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*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*
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Na Piarsaigh are Munster champions again; still unbeaten in Munster, some record.
That 2nd half performance was incredible by any standards. 1-14 in half an hour is super scoring. They've been slow enough to get going in the first half in all their games in Munster this year, and that may remain a worry, but they've been able up the gears whenever they wanted.
And that was without Kevin Downes, and David Breen only got a run-out towards the end.
They must fancy their chances of winning it outright this year.0 -
wonderful achievement by NaPiarsaigh
heres hoping they push on to all ireland glory
fitting reward for all the hard work being done
limerick hurling continues to shine,exciting times ahead.0 -
wonderful achievement by NaPiarsaigh
heres hoping they push on to all ireland glory
fitting reward for all the hard work being done
limerick hurling continues to shine,exciting times ahead.
3 in 5 years, some achievement for them, need to get to croke park on Patrick's day and bring a first club all Ireland back to limerick, in fairness they look most experienced of the remaining teams, doesn't mean anything if they don't deliver in the day though,
will effect limericks league campaign aswell, good to see Michael Casey and Ronan lynch stepping up in defense, Casey definately can step up to corner back with Limerick, unfortunately won't really get a chance in this years league...0 -
Serious congratulations to a fine Nap side super second half performance and they blew the gunners away when they upped the intensity in the second half.If they're to win it out they'll have to beat the leinster champs then either sarsfields or is it cushendall?tough ask but they're capable of it.
Good point Mehapoy re M Casey and Limerick's league campaign not an ideal way to be preparing for what i hope will be him making the starting 15 could be a long year for a lot of this team0 -
I dont think it is exciting times based on club hurling alone, nor the 21s.
Limerick club hurling is skewed by 2 real superpowers eg kilmallock and na piarsaigh who have massive pics. The Well are the only team to put it up to them on paper. Other teams might come close here and there but in terms of quality players there is the top 3 clubs then everyone else is second fiddle by a jump...
Look at Cork City who have 10 or more decent senior clubs for Limericks one city club. The well are not limerick city
As for the 21s... Well 21s hurling is not even the same sport as senior hurling. Those lads will come thru but it will be 3 or 4 years before they can genuienly peaking...0 -
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I dont think it is exciting times based on club hurling alone, nor the 21s.
Limerick club hurling is skewed by 2 real superpowers eg kilmallock and na piarsaigh who have massive pics. The Well are the only team to put it up to them on paper. Other teams might come close here and there but in terms of quality players there is the top 3 clubs then everyone else is second fiddle by a jump...
Look at Cork City who have 10 or more decent senior clubs for Limericks one city club. The well are not limerick city
As for the 21s... Well 21s hurling is not even the same sport as senior hurling. Those lads will come thru but it will be 3 or 4 years before they can genuienly peaking...
Kind of agree re your points on the u21s we defo need more city clubs and I think we can name doon to make four good clubs again I,d like to see more from the city but there is good work being done in mungret and monaleen twill take time but you could have three senior teams from the city in the not too distant future plus we are far smaller than cork.by the way who are the ten cork city teams you mentioned?0 -
What way will the nap management handle the burn out factor over the next few weeks?do they keep training or take a break from it and give the players some time off.if I was in charge I,d imagine maybe it might work better if the players had a break for me that's December off with just a little stick work etc to keep them ticking over.
What's people's view on this?0 -
What way will the nap management handle the burn out factor over the next few weeks?do they keep training or take a break from it and give the players some time off.if I was in charge I,d imagine maybe it might work better if the players had a break for me that's December off with just a little stick work etc to keep them ticking over.
What's people's view on this?
