Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

Save the sarcastic 'Sigh' mate!! The fact is that passengers are inconvenienced. Now whether it's twenty or a hundred is irrelevant. And the other point here is that it's a further scaling back of an already substandard service. Your 'sigh' attitude smacks of the CIE bad attitude! The whereabouts of the drivers place of abode is also irrelevant as it, surely, is up to him to find his way to work the same as a private sector worker would have to. The sooner they privatise CIE and eliminate these lazy articles, that find performing the bare minimum of their work an inconvenience, the better!!!

With the greatest of respect if there is ongoing maintenance work, what do you expect them to do?

2 trains are affected, both of which cause minimal disruption as the loads are low.

My sigh was put in because everyone is disrupted - drivers and passengers. You were suggesting that it all revolved around drivers which it does not.

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

With the greatest of respect if there is ongoing maintenance work, what do you expect them to do?

2 trains are affected, both of which cause minimal disruption as the loads are low.

My sigh was put in because everyone is disrupted - drivers and passengers. You were suggesting that it all revolved around drivers which it does not.

And my point was that if there is the said maintenance work, how come it doesn't affect the DART? If it is that the train can't get away early enough in the morning, why not just bring it back down straight away after passengers have alighted in Dublin so it's out of the way before the works start? Simple.... No?

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

And my point was that if there is the said maintenance work, how come it doesn't affect the DART? If it is that the train can't get away early enough in the morning, why not just bring it back down straight away after passengers have alighted in Dublin so it's out of the way before the works start? Simple.... No?

I've answered that before. The maintenance is taking place between 0100 and 0500 between Connolly and Bray - there are no DART movements during that time. Hence the DART is unaffected. The two trains that are affected are the two empty trains from Connolly to Gorey and Enniscorthy that leave after 0400.

Going with your idea, you would then have to employ another driver to bring the train back to Gorey at 2230 or so, who would then presumably have to get a taxi back to Dublin. - given driver resources are at a premium and the limited number of passengers that are being discommoded would that be a fair use of resources?

Our man in Havana

Or he sleeps in Gorey and drives the 0555 back to Dublin.

Ham'nd'egger

Haddockman wrote: »

Or he sleeps in Gorey and drives the 0555 back to Dublin.

Which is not very practical if he lives in Dublin.

Our man in Havana

The auld overnight allowance would soften the blow.

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

I've answered that before. The maintenance is taking place between 0100 and 0500 between Connolly and Bray - there are no DART movements during that time. Hence the DART is unaffected. The two trains that are affected are the two empty trains from Connolly to Gorey and Enniscorthy that leave after 0400.

Going with your idea, you would then have to employ another driver to bring the train back to Gorey at 2230 or so, who would then presumably have to get a taxi back to Dublin. - given driver resources are at a premium and the limited number of passengers that are being discommoded would that be a fair use of resources?

Or he could get the bus back up? There's one every hour! It's deemed to be good enough for the pesky passengers so it's bound to be adequate for an important train driver? Or else lets be really crazy here and couple the trains and use one driver.....

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

Or he could get the bus back up? There's one every hour! It's deemed to be good enough for the pesky passengers so it's bound to be adequate for an important train driver? Or else lets be really crazy here and couple the trains and use one driver.....

I don't think you're getting the point.

Both of the morning trains are operated by Dublin Connolly based drivers - as are the 1630 and 1730 trains from Dublin.

The two drivers in the evening are getting the bus back as it is when the engineering works are on.

Drivers are then travelling down each morning to operate the morning services.

What you're looking for would require an additional driver over this to bring the set that works the 1930 ex-Wexford back to Gorey if it were to work back to Dublin.

In the current climate that is simply not economically viable.

Southsider1

Ok so park the trains in Bray or Greystones overnight only a short trip for the poor overworked driver in the morning. Plenty DART drivers manage to make their way to Bray station. Or maybe even use the drivers based in Rosslare whose hassle of getting over and back to Waterford brought about the closure of that line.

