Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

Transportuser09

wild handlin wrote: »

I doubt it to be honest.

What will replace it?

Who in govt. wants to (and will get the support to) abolish CIE?

What would the public rather have? Cheap ticket prices for trains being run by a semi public/private company or expensive ticket prices with a private company?

Who is going to pay €100+ Cork - Dublin return if it becomes private. Who is going to pay €60 return Dublin - Longford or €40 return Dublin - Kildare?

I doubt it will happen any time soon, sorry to busrt the bubble....!!

Exactly.

Southsider1

Not sure if I should start a new thread for this but I feel it's pertinent here anyway: I've taken the following from the website of Cllr Brian Rafferty of Tipperary Town Council regarding the Limerick Junction - Waterford line. They're actively trying to persuade IE to be sensible with the timetable and to actually try marketing it in the hope that people would actually use it.
Consultation on next Iarnrod Eireann timetable

Iarnrod Eireann is presently in a consultation exercise with all stakeholders regarding the next rail services timetable, to be introduced late this year. They have indicated that they will welcome suggestions and well founded proposals for changes in the timetable.



So they would like to know what changes you think should be made to

Local services in South Tipperary
Commuter services in South Tipperary and beyond, to Limerick, Waterford, Cork etc
Services to Dublin and parts beyond, including connections to the new Limerick-Galway service


These suggestions and responses will be considered at a high level in Iarnrod Eireann before/during the compilation of the new timetable. While it is unlikely that every suggestion will be possible, especially in these economically difficult times, this is an important opportunity to make your views known. It might be possible to implement changes in later years.



I think this is a very commendable move by IE and I would urge you to respond to it, even as a short comment. Please pass this email on.

Please email comments to Myles McHugh Service Planning Manager, Intercity & Commuter Network, Iarnród Éireann. E: myles.mchugh@irishrail.ie:

Judgement Day

Nice idea but it's just spin - since when did CIE/IE ever listen to anybody. They are a disfunctional disaster with no place in Ireland of the 21st century. More ****e from the organisation that brought you the Horgans Quay and Mini-CTC scandals, staff selling of sleepers, a former Chairman of the company giving out contracts for crane hire to his own company, Buttevant, Cherryville, Cahir and Malahide viaducts, attempted removal of the Chief Civil Engineer for being too safety conscious, attempted removal of the most senior HR manager in the company for bullying, and we haven't even touched upon the criminal wasting of scarce resources over the last 60 years and the fact that the railway as it is presently operated is an expensive irrelevance to the vast majority of the population. :mad::mad::mad:

highlydebased

I've emailed them anyway, I dont have anything to loose...

DWCommuter

Neon-Circles wrote: »

I've emailed them anyway, I dont have anything to loose...

You do have something to lose....your integrity and self respect. They are a bunch of madmen that engage with the public in order to demonstrate an ability to engage with the public. Unfortunately its an exercise in futility, the futile bit being the feedback from the public.:rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster

OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

General News

Waterford to Rosslare rail line services by Group Secretary

The following notice is published in today's Iris Oifigiúil, and in national newspapers, concerning Waterford to Rosslare services.



CÓRAS IOMPAIR ÉIREANN TRANSPORT ACT, 1958

NOTICE AS TO TERMINATION OF TRAIN SERVICES ON THE RAILWAY LINE BETWEEN WATERFORD AND ROSSLARE.

Pursuant to section 19 of the Transport Act, 1958, the Board of Córas Iompair Éireann hereby gives notice that:-

On the 21st day of July 2010.

1. All week-day Iarnród Éireann services of trains for ordinary passenger traffic and for merchandise customarily carried by such services operating on the railway line between Waterford and Rosslare will be terminated.

2. As an alternative for passengers in the affected area, Bus Éireann on behalf of the Board will provide on week-days the new and existing road passenger services set out hereunder:-

Wonky Timetable snipped out

Services highlighted in gray are new or have been revised

3. Iarnród Éireann requires a contractual approval for this termination of service from the National Transport Authority pursuant to the Public Transport Regulation Act 2009. The Authority is considering that application at present.

Geraldine Finucane,

Group Secretary,

Heuston Station,

Dublin 8

21st May 2010.

