Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

Judgement Day

No light at end of tunnel for rail link to Waterford

IRISH RAIL SIGNALS END OF THE LINE COULD BE IN SIGHT

The railway line at Rosslare Harbour. Insets (from left) Deputy Sean Connick, Deputy Brendan Howlin and Councillor Joe Ryan.

By Maria PEPPER and Conor CULLEN







Wexford People Wednesday March 10 2010


IT WON'T be long before the whistle blows for the last time on the Rosslare to Waterford train.
Iarnród Éireann has confirmed that it is considering ending services on the line, to save money.
In a letter to Labour T.D., Brendan Howlin, the District Manager in Waterford Emmet Cotter said the line has experienced 'very low patronage' for years.
Approximately 25 passengers travel on it every day, with revenue making up only 2% of operating costs. The closure would generate 'substantial cost savings', he said.
The sugar beet industry previously helped the line to remain viable but that came to an end in 2006.
Mr. Cotter blamed a reduction in the Government's subvention to Iarnrod Eireann for the company having to consider closing the Rosslare-Waterford line which also serves the villages of Rosslare Strand, Bridgetown, Wellingtonbridge, Ballycullane and Campile.
He said the company is currently surveying customers on the route to establish their origin and destination; is discussing the possibility of re-deployment or voluntary severance with staff, and examining possible alternative services which could be provided to customers.
'A decision on the continuation of existing services on the route is expected to be made within weeks, following these actions,' he said.
He revealed that Iarnrod Eireann would explore the possibility of establishing a 'heritage railway' on the route, to benefit tourism.
Fianna Fail Deputy Seán Connick, having been in contact with both Irish Rail and the Transport Minister Noel Dempsey, has said the service 'could be in danger of closing in the near future'.
Deputy Connick said that the future of the line was first put into doubt with the publication of the An Bord Snip Nua report of last year, which advocated the closure of a number of lightly used rail services, including the Rosslare-Waterford line.
'The Rosslare-Waterford railway line has the potential to be an important link between south Wexford and Waterford City,' said the Fianna Fáil TD.
'Unfortunately this line has never been developed properly and has never reached its potential to be a viable alternative source of transport for people working or studying in Waterford. The current service has only one train a day in either direction.
'The train from Waterford to Rosslare leaves the station in Waterford at 5:20 p.m. This would not give anyone studying in WIT or working in the city centre sufficient time to get the train to travel home,' said the New Ross-based TD.
'This means that Irish Rail's own timetable is the biggest impediment to the development of the Rosslare-Waterford railway line.'
Deputy Connick said he has been in correspondence with both the Transport Minister Noel Dempsey and officials from Irish Rail about the rail service, but it seems his pleas have fallen on deaf ears.
Meanwhile, Wexford Borough Councillor Joe Ryan (Lab), who has been fighting to save the railway line, said he was 'very disenchanted' with Iarnrod Eireann management. 'The line has potential but Iarnrod Eireann isn't interested,' he said.
Cllr. Ryan said the cost of taxi fares in 2009, to return staff to Waterford was over €30,000.
'Iarnrod Eireann had the chance of running the train back to Waterford to avoid the transport cost. They also had the option of using a Wexford-based crew.
Deputy Howlin was due to raise the issue during an Adjournment Debate in Dail Eireann last night (Tuesday).


With these three clowns (Howlin, Connick and Ryan) plus Noel Dempsey, Dick Fearn, John Lynch and McCarthy's Snip Nua report is it any wonder the railway is bollixed???:mad:

Rud

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Would they not consider handing this line over to heritage use before they rip up any track.

i agree entirely

dowlingm

I think IE should be made to explain in detail why the Rosslare departure can't be delayed to 5.30 or 5.45 given that the station is across the river from virtually everything in the city, and crewed from Wexford. However the reality is that with the slow limit on the Barrow bridge, the winding alignment and the thin intermediate catchment it's not going to be a slamdunk mode, and there's no industry in south Wexford to send containers into Belview, is there? My main concern with closing the South Wexford line has always been the various ways in which nature can close the Wicklow line without much effort, especially if Bray Head dumps another load of rock or erosion accelerates.

