Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

Judgement Day

KC61 wrote: »

I don't disagree that the main costs are fixed, I'm just pointing out that the gatekeepers hours do dictate the level of service that can be provided, and that three full return services would be next to near impossible given the hours available and the fact that the unit also operates a service from Waterford/Limerick Junction and v.v.

And to be quite honest I think that the closure has far more to do with the local management in Waterford than Dick Fearn. Without getting personal as I don't think it achieves anything, I really think that is where the real problem lies. They have shown zero interest in the regional routes and are only interested in Waterford/Dublin.

As for the campaign being "hijacked" - I haven't noticed that. The main forces behind the campaign are all local people as it should be.

This assumes that local management have any real power which I would strongly dispute and the reality is that they serve only as another heavy expense that the railway could do without. It has been CIE policy since the late 1960s early 1970s to remove all the rail network that is non-radial i.e. with Dublin as the hub with all routes radiating from it. There may have been some Tarquin style contributions to the Facebook campaign but perhaps not enough - I wonder how many of the so-called 'enthusiasts' even bothered to sign up to the campaign or did they just settle for buying tickets on the IRRS 'Chicken Dinner' special?

lord lucan

Judgement Day wrote: »

I wonder how many of the so-called 'enthusiasts' even bothered to sign up to the campaign or did they just settle for buying tickets on the IRRS 'Chicken Dinner' special?

I didn't sign up for either. The only thing a Facebook campaign will do is give Barry Kenny and the IE mandarins a good giggle. Even if it got 500,000 signed up it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference imo. Decision was made ages ago,the only thing that could stop it is if it made it to cabinet level and the Government waded in and told them to stop. If there was an election due they may have some leverage but with no general election due until 2012 the rails will be well rusted and sleepers rotting by then.

Hungerford

Transportuser09 wrote: »

No it hasn't, but I agree on the other points.

We'll agree to disagree on that one - the Facebook page certainly seems to have become a branch office of IRN.

Judgement Day

Interestingly the Waterford/Rosslare Facebook page has more members than the poxy Irish Rail page - a point of which I enjoyed highlighting in my daily visit to the latter.

steamengine

lord lucan wrote: »

I didn't sign up for either. The only thing a Facebook campaign will do is give Barry Kenny and the IE mandarins a good giggle. Even if it got 500,000 signed up it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference imo. Decision was made ages ago,the only thing that could stop it is if it made it to cabinet level and the Government waded in and told them to stop. If there was an election due they may have some leverage but with no general election due until 2012 the rails will be well rusted and sleepers rotting by then.

+1...........and in the words of an American theologian the following seems appropriate.........

“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

And as regards the 'enthusiasts' it would appear reading some of the recent posts regarding their support for this campaign its a case of 'damned if they did and damned if they didn't'.

In any event any one with half a brain would know that that when the 'grim reapers scythe' starts the insidious 'sweeping' back and forth through whats left of our railway lines, it won't be the IRRS or any other enthusiasts' grouping at the handle.

What I do fear, however that whenever the next economic boom occurs we may realise that our rail infrastructure is as 'behind the curve' as was our road infrastructure at the beginning of the Celtic Tiger. With this in mind the mooted closure of this particular line from a ferry port to a city etc. may well turn out to be shortsighted and politically embarassing for whatever political party that chooses to stand idly by.

lord lucan

steamengine wrote: »

What I do fear, however that whenever the next economic boom occurs we may realise that our rail infrastructure is as 'behind the curve' as was our road infrastructure at the beginning of the Celtic Tiger. With this in mind the mooted closure of this particular line from a ferry port to a city etc. may well turn out to be shortsighted and politically embarassing for whatever political party that chooses to stand idly by.

This is the crux of the problem for me. I don't have an issue with a line being closed if it's not economically viable so long as it's maintained for a time if or when it could be re-opened if conditions demand it. Unfortunately,IE's record of maintenance on 'closed' lines is poor,look at my pics from Moate a few pages back on the Mullingar-Athlone line. I fear a similar fate awaits the South Wexford and a need for it's re-opening in the future would entail millions of euro in order to restore it to an operational level.

