Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

Hungerford

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

thats all capital expenditure though. Not liable for expensing against line operating costs

I'm not sure - I think they use it as evidence that the line needs massive capital expenditure that the returns would not justify. Why else would they suddenly and consistently replace trackwork on lines to shut?

Judgement Day

I have also heard it said recently that a retired IE manager (with IRRS connections) is putting it about that the Barrow Bridge is in need of major repair. Spin, spin, spin - I'm getting dizzy - talking of which where is Barry Kenny recently? :rolleyes:

Bards

This is taken from the current weeks issue of Waterford Today

http://www.waterford-today.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9928&Itemid=1&ed=943

Regional Chambers of Commerce refute allegation that decision has been taken to close Rosslare/Waterford line

The South East Chambers of Commerce are furious that Iarnrod Eireann are apparently regarding the closure of the Rosslare/Waterford line as if it was an irrevocable fact. The Chambers see this as being very far from reality and have requested a meeting with the CEO of Iarnrod Eireann to discuss the matter fully.

As the Chambers see it, the National Transport Authority (NTA) was established by Government at the end of 2009 precisely to regulate transport decisions and anything that Iarnrod Eireann wishes to do is strictly subject to approval by the NTA. Furthermore, the combined Regional Authorities in the South East and in the Mid-West (who are the representative organisations of all the various local authorities through whose jurisdictions the line runs) are so concerned about this proposal that they have commissioned an expert to investigate the viability of the route from Rosslare to Limerick Junction and the NTA should not take any decision on this matter until this report has been completed and fully considered.

While Iarnrod Eireann have acknowledged the requirement for NTA approval, their actions - such as their publication of a bus timetable that is intended to replace the Rosslare/Waterford train - demonstrates, in the eyes of South East Chambers, Iarnrod Eireann's disregard for the NTA, for the stance taken by the local authorities, for the clearly expressed viewpoint of SE Chambers and especially for the views of the passengers who use the train. To quote Chairman of SE Chambers Eric Barron, "Iarnrod Eireann attempted a pre-emptive strike by buying space in the media to publish the supposed replacement bus service ahead of the outcome of the study being conducted by the regional bodies and ahead of a decision by the NTA. If they had spent this kind of money occasionally in publicising what little service they have been providing along the line, they might have got more passengers. It is quite clear that their sole interest is in closing yet another line, instead of managing it properly and making it pay. Too many rail lines were closed in the past and the taxpayer is now financing their refurbishment and reopening at enormous expense. We cannot allow the same mistake to be repeated in this instance."

The stance taken by SE Chambers is that this line is a valuable national asset and that Iarnrod Eireann should be instructed to use the asset properly by providing three round trips daily and manage their affairs in a businesslike and innovative way which involves promoting the services. "We want the line managed a bit like Michael O'Leary manages Ryan Air," says Eric Barron.

Hungerford

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have also heard it said recently that a retired IE manager (with IRRS connections) is putting it about that the Barrow Bridge is in need of major repair.

Erm... so what's all that work they've been doing on it for the past ten years?

Judgement Day

Slightly off topic but the sacking of Richard Bruton today will surely be followed by that of his co-conspirator FG Transport spokesman Fergus O'Dowd - I doubt if it will affect the party's 'policy' on the Waterford/Rosslare line but I will take some satisfaction from it.

Transportuser09

Judgement Day wrote: »

A little bird has told me that those 'Horsemen of the Apocalypse' the Irish Railway Record Society may be running a "Farewell" tour over the Waterford/Rosslare line on the 17th July - so the end really will be on July 21st. It's the 1960s all over again and the IRRS will be in their element - yippee!! :mad:

Do we really have to start this IRRS bashing again, they're as much responsible for the closure as Rosslare Golf Club are...

Judgement Day

I know but I just can't help myself! Anyway perhaps they will preserve the station nameboard from Ballycullane.

Transportuser09

Judgement Day wrote: »

I know but I just can't help myself! Anyway perhaps they will preserve the station nameboard from Ballycullane.

But comments like that detract from an otherwise constructive discussion just so people can use this board to sound their personal grudges against various groups. There are a few organisations accountable for the closure; but the IRRS are not one of them.

shamwari

Transportuser09 wrote: »

There are a few organisations accountable for the closure; but the IRRS are not one of them.

+1

Judgement Day

More pious nonsense from FF representatives. 'I love rail' Sean Connick - with politicians like this is it any wonder CIE/IE can do what they like? :mad:

Cookie_Monster

At least Cllr. Keith Doyle can see what the problem is, even if the rest of them can't

Judgement Day

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

At least Cllr. Keith Doyle can see what the problem is, even if the rest of them can't

Well it's a damn pity he wouldn't put his party colleague Noel Dempsey in the picture! Like all politicians he's only interested in playing to the gallery.

purplepanda

If, as has been reported before, that ex & / or current senior level Irish Rail staff, are amongst the membership of these rail presavation groups, then that's a good enough reason to oppose these excursions .:mad:

It's not as if these people deserve to receive the traditional hospitality of the Wexford county & region!!!!!

