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*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*
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Rumours around players aint happy on a few issues0
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On Sunday you ask how the Dinny Cahill appointment is going down and on Tuesday you talk about rumours of unhappy players.
Give that man a spoon!!!!!:rolleyes::P
Only going on what my limerick friends were telling today.Not unhappy just things that need to be set in place and ironed out0 -
There will be a revolt after a few weeks of training. A joke of a set up.0
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How could there be a revolt? ? There are players on the panel who think they are big names but at the end of the day they aren't fit to wear a limerick jersey . Only ones that will crib are the fellas hanging on .they should adopt the stance the u 21s took and have open trials and let everybody battle out for places instead of saying it's a joke of a set up . Dinny cahill is old school, he only wants committed hurling men regardless of name or club, he has no time for lads swanning around injured when there is **** and dirt on the field and trotting on in the fine weather come cship, just cos he doesn't coach by computer or flip charts, old school = hard work , let's see who the hurling men are now.0
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Ah lads are we not jumping the gun here to a huge degree? Have they even had a field session yet? Surely its fitness work for the immediate future so everyone is at the same or similar level so the coaching can start with everyone in a position to benefit equally? I would also think that the 'modern' player (whatever exactly that is) is coming from a background of analysis at schools, minor and u-21 so would expect some element of the same at senior level.0
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Ard scoil ris into the u15.5 final in Munster after beating midleton, good result for them, dunno who their stars are but good to see them staying in the elite schools in Munster0
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I can't post a link so some kind soul might do so for me but Jerome O'Connell has just tweeted that 'Paul Kinnerk gets a Limerick hurling role & a Donegal 2012 All Ireland SFC winner gets Limerick football role. See LeaderSport Thursday' Will be interesting to see what role he has been offered with the hurlers. Actually just thinking there is it the video analysis role? Did that become vacant recently or is that too much of a backroom role?0
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I can't post a link so some kind soul might do so for me but Jerome O'Connell has just tweeted that 'Paul Kinnerk gets a Limerick hurling role & a Donegal 2012 All Ireland SFC winner gets Limerick football role. See LeaderSport Thursday' Will be interesting to see what role he has been offered with the hurlers. Actually just thinking there is it the video analysis role? Did that become vacant recently or is that too much of a backroom role?
I kinda presumed it was a coaching with the underage set ups or development squads since all the senior management spots seem to be filled. I think we already got Cork's video analysis guy from last year.0 -
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glasagusban wrote: »I kinda presumed it was a coaching with the underage set ups or development squads since all the senior management spots seem to be filled. I think we already got Cork's video analysis guy from last year.
Vidoe analysis will get u a long way :pac:
. Overdone by some counties, Just look at the irish rugby team they played like zombies and were afraid to do things off the cuff because if they did they would be slaughtered by video analysis.0 -
glasagusban wrote: »I kinda presumed it was a coaching with the underage set ups or development squads since all the senior management spots seem to be filled. I think we already got Cork's video analysis guy from last year.
You are correct it is a consultancy role underage according to the Leader this morning. Just on your other point the Leader had a story last week that the lad they had lined up is actually staying with Cork.0 -
glasagusban wrote: »I kinda presumed it was a coaching with the underage set ups or development squads since all the senior management spots seem to be filled. I think we already got Cork's video analysis guy from last year.
he is from the same club as tj ryan, he is a teacher inscoil pol kilfinnane0 -
This is old news and I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned here regards Kinnerk earlier when four days ago when Martin kiely first tweeted the newsglasagusban wrote: »I kinda presumed it was a coaching with the underage set ups or development squads since all the senior management spots seem to be filled. I think we already got Cork's video analysis guy from last year.