Propellerhead

lord lucan wrote: »

This is the crux of the problem for me. I don't have an issue with a line being closed if it's not economically viable so long as it's maintained for a time if or when it could be re-opened if conditions demand it. Unfortunately,IE's record of maintenance on 'closed' lines is poor,look at my pics from Moate a few pages back on the Mullingar-Athlone line. I fear a similar fate awaits the South Wexford and a need for it's re-opening in the future would entail millions of euro in order to restore it to an operational level.

Indeed, or the lunacy that the owner of Rosslare Europort, Irish Rail, has gone out of its way to make the rail service from Dublin, Wexford and Waterford unattractive to potential customers by the simple expedient of scrapping the shipside station and indulging itself in bizarre scheduling of trains. I still believe that the CIE monolith exists for its staff and no one else.

Transportuser09

Hungerford wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree on that one - the Facebook page certainly seems to have become a branch office of IRN.

How so? Yes I know there are the occasional model rail shots, but generally it seems to be mainly run by locals with an interest in keeping the line open, with a lot of input by cllr Joe Ryan, who fair play to him has done his best to take the bull by the horns. As for IRN itself it has little to do with it as far as I can see.

shamwari

Hungerford wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree on that one - the Facebook page certainly seems to have become a branch office of IRN.

Is it not the case that the Facebook campaign page is organised locally and has nothing to do with any pro-enthusiast movement?

One also wonders why those who are spearheading the campaign on the ground down there are not on this board looking for support. I suspect that the abundance of the mis-informed sh!te posted here, coupled with the apparent and barely concealed prejudice offered to anyone who is even remotely an enthusiast would suffice in scaring them away.

Transportuser09

Exactly Shamwari. I'm sick of reading childish belittling posts with no foundation. 'Such and such is becoming an outpost of IRN' etc..., yet no explanation to back it up. IRN is just a discussion forum anyway, made up of individuals the same as Boards or any other web group. Or people using sites to hammer at the IRRS. 'Oh no, a historical group set up to record the history and development of Irish railways is not lobbying'. sure that's nearly as bad as Railusers Ireland and West-on-track who frankly have made no effort to produce a quality journal recording happenings on Irish Railways. Shall we get on to them as well? Of course not, because that would be ridiculous. I wonder if the reason that most of this crap springs up on boards and the odd facebook page is that the individuals in question are no longer permitted to post their defammatory nonsense on other sites.

Judgement Day

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Exactly Shamwari. I'm sick of reading childish belittling posts with no foundation. 'Such and such is becoming an outpost of IRN' etc..., yet no explanation to back it up. IRN is just a discussion forum anyway, made up of individuals the same as Boards or any other web group. Or people using sites to hammer at the IRRS. 'Oh no, a historical group set up to record the history and development of Irish railways is not lobbying'. sure that's nearly as bad as Railusers Ireland and West-on-track who frankly have made no effort to produce a quality journal recording happenings on Irish Railways. Shall we get on to them as well? Of course not, because that would be ridiculous. I wonder if the reason that most of this crap springs up on boards and the odd facebook page is that the individuals in question are no longer permitted to post their defammatory nonsense on other sites.

That takes care of me. Account suspended on R.U.I last night by an over zealous demi-god who has been dying to get rid of me since I signed up. IRN banned me years ago because I dislike being attacked personally on their site by name and told them that there were a bunch of tossers. I think if some of the posters here knew the crap many of us have had to put up with from IRN/RUI/IRRS etc they would appreciate just how restrained we have been.

DWCommuter

lord lucan wrote: »

I didn't sign up for either. The only thing a Facebook campaign will do is give Barry Kenny and the IE mandarins a good giggle. Even if it got 500,000 signed up it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference imo. Decision was made ages ago,the only thing that could stop it is if it made it to cabinet level and the Government waded in and told them to stop. If there was an election due they may have some leverage but with no general election due until 2012 the rails will be well rusted and sleepers rotting by then.

