Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

Judgement Day

No light at end of tunnel for rail link to Waterford

IRISH RAIL SIGNALS END OF THE LINE COULD BE IN SIGHT

The railway line at Rosslare Harbour. Insets (from left) Deputy Sean Connick, Deputy Brendan Howlin and Councillor Joe Ryan.

By Maria PEPPER and Conor CULLEN







Wexford People Wednesday March 10 2010


IT WON'T be long before the whistle blows for the last time on the Rosslare to Waterford train.
Iarnród Éireann has confirmed that it is considering ending services on the line, to save money.
In a letter to Labour T.D., Brendan Howlin, the District Manager in Waterford Emmet Cotter said the line has experienced 'very low patronage' for years.
Approximately 25 passengers travel on it every day, with revenue making up only 2% of operating costs. The closure would generate 'substantial cost savings', he said.
The sugar beet industry previously helped the line to remain viable but that came to an end in 2006.
Mr. Cotter blamed a reduction in the Government's subvention to Iarnrod Eireann for the company having to consider closing the Rosslare-Waterford line which also serves the villages of Rosslare Strand, Bridgetown, Wellingtonbridge, Ballycullane and Campile.
He said the company is currently surveying customers on the route to establish their origin and destination; is discussing the possibility of re-deployment or voluntary severance with staff, and examining possible alternative services which could be provided to customers.
'A decision on the continuation of existing services on the route is expected to be made within weeks, following these actions,' he said.
He revealed that Iarnrod Eireann would explore the possibility of establishing a 'heritage railway' on the route, to benefit tourism.
Fianna Fail Deputy Seán Connick, having been in contact with both Irish Rail and the Transport Minister Noel Dempsey, has said the service 'could be in danger of closing in the near future'.
Deputy Connick said that the future of the line was first put into doubt with the publication of the An Bord Snip Nua report of last year, which advocated the closure of a number of lightly used rail services, including the Rosslare-Waterford line.
'The Rosslare-Waterford railway line has the potential to be an important link between south Wexford and Waterford City,' said the Fianna Fáil TD.
'Unfortunately this line has never been developed properly and has never reached its potential to be a viable alternative source of transport for people working or studying in Waterford. The current service has only one train a day in either direction.
'The train from Waterford to Rosslare leaves the station in Waterford at 5:20 p.m. This would not give anyone studying in WIT or working in the city centre sufficient time to get the train to travel home,' said the New Ross-based TD.
'This means that Irish Rail's own timetable is the biggest impediment to the development of the Rosslare-Waterford railway line.'
Deputy Connick said he has been in correspondence with both the Transport Minister Noel Dempsey and officials from Irish Rail about the rail service, but it seems his pleas have fallen on deaf ears.
Meanwhile, Wexford Borough Councillor Joe Ryan (Lab), who has been fighting to save the railway line, said he was 'very disenchanted' with Iarnrod Eireann management. 'The line has potential but Iarnrod Eireann isn't interested,' he said.
Cllr. Ryan said the cost of taxi fares in 2009, to return staff to Waterford was over €30,000.
'Iarnrod Eireann had the chance of running the train back to Waterford to avoid the transport cost. They also had the option of using a Wexford-based crew.
Deputy Howlin was due to raise the issue during an Adjournment Debate in Dail Eireann last night (Tuesday).


With these three clowns (Howlin, Connick and Ryan) plus Noel Dempsey, Dick Fearn, John Lynch and McCarthy's Snip Nua report is it any wonder the railway is bollixed???:mad:

Rud

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Would they not consider handing this line over to heritage use before they rip up any track.

i agree entirely

dowlingm

I think IE should be made to explain in detail why the Rosslare departure can't be delayed to 5.30 or 5.45 given that the station is across the river from virtually everything in the city, and crewed from Wexford. However the reality is that with the slow limit on the Barrow bridge, the winding alignment and the thin intermediate catchment it's not going to be a slamdunk mode, and there's no industry in south Wexford to send containers into Belview, is there? My main concern with closing the South Wexford line has always been the various ways in which nature can close the Wicklow line without much effort, especially if Bray Head dumps another load of rock or erosion accelerates.