Kinnerk is head coach over all the academic sides which is super news for Limerick considering last year was huge dip in form of the development standard but no great surprise as daly only director and he's great organise he's actually coaching record isn't great
This set up with daly director and Kinnerk head coach from under fourteen up well work and it looks like that Fraggie Murphy is going to clare as coach from cork
Well done to ard scoil yesterday they beat a very strong midelton team and imo will win the dean Ryan cup now which is under sixteen half trophy0 -
he is from the same club as tj ryan, he is a teacher inscoil pol kilfinnane
Hugely regarded from the cork set up but problem is all the video information in the world like in cork is irrelevant if like jbm you have old school tactics manager that refuses change style and also information is great but the key is how it's interpreted so o Donnell is excellent but that change alone will make zero difference to limerick unless other things change0 -
Vidoe analysis will get u a long way :pac:
. Overdone by some counties, Just look at the irish rugby team they played like zombies and were afraid to do things off the cuff because if they did they would be slaughtered by video analysis.
I see your point and it can be over done by some but video assessment imo just relays information it's not imo the main fault in its up to the management to devising a game plan
Schmidt like jbm in hurling had set style to play the game and refused to change so yes video assessment you're correct the stats video assessment ireland would have been critsed if played expansive game but that all cause the coach made it clear he didn't want an expansive game of full length rubgy
The video assessment gives the information it's up to the coaches how they use it
Argentina have a video assessment also the difference is though they have ex all blacks coach Henry coaching there backs and he way is the all black way, run run run and offload..
Ireland style all year was run up the middle.
Henry choosed to use he's information differently from he's video assessment than schmidt
Taking the rubgy team example as you used the six nations it was abundantly clear that having struggled to create tries v Wales in defeat and one try from a kick v England that as George hook said all in the world cup warm up and even pre world cup that ireland were a limited team but he said he had to stop saying it as he got too much critsim when everyone ireland media seem to think bar David corkery also ireland would indeed win the world cup and anyone who went against the hype was deemed to be unpopular
How ironic that the man the media in ireland choose to dislike all over one decision with the lions, he's Welsh team actually out perform ireland and were competitive with way more injury was Warren gatland
I don't think video assessment had any impact in ireland, injuries obviously told but a conservative game plan which was the choice of the coach as that is the style he wanted and playing Keith earls as a centre in international rubgy when all the stats from he's time at munster and ireland show he never will be a top centre imo had more to do with ireland loosing
Video assessment would have showed this time and time again by looking at old games, the problem here was the coach ignored what was quite ovibous
One thing from the world cup that has stood out is most pundits now agree that southern hemisphere is way ahead of the northern hemisphere and there's an acknowledgement that the six nations is good game with average teams really
Imo munster hurling is becoming that gap where on any given day munster team look good against each other but the truth unfortunately is kk have a huge gap between team
Looking at munster from management structure it doesn't look good next year
Limerick while I think Cahill was good considering the lack of choice it seems there is big problem there
Clare won't have Kinnerk so that's a huge loss
Tippeary seem to have problems getting a back room team and the man they should have Conor Gleasson in there is with offaly
There talk Jason Ryan is going in
If so imo hardly inspiring
Cork with Kingston have the best man available in cork but Cork have named no designated coach with all selectors doing a bit here and there
Imo that shows a lack of coaching structure and responsibilities as you need imo a head coach
Waterford system is good to a point but Henry shefflin said no sweeper system will ever beat kk and teams must have attack
The time to beat kk was this year for teams
Very hard to see anyone coming close next year imo
The problem in Galway isn't good for Galway or the game and Cunningham should walk
In fairness he's had he's time there but some management think there job is there's for life despite no all ireland
He is a good coach but it's clear he won't beat kk in all ireland final
Galway need a change
What's ironic is Cyril farell last year said Galway out grew Cunningham yet most now feel players are wrong despite making it known they didn't want him getting a new term
In limerick I would hope there isn't problems ahead but there's a lot of talk that there is even so the Monaleen delegate said at the ccb meeting as reported in the leader players weren't happy but the limerick chairman said he didn't hear anything
I suppose it's hard to hear when you choose not to hear in the ist instance but you only hear what you want Which seems to be evident with the limerick ccb
I agree with your post yesterday that there's a lot of talk that things are not good at the moment in camp
Kinnerk joining the under age limerick imo also again raises the question why did he go here and not the senior0 -
TTM why did kinnerk take the Limerick underage role not Clare seniors you mean?0
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glasagusban wrote: »TTM why did kinnerk take the Limerick underage role not Clare seniors you mean?