Sorry if I seem like a dog with a bone here, but I work in the private sector and we tend to always put the customer first and we work around obstacles all the time for the good of our customers. Sadly, I don't believe IE do likewise.

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

Ok so park the trains in Bray or Greystones overnight only a short trip for the poor overworked driver in the morning. Plenty DART drivers manage to make their way to Bray station. Or maybe even use the drivers based in Rosslare whose hassle of getting over and back to Waterford brought about the closure of that line.

Sorry if I seem like a dog with a bone here, but I work in the private sector and we tend to always put the customer first and we work around obstacles all the time for the good of our customers. Sadly, I don't believe IE do likewise.

So do I but I have some understanding that it is not always possible to do everything.

I could understand this if you were talking about trains that are busy but the two trains involved are usually carrying more thin air than passengers.

dowlingm

The reality is that there should be a depot on the Wicklow line to cut the amount of deadheading at all hours, preferably south of Bray Head to have contingency maintenance/storage against more rockfalls. If they don't want to move to Gorey or Arklow or Greystones, those Connolly drivers should be (for instance) doing an early Enterprise so that people can get to Belfast before it's time to go for lunch!

Judgement Day

Anyway, as Doomsday (July 21st) grows ever closer with the DTA unlikely to rock the boat I came across this letter - one of many that I sent down the years - to FG chief whip Paul Kehoe. Needless to say I never received a response to the suggestion of reinstating the Rosslare Strand avoiding curve as part of a re-thought out Transport 21. Fine Gael's last election manifesto was very thin on Transport matters as Olivia Mitchell hadn't a clue about her brief - unsurprisingly Fergus O'Dowd later got the job but proved just as useless and now we have another lightweight Simon Coveney. Just in case anybody thinks that FG might actually have a policy on the Waterford/Rosslare they can drop the bold Simon an email at simon.coveney@oir.ie - I know I will!




Railways in the south east 1906/1911
Actually this map is from a 1934 Great Southern Railways leaflet which included the avoiding curve which had been lifted a mere 23 years earlier. :rolleyes:

Hungerford

Just to add some fuel to the fire, there's a piece in this month's Modern Railways which indicates that IE's demand survey revealed that a three services each way a day timetable would cut the line's losses by 25%.

Meanwhile, loan factors per service would increase to over 40% - a ten-fold increase in passengers per service. Based on those figures, passenger numbers would increase to around 0.5m per year. Goodness knows what a more regular service would do.

Anyway, Tricky Dicky has decided the line has to close so they are focusing on the loss rather than the latent demand their own figures are revealing.

purplepanda

Why am I not surprised????? :rolleyes:

This rundown & closure of the Rosslare - Waterford line is nothing but a vindictive nasty attack on the people of the South East by led by those with parochial agendas in IE & the government :mad::mad::mad:

And unlike the reopening of an knackered old railway like in the West this railway connection actually has a built in advantage over the competing road journey!!!!!

Any fool can see the overall picture for the future potential of this railway line, in commuter , tourist & regional connections to the rest of Ireland.:rolleyes:

Unless of course, you have your own personal priorities to the detriment of other regions ...... Step forward the gombeen politicans of the civil war parties :mad: that misrule the country!!!!:mad:

lord lucan

Rosslare-Waterford rail service to end.

IRISH RAIL has announced that it will “suspend” its Rosslare to Waterford service on July 21st. Local people believe it will never actually resume.

The State-owned subsidiary of CIÉ has blamed a steep fall in passenger numbers and said the line is no longer economically viable.
The service has been operating just once daily – in each direction – with no Sunday service.

A morning train departs from Rosslare Europort at 7am and wends through south Co Wexford with stops at the villages of Bridgetown, Wellington Bridge, Ballycullane and Campile before arriving at Waterford’s Plunkett Station at 8.20am. The return journey leaves Waterford at 5.20pm and terminates at 6.35pm.

Passengers about to board the train at Waterford last Thursday evening had mixed views about the line’s closure.