Run_to_da_hills

Rud wrote: »

i agree entirely

Moyasta is home for the West Clare narrow gauge railway and static displays of non running locos. It is no place for heritage excursions on standard gauge trains particularly because none ever existed in this part of the country.

At Downpatrick last weekend the A39 couldn't even stretch itself beyond 25mph on its two miles of track.

If IR leased this stretch of track to the ITG / RPSI it would keep them off their backs for seasonal runs. It also has the advantage of being directly off the main line at both ends as opposed to Moyasta, it has port access to the UK and is only two hours drive from Dublin or Cork.

Cookie_Monster

just stick an old railbus on it
Keep the locals happy and reduce costs.

Judgement Day

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Moyasta is home for the West Clare narrow gauge railway and static displays of non running locos. It is no place for heritage excursions on standard gauge trains particularly because none ever existed in this part of the country.

At Downpatrick last weekend the A39 couldn't even stretch itself beyond 25mph on its two miles of track.

If IR leased this stretch of track to the ITG / RPSI it would keep them off their backs for seasonal runs. It also has the advantage of being directly off the main line at both ends as opposed to Moyasta, it has port access to the UK and is only two hours drive from Dublin or Cork.

As far as I know ITG/RPSI would have no interest in the line. How on earth would any preservation organisation, anywhere in the World, pay for the upkeep and insurance of structures like the Barrow bridge, Taylorstown viaduct etc?

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

just stick an old railbus on it
Keep the locals happy and reduce costs.

This would be more than adequate to carry the 5 people that are currently useing the line.

Judgement Day wrote: »

As far as I know ITG/RPSI would have no interest in the line. How on earth would any preservation organization, anywhere in the World, pay for the upkeep and insurance of structures like the Barrow bridge, Taylorstown viaduct etc?

I am sure if the right combined group of enthusiasts got their hands on this stretch of track they would make it pay for its self a lot more than what it is doing at the moment, UK interests included.

By consulting some local boy scouts to check the Barrow bridge and Taylorstown viaduct it should reduce insurance premiums quite significantly.

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

I think IE should be made to explain in detail why the Rosslare departure can't be delayed to 5.30 or 5.45 given that the station is across the river from virtually everything in the city, and crewed from Wexford. However the reality is that with the slow limit on the Barrow bridge, the winding alignment and the thin intermediate catchment it's not going to be a slamdunk mode, and there's no industry in south Wexford to send containers into Belview, is there? My main concern with closing the South Wexford line has always been the various ways in which nature can close the Wicklow line without much effort, especially if Bray Head dumps another load of rock or erosion accelerates.

I think there's a damn sight more explanations than this needed:

1) Why as mentioned above does the evening Waterford/Rosslare commuter train have to leave Waterford at 17.20 - it does not connect with anything in Rosslare.
2) Why does the 17.55 Rosslare/Dublin service have to leave Rosslare Harbour at 17.55 thereby NOT connecting with the 17.20 ex.Waterford?
3) Why does the 19.30 ex Wexford not start from Rosslare Harbour which would at least give a connection out of the 17.20 ex. Waterford?
4) Why is it possible to travel from Enniscorthy/Wexford to Waterford but not possible to return EVER????

There is so much more that could be asked, but won't be, as our media and politicans are too damn ignorant or lazy to ask serious researched questions. Much easier for RTE to have a "Are you right there Michael" piece on the line as recently shown on Nationwide than a serious investigative piece questioning the whole running of the railway and, indeed, the raison d'etre of CIE - apart from being the last place of refuge for people unemployable in the private sector. :mad:

KC61

I would have to say that the scheduling on this line has to my mind always been a disaster, and has principally been developed to save costs.

People rightly ask why does the evening train leave Waterford at 1720 and not later? Personally, I think that the train should be leaving at or around 1800, which gives people who work in Waterford city time to get across the river to the station.

However the reason for this is very simple. The train is crewed by a Waterford based crew, as the Rosslare crew works the morning service (returning by bus to Rosslare). In order to cut costs the Waterford crew now get the bus back from Rosslare Harbour. The last bus leaves at 1900. The train operates at the time it does to allow the crew time to shunt the train after it arrives and make to the bus. Otherwise they would have to use taxis. That's why the connection to/from Enniscorthy was withdrawn in the current timetable.