You and your thank you cronies should be ashamed of yourselves. You wouldn't scratch an itch. Further proof that trainspotters offer loads of comment but feck all action.

But of course you're not lobbyists, just enthusiasts.:rolleyes: Well then shut the **** up about issues and stick to IRN.

DWCommuter

Transportuser09 wrote: »

How so? Yes I know there are the occasional model rail shots, but generally it seems to be mainly run by locals with an interest in keeping the line open, with a lot of input by cllr Joe Ryan, who fair play to him has done his best to take the bull by the horns. As for IRN itself it has little to do with it as far as I can see.

My god you are full of it.

Tonight the facebook campaign deleted references to the Enniscorthy Guardian article that criticised the IRRS. (in which a campaign organiser was quoted) In addition, an apology of sorts by the same campaigner to members of the IRRS led to a an expression of valid opinions that were also deleted. So considering that the IRRS is a bunch of trainspotters, this protectionist policy by the campaign in the south east is very obvious proof that enthusiasts are pulling the strings via their connection with the IRRS. As for IRNs involvement, if their site only permitted real and vetted names, I can guarantee you that it would all fit into place.

Some of us understand how the internet works while people like you like to use its anonymous nature to fit your boring and predictable arguments.

DWCommuter

A bunch of the usual trainspotter types once asked what proof existed that enthusiasts influenced rail policy. Well tonight I hold up the Save the Rosslare - Waterford campaign as a blatant and recent example of how enthusiasts have scuppered a campaign by a combination of ignoring it (due to their own inertia) and by infiltrating it with daft contributions and an IRRS love affair that lead to censorship of valid points in support of comments made about the IRRS in a newspaper by a campaign organiser. It is now obvious that both political and enthusiast factions worked together to make a fool out of an ordinary campaigner. To what gain? Only to protect the integrity of a biased organisation.

So lets sum up lobbying in Ireland.

West on Track - Polictically driven to the detriment of sensible planning and supported by enthusiasts due to its historical and appealing nature.

Rail Users Ireland - now in the hands of closet trainspotters and helmed by Irelands greatest trainspotter and enthusiast.

Rosslare - Waterford - Tonight the facts speak for themselves. A politician who wants to be nice to everyone. (Whats new there!) A local girl who actually cares and a bunch of trainspotters that conive with the politician to control the local girl with the only genuine agenda.

Difficult to articulate in a precise manner here, but the evidence is there to back up any claim that enthusiasts really are ****ing things up.

shamwari

DWCommuter wrote: »

So lets sum up lobbying in Ireland.

West on Track - Polictically driven to the detriment of sensible planning and supported by enthusiasts due to its historical and appealing nature.

Rail Users Ireland - now in the hands of closet trainspotters and helmed by Irelands greatest trainspotter and enthusiast.

Rosslare - Waterford - Tonight the facts speak for themselves. A politician who wants to be nice to everyone. (Whats new there!) A local girl who actually cares and a bunch of trainspotters that conive with the politician to control the local girl with the only genuine agenda.

Difficult to articulate in a precise manner here, but the evidence is there to back up any claim that enthusiasts really are ****ing things up.

Again it's always everone else's fault, isn't it?

tombliboo83

The NTA are the only ones who can stop this happening. All the bs lobbying won't make a difference. But from what I can see over the years,this line was never well supported for whatever reason. The time to kick up about timetabling was years ago. Anyway, the money isn't there to put in automatic barriers to Lim Jctn let alone to Rosslare. The death knell was sounded 4years ago when the return service back to Waterford at 1910 was terminated due to gatekeeper rostering 'difficulty'.
I do think though that to placate eveyone that IE should've put on a full Summer service and if it didn't work then give it the kybosh, then nobody could have any complaint.
Also I would like to say that seeing a politician on a train is like a blue moon..extremely rare, so they don't have much weight to their words with me.
Finally, the best that can be hoped for imo is if/when it closes that IE are made maintain the line for the mothballing period of 10 yrs (this too though is unlikely)

Judgement Day

tombliboo83 wrote: »