Its hard to know because a few of the NAP lads like the pies a bit too much.;)0 -
Dempsey seems to have put on the weight dowling has lost:p
seriously id give them 3 weeks off and then build them back up again, most are in training since last november
Casey and english are a big boost to our full back line
Any of the u-21's strenghten our half back line
Midfield is easy, pick the best 2 from about 6
Up front is trickier, dowling is the only one who is sure of a start0 -
paddy no 11 wrote: »Dempsey seems to have put on the weight dowling has lost:p
seriously id give them 3 weeks off and then build them back up again, most are in training since last november
Casey and english are a big boost to our full back line
Any of the u-21's strenghten our half back line
Midfield is easy, pick the best 2 from about 6
Up front is trickier, dowling is the only one who is sure of a start
I can see 4 nap players starting for limerick next yr but prob only Dowling and probably K Downes are guaranteed the other 2 for me that would be worth a shout at this stage would be M casey and Alan dempsey maybe D Dempsey might be close but he'd be a sub for me.I think P Casey should be left alone for a yr with the other young possibilities including W o Donoghue and R Lynch develop further to see how they get on.
At this stage a full back line of M Casey,R mac,R English looks a possibility with maybe S Hickey moving to half back?Anyway i know its early for this kind of talk.0 -
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The problem with thr Dempsey's and m Casey getting on the first 15 is that they'll miss most if not all of the league so its hard to make the championship 15 when that happens, should be better when the all Ireland is finished in the same calendar year but until then its very disruptive for the county team to have a club team in the latter stages of the AI, the exception to that, as always, us Kilkenny but even they were effected in the league last year...I can see 4 nap players starting for limerick next yr but prob only Dowling and probably K Downes are guaranteed the other 2 for me that would be worth a shout at this stage would be M casey and Alan dempsey maybe D Dempsey might be close but he'd be a sub for me.I think P Casey should be left alone for a yr with the other young possibilities including W o Donoghue and R Lynch develop further to see how they get on.
At this stage a full back line of M Casey,R mac,R English looks a possibility with maybe S Hickey moving to half back?Anyway i know its early for this kind of talk.0 -
The problem with thr Dempsey's and m Casey getting on the first 15 is that they'll miss most if not all of the league so its hard to make the championship 15 when that happens, should be better when the all Ireland is finished in the same calendar year but until then its very disruptive for the county team to have a club team in the latter stages of the AI, the exception to that, as always, us Kilkenny but even they were effected in the league last year...
This.
There are going to be quite a few names missing for a lot of the league with the NaP boys out. There's a bit of talk at the moment that LK are already in heavy training and treating the league as a priority next year.
The defence is less affected, only really Casey suffering as I don't think Rónán Lynch would have the necessary bite in his game yet for a senior starting spot. This is no harm as the half-back line in particular needs a good bit of surgery. William O'Donoghue has been in brilliant form in midfield but will join the end of a long list of players competeing for midfield spots when he returns from NaP action. TJ doesn't seem to rate Alan Dempsey.
Up front Dowling, Downes, David Dempsey & Peter Casey would be contenders on form. There should be serious competition for places up front next year provided players are given a fair crack of the whip and we aren't riddled with injuries. Don't be surprised to see big names lose out.0 -
Twoman Fullbackline wrote: »This.
There are going to be quite a few names missing for a lot of the league with the NaP boys out. There's a bit of talk at the moment that LK are already in heavy training and treating the league as a priority next year.
The defence is less affected, only really Casey suffering as I don't think Rónán Lynch would have the necessary bite in his game yet for a senior starting spot. This is no harm as the half-back line in particular needs a good bit of surgery. William O'Donoghue has been in brilliant form in midfield but will join the end of a long list of players competeing for midfield spots when he returns from NaP action. TJ doesn't seem to rate Alan Dempsey.
Up front Dowling, Downes, David Dempsey & Peter Casey would be contenders on form. There should be serious competition for places up front next year provided players are given a fair crack of the whip and we aren't riddled with injuries. Don't be surprised to see big names lose out.
Mike Casey is going from strength to strength and could well be good enough for senior action this year but will be joining late. I think Hickey and Richie Mc will retain their spots and English will be ahead of Casey when he joins late. Wouldn't be surprised if he plays his way into contention though. Peter Casey is incredible but still in school,might be best to leave him for another year. Then again, if you're good enough you're old enough and he could be a great impact sub at the end of games. On balance I'd like to have him on the panel.