This sort of nonsense is symptomatic of the local attitude in the Waterford region where there has simply been a complete lack of initiative and effort into marketing services, other than the Dublin/Waterford line. No effort in marketing the Waterford/Limerick Junction line, no thought that perhaps when it came to 3 massive GAA matches involving Waterford in Thurles last summer that it might be worth operating trains from Waterford to Thurles giving the railway a publicity boost, the complete lack of any Sunday service on the regional routes, the lack of ambition and drive in developing local markets. I could go on and on about this, but it is frankly abysmal.

While I would accept that the costs far outweigh the revenue on this route now with the demise of the beet traffic, and I would honestly say I doubt they ever would come close with the low population density in South Wexford, the total lack of any sort of positive marketing and timetabling shows a complete lack of any interest and initiative.

dowlingm

Just had a look at the timetable. The 1510 ex Dublin arrives Waterford 1733 so for starters the south Wexford should leave no earlier than 1735 to ensure connections? It does introduce a long wait from the incoming Limerick Junction at 1705. If South Wexford delayed 15 minutes to 1735 arriving 1850 at Rosslare:
1. BE requested to delay 15 minutes to 1915
2. 1735 ex Waterford extended to Wexford using a Wexford crew arriving ~1920 allowing passengers to transfer to the 1930 to Dublin (any problems with signals/platforms?)

Option 1 would probably be easiest to implement, option 2 would turn the train into a bidirectional service for south Wexforders which reinstates a bidirectional link to Enniscorthy, albeit one with an awkward reverse element in Rosslare.

The biggest mistake made was when IE moved the station in Rosslare Harbour. They are in a tricky position because they own the Port (and they shouldn't - it's not core to their activities - I think it was inherited from the consolidation of the private railways into state ownership). What should have happened was:

1. Port removed from IE to a separate CIE company or elsewhere.
2. Trackage between Rosslare Strand and Rosslare Harbour lifted and the alignment paved, the existing station sold.
3. New bus/rail station built on the edge of Rosslare town on a direct curve from Dublin line to South Wexford line. Passengers for the Port to be shuttled to harbour along the former rail line on low-floor buses provided by Port and paid for by ferry companies.
4. Mini-CTC project extended along South Wexford line to Waterford to form a continuous service timetable between Waterford, Wexford, Wicklow and Dublin.

That didn't happen - instead you still have antiquated signalling, a Port in IE hands with an economy heading south, a bunch of manual level crossings, no chance of getting a decent price for a town centre property in Rosslare...

steamengine

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I am sure if the right combined group of enthusiasts got their hands on this stretch of track they would make it pay for its self a lot more than what it is doing at the moment, UK interests included.

+1....... Certainly that line and its location on the tourist trail would seem to present a possibility from a heritage point of view.

There are over 90 preserved steam railways in the UK, standard and narrow gauge. The average lenght is very approximately 5 miles and that I think is adequate, considering these railways are largely run by volunteers.

From a tourist perspective , I think that the 'powers to be' in these areas should start to realise the potential of a heritage railway, and the financial boost it could give to an area.

Judgement Day

steamengine wrote: »

+1....... Certainly that line and its location on the tourist trail would seem to present a possibility from a heritage point of view.

There are over 90 preserved steam railways in the UK, standard and narrow gauge. The average lenght is very approximately 5 miles and that I think is adequate, considering these railways are largely run by volunteers.

From a tourist perspective , I think that the 'powers to be' in these areas should start to realise the potential of a heritage railway, and the financial boost it could give to an area.

Certainly the Waterford/Rosslare line has no future in CIE hands beyond that I cannot see. Local authorities running the scheduled services and occasional enthusiast specials with CIE contracted to maintain the track/structures etc?

Shayman

If they ran the trains at useful times people might use them. ie one in time for work in the morning, one midday for casual/shoppers and one evening to return from work. Simple no?