Richard Miskella (74) said “it’s a real pity but if it’s not paying they can’t run a train” and he’d be “happy enough if it’s replaced with a good bus service”.

Barry Kehoe (44) lives in Co Westmeath but was holidaying in his native Wexford and was taking his children, Amy (4) and Oisín (18 months), to Wellington Bridge where they were being collected by car. He had heard about the line’s closure and was embarking on the short journey “for nostalgic reasons”.

As the 100-seat train pulled away from the platform, there were only 17 passengers on board.

According to Irish Rail, the service has “experienced very low patronage for many years” with the train carrying on average “approximately 25 passengers”.

The company also pointed out that the sugar beet freight business, “which sustained the viability of the line”, ceased in 2006 following the demise of sugar manufacturing in Ireland.

The line also suffered from a decline in the number of foot passengers arriving on ferries at Rosslare.

The service cost €4 million a year to operate but generated only about €40,000 from ticket sales. The closure will result in some 30 job losses – among them keepers who operated a network of manned crossings – but there will be “no forced redundancies”. Meanwhile, the company plans to launch a replacement bus service on the route to be operated by Bus Éireann which will terminate at Waterford Institute of Technology – to the advantage of students who had been using the rail service but had then to make their own way to the campus some two miles away.

Irish Rail officials said that new legislation meant that the tracks on the Rosslare-Waterford line “can’t be torn up for at least 10 years” in case there is a change of heart.

The company would also “explore the possibility of establishing a heritage railway on the route with interested parties, which would be of benefit to tourism in the area”.

Officially, the rail service cannot be halted until Irish Rail receives formal approval from the National Transport Authority, a new body established last year by the Minister for Transport with “responsibility for securing the provision of public passenger land transport services”.

A spokeswoman said the authority would make its decision after considering correspondence from interested parties – despite there being “no provision for public consultation under the 2009 Public Transport Act”. The authority is expecting to receive a submission “by July 16th” from the South-East Regional Authority.

This Clonmel-based organisation, which describes itself “as a regional tier of government in Ireland” and “to the forefront in identifying, articulating and addressing the deficiencies, development needs and investment priorities of the region” has hired “a consortium of consultants” including “one from the UK” to prepare its submission. A spokesman said the consultants would be paid €26,000 which represented “good value”.

A request from The Irish Times to discuss the closure of the railway with the Green Party’s Minister of State with special responsibility for sustainable transport was declined. His office said: “Minister Ciarán Cuffe is not available for interview on the issue and he would like to give the following comment: ‘The proposed suspension of services on the Rosslare-Waterford rail line is an operational matter for CIÉ in conjunction with the National Transport Authority’.”

BACK ON TRACK MIDLETON TO CORK REOPENED LAST YEAR: LAST JULY Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey presided over the reopening of the Midleton to Cork railway line which had been closed 46 years earlier.

The restoration of the service, originally launched in the mid- 19th century, cost €75 million and was funded by the Government’s Transport 21 initiative.

The Minister told the assembled guests that “for over a century, Midleton station served the needs of the people of the area” but that “in time, like so many other local stations, it fell victim to economic change and, perhaps also, to what was then our growing national infatuation with the private car”.

However, “our economy began to grow, and we began to appreciate the need for greater public transport, both to improve the competitiveness of Ireland in attracting investment and to protect and preserve our environment”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0705/1224274035308.html

Hungerford

lord lucan wrote: »

IRISH RAIL has announced that it will “suspend” its Rosslare to Waterford service on July 21st. Local people believe it will never actually resume.

I think services won't be suspended on that date for two reasons:

1. They need NTA approval for the closure and that won't be forthcoming for a while yet.

2. They didn't issue a legal closure notice - I mean legal as in compliance with the 1958 Transport Act.

Nice to see IE preempting the NTA and the legal process once again though.

GM071class

Hungerford wrote: »

I think services won't be suspended on that date for two reasons:

1. They need NTA approval for the closure and that won't be forthcoming for a while yet.

2. They didn't issue a legal closure notice - I mean legal as in compliance with the 1958 Transport Act.

Nice to see IE preempting the NTA and the legal process once again though.