They can go & run their morbid excursion on the WRC instead!!!:rolleyes:

DWCommuter

purplepanda wrote: »

If, as has been reported before, that ex & / or current senior level Irish Rail staff, are amongst the membership of these rail presavation groups, then that's a good enough reason to appose these excursions .:mad:

It's not as if these people deserve to receive the traditional hospitality of the Wexford county & region!!!!!

They can go & run their morbid excursion on the WRC instead!!!:rolleyes:

The IRRS is littered with ex staff of CIE/IE. It is a biased organisation that claims to be an accurate recorder of developments on Irish Railways, when it can easily be demonstrated that it isn't. Its a joke bogged down in traditional values that are now outdated.

If a farewell special is run over this line on behalf of the IRRS, then it can really be called the Grim Reaper Special. I bet that it will be patronated by ex and current IE senior management sorts that care more about utter ****e than the actual railway.

Any enthusiast that is a member of the IRRS should study their journals from 1970 onwards for a clear and concise picture of how this organisation fits into the picture.

Its policies and approach demonstrate a definitive example of how they are merely an "enthusiasts wing" of CIE and NOT an "independent" recorder of the Irish railway scene.

Transportuser09

It may well be littered with CIÉ/IÉ staff, but that alone does not make it part of CIÉ. If there were many CIÉ staff in a local sports club would that suddenly make the club a wing of CIÉ? No. The same goes for rail societies.

From what I understand, the role of the IRRS is to record, not neccessarily to critique. Whilst I see the value of a critique I wouldn't hold it against a group who doesn't when such a function was never part of their remit. The are the Irish Railway Record Society not the Irish Railway Critical Society.

In any case we can't blame the IRRS for the closure. It would be as ridiculous as blaming a GAA club simply because a lot of CIÉ staff played for it.

Yes they appear to have run a lot of farewell specials back in the day, it was common with British railway groups at a time too. The IRRS just happened to be the most prominent one over here. Probably more out of a chance to give enthusiasts and the like a final trip over X line than any desire to see them closed. They also, when the rare chance arises run specials on reopened lines, such as the infamous WRC trip a while ago. So 'Grim Reaper' hardly seems appropriate...

Our man in Havana

They will be dancing on the grave on the South Wexford line.

Judgement Day

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=794


General News
Current Service Alterations (Updated 14th June 2010) by Corporate Communications

Current Service Alterations (Updated 14th June 2010)

06.25 Enniscorthy to Rosslare (Tuesdays to Fridays) - will be substituted by buses.

This is the phantom, one way, rail 'service' that IE operate between Enniscorthy and Waterford. You can go but you can never come back - ever! At one stage last year there was a bus replacement between Enniscorthy and Rosslare, and another bus to Wellington Bridge with a train from Wellington Bridge to Waterford. :mad:

Southsider1

They started that Gorey - Connoly bus replacement as a temp measure during supposed track upgrades months ago and never re-instated it... Another con??

Our man in Havana

Southsider1 wrote: »

They started that Gorey - Connoly bus replacement as a temp measure during supposed track upgrades months ago and never re-instated it... Another con??

Indeed it is.

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

They started that Gorey - Connoly bus replacement as a temp measure during supposed track upgrades months ago and never re-instated it... Another con??

It was due to overnight maintenance on the overhead lines Between Connolly and Greysotnes, which meant that the train could not get down from Connolly in the mornings.

The train did resume operating when this was completed.

There appears to be more maintenance work ongoing currently overnight that is preventing the Connolly/Enniscorthy empty working from operating now.

To be honest suggesting that they are carryng out "fake works" is going a bit too far.

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

It was due to overnight maintenance on the overhead lines Between Connolly and Greysotnes, which meant that the train could not get down from Connolly in the mornings.

The train did resume operating when this was completed.

There appears to be more maintenance work ongoing currently overnight that is preventing the Connolly/Enniscorthy empty working from operating now.

To be honest suggesting that they are carryng out "fake works" is going a bit too far.

So how come it doesn't affect the DART? If as you say, it's to do with getting the train down from Connolly in the morning as you say, why not, ahem, bring it back down the same night???? Jesus, is there NO logic in CIE FFS????

Our man in Havana

Southsider1 wrote: »

So how come it doesn't affect the DART? If as you say, it's to do with getting the train down from Connolly in the morning as you say, why not, ahem, bring it back down the same night???? Jesus, is there NO logic in CIE FFS????

Overnight expenses for the driver. Overtime etc.

When the early morning service from Arklow was a rake of cravens and a 071, IE stabled the cravens in Arklow overnight and ran the loco back to Conolly only to send it back down to Arklow at 0500 each morning.

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

So how come it doesn't affect the DART? If as you say, it's to do with getting the train down from Connolly in the morning as you say, why not, ahem, bring it back down the same night???? Jesus, is there NO logic in CIE FFS????

There is actually some logic to this.