They gave the same crap out re the Limk Junction - Waterford line. Noone using it. They never once advertised that you could do a day in Waterford by train for €12. Never once plugged that familys could head for a day in Tramore by train in the summer. Run services at appropriate times and ADVERTISE them!

wild handlin

In my opinion lads, it seems to me that Irish Rail couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery - never mind run a railway....

PROVE ME WRONG!!:D

Seriously, why is it almost impossible to run a service CONNECTING with the Waterford and Rosslare trains heading towards/from Dublin. What about running a "shuttle service" to the ferry in Rosslare from Waterford, connecting with the Dublin - Waterford and Limerick - Waterford trains and NOT LEAVE 5 MINS BEFORE THE TRAIN ARRIVES.

Also, what about using the "P" word on the line.... PROMOTION!!

Judgement Day

Shayman wrote: »

If they ran the trains at useful times people might use them. ie one in time for work in the morning, one midday for casual/shoppers and one evening to return from work. Simple no?

They gave the same crap out re the Limk Junction - Waterford line. Noone using it. They never once advertised that you could do a day in Waterford by train for €12. Never once plugged that familys could head for a day in Tramore by train in the summer. Run services at appropriate times and ADVERTISE them!

Don't go looking for a job on the railway will you! With your attitude they would have you confined to an office in the bowels of Heuston where you could do no harm - ohh oops I forgot they already have someone for that job.
See here: http://www.williamfry.ie/article.asp?categoryID=7&articleID=2141 :pac::pac::pac:

Shayman

OK, a couple of points. Why don't they run their train from
Wex town (instead of Rosslare) to Waterford at 7am arrive Waterford 08:10
Return Dep Waterford 08:15 Arrive Wex 09:25

Again Wex 12:30 > Waterford 13:40 Arr
Waterford 13:50 > Wexford 15:00Arr

Wex 16:20 > Waterford 17:30
Waterford 17: 45 > Wex 18:50

Requires just one railcar initially. One driver One Inspector.....

Rocket Science?

KC61

Shayman wrote: »

OK, a couple of points. Why don't they run their train from
Wex town (instead of Rosslare) to Waterford at 7am arrive Waterford 08:10
Return Dep Waterford 08:15 Arrive Wex 09:25

Again Wex 12:30 > Waterford 13:40 Arr
Waterford 13:50 > Wexford 15:00Arr

Wex 16:20 > Waterford 17:30
Waterford 17: 45 > Wex 18:50

Requires just one railcar initially. One driver One Inspector.....

Rocket Science?

That would unfortunately still require two crews as now - one for the morning, one in the afternoon. They'd go over the maximum hours as it is a safety critical job. Remember too, that crews sign on about 1 hour before the train leaves to do pre-departure checks, start and shunt the train etc.

I am pretty sure that Wexford station is unstaffed at night which might cause concern for the safety of the rolling stock being stabled there at night.

Right idea though.

Shayman

KC61 wrote: »

That would unfortunately still require two crews as now - one for the morning, one in the afternoon. They'd go over the maximum hours as it is a safety critical job. Remember too, that crews sign on about 1 hour before the train leaves to do pre-departure checks, start and shunt the train etc.

I am pretty sure that Wexford station is unstaffed at night which might cause concern for the safety of the rolling stock being stabled there at night.

Right idea though.

Fair points.... All easily overcome with a little thought.

foggy_lad

Cllr. Ryan said the cost of taxi fares in 2009, to return staff to Waterford was over €30,000.
'Iarnrod Eireann had the chance of running the train back to Waterford to avoid the transport cost. They also had the option of using a Wexford-based crew

can they not get a bus from rosslare to waterford? afaik they actually do get the bus to waterford/wexford from rosslare as when i was in rosslare before i saw trhe train crew getting the number 2 bus to wexford!

where are the taxi fares going???

it is not just the company that are to blame as staff are ripping off irish rail for thousands whether it be unessessary taxi fares or selling off old sleepers etc

Southsider1

foggy_lad wrote: »

can they not get a bus from rosslare to waterford? afaik they actually do get the bus to waterford/wexford from rosslare as when i was in rosslare before i saw trhe train crew getting the number 2 bus to wexford!

where are the taxi fares going???

it is not just the company that are to blame as staff are ripping off irish rail for thousands whether it be unessessary taxi fares or selling off old sleepers etc

Ok, maybeI'm missing something here but why are IE paying for taxis to take the staff to work. Do they not find their own way to work like everyone else?

dowlingm

KC61 wrote: »

I am pretty sure that Wexford station is unstaffed at night which might cause concern for the safety of the rolling stock being stabled there at night.