I thought they'd be able to suspend services without seeking approval first, as they could pull it off as for "operational reasons".

I'm left wondering though that if they close the South Wexford line, and then still keep losing money through operations, what line will be next?

Back in 2005/6 they blamed Unit-Load freight on huge losses, however they were writing off Intercity Losses as freight losses.
They seem to get an idea of 'what needs to be streamlined' and go for it bald headed!

Judgement Day

Typical piece of rubbish journalism from the Irish Times - 'the paper of record' - my hole! Why can't they ask the hard questions???? Why not send out Frank McDonald, one of the few journalists still employed by the paper.

Anyway if you're reading this just remember the despicable Ciaran Cuffe's dismissive attitude reported in the article and NEVER, NEVER VOTE GREEN AGAIN! I know Hell will freeze over before I do even if it means not voting at all. :mad::mad::mad:

Our man in Havana

They won't be able to suspend services as a suspension will mean that all staff deployed to the line will still be in situ until such time as they properly close the line. Large costs there.

Judgement Day

Just sent Ciaran Cuffe and Wexford Green Cllr. Danny Forde 'friendly' emails regarding the closure but I don't expect replies. I'm sure that they would like to hear from you all too.

forde@utvinternet.ie

ciaran.cuffe@oireachtas.ie

Judgement Day

Haddockman wrote: »

They won't be able to suspend services as a suspension will mean that all staff deployed to the line will still be in situ until such time as they properly close the line. Large costs there.

Cost doesn't come into it - what about all the redundant signalmen on the South Eastern line who are now paid to do nothing except avoid passengers and management by hiding in the station office behind locked doors? :mad:

Our man in Havana

Judgement Day wrote: »

Cost doesn't come into it - what about all the redundant signalmen on the South Eastern line who are now paid to do nothing except avoid passengers and management by hiding in the station office behind locked doors? :mad:

Christ, is that true?

Judgement Day

Haddockman wrote: »

Christ, is that true?

My own local station had three signalmen who worked the cabin on shift basis and they also sold tickets, handled parcels traffic and kept the place clean. Now there is no signal cabin, an automatic ticket machine, no parcels and three ex.signalmen with the same hours as previously and no work to do.

Southsider1

Doesn't surprise me at all Judgement Day. Fairly typical of CIE.

Just a query:

What happens if, supposing, there's another rock fall on the line north of Greystones and they have no train south of that point at the time? LAst year they were able to bring two down via Waterford and Rosslare to use for shuttle between Rosslare and Arklow. If the line is no longer in use then we'll be left high and dry?

Our man in Havana

Pretty much. If the Barrow bridge loses its' certification to carry traffic they will be stumped.

Judgement Day

Southsider1 wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me at all Judgement Day. Fairly typical of CIE.

Just a query:

What happens if, supposing, there's another rock fall on the line north of Greystones and they have no train south of that point at the time? LAst year they were able to bring two down via Waterford and Rosslare to use for shuttle between Rosslare and Arklow. If the line is no longer in use then we'll be left high and dry?

Well, in the immediate future the line will still be useable for empty stock working/engineering trains etc. but when CIE/IE's usual programme of mothballing kicks in, you can expect to see the swing span of the Barrow Bridge removed, track lifted - ostensibly for reuse elsewhere etc.etc..

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

- ostensibly for reuse elsewhere etc.etc..

back gardens

L1011

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

back gardens

Isn't a lot of this line CWR on concrete anyway? Concrete sleepers don't make as pretty flower beds!

Judgement Day

MYOB wrote: »

Isn't a lot of this line CWR on concrete anyway? Concrete sleepers don't make as pretty flower beds!

Useful for coastal defences round Bray Head etc. Only a small amount of the South Wexford is CWR.

Cookie_Monster

MYOB wrote: »

Isn't a lot of this line CWR on concrete anyway? Concrete sleepers don't make as pretty flower beds!

only 6 miles of it is new CWR, layed by an engineer I vaguely know