The NTA are the only ones who can stop this happening. All the bs lobbying won't make a difference. But from what I can see over the years,this line was never well supported for whatever reason. The time to kick up about timetabling was years ago. Anyway, the money isn't there to put in automatic barriers to Lim Jctn let alone to Rosslare. The death knell was sounded 4years ago when the return service back to Waterford at 1910 was terminated due to gatekeeper rostering 'difficulty'.
I do think though that to placate eveyone that IE should've put on a full Summer service and if it didn't work then give it the kybosh, then nobody could have any complaint.
Also I would like to say that seeing a politician on a train is like a blue moon..extremely rare, so they don't have much weight to their words with me.
Finally, the best that can be hoped for imo is if/when it closes that IE are made maintain the line for the mothballing period of 10 yrs (this too though is unlikely)

Therein lies the problem, there has been no useable timetable on the line for decades and CIE have been killing the line by stealth. If you make a line unuseable and drive passengers away it makes it easier to close. I would say that they, CIE/IE and Dempsey, have been taken aback by the level of anger over the proposed closure. As I have stated previously I was a regular user of the line until it became unuseable with the introduction of the present timetable. I had intended bringing tourists over the route on a regular basis (a round trip Dublin/Waterford/Rosslare Strand/Dublin) but with the introduction of the woeful 'Commuter' railcars on the Connolly/Rosslare route I postponed the idea. Now we have the improved (22000 railcars) trains on the Connolly/Rosslare route but the connection with Waterford is gone so the scheme is once again knocked on the head. This is hardly the way to encourage passenger numbers on the route, but as those of us that study these things know that is not the on the CIE/IE agenda. :mad::mad::mad:

KC61

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=765

UPDATE Waterford to Rosslare rail line services by Corporate Communications

---

Waterford-Rosslare service update, 15th July

As customers will know, Iarnród Éireann has applied to the National Transport Authority to suspend Rosslare-Waterford rail services on 21st July, with an alternative bus service to be provide by Bus Éireann from 22nd July onwards.

No decision has yet been made by the National Transport Authority in relation to this application.

Therefore, the existing rail schedule will continue beyond 21st July until further notice. We will advise customers as soon as further information is available.

tombliboo83

You're right, the agenda has been to close the line for years. IEs business plan realy doesn't involve this line any longer. Just look at the investment in the Lim Jctn line and services were cut. IE will need to be pushed and this is why the NTA is the only hope.
I would love to be able to bring the young lad down to rosslare from Waterford and spend a day at the strand. If the line was given a proper chance with a 22000(there's a heap of them still on order) then an honest decision could be made on its future ,say after 12 months(lets not forget tall ships2011).
But the railway isn't run to always suit people, a real Irish pheneomenon.

DWCommuter

shamwari wrote: »

Again it's always everone else's fault, isn't it?

Well its hardly my fault.:rolleyes:

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

I would cite the example of yet again no special being organised from Waterford to Thurles for the Munster Hurling Final last weekend. A perfect example of an opportunity to raise awareness of the route wasted.

I would love to know the official reason for this.

The replay is the day after tomorrow.

Anyone care to contact CIE locally (ie Waterford)?

KC61

They can't claim that there was no train available - a four car 2700 could be formed using the two sets in Rosslare and Waterford.

shamwari

DWCommuter wrote: »

Well its hardly my fault.:rolleyes:

No but your constantly issuing the blame.

dowlingm

Is it me or is IrishRail.ie getting worse? Not alone with the google ads but now it has an ugly "Cork v Waterford" graphic (but wifi below in text only) which just leads to the reservation planner???

KC61 - how would the Rosslare 2700 (assuming that on Saturday it was positioned to Waterford by the crew which normally takes the bus back) get back to Rosslare for Monday service? Are positioning trains allowed to open gates themselves rather than have crossing staff open them?

There would still be the issue of crossings on the Limerick J-Waterford section. For a 4 x 2700 it doesn't seem worth the effort financially by the time you pay all the various overtimes required.