Fair point that like I said on clare thread last week would be huge bonus to clare
The question is though why did Kinnerk choose to not take limerick senior job despite two years in row being asked? By the same token of the question you asked me why didn't Kinnerk go to the senior limerick team
He has now twice went to limerick football and hurling under age and just my opinion and it's reasonable to suggest he seems get involved most limerick teams rather than senior hurling
The clare scene there seems to be iissues however again the players have backed management publicly so until they don't nothing really imo to think
If Kinnerk was involved ye would imo be a serious team
The good news for Limerick is he's not with clare either so it doesn't mean there as strong as when they won the all ireland and limerick play them in clare in a crucial league game in spring0 -
I would agree with the principles of your points to some degree in there's some hurlers purely field play performance wise imo not up to senior elite inter county v kk etc that would imo be dropped and I agree players can't complain as cody kk has that ruthless edgeStonehall9 wrote: »How could there be a revolt? ? There are players on the panel who think they are big names but at the end of the day they aren't fit to wear a limerick jersey . Only ones that will crib are the fellas hanging on .they should adopt the stance the u 21s took and have open trials and let everybody battle out for places instead of saying it's a joke of a set up . Dinny cahill is old school, he only wants committed hurling men regardless of name or club, he has no time for lads swanning around injured when there is **** and dirt on the field and trotting on in the fine weather come cship, just cos he doesn't coach by computer or flip charts, old school = hard work , let's see who the hurling men are now.
I don't think anyone has been dropped yet in training hasn't begun but I feel for Cahill as imo could be caught in the middle as like llimerllimerick journalist said last week it seems there's follow on from Ryan term and the problems may not be Cahill
I said last week the previous trend of Cahill team are he always always has new players and drops few older lads and at rynagh in offaly doon and other teams he goes with youth but the timing have to be key in replacing players too early would cause imo things to unsettle
If indeed there was dropping of players Before training presume while the idea was right imo it's asking for problem when training should be resumes for a month then lads dropped
Unfortunately some have to be dropped as there not good enough for inter county
Anyone that thinks that is harsh they should get the book the hurling revolution years by Denis Walsh and just read pages 243 to 248 and it clearly defined cody and mick o flynn kk and Johnny Walsh kk attuide to dropping players and it in detail gave a great pictures of how cody was in there words soft minded management but after Galway beat them fourteen years ago cody pledged he's going to be ruthless
And look at every passing year he is
Jim gavin said it once Dublin lost last year he was totally wrong in he's role but said wouldn't happen again
It hasn't
Unfortunately just like in cork the dropping of certain players will be unpopular when the reality is in order for Limerick to move forward things have to change and new players have to come in
You can't keep going with the same panel and expect different results year on year when the opposition know there game inside out0 -
Page 244 to page 250 in Denis Walsh excellent book called the hurling years there's some excellent reading which shows kk post math mind-set after the galway defeat in which dj Carey said was a watershed for cody in he picked Andy comford concussed the Tuesday in training, McCoy was injured, Barry like wise,dj carey said he himself was injured with John power but cody picked all the players over fitter lads and carey said in the book cody was soft at mind but cody blamed himself for that performance but never ever would it happens again.
It didn't either.Cody wasn't always ruthless in he was once as said in the book soft minded in management but in defeat he became ruthless.
Flynn kk trainer words from the book page 249 are
As follows:
I suppose there are players who went by the wayside and a lot of people jaws would have been dropping on account of it, but there's a time when things have to move on. In some cases it wasn't a total loss of form, but there comes a time when you have to wield the axe.
Brian is very good at seeing a player in decline.
It's a tough call, because you're talking about players that have been loyal to you and that you had a good relationship with in a lot of cases, but you just have to say, okay right this is it.
You go on for another year with this player but at the end of the day you could be sorry. ")
Flynn quote as in the book above imo shows why alone kk are and will always be kk just like kerry and Dublin they are ruthless and have no problem changing things.
Kerry lost this year but as kerry football do they will change for next year.