Run_to_da_hills

Rud wrote: »

i agree entirely

Moyasta is home for the West Clare narrow gauge railway and static displays of non running locos. It is no place for heritage excursions on standard gauge trains particularly because none ever existed in this part of the country.

At Downpatrick last weekend the A39 couldn't even stretch itself beyond 25mph on its two miles of track.

If IR leased this stretch of track to the ITG / RPSI it would keep them off their backs for seasonal runs. It also has the advantage of being directly off the main line at both ends as opposed to Moyasta, it has port access to the UK and is only two hours drive from Dublin or Cork.

Cookie_Monster

just stick an old railbus on it
Keep the locals happy and reduce costs.

Judgement Day

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Moyasta is home for the West Clare narrow gauge railway and static displays of non running locos. It is no place for heritage excursions on standard gauge trains particularly because none ever existed in this part of the country.

At Downpatrick last weekend the A39 couldn't even stretch itself beyond 25mph on its two miles of track.

If IR leased this stretch of track to the ITG / RPSI it would keep them off their backs for seasonal runs. It also has the advantage of being directly off the main line at both ends as opposed to Moyasta, it has port access to the UK and is only two hours drive from Dublin or Cork.

As far as I know ITG/RPSI would have no interest in the line. How on earth would any preservation organisation, anywhere in the World, pay for the upkeep and insurance of structures like the Barrow bridge, Taylorstown viaduct etc?

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

just stick an old railbus on it
Keep the locals happy and reduce costs.

This would be more than adequate to carry the 5 people that are currently useing the line.

Judgement Day wrote: »

As far as I know ITG/RPSI would have no interest in the line. How on earth would any preservation organization, anywhere in the World, pay for the upkeep and insurance of structures like the Barrow bridge, Taylorstown viaduct etc?

I am sure if the right combined group of enthusiasts got their hands on this stretch of track they would make it pay for its self a lot more than what it is doing at the moment, UK interests included.

By consulting some local boy scouts to check the Barrow bridge and Taylorstown viaduct it should reduce insurance premiums quite significantly.

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

I think IE should be made to explain in detail why the Rosslare departure can't be delayed to 5.30 or 5.45 given that the station is across the river from virtually everything in the city, and crewed from Wexford. However the reality is that with the slow limit on the Barrow bridge, the winding alignment and the thin intermediate catchment it's not going to be a slamdunk mode, and there's no industry in south Wexford to send containers into Belview, is there? My main concern with closing the South Wexford line has always been the various ways in which nature can close the Wicklow line without much effort, especially if Bray Head dumps another load of rock or erosion accelerates.

I think there's a damn sight more explanations than this needed:

1) Why as mentioned above does the evening Waterford/Rosslare commuter train have to leave Waterford at 17.20 - it does not connect with anything in Rosslare.
2) Why does the 17.55 Rosslare/Dublin service have to leave Rosslare Harbour at 17.55 thereby NOT connecting with the 17.20 ex.Waterford?
3) Why does the 19.30 ex Wexford not start from Rosslare Harbour which would at least give a connection out of the 17.20 ex. Waterford?
4) Why is it possible to travel from Enniscorthy/Wexford to Waterford but not possible to return EVER????

There is so much more that could be asked, but won't be, as our media and politicans are too damn ignorant or lazy to ask serious researched questions. Much easier for RTE to have a "Are you right there Michael" piece on the line as recently shown on Nationwide than a serious investigative piece questioning the whole running of the railway and, indeed, the raison d'etre of CIE - apart from being the last place of refuge for people unemployable in the private sector. :mad:

KC61

I would have to say that the scheduling on this line has to my mind always been a disaster, and has principally been developed to save costs.

People rightly ask why does the evening train leave Waterford at 1720 and not later? Personally, I think that the train should be leaving at or around 1800, which gives people who work in Waterford city time to get across the river to the station.