That's where local authorities should come in. If Wexford Town Council funded a new station in Wexford with bus and parking facilities (the existing station has none) and provided 24hr security maybe the stabling of railcars would then be feasible. IE would retain the trackage obviously and could do a deal with the council in respect of disposing of the prior station as part of the funding of the capital works.

dowlingm

@southsider - it's not reasonable to expect employees to get home *from a different place than they started work* on their own dime.

@foggy lad - they can get a bus home, in fact at the moment they do. However, BE's timetable is now dictating IE's.

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

Ok, maybeI'm missing something here but why are IE paying for taxis to take the staff to work. Do they not find their own way to work like everyone else?

OK to explain this. The train stays in Rosslare overnight. A Rosslare crew take it to Waterford each morning. They then get the bus back to Rosslare.

A Waterford crew operates the train to Rosslare each evening. They get the bus back to Waterford. Until last December the company had to get them a taxi back to Waterford each evening as the train arrived back to Rosslare after the last bus had gone, because they continued from Rosslare to Enniscorthy and back. There would be no other way of getting them home.

That's where the taxis come into it.

The time span between the two trains is too long for a single crew to operate it.

Solution?

Probably base an additional crew in Rosslare and operate more services during the day so that both crews start and finish in Rosslare and don't have to use buses.

dowlingm

KC61 - presumably the morning Rosslare crew operates a different service ex Hbr once they get back on the bus? Pretty short working day if they didn't!

lord lucan

While it pains me to say it,i think the best thing to do now is close the line. IE obviously have no interest in promoting and running a reasonable service on it. They've done their best to make it as un-viable as possible,it's best put to rest now.:(

Run_to_da_hills

lord lucan wrote: »

While it pains me to say it,i think the best thing to do now is close the line. IE obviously have no interest in promoting and running a reasonable service on it. They've done their best to make it as un-viable as possible,it's best put to rest now.:(

They will probably try to do the same "trick" with the WRC, the Middleton and other rejuvenated lines in a few years time. :mad:

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

KC61 - presumably the morning Rosslare crew operates a different service ex Hbr once they get back on the bus? Pretty short working day if they didn't!

Not since the new timetable - they're "on call" at Rosslare I believe.

They used to operate one of the services on the Waterford/Limerick Junction route part of the way and back. However, now that's been withdrawn in an effort to cut costs.

parsi

Judgement Day wrote: »

4) Why is it possible to travel from Enniscorthy/Wexford to Waterford but not possible to return EVER????

You mean that all those Enniscorthians who travelled to Waterford by train never came home ? Ever ? That must be a fierce population drain..:D

KC61

When it was possible to do the trip in both directions the numbers were very very negligible by all accounts. There were no regulars!

Shayman

dowlingm wrote: »

@southsider - it's not reasonable to expect employees to get home *from a different place than they started work* on their own dime.

@foggy lad - they can get a bus home, in fact at the moment they do. However, BE's timetable is now dictating IE's.

So you're telling me they do one trip park the train and get a taxi home? So who does the return trip? The journey time is only 70 mins?

Also re your previous post, they do park busses in Wexford rail station overnight so there shouldn't be a problem parking a train too?

Shayman

KC61 wrote: »

When it was possible to do the trip in both directions the numbers were very very negligible by all accounts. There were no regulars!

Well it would be wouldn't it? Rosslare > Waterford. Now if someone put on the thinking cap and ran it from Wexford where there's slightly more people......

Judgement Day

parsi wrote: »

You mean that all those Enniscorthians who travelled to Waterford by train never came home ? Ever ? That must be a fierce population drain..:D

Well I suspect that I was the only user of the service as IE never told anybody about it, cancelled it for weeks at a time and I have declined to use the one way service since it was introduced. I even offered to come back the same day via Heuston if they would sell me a day return to Waterford at €18.50 or something like that.