The book mentioned that Affection isn't something there in cody relationship with the squad Denis Walsh said, he says cody is serious minded fella carrying out serious business in a hard headed fashion.
Cody never flinched despite up roar and calls to Kilkenny radio the book mentioned over Carter being dropped and then Mcevoy leaving.
Cody simply is ruthless. It was tough for cody then as he hadn't the legacy he has now.
If cody dropped five next year team, no body in kk would question cody and correctly so as he's record means you have to trust him.
The next managment of any team that have not won an all ireland but with same panel for a while will have no doubt have to drop a few of the panel and unfortunately they don't have success behind them so some will question it but like cody done as the book said they have to brazen it out and in limerick it is easier when limerick under twenty one have success, had minor etc and some won fresher and indeed Fitzgibbon cup last year with some having success at school even in dean Ryan and harty cup with ard scoil something some senior never had so the young lads have developed there hurling in a winning culture and that is a huge help in transition to senior.
Jbm was ruthless in 99 when he got in the under twenty ones players but has to drop senior players like Barry egan cashman etc when they were much favoured in cork but Cork had to evolve and move forward. Some of the senior players need to stay no doubt about that.
There's an argument that kk always had players coming through but still cody still developed them and got another increase in performance and limerick to be fair have outstanding limerick young hurlers coming through, really top class hurlers so the earlier they're brought in it speeds up development.
You need expirence with them but some limerick panel could be dropped.
Warren gatland had to drop one of the greatest ever rubgy players in Brian o Driscoll on performance alone and it proved to be correct.
Some of the limerick panel to be fair purely on performance imo have no reason to question being dropped. In teams you have to be ruthless to make changes if things before weren't successful be either style of play of players involved.
Dublin changed there style of play this year and won the football and limerick changed there under twenty one style from orthodox and won the all ireland this year.
There is always this view ah it's harsh on player that are dropped but like kk motto it has to be done at times and I'm the view it's equally as harsh to a lad that never gets a chance yet others on the panel for ages get chance after chance year on year.
Imo only one side of the coin is realised when players are dropped when the other side isn't taken in to consideration.
I don't think any geuinely gaa fan likes or gets joy from a player being dropped but unfortunately it's part and parcel of the game and senior players surely know this when they play the game.
Kk is always imo the reference for me simply as any team at school or under age and particularly at senior and even club there's always the chance you have to beat a kk team to succeed at one time or another.
The first and only way team will become like kk imo is by having there attuide.
You can't just expect a team to be ruthless in a given day in performance lf there in a culture where management aren't ruthless.
Kk as a team are ruthless because most teams usually are a reflection of the environment that a manager brings in.
If it's not working kk are ot afraid to change things and even in club management they will make changes if needed. And kk are probably one of the few that even when they win they are ruthless the following year in nothing stays as it is with kk bar of course there magnificent attuide to the game and indeed winning.
It's never anything unlike cork or limerick or other counties where at times it becomes emotional with certain decision it's purely on performance on the field.
You complain in kk not getting a game but no one gives that thought much time simply as they say unfortunately it may not even be that your not good enough you may well even be but if there's some one better than can give more to the team performance then there added irrespective of what you have done before in the jersey, no one own any jersey imo in your simply wearing it for a time period And that should be the case.
Yes management have to be loyal to players but you got to know when to change things.
In relation to young limerick hurling talent the great news for Limerick is ul fresherswith a few promising limerick hurlers are flying again under declan Fitzgerald and will be hard stopped to be beaten in there aim to retain there title.
A lot of the panel are ex under age players.
Wasn't at the match v nui Galway two days ago but I heard this that Barry Nash was excellent, Andrew la touche Cosgrove was a sub, he's that good but that the level of competition in the team, and they won well in the league fresher game. Lorchan lyons is also meant to be on the panel.
The star of the show was meant to been Richie Leahy the Kilkenny minor the lad notorious for the hop of the sliothar at pace in the grounds v Galway twice this year.
He was i was told outstanding and the only thing different from he's summer games was he wore a black helmet instead of he's normally yellow one but he's form was just like the summer, he was very good i was told.