However the reason for this is very simple. The train is crewed by a Waterford based crew, as the Rosslare crew works the morning service (returning by bus to Rosslare). In order to cut costs the Waterford crew now get the bus back from Rosslare Harbour. The last bus leaves at 1900. The train operates at the time it does to allow the crew time to shunt the train after it arrives and make to the bus. Otherwise they would have to use taxis. That's why the connection to/from Enniscorthy was withdrawn in the current timetable.

This sort of nonsense is symptomatic of the local attitude in the Waterford region where there has simply been a complete lack of initiative and effort into marketing services, other than the Dublin/Waterford line. No effort in marketing the Waterford/Limerick Junction line, no thought that perhaps when it came to 3 massive GAA matches involving Waterford in Thurles last summer that it might be worth operating trains from Waterford to Thurles giving the railway a publicity boost, the complete lack of any Sunday service on the regional routes, the lack of ambition and drive in developing local markets. I could go on and on about this, but it is frankly abysmal.

While I would accept that the costs far outweigh the revenue on this route now with the demise of the beet traffic, and I would honestly say I doubt they ever would come close with the low population density in South Wexford, the total lack of any sort of positive marketing and timetabling shows a complete lack of any interest and initiative.

dowlingm

Just had a look at the timetable. The 1510 ex Dublin arrives Waterford 1733 so for starters the south Wexford should leave no earlier than 1735 to ensure connections? It does introduce a long wait from the incoming Limerick Junction at 1705. If South Wexford delayed 15 minutes to 1735 arriving 1850 at Rosslare:
1. BE requested to delay 15 minutes to 1915
2. 1735 ex Waterford extended to Wexford using a Wexford crew arriving ~1920 allowing passengers to transfer to the 1930 to Dublin (any problems with signals/platforms?)

Option 1 would probably be easiest to implement, option 2 would turn the train into a bidirectional service for south Wexforders which reinstates a bidirectional link to Enniscorthy, albeit one with an awkward reverse element in Rosslare.

The biggest mistake made was when IE moved the station in Rosslare Harbour. They are in a tricky position because they own the Port (and they shouldn't - it's not core to their activities - I think it was inherited from the consolidation of the private railways into state ownership). What should have happened was:

1. Port removed from IE to a separate CIE company or elsewhere.
2. Trackage between Rosslare Strand and Rosslare Harbour lifted and the alignment paved, the existing station sold.
3. New bus/rail station built on the edge of Rosslare town on a direct curve from Dublin line to South Wexford line. Passengers for the Port to be shuttled to harbour along the former rail line on low-floor buses provided by Port and paid for by ferry companies.
4. Mini-CTC project extended along South Wexford line to Waterford to form a continuous service timetable between Waterford, Wexford, Wicklow and Dublin.

That didn't happen - instead you still have antiquated signalling, a Port in IE hands with an economy heading south, a bunch of manual level crossings, no chance of getting a decent price for a town centre property in Rosslare...

steamengine

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I am sure if the right combined group of enthusiasts got their hands on this stretch of track they would make it pay for its self a lot more than what it is doing at the moment, UK interests included.

+1....... Certainly that line and its location on the tourist trail would seem to present a possibility from a heritage point of view.

There are over 90 preserved steam railways in the UK, standard and narrow gauge. The average lenght is very approximately 5 miles and that I think is adequate, considering these railways are largely run by volunteers.

From a tourist perspective , I think that the 'powers to be' in these areas should start to realise the potential of a heritage railway, and the financial boost it could give to an area.

Judgement Day

steamengine wrote: »

+1....... Certainly that line and its location on the tourist trail would seem to present a possibility from a heritage point of view.

There are over 90 preserved steam railways in the UK, standard and narrow gauge. The average lenght is very approximately 5 miles and that I think is adequate, considering these railways are largely run by volunteers.

From a tourist perspective , I think that the 'powers to be' in these areas should start to realise the potential of a heritage railway, and the financial boost it could give to an area.

Certainly the Waterford/Rosslare line has no future in CIE hands beyond that I cannot see. Local authorities running the scheduled services and occasional enthusiast specials with CIE contracted to maintain the track/structures etc?