Our man in Havana

Level crossings can be crew operated if necessary.

save the rail

Stonewolf wrote: »

Goes to show just how underutilised the line is, they don't even know what Irish trains look like!

FEEL FREE TO PAY FOR NEW T-SHIRTS WITH TRAIN OF YOUR CHOICE :mad: these were sponsored and i dont really care what train is in the picture

Transportuser09

DWCommuter wrote: »

My god you are full of it.

Tonight the facebook campaign deleted references to the Enniscorthy Guardian article that criticised the IRRS. (in which a campaign organiser was quoted) In addition, an apology of sorts by the same campaigner to members of the IRRS led to a an expression of valid opinions that were also deleted. So considering that the IRRS is a bunch of trainspotters, this protectionist policy by the campaign in the south east is very obvious proof that enthusiasts are pulling the strings via their connection with the IRRS. As for IRNs involvement, if their site only permitted real and vetted names, I can guarantee you that it would all fit into place.

Some of us understand how the internet works while people like you like to use its anonymous nature to fit your boring and predictable arguments.

Having now seen the article in question, it does seem to be a little unfair towards the IRRS. One suspects the campaign may have been misguided by comments made from the usual anti-IRRS suspects. That said the campaign is doing a great job it's just a pity that such comments were written.

Transportuser09

KC61 wrote: »

They can't claim that there was no train available - a four car 2700 could be formed using the two sets in Rosslare and Waterford.

Indeed, with a bit of ingenuity it can't be that hard to make arrangements to run such a special.

Transportuser09

DWCommuter wrote: »

A bunch of the usual trainspotter types once asked what proof existed that enthusiasts influenced rail policy. Well tonight I hold up the Save the Rosslare - Waterford campaign as a blatant and recent example of how enthusiasts have scuppered a campaign by a combination of ignoring it (due to their own inertia) and by infiltrating it with daft contributions and an IRRS love affair that lead to censorship of valid points in support of comments made about the IRRS in a newspaper by a campaign organiser. It is now obvious that both political and enthusiast factions worked together to make a fool out of an ordinary campaigner. To what gain? Only to protect the integrity of a biased organisation.

From my understanding comments were made about the IRRS management not being active in the campaign to keep the line open when as has been pointed out here time and time again - it's not in their remit to do so. So to be fair things did need to be put right. The points were not valid as the were accusing an organisation of not doing something it was never intended to do.

DWCommuter wrote: »

West on Track - Polictically driven to the detriment of sensible planning and supported by enthusiasts due to its historical and appealing nature.

No evidence to back this up.

DWCommuter wrote: »

Rail Users Ireland - now in the hands of closet trainspotters and helmed by Irelands greatest trainspotter and enthusiast.

From my reading of their forums there is little to no evidence of any enthusiast type posts, more travel/consumer related issues (as it should be).

DWCommuter wrote: »

Rosslare - Waterford - Tonight the facts speak for themselves. A politician who wants to be nice to everyone. (Whats new there!) A local girl who actually cares and a bunch of trainspotters that conive with the politician to control the local girl with the only genuine agenda.

Difficult to articulate in a precise manner here, but the evidence is there to back up any claim that enthusiasts really are ****ing things up.

I don't see any evidence to support this. The odd model rail photo or the like yes but hardly evidence of inflitration. And as for enthusiasts trying to control it what do you mean?

Transportuser09

dowlingm wrote: »

Is it me or is IrishRail.ie getting worse? Not alone with the google ads but now it has an ugly "Cork v Waterford" graphic (but wifi below in text only) which just leads to the reservation planner???

KC61 - how would the Rosslare 2700 (assuming that on Saturday it was positioned to Waterford by the crew which normally takes the bus back) get back to Rosslare for Monday service? Are positioning trains allowed to open gates themselves rather than have crossing staff open them?

There would still be the issue of crossings on the Limerick J-Waterford section. For a 4 x 2700 it doesn't seem worth the effort financially by the time you pay all the various overtimes required.

Maybe, but they've managed to run specials on Sundays before despite the gate issue, certainly within the last decade.