but I suppose that suited the US down to the ground.

Gigiwagga wrote: »

Sorry mate, the invasion of Iraq was not a war, Iraq was simply trampled on by the US, still is.
Stop calling it a war. Iraq was on it's knees long before the invasion mostly because of sanctions and partly because of the myopic dictatorship of Saddam, remember who put him there hmmm.
Iraq were in no fit state to fight a war, but I suppose that suited the US down to the ground.

Yes Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was an act of war, and the US + Allied forces responded. The whole incident involving WMD remains unclear but when politics fail, anarchy usually prevails leading to bloodshed.

After the removal of Sadam etc what or who is going to restore peace in the region? Who is going to police this melting pot?

jackiebaron wrote: »

They particularly like to assassinate camera crews and reporters who might print or film something that would shed light on the daily deliberate atrocities inflicted by them.

I'd very much delight in seeing you back this up with substantiated evidence. Seeing as how you've - basically - just claimed that the Military has a Doctrine of killing News Reporters.

Im not even getting back into this helicopter attack, theres 14-35 pages (depending on your boards settings) to read through and I've posted in a lot of it about it, you're welcome to read it. In my view, I can see how those reporters were mistaken to be carrying weapons.

Aside from that, you're making the claim that on a whole - This incident, and presumably others like it - that the Military has a Policy of killing reporters 'who see what the US doesnt want them to see.'

Fair enough, thats your woefully misguided opinion. But when you state it matter of factly, I'm going to call you on it; and expect you to back it up.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Yes Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was an act of war, and the US + Allied forces responded. The whole incident involving WMD remains unclear but when politics fail, anarchy usually prevails leading to bloodshed.

After the removal of Sadam etc what or who is going to restore peace in the region? Who is going to police this melting pot?

That's convenient, not in the least bit unclear, it just suits US policy to make it so. To the vast majority of informed people it is crystal clear.

Are you suggesting that Iraq is a better place now after Saddam's removal ?

You're joking surely.

To even justify the invasion is ridiculous. Taking the invasion as a 'jumping off point' all actions carried out against Iraqi citizens were crimes against humanity, including the killing of supposed 'insurgents'. Because these people have every right to defend their homeland as I would mine.
See, I'm not a pacifist, I would not lie down and accept the US boot heel if I were Iraqi, I would defend my family, my culture and my country, wouldn't you?

Get over it, if you support the invasion of Iraq you support crimes against humanity, as would be the case if you supported the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait , or the invasion of Palestinian Territory by Israeli forces, ie conquest is bad s***.
Oh and if Iran invaded a neighbouring country it would be equally bad s*** too.

If you support the invasion of another sovereign state you have negated your own humanity.

If a man goes out in his neighbourhood and rapes and assaults with impunity, and laws exist against these acts he will be dealt with appropriately. If there are no laws, or if he make up his own laws, he will not be made account.
Unless of course when he returns from his raping and pillaging and find his own family destroyed. Would that be fair?
The US make up their own laws in Iraq, they answer to no one, like the rapist above. How can they be surprised when 'insurgents' want to kill them, how can they be surprised when some extremist wants to attack the US. If I was the US I wouldn't be surprised.
But I'm not the US. I believe in 'Live and let live' or treat others as you wish to be treated. Anything else is a crime against humanity.

The US motto seems to be "We Kick A**"

End of rant

Gigiwagga wrote: »

What has OUR sleeping safe in our beds got to do with carnage carried out by US troops in Iraq. The world has become a helluva lot less safe since the US's 'Freedom Crusade' in Iraq. What battle were these Iraqis involved in. There is no 'battle' in Iraq, just an occupied country and it's oppressed people.
Good for you justifying murder, because that was what this was, these people were not the enemy were they, unless all Iraqis are the enemy, than why not just exterminate the lot...oh I forgot the Iraqis are needed to do the menial work and for target practice.

I'm not a fan of the Iraq war and certainly feel it could have been done better, but they Iraqi people were certainly "oppressed" long before the allied forces invaded, and if they were to suddenly up and out like it seems most pacifists want, Al-Qaeda, Taliban and the likes would pour in and enforce Sharia law while quality of life significantly drops below what they have now.

I'd prefer the Americans stay there, restore some form of peace and rebuild the country rather than rushing out now to leave the extremists pour in and ****ing up Iraq even worse than it already us.

Gigiwagga wrote: »

If you support the invasion of another sovereign state you have negated your own humanity.

Questionable, If I supported the invasion of a country to end a genocide like what was occurring in Sudan only 3 years ago, or if I supported the invasion of Israel to end their blockade on Palestine am I still negating my own humanity if it's improving the the quality of others?

Nodin wrote: »

Unless you were South East Asian, Latin American.....

Palestinian...

Manic Moran wrote: »

Absolutely no sympathy. The man had a security clearance level I've been trying to get for over a year, and abused it.



Yes, himself. For an MI guy, he was pretty stupid. First rule of keeping a secret: Once you tell someone, it's not a secret any more.



You really think so? What has the fallout actually been? Did governments fall, people resign, or did the incident even receive the same level of international visibility as the Gaza flotilla last week? It just showed that the reporter was associating with insurgents and was killed as a result. Fantastic, well worth destroying your life over.

NTM

So you aren't going to admit your involvement with the Extraterrestrials of Omicron Persei 8?

Amalgam wrote: »

of course the release of the video was\is 'valid'.

I dont think he said it wasnt? Just that it was stupid to throw your career on.

Videos like this have to come out every week, every day.

If only there was enough scandal to go around once a day, or week. Or enough personnel with the clearance willing to abuse it for the sake of the latest viral.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Off the armchair and come back with solutions. Nobody said war is good, it may be necessary, it may be just, it is certainly bloody and sometimes it is the only means to finding a longterm sustainable peace (ie solution).

I just don't think I will ever see sending young men off to fight for some schite a solution. ahm sorry:o

RMD wrote: »

I'm not a fan of the Iraq war and certainly feel it could have been done better, but they Iraqi people were certainly "oppressed" long before the allied forces invaded, and if they were to suddenly up and out like it seems most pacifists want, Al-Qaeda, Taliban and the likes would pour in and enforce Sharia law while quality of life significantly drops below what they have now.

I'd prefer the Americans stay there, restore some form of peace and rebuild the country rather than rushing out now to leave the extremists pour in and ****ing up Iraq even worse than it already us.



Questionable, If I supported the invasion of a country to end a genocide like what was occurring in Sudan only 3 years ago, or if I supported the invasion of Israel to end their blockade on Palestine am I still negating my own humanity if it's improving the the quality of others?

well who the fukk do they think they are to decide what another country should be like? would you like it if some country thought our laws were to capitalist/socialist/whatever and that we were being oppressed as a result, and came and invaded our country? of course not. it is completely unjustifiable.

I feel so sick now It's so easy for the horror that so many people have to live through to not to really sink in until you acually see real people running in terror and desperately trying to crawl to safety. What a sh*t species we are.