That ul team has some talent. Seamus Bourke from the minor team two years ago that played full back for cork but can play centre back or full forward for club is there, Andrew Gaffney Kilkenny minor and won schools all ireland, Jamie Porter I think is involved, Sean Power kk is there, this year excellent waterford minor jp Lucey with the waterford minor captain from two years ago a very good player Shane Ryan meant to be involved.
He's a very good forward.
Any limerick hurler or indeed any hurler will have to be performing to start on that ul team so that in a way being so competitive will get the best out of there game.
Rory Hayes from clare is there and if he's the players I'm thinking off i seen him in the harty for chaoimhins last year and he was good.
Ul will be extremely hard to beat again there toughest problem will be trying to get the balance right.
But limerick hurling will improve with Nash and Cosgrave etc being involved in such a quality ul hurling environment at fresher and indeed Fitzgibbon cup next year.
Limerick have the hurling talent and under sixteen all ireland, minor success under twenty one all ireland showed it's been consistent performance and if they had top senior management imo would be some team.
I totally agree with the poster in trials should be open with key indicator in performance set in the senior panel and then a panel picked for the waterford crystal and league
Lads that have been on the senior panel should be expected to excel in these trials as they have years conditioning and experience others don't have so imo any player just has average performance should be looked at in terms of is he what they want at senior.
Expectation must be set, as expectation drives performance but you must bring in change to change expectation if things of the past failed.
Cork football has drastically imo went from no expectation to realistic expectation all before a ball has been kicked all because the management hit the ground running, have appointed senior experience successful club selector with experience from an all ireland winning cork team with each having clear defined management roles.
When management do that with the back room team it naturally instill belief.
It remains to be seen how good cork football can be but at least in just five days management clearly made a statement of professional organisation with expirence in the back room team are leading the cork ship.
Under twenty one draw is tonight with the minor and limerick will have clare at home and Cork if they meet at under twenty one with tipp away I think.
The under age with Kinnerk will be stronger next year but it seems he's only working up to under seventeen level so limerick minor coaching staff isn't changed much from last year bar leo going to the intermediate team.
Cork certainly would have no fear playing limerick in the minor as it's in cork but in under twenty one hurling cork playing limerick would be a poor draw for cork as this under twenty one team if management stay as it will be extremely hard to beat next year by not just munster team but by any other team in the country imo as limerick imo can win another under twenty title again.0 -
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Extremely tough draw for cork in under twenty one hurling limerick in cork
Playing the all ireland champions is huge ask for cork
Limerick minors have clare and should be happy with that0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Extremely tough draw for cork in under twenty one hurling limerick in cork
Playing the all ireland champions is huge ask for cork
Limerick minors have clare and should be happy with that
What way are cork u21s next yr TTM?Surely they'll be competitive esp at home.If i am correct Limerick will have to beat Cork in cork Tipp in Tipp then more than likely Waterford and all that just to win Munster?Some ask.
Regarding the Limk seniors next yr i 100% agree with Stonehall all this talk of people and players not being happy well i tell you i,m not happy with some players either.I think it's time the players/management/coaches knuckled down and just get the hell on with it learn from the mistakes of this yr and drive on.To the management stop the nod and wink approach and play the players that are doing it in training and leave the prima donnas out.For Tj Ryan next yr should be seen as an oppurtunity do go and do what needs to be done as most see him as a if you like lame duck manager as none expect him to be in control this time next yr and some believe he won't be in charge next spring.
First step imo would be to go out and win promotion.0 -
Its good to have kinnerk involved at any level, underage seems in reasonably good shape. Minor ok, U-21 good. We have some good coaches potentially waiting to take over next year, carey, kinnerk, kiely. Just need to get through the disaster of 2016 without too much fallout and then move on.
Would like to see NaP go all the way and win the AI but hard to see them doing it. Realistically they are a stronger side than kilmallock, who got to the AI last year.