KC61

Shayman wrote: »

Well it would be wouldn't it? Rosslare > Waterford. Now if someone put on the thinking cap and ran it from Wexford where there's slightly more people......

Eh it did run from Wexford with a connection at Rosslare Strand in the mornings for two years and in ran direct in the evenings in the opposite direction (albeit with a trip down to Rosslare Harbour and back in the evenings).

KC61

Shayman wrote: »

So you're telling me they do one trip park the train and get a taxi home? So who does the return trip? The journey time is only 70 mins?

Also re your previous post, they do park busses in Wexford rail station overnight so there shouldn't be a problem parking a train too?

No they used to go the trip from Waterford to Rosslare, then go to Enniscorthy, then come back to Rosslare and then they got a taxi back to Waterford.

See above for what happens now.

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

No they used to go the trip from Waterford to Rosslare, then go to Enniscorthy, then come back to Rosslare and then they got a taxi back to Waterford.

See above for what happens now.

So basically all they need do is set up the timetable properly and we're sorted?

Judgement Day

KC61 wrote: »

When it was possible to do the trip in both directions the numbers were very very negligible by all accounts. There were no regulars!

I was a regular, on an irregular basis, as the train was frequently cancelled for weeks at a time. Nobody was told of its existence and who but a half mad enthusiast would get up to catch a train from Enniscorthy to Waterford at 06.25? Just under two hours for the train - the bus does the journey in 1 hour. That said, if you were working or going to college in Waterford there is no bus between Enniscorthy and Waterford before 11.24 am.

The fact is that a proper service from Connolly to Waterford would be an attractive operation even with the crap line speeds that currently available. I think that I worked it out that anyone living south of Bray would be quicker going to Waterford via Rosslare Strand than via Connolly and transfering to Heuston. Even one train a day!

Of course any railway company with half a brain would see the tourist potential of running a 'Radio Train' type operation Heuston/Waterford/Rosslare/Connolly - along two of the most scenic routes in the country. I myself was looking at the possibility of operating such tours initially chartering carriages on scheduled services but when they started dicking about with the timetable and introduced the ****e Commuter railcars I threw my hat at it. I have hired and operated specials on CIE/IE before so I'm not just ranting here!! I even had a guidebook set to go to print. Is it any wonder I'm ffing mad with the useless bxxxxtdds. They couldn't run a piss up in......Then you get that unelected, useless bint in the ARAS telling us to get off our arses and come up with ideas to save the country.FFS!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

KC61

Judgement Day wrote: »

I was a regular, on an irregular basis, as the train was frequently cancelled for weeks at a time. Nobody was told of its existence and who but a half mad enthusiast would get up to catch a train from Enniscorthy to Waterford at 06.25? Just under two hours for the train - the bus does the journey in 1 hour. That said, if you were working or going to college in Waterford there is no bus between Enniscorthy and Waterford before 11.24 am.

The fact is that a proper service from Connolly to Waterford would be an attractive operation even with the crap line speeds that currently available. I think that I worked it out that anyone living south of Bray would be quicker going to Waterford via Rosslare Strand than via Connolly and transfering to Heuston. Even one train a day!

Of course any railway company with half a brain would see the tourist potential of running a 'Radio Train' type operation Heuston/Waterford/Rosslare/Connolly - along two of the most scenic routes in the country. I myself was looking at the possibility of operating such tours initially chartering carriages on scheduled services but when they started dicking about with the timetable and introduced the ****e Commuter railcars I threw my hat at it. I have hired and operated specials on CIE/IE before so I'm not just ranting here!! I even had a guidebook set to go to print. Is it any wonder I'm ffing mad with the useless bxxxxtdds. They couldn't run a piss up in......Then you get that unelected, useless bint in the ARAS telling us to get off our arses and come up with ideas to save the country.FFS!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

I was more thinking of people travelling from Wexford to Waterford and v.v. to be honest in my post above.