Our man in Havana

Well it can't be done without NTA approval. The timeframe is too tight for them.

foggy_lad

they could already have approval and are keeping it under wraps or maybe they just plan to use an excuse of not enough staff or rolling stock to provide the service and put on bus transfers untill they get the required approval?

Whichever it is they are determined to close this line and others too and they will do it.

Cookie_Monster

If there's ads in the papers, I'm surprised there is no news story about it.

highlydebased

DWCommuter wrote: »

You do have something to lose....your integrity and self respect. They are a bunch of madmen that engage with the public in order to demonstrate an ability to engage with the public. Unfortunately its an exercise in futility, the futile bit being the feedback from the public.:rolleyes:

To be honest with you I've better things to be worrying about- so Irish Rail wont be touching my integrity or self respect.

Hungerford

Haddockman wrote: »

Well it can't be done without NTA approval. The timeframe is too tight for them.

The problem appears to be that Waterford-Rosslare scores quite highly under the NTA's system for calculating the social benefit for transport routes.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/social_impact_estimation_methodology.pdf

It scores particularly highly in terms of journey time compared with alternatives and serving an economically disadvantage area.

Our man in Havana

Joe Ryan wrote on the facebook page:

Important clarification to Councillors at today's SERA meeting with the NTA CEO. The NTA will have the final say on the lines future. The NTA will take the time needed to consider all submissions including the consultants report.
Reading between the lines this suggests that the 3 working days between the consultants s...ubmission and the closure date will not be enough for the NTA. The IE ad points out that the railbus replacement depends on the NTA approval

Judgement Day

A new website for the Facebook campaign here: http://savetherail.org/rosslare-waterford/

With the floodgates well and truly open down here against FF over the downgrading of Wexford Hospital see here: http://www.wexfordecho.ie/news/story/?trs=mhgbcwkfid&cat=news one might expect that there would be a landslide against FF in the next general election but sadly the 'highly sophisticated' electorate will vote the way the parents and grand parents have always done - decided upon by which side they took in the Civil War. :mad:

Judgement Day

And this from Munster Express journalist Dermot Keyes

http://www.dermotkeyes.com/iarnrod-eireann-has-failed-waterford-and-this-region/#more-762

Pity some of the National media couldn't rise to the occasion and RTE's coverage in particular has been laughable.

Sean9015

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

What? A very odd remark.

If you look at IRN the most busy posters often have names such as UK Trainspotter, MidlandDeltic and so on. Their next event highlighted is in London. I am not putting these guys down because of their location. You asked and here is the evidence. No need to be so personal or paranoid my friend.

Don't know about UKTrainspotter, but I think you'll find MidlandDeltic lives in the IRISH midlands......

Judgement Day

All the latest from the New Ross Standard here: http://irishrailways.blogspot.com/

Southsider1

Chambers refute allegation that decision taken to close rail line




Premium Article !

The South East Chambers of Commerce are furious that Iarnrod Eireann are apparently regarding the closure of the Rosslare/Waterford line as if it was an irrevocable fact. The Chambers see this as being very far from reality and have requested a meeting with the CEO of Iarnrod Eireann to discuss the matter fully.
As the Chambers see it, the National Transport Authority (NTA) was established by Government at the end of 2009 precisely to regulate transport decisions and anything that Iarnrod Eireann wishes to do is strictly subject to approval by the ermore, the combined Regional Authorities in the South East and in the Mid-West (who are the representative organisations of all the various local authorities through whose jurisdictions the line runs) are so concerned about this proposal that they have commissioned an expert to investigate the viability of the route from Rosslare to Limerick Junction and the NTA should not take any decision on this matter until this report has been completed and fully considered.

While Iarnrod Eireann have acknowledged the requirement for NTA approval, their actions - such as their publication of a bus timetable that is intended to replace the Rosslare/Waterford train - demonstrates, in the eyes of South East Chambers, Iarnrod Eireann's disregard for the NTA, for the stance taken by the local authorities, for the clearly expressed viewpoint of SE Chambers and especially for the views of the passengers who use the train. To quote Chairman of SE Chambers Eric Barron, "Iarnrod Eireann attempted a pre-emptive strike by buying space in the media to publish the supposed replacement bus service ahead of the outcome of the study being conducted by the regional bodies and ahead of a decision by the NTA. If they had spent this kind of money occasionally in publicising what little service they have been providing along the line, they might have got more passengers. It is quite clear that their sole interest is in closing yet another line, instead of managing it properly and making it pay. Too many rail lines were closed in the past and the taxpayer is now financing their refurbishment and reopening at enormous expense. We cannot allow the same mistake to be repeated in this instance."