On Lynch, I think he's more of a contender for a wing forward spot on the limerick team this year. Similar to how Gleeson was introduced in Waterford. Could start, certainly would be a strong impact sub there. I think he would more likely have been wing rather than centre back for Na P this year but for injuries to Breen and Downes at various stages.
Alan Dempsey has an excellent pedigree as a corner back but has developed into the best club midfielder in Limerick. I've seen him outplay established limerick players in club games a few times now. LIT captain. No manager should overlook him. Seems like TJ will though. A really bad call IMO. O'Donoghue alongside him has developed into a really excellent player this year, again maybe too soon for him especially given the number of contenders here but one for the future.0 -
What age is O'Donoghue? He was u21 this year? Looked impressive against ballygunner although was behind A Dempsey in that game, the two doon lads will be ahead of the Nap guys IMO for starting positions this year...think D Dempsey could be a good impact sub for Limerick this year, well able to take a score and has the physical size for senior inter county...glasagusban wrote: »Mike Casey is going from strength to strength and could well be good enough for senior action this year but will be joining late. I think Hickey and Richie Mc will retain their spots and English will be ahead of Casey when he joins late. Wouldn't be surprised if he plays his way into contention though. Peter Casey is incredible but still in school,might be best to leave him for another year. Then again, if you're good enough you're old enough and he could be a great impact sub at the end of games. On balance I'd like to have him on the panel.
On Lynch, I think he's more of a contender for a wing forward spot on the limerick team this year. Similar to how Gleeson was introduced in Waterford. Could start, certainly would be a strong impact sub there. I think he would more likely have been wing rather than centre back for Na P this year but for injuries to Breen and Downes at various stages.
Alan Dempsey has an excellent pedigree as a corner back but has developed into the best club midfielder in Limerick. I've seen him outplay established limerick players in club games a few times now. LIT captain. No manager should overlook him. Seems like TJ will though. A really bad call IMO. O'Donoghue alongside him has developed into a really excellent player this year, again maybe too soon for him especially given the number of contenders here but one for the future.0 -
I know Browne has pleanty of followers but for me he seriously needs to increase his accuracy. Pat ryan and SOB both are far more accurate, id have one of those two starting as a left sided midfielder the other side is between browne and dempsey, dempsey was only 2 from 5 himself sunday but is normally better. Jimbob is next followed by POB and DOD in that order. Think WOD is 21 been excellent so far but give him another year, same with casey.0
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Good piece on Stephen lucey retiring here http://m.limerickleader.ie/sport/limerick-sport/stephen-lucey-reflects-on-his-17-year-limerick-career-1-7086419
Came in for a lot of unwarranted criticism I felt, gave his all at both football and hurling for limerick, was a better footballer I felt, such a pity that group of players never got a Munster SFC out of their efforts... Might be a future in management or coaching for him, definitely has enough experience to draw on0 -
Where did he get the time for it all, himself and lawlor in midfield were a force0
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30 appearances in both codes is some record, I doubt many can match it.0
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A great servant to limerick Gaa. More like him needed. Poor judgement maybe in programme profile in 2008 led alot of people to ridicule him but to me he gave his all and more considering his career in medicine. One of the last true dual players.
Possible future in coaching hopefully.0 -
glasagusban wrote: »Mike Casey is going from strength to strength and could well be good enough for senior action this year but will be joining late. I think Hickey and Richie Mc will retain their spots and English will be ahead of Casey when he joins late. Wouldn't be surprised if he plays his way into contention though. Peter Casey is incredible but still in school,might be best to leave him for another year. Then again, if you're good enough you're old enough and he could be a great impact sub at the end of games. On balance I'd like to have him on the panel.
On Lynch, I think he's more of a contender for a wing forward spot on the limerick team this year. Similar to how Gleeson was introduced in Waterford. Could start, certainly would be a strong impact sub there. I think he would more likely have been wing rather than centre back for