The two morning trains from Gorey and Enniscorthy are worked by Connolly drivers. These trains travel from Connolly to Enniscorthy and Gorey every morning at 0400 and 0430 to work the 0623 from Enniscorthy and the 0555 from Gorey. The work is being carried out on Monday to Thursday nights which means that the 0400 and 0430 cannot operate.

At the moment the two trains are stabling in Gorey and in Rosslare overnight rather than returning to Connolly. So the 1930 only goes to Gorey and stays there, while the train off the 1730 ex-Connolly now overnights in Rosslare and operates the 0535 through to Connolly rather than to Enniscorthy only.

It does not affect the DART because there are no overnight DART workings.

Southsider1

Haddockman wrote: »

Overnight expenses for the driver. Overtime etc.

When the early morning service from Arklow was a rake of cravens and a 071, IE stabled the cravens in Arklow overnight and ran the loco back to Conolly only to send it back down to Arklow at 0500 each morning.

Or they could send a driver down (or up) on the bus? If it's deemed good enough for the pesky customers....

So you're saying they inconvenience all their passengers just because the driver is in the wrong place? Someone needs to take that company (and it's Management/Staff) by the scruff of the neck!

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

Or they could send a driver down (or up) on the bus? If it's deemed good enough for the pesky customers....

So you're saying they inconvenience all their passengers just because the driver is in the wrong place? Someone needs to take that company (and it's Management/Staff) by the scruff of the neck!

Sigh. The driver does go back to Dublin with the passengers on the bus. He leaves the train in Gorey overnight.

There are hardly that many passengers inconvenienced given there is a train barely an hour ahead of it - when I last took it there were less than 20 people on it, if even that many.

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

Sigh. The driver does go back to Dublin with the passengers on the bus. He leaves the train in Gorey overnight.

There are hardly that many passengers inconvenienced given there is a train barely an hour ahead of it - when I last took it there were less than 20 people on it, if even that many.

Save the sarcastic 'Sigh' mate!! The fact is that passengers are inconvenienced. Now whether it's twenty or a hundred is irrelevant. And the other point here is that it's a further scaling back of an already substandard service. Your 'sigh' attitude smacks of the CIE bad attitude! The whereabouts of the drivers place of abode is also irrelevant as it, surely, is up to him to find his way to work the same as a private sector worker would have to. The sooner they privatise CIE and eliminate these lazy articles, that find performing the bare minimum of their work an inconvenience, the better!!!

Transportuser09

Southsider1 wrote: »

The whereabouts of the drivers place of abode is also irrelevant as it, surely, is up to him to find his way to work the same as a private sector worker would have to. The sooner they privatise CIE and eliminate these lazy articles, that find performing the bare minimum of their work an inconvenience, the better!!!

From my understanding, the driver's 'workplace' would be his depot. So while he would be expected to make his/her own way to Connolly, it would be unreasonable to expect him/her to travel all the way to Gorey at his own expense, as Gorey is not their designated workplace; Connolly is. (The only way around it would be for Gorey to be designated a depot and have its own drivers based there) Basically Gorey is not the driver's place of work in terms of where he is meant to turn up for duty.

The Connolly driver's duty presumably includes driving the empty train from its depot (probably Connolly) to Gorey. If the train is left at Gorey over night their is nothing unreasonable in the company making arrangements for them to get to a location over 50 miles from their designated workplace.

Judgement Day

Yes, yes but I can see where Southsider is coming from - CIE/IE is operated to suit its management and staff - the passengers/freight etc have long been regarded as a nuisance.

Southsider1

Transportuser09 wrote: »

The Connolly driver's duty presumably includes driving the empty train from its depot (probably Connolly) to Gorey. If the train is left at Gorey over night their is nothing unreasonable in the company making arrangements for them to get to a location over 50 miles from their designated workplace.

Yes and if the whole thing was set up properly the trains would be scheduled so that this wouldn't be an issue. I suspect this is one of the main contributors to the demise of the Rosslare - Waterford line. Transport for the staff.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yes, yes but I can see where Southsider is coming from - CIE/IE is operated to suit its management and staff - the passengers/freight etc have long been regarded as a nuisance.

Absolutely!! as I stated above if they put a little bit of thought into their operations there wouldn't be these issues. The whole system is a mess. For example you come out of a concert at the O2 and the trains down the country are all finished by ten? The busses run much later and in some cases all night so there is a market for later trains etc.

Transportuser09

I don't see how the railway is run to suit its staff, in the case of the Rosslare to Waterford route the driver gets into Waterford sometime around 8.30 and the return service doesn't run for 9 hours or so later, so that driver has to get back to his home depot some how (it would be unreasonable to expect them to do this at their own expense) so some arrangement has to be made (bus/taxi I assume) to allow this to happen. Same in the evening. That said if CIÉ changed the schedule (increased it) then this issue could be eliminated. Indeed, I believe the poor timetable is a critical factor in the case of this route more so than it being run to suit staff. Like it or not CIÉ has obligations to its workers and it would be wrong to have crew marooned in Waterford and forced to get back to their depot at their own cost.

CIÉ has alot to answer for in the case of this line but it's more their upperlevel staff that are to blame; it's not really the fault of the staff on the ground.