Shayman

If they ran the trains at useful times people might use them. ie one in time for work in the morning, one midday for casual/shoppers and one evening to return from work. Simple no?

They gave the same crap out re the Limk Junction - Waterford line. Noone using it. They never once advertised that you could do a day in Waterford by train for €12. Never once plugged that familys could head for a day in Tramore by train in the summer. Run services at appropriate times and ADVERTISE them!

wild handlin

In my opinion lads, it seems to me that Irish Rail couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery - never mind run a railway....

PROVE ME WRONG!!:D

Seriously, why is it almost impossible to run a service CONNECTING with the Waterford and Rosslare trains heading towards/from Dublin. What about running a "shuttle service" to the ferry in Rosslare from Waterford, connecting with the Dublin - Waterford and Limerick - Waterford trains and NOT LEAVE 5 MINS BEFORE THE TRAIN ARRIVES.

Also, what about using the "P" word on the line.... PROMOTION!!

Judgement Day

Shayman wrote: »

If they ran the trains at useful times people might use them. ie one in time for work in the morning, one midday for casual/shoppers and one evening to return from work. Simple no?

They gave the same crap out re the Limk Junction - Waterford line. Noone using it. They never once advertised that you could do a day in Waterford by train for €12. Never once plugged that familys could head for a day in Tramore by train in the summer. Run services at appropriate times and ADVERTISE them!

Don't go looking for a job on the railway will you! With your attitude they would have you confined to an office in the bowels of Heuston where you could do no harm - ohh oops I forgot they already have someone for that job.
See here: http://www.williamfry.ie/article.asp?categoryID=7&articleID=2141 :pac::pac::pac:

Shayman

OK, a couple of points. Why don't they run their train from
Wex town (instead of Rosslare) to Waterford at 7am arrive Waterford 08:10
Return Dep Waterford 08:15 Arrive Wex 09:25

Again Wex 12:30 > Waterford 13:40 Arr
Waterford 13:50 > Wexford 15:00Arr

Wex 16:20 > Waterford 17:30
Waterford 17: 45 > Wex 18:50

Requires just one railcar initially. One driver One Inspector.....

Rocket Science?

KC61

Shayman wrote: »

OK, a couple of points. Why don't they run their train from
Wex town (instead of Rosslare) to Waterford at 7am arrive Waterford 08:10
Return Dep Waterford 08:15 Arrive Wex 09:25

Again Wex 12:30 > Waterford 13:40 Arr
Waterford 13:50 > Wexford 15:00Arr

Wex 16:20 > Waterford 17:30
Waterford 17: 45 > Wex 18:50

Requires just one railcar initially. One driver One Inspector.....

Rocket Science?

That would unfortunately still require two crews as now - one for the morning, one in the afternoon. They'd go over the maximum hours as it is a safety critical job. Remember too, that crews sign on about 1 hour before the train leaves to do pre-departure checks, start and shunt the train etc.

I am pretty sure that Wexford station is unstaffed at night which might cause concern for the safety of the rolling stock being stabled there at night.

Right idea though.

Shayman

KC61 wrote: »

That would unfortunately still require two crews as now - one for the morning, one in the afternoon. They'd go over the maximum hours as it is a safety critical job. Remember too, that crews sign on about 1 hour before the train leaves to do pre-departure checks, start and shunt the train etc.

I am pretty sure that Wexford station is unstaffed at night which might cause concern for the safety of the rolling stock being stabled there at night.

Right idea though.

Fair points.... All easily overcome with a little thought.

foggy_lad

Cllr. Ryan said the cost of taxi fares in 2009, to return staff to Waterford was over €30,000.
'Iarnrod Eireann had the chance of running the train back to Waterford to avoid the transport cost. They also had the option of using a Wexford-based crew

can they not get a bus from rosslare to waterford? afaik they actually do get the bus to waterford/wexford from rosslare as when i was in rosslare before i saw trhe train crew getting the number 2 bus to wexford!

where are the taxi fares going???

it is not just the company that are to blame as staff are ripping off irish rail for thousands whether it be unessessary taxi fares or selling off old sleepers etc