TG4 showing game sunday? Live or deferred?0 -
All of what you say is something I agree with however it's imo hugely significant that carey success at lix naw and the well was with foley as coach and yes carey managed camoige success at club etc and I don't doubt he brings good quality to a set up I'd remain to be convinced he's coaching material on he's own for Limerick senior inter county after under twenty one termpaddy no 11 wrote: »Its good to have kinnerk involved at any level, underage seems in reasonably good shape. Minor ok, U-21 good. We have some good coaches potentially waiting to take over next year, carey, kinnerk, kiely. Just need to get through the disaster of 2016 without too much fallout and then move on.
Would like to see NaP go all the way and win the AI but hard to see them doing it. Realistically they are a stronger side than kilmallock, who got to the AI last year.
TG4 showing game sunday? Live or deferred?
Foley seems to be hugely rated and imo would be ideal with limerick intermediate and have a change as o connor had he's time with minors and under twenty one and imo limerick need new faces in coaching
Stephen mcdonagh who bruree are county intermediate final and Peter finn with charville this Saturday intermediate county final imo would be coaches with more potential imo then carey for Limerick teams
Certainly though carey was outstanding player and I hope it works for him in kerry and he's definitely imo bringing good management quality to that kerry job0 -
Having Kinnerk involved with the underage is a huge asset; while everyone would like him to be involved with the seniors, having a constant flow of good hurlers coming up through the ranks is vital. We've had it good in recent seasons, someone like Kinnerk can make that continue to happen. It's playing the long game but he has a proven record with young teams and I'm delighted with his appointment. And if he can improve our other coaches too, even better.
Carey did an unbelievable job with the Well yesterday, I don't think it can be underrated. He didn't do great with the 21s last year but the players were very young for the most part and were against an exceptional Clare team. Wouldn't read too much into it. Himself and Foley together seem to work well together, have also heard good things about Foley.0 -
No doubt carey deserves credit but foley was with him so my point is carey on he's own with limerick may not work but with foley he's proven success and progress in two different counties so foley carey combination would be okayFireball07 wrote: »Having Kinnerk involved with the underage is a huge asset; while everyone would like him to be involved with the seniors, having a constant flow of good hurlers coming up through the ranks is vital. We've had it good in recent seasons, someone like Kinnerk can make that continue to happen. It's playing the long game but he has a proven record with young teams and I'm delighted with his appointment. And if he can improve our other coaches too, even better.
Carey did an unbelievable job with the Well yesterday, I don't think it can be underrated. He didn't do great with the 21s last year but the players were very young for the most part and were against an exceptional Clare team. Wouldn't read too much into it. Himself and Foley together seem to work well together, have also heard good things about Foley.
Limerick ex minor coach aonghus o brien from last few years has joined clare senior hurling team and he's a clare man but joined as coach or a coaching role.
Kinnerk will be magnificent with the under age team but the worry is at minor the success won't be followed through as you still need good coaching at minor.
Cork are a classic example winning under fourteen and fifteen and had excellent under sixteen team pushed limerick all the way when limerick won all ireland yet limerick development at minor continued through good coaching cork had poor minor management three years ago meant when limerick improved cork never did at minor
Yes it's great for Limerick but minor needs to be looked at if there's no success this year as limerick have outstanding talents
There is numerous young hurlers coming through and one example is the Ryan brothers playing with doon in the harty and eligible for minor for the next two years and recently played limerick minor county final for doon and like Peter casey while he's over age now for minors the fact he played in all ireland finals at sixteen shows there some great talent in limerick under age
Wallace in limerick among other made great progress with the academy but Kinnerk will take it a step further and Kinnerk is a top top modern coach in all aspects of coaching and he keep evolving which is a great sign of a coach.0 -
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Limerick Peter finn was involved with charville winning the county intermediate tonight.
A good coach with a good club record in the past.0 -
Well done Na P, keep it going. Any details?0
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paddy no 11 wrote: »Well done Na P, keep it going. Any details?
Game of 2 halves really, due to the very strong wind.
N.P. trailed Bridge by 9 points at half time.
Second half goals from Downes and Peter Casey put N.P. in the driving seat.
Gilligan hit the post with a last minute 21 that would have won it for the Bridge.
N.P. problems in the full back line exposed again today, especially in the first half.0
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