No I wouldn't expect too many people to do that trip from Enniscorthy.

My own ideas for how the line could have been operated would have been as follows:

1) Train operates existing services from Rosslare (connection from Wexford) at 0700 to Waterford.
2) An additional service leaves Waterford at 0830ish and operates to Connolly via Rosslare Strand.
3) The 1630 Connolly-Wexford extends to operate to Waterford via Rosslare Strand.
4) The existing set operates a Waterford/Wellingtonbridge return before returning to Rosslare (connecting with Dublin bound train at Rosslare Strand).
5) After crew change new crew operate to Waterford (connection from Dublin at Rosslare Strand), then short trip to Wellingtonbridge and back before returning to Wexford at 1800 before returning to Rosslare.

Points 2 and 3 are scuppered by a lack of 22K units but all the others are possible.

The lack of local marketing was atrocious.

It was publicised clearly in the public timetable by the redesign of the route timetable, but they needed advertising.

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

So basically all they need do is set up the timetable properly and we're sorted?

Not quite as easy as that.

Basically they would need new train crews in Rosslare to operate a sensible service and I figure that involved some costs!!

There are also eleven manned level crossings on the route, the gatekeepers are a further restriction on the hours the line can be open.

The line is a hugely costly one to maintain even before you begin to argue over the somewhat pathetic timetable that has been operated on the route. There's the Barrow Bridge, the eleven gatekeepers, the signalmen - for a line with one train each way it is extraordinary that it has lasted this long. Reason = Sugar Beet.

Judgement Day

Of course, if there had been any serious attempt at drawing up a proper Transport 21 plan instead of the back of an envelope job that it is, the reinstatement of the direct line linking the Wexford/Rosslare Strand line from Felthouse Junction to Killinick Junction on the Rosslare Strand/Waterford line would have been on it. This link which only operated from 1906-1911 was just over 2 miles in length and the trackbed runs through an unpopulated area and reinstatement would have been a straightforward matter. Of course a company such as CIE which has been committed to removing all rail links not running directly off the Dublin hub would have no interest in this idea. The useless politicians in the South East along with the useless politicians in the rest of the country bear ultimate responsibility for the CIE dinosaur.

JHMEG

If there were 6 trains a day each way I somehow doubt the passenger numbers would still be more than double.

Aside from pensioners and the odd student that doesn't have a car who wouldn't drive? Waterford station is badly located relative to the city, so it's not attractive for day trips. And not even in the running for anyone who would like to travel on to Tramore or anywhere else by bus (West Waterford etc) for that matter since the bus station was moved down the quays.

Even the college and all major industry are on the other side of the city.

There probably would be noticeable increases on Fri and Sun tho.

Running Connolly/Rosslare/Waterford is creative accounting, but it's a nice idea.

Judgement Day

JHMEG wrote: »

If there were 6 trains a day each way I somehow doubt the passenger numbers would still be more than double.

Aside from pensioners and the odd student that doesn't have a car who wouldn't drive? Waterford station is badly located relative to the city, so it's not attractive for day trips. And not even in the running for anyone who would like to travel on to Tramore or anywhere else by bus (West Waterford etc) for that matter since the bus station was moved down the quays.

Even the college and all major industry are on the other side of the city.

There probably would be noticeable increases on Fri and Sun tho.

Running Connolly/Rosslare/Waterford is creative accounting, but it's a nice idea.

Of course there is a limited local market for this route - school/college students/workers and shoppers - cater for them, add in the extra potential traffic from a Connolly/Waterford service, proper onward connections from Rosslare to Limerick etc, a possible CIE operated circular tourist service and the line has a fighting chance. But, why would CIE management do this as most of them are marking time until their pensions, the operating staff for the lump and the disgraceful board members their next nice little earner on some other semi-state board. Meanwhile operations are cancelled, people lie on trollies for hours in A+E, special needs assistants are withdrawn and all due to rubbish organisations like CIE. That is the bottom line - they are unaccountable to anybody.

Incidentally, there is no earthly reason why a shuttle bus could not operate from the station to the City centre in Waterford. God help us there is no reason why IE don't start running their own bus services too - you know train to Waterford - bus link to Tramore etc. Must send that idea to Mary and Martin at the Aras.