The stance taken by SE Chambers is that this line is a valuable national asset and that Iarnrod Eireann should be instructed to use the asset properly by providing three round trips daily and manage their affairs in a businesslike and innovative way which involves promoting the services. "We want the line managed a bit like Michael O'Leary manages Ryan Air," says Eric Barron.




Page 1 of 1 Last Updated: 10 June 2010 10:16 AM
[*] Source: The Nationalist
[*] Location: Clonmel, County Tipperary
[/LIST]

Judgement Day

When I recently pursued FG Transport Supremo, Fergus O'Dowd, for the definitive FG position on the closure of the Waterford/Rosslare railway this was the best that he could manage - received today - more than three months after I originally contacted him. Quite why some ancient piece by an FG senator (whom I had never heard of) should represent FG policy on the Waterford/Rosslare line is beyond me. That's another vote lost for Paul Kehoe.

MONDAY 15 Mar 10

Rumoured closure of Limerick Junction rail line makes nonsense of transport policy and massive Western Rail corridor investment – Coffey Commenting on reports that Iarnród Éireann is planning to close Waterford's rail links both with Rosslare and Limerick Junction, Fine Gael Senator Paudie Coffey deplored transport planning by press leak and criticised the plans as making no sense in an overall transport strategy.

Commenting on reports that Iarnród Éireann is planning to close Waterford's rail links both with Rosslare and Limerick Junction, Fine Gael Senator Paudie Coffey deplored transport planning by press leak and criticised the plans as making no sense in an overall transport strategy. "RTÉ news reported on Friday that Iarnród Éireann was planning to close its Waterford-Rosslare rail line. That's bad news in itself. However there is worse reported in the Sunday Tribune (Sunday 14th March) which claims Iarnród Éireann has been in secret talks with Noel Dempsey's Transport Ministry to scrap the Waterford-Clonmel-Limerick Junction line as well. "Iarnród Éireann says it only recoups two percent of the cost of the Rosslare line in fares but seeing as they hardly run any trains, this is not surprising. There is a train from Rosslare at seven in the morning, and one back from Waterford at five twenty in the evening. The morning train isn't convenient for County Wexford shoppers coming into the city and the evening one isn't ideal for commuters. "If you compare the way the Suir Valley Railway runs successful tourist services through the summer, it's obvious there is scope for developing daytime trains through Wellington Bridge to Rosslare. And that's without taking account of the environmental argument for shifting freight by rail to Rosslare Europort. “I'm astonished by talk of closing the line to Limerick Junction. The Government is about to complete the first phase of the costly Western Rail Corridor, which will reopen the link between Limerick and Galway. This has involved re-laying track between Ennis and Athenry. The cost was estimated at €74m but Iarnród Éireann admits it will be €106m, and that's without buying rolling stock – track but no trains. "The first trains on the Western Rail Corridor should run in the next few weeks. What a time to talk about closing the Munster Rail Corridor. In fact, these are not two separate issues. The Western Rail Corridor was recommended by an Expert Working Group set up by the Government in 2005, which produced the McCann Report which argued that 'substantial rail freight could be carried southwards on the Western Rail Corridor all the way to Waterford’. McCann said this was important 'because Waterford is the only port with direct rail access on its quays; containers can be lifted directly from the freight cars onto the vessel’. This reduces handling costs and makes rail freight competitive with moving bulk goods by road. "The McCann Report added 'another benefit from carrying rail freight southwards on the Western Rail Corridor to Waterford is that it will free up rail capacity in the Dublin area especially at Connolly Station'. So the Limerick Junction-Waterford rail link is fundamental to the Western Rail Corridor strategy, on which the taxpayer has just spent €106m."This is not just a local issue for Waterford. It is about our ability as a country to produce an integrated transport plan. The Government's 'Transport 21' plan was obviously a gimmick. Closing two rail lines out of Waterford will make it a farce. Rail transport is too important for hole-in-the-corner talks between Iarnród Éireann and civil servants, which we only find out about through kite-flying in a Sunday paper."