Southsider1

foggy_lad wrote: »

can they not get a bus from rosslare to waterford? afaik they actually do get the bus to waterford/wexford from rosslare as when i was in rosslare before i saw trhe train crew getting the number 2 bus to wexford!

where are the taxi fares going???

it is not just the company that are to blame as staff are ripping off irish rail for thousands whether it be unessessary taxi fares or selling off old sleepers etc

Ok, maybeI'm missing something here but why are IE paying for taxis to take the staff to work. Do they not find their own way to work like everyone else?

dowlingm

KC61 wrote: »

I am pretty sure that Wexford station is unstaffed at night which might cause concern for the safety of the rolling stock being stabled there at night.

That's where local authorities should come in. If Wexford Town Council funded a new station in Wexford with bus and parking facilities (the existing station has none) and provided 24hr security maybe the stabling of railcars would then be feasible. IE would retain the trackage obviously and could do a deal with the council in respect of disposing of the prior station as part of the funding of the capital works.

dowlingm

@southsider - it's not reasonable to expect employees to get home *from a different place than they started work* on their own dime.

@foggy lad - they can get a bus home, in fact at the moment they do. However, BE's timetable is now dictating IE's.

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

Ok, maybeI'm missing something here but why are IE paying for taxis to take the staff to work. Do they not find their own way to work like everyone else?

OK to explain this. The train stays in Rosslare overnight. A Rosslare crew take it to Waterford each morning. They then get the bus back to Rosslare.

A Waterford crew operates the train to Rosslare each evening. They get the bus back to Waterford. Until last December the company had to get them a taxi back to Waterford each evening as the train arrived back to Rosslare after the last bus had gone, because they continued from Rosslare to Enniscorthy and back. There would be no other way of getting them home.

That's where the taxis come into it.

The time span between the two trains is too long for a single crew to operate it.

Solution?

Probably base an additional crew in Rosslare and operate more services during the day so that both crews start and finish in Rosslare and don't have to use buses.

dowlingm

KC61 - presumably the morning Rosslare crew operates a different service ex Hbr once they get back on the bus? Pretty short working day if they didn't!

lord lucan

While it pains me to say it,i think the best thing to do now is close the line. IE obviously have no interest in promoting and running a reasonable service on it. They've done their best to make it as un-viable as possible,it's best put to rest now.:(

Run_to_da_hills

lord lucan wrote: »

While it pains me to say it,i think the best thing to do now is close the line. IE obviously have no interest in promoting and running a reasonable service on it. They've done their best to make it as un-viable as possible,it's best put to rest now.:(

They will probably try to do the same "trick" with the WRC, the Middleton and other rejuvenated lines in a few years time. :mad:

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

KC61 - presumably the morning Rosslare crew operates a different service ex Hbr once they get back on the bus? Pretty short working day if they didn't!

Not since the new timetable - they're "on call" at Rosslare I believe.

They used to operate one of the services on the Waterford/Limerick Junction route part of the way and back. However, now that's been withdrawn in an effort to cut costs.

parsi

Judgement Day wrote: »

4) Why is it possible to travel from Enniscorthy/Wexford to Waterford but not possible to return EVER????

You mean that all those Enniscorthians who travelled to Waterford by train never came home ? Ever ? That must be a fierce population drain..:D

KC61

When it was possible to do the trip in both directions the numbers were very very negligible by all accounts. There were no regulars!

Shayman

dowlingm wrote: »

@southsider - it's not reasonable to expect employees to get home *from a different place than they started work* on their own dime.

@foggy lad - they can get a bus home, in fact at the moment they do. However, BE's timetable is now dictating IE's.

So you're telling me they do one trip park the train and get a taxi home? So who does the return trip? The journey time is only 70 mins?

Also re your previous post, they do park busses in Wexford rail station overnight so there shouldn't be a problem parking a train too?

Shayman

KC61 wrote: »

When it was possible to do the trip in both directions the numbers were very very negligible by all accounts. There were no regulars!

Well it would be wouldn't it? Rosslare > Waterford. Now if someone put on the thinking cap and ran it from Wexford where there's slightly more people......