Hungerford

KC61 wrote: »

The line is a hugely costly one to maintain even before you begin to argue over the somewhat pathetic timetable that has been operated on the route.

Ahem... I think that CIE are responsible for the cost aspect by not upgrading the signalling, the crossings or the track and then expecting one service a day to cover all its running costs.

Even if they were running full 29K railcars on the route, it would be unviable under the current regime.

Obviously Dick Fearn has been studying his Closure by Stealth manual from his BR days.

KC61

Hungerford wrote: »

Ahem... I think that CIE are responsible for the cost aspect by not upgrading the signalling, the crossings or the track and then expecting one service a day to cover all its running costs.

Even if they were running full 29K railcars on the route, it would be unviable under the current regime.

Obviously Dick Fearn has been studying his Closure by Stealth manual from his BR days.

Could you justify the investment needed to do that for just one train each way?

Shayman

KC61 wrote: »

Could you justify the investment needed to do that for just one train each way?

That's not the point. If they did sort it out properly and added trains at sensible times and price and even a little bit of promotion then it would be at least in with a good chance. Remember they're soon opening a line from Ennis to Galway so in theory a train could run from Wexford/Rosslare to Galway direct....

Judgement Day

KC61 wrote: »

Could you justify the investment needed to do that for just one train each way?

Is that you Barry?

KC61

Shayman wrote: »

That's not the point. If they did sort it out properly and added trains at sensible times and price and even a little bit of promotion then it would be at least in with a good chance. Remember they're soon opening a line from Ennis to Galway so in theory a train could run from Wexford/Rosslare to Galway direct....

With the best will in the world, and I am highly critical of IE management with regard to this service they have offered, but you will never have large numbers using this line by any standards. The population density is just too low, and the line goes too far south to Rosslare Strand to make the Wexford/Waterford journey time be competitive with the roads.

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

With the best will in the world, and I am highly critical of IE management with regard to this service they have offered, but you will never have large numbers using this line by any standards. The population density is just too low, and the line goes too far south to Rosslare Strand to make the Wexford/Waterford journey time be competitive with the roads.

But not all services are going to be profitable but that's why a Govt company runs it and not a private entity. That's also why they have the railcar trains so they can use one or two carriages. And, as I said before if it was scheduled at realistic times and promoted at least it would be in with a chance. ?

Cookie_Monster

better times and smaller, lighter, less expensive to run stock would solve this problem.

Why do IE think that they have to run a 2/3 car train on the line? They do have sinlge car DMUs and could probably pick up cheap railbuses like BR 142's to make it viable

FlameoftheWest

Notice how the instant reaction to CIE closing it is a heritage railway...


Here's a thought CIE/Irish Rail managers. A bit radical, perhaps even bordering on psychotic to you lot. But it would seem to me that implementing a service which might be useful to people would boost the passenger numbers.

*sound of a rusty door hinge creaking back and forth...*

JHMEG

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

better times and smaller, lighter, less expensive to run stock would solve this problem.

Why do IE think that they have to run a 2/3 car train on the line? They do have sinlge car DMUs and could probably pick up cheap railbuses like BR 142's to make it viable

What's the point in running a bus on a road that has 11 manned level crossings and an expensive bridge that needs to be maintained, when you can run the bus on a road that someone else maintains and you paid a tiny fee a year to use.

I'm all for rail transport, and I'd like to see IE trial a 6 train a day each way service that connects well with other services for a year. If the patronage levels don't increase to any meaningful level then let a bus operator run the route instead.

munchkin_utd

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

better times and smaller, lighter, less expensive to run stock would solve this problem.

Why do IE think that they have to run a 2/3 car train on the line? They do have sinlge car DMUs and could probably pick up cheap railbuses like BR 142's to make it viable

What I mentioned before, that could be looked at in Ireland, was the train/tram idea to allow running across the bridge right into to Waterford city (also would be an idea in Cork, so long as they dont build on the yard behind Kent station).
Karlsruhe pioneered it and theres a version which is more train than tram developed by siemens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RegioSprinter