http://irishrailways.blogspot.com/2010/06/fine-gael-policy-on-waterfordrosslare.html

Southsider1

Judgement Day. With respect, what else did you expect? Fine Gael have no definitive position on anything as have Labour. If they had, they'd have resigned en masse by now forcing an election. We're in a sad situation in Ireland today where we have a useless Government and an equally useless opposition. The next General Election will be useless because everyone sitting in Leinster House are wasters that are happy to skim off vast sums of our money on ficticous expense claims and junkets. These guys can scam sums of up to eighty grand and get away with it while if you or I made a false or incorrect Social Welfare claim we'd be prosecuted damn fast. So, and I know I'm way off thread here, the short answer is that until we ALL get off our arses and take to the streets and throw every one of them out and install NEW people in Dail Eireann we are fcuked as is our infrastructure and associated assets.

End of rant and apologies for diverting from topic.

Judgement Day

Southsider1 - we are singing off the same hymn sheet but I like to give the useless ****ers rope to hang themselves - hence my request to FG for a definitive answer regarding the closure. I totally agree with you that the opposition are as bad as the Government and are devoid of original thinking but I think hell will freeze over before anything changes.

Southsider1

Judgement Day wrote: »

Southsider1 - we are singing off the same hymn sheet but I like to give the useless ****ers rope to hang themselves - hence my request to FG for a definitive answer regarding the closure. I totally agree with you that the opposition are as bad as the Government and are devoid of original thinking but I think hell will freeze over before anything changes.

Very sad but very true too.

Judgement Day

A little bird has told me that those 'Horsemen of the Apocalypse' the Irish Railway Record Society may be running a "Farewell" tour over the Waterford/Rosslare line on the 17th July - so the end really will be on July 21st. It's the 1960s all over again and the IRRS will be in their element - yippee!! :mad:

Our man in Havana

Typical of them alright. Will their train have an artefact collection van in tow?

Judgement Day

Shouldn't think that there will be much need for an artefacts van on the tour as CIE's scorched earth policy has ensured that with the exception of Wellington Bridge, every trace of station buildings, cabins etc have been swept way. Well illustrated in this recent picture of Ballycullane from Eiretrains.com - Until fairly recently there wasn't even a nameboard at this station.

Hungerford

Judgement Day wrote: »

A little bird has told me that those 'Horsemen of the Apocalypse' the Irish Railway Record Society may be running a "Farewell" tour over the Waterford/Rosslare line on the 17th July - so the end really will be on July 21st.

I wouldn't bet on that. I think that there are several more twists in the tale, particularly as those pesky kids at the NTA seem to be asking awkward questions about the closure plans.

Southsider1

I agree with the previous poster. I spoke with a south Tipp councillor yesterday and he says they are very actively opposing the closure and are drawing on various bits of legislation to support them. The war isn't over yet...apparantley....

purplepanda

Obviously it is IE's intention to close these lines in stages by picking them off one by one, whilst Waterford Rosslare is first in line, as soon as it's closed Waterford Limerick Junction will be next. And Limerick Nenagh. :mad: Splitting all opposition into bite size pieces for the IE Dinosaur.:rolleyes:

The campaign against these railway line closures needs to be totally integrated, it's no use the people of Tipp Waterford Offaly & Munster watching as Rosslare Waterford falls. These railway lines should be defended as one integrated transport system, exactly what IE don't want people to understand or notice until it's too late

Cookie_Monster

I was talking to an IE engineer yesterday and he mentioned they only just put in 6 miles of CWR in on some part of the Rosslare line (I can't remember where exactly). Seems stupid if they knew they were going to close it. He seemed as baffled as I wass by it though...

Hungerford

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I was talking to an IE engineer yesterday and he mentioned they only just put in 6 miles of CWR in on some part of the Rosslare line (I can't remember where exactly). Seems stupid if they knew they were going to close it. He seemed as baffled as I wass by it though...

It's an old CIE trick - basically increase expenditure on the line to increase its losses to support the case for closure. They did quite a lot of this to help shut the West Cork lines in the early 1960s.

Cookie_Monster

Hungerford wrote: »

It's an old CIE trick - basically increase expenditure on the line to increase its losses to support the case for closure. They did quite a lot of this to help shut the West Cork lines in the early 1960s.

thats all capital expenditure though. Not liable for expensing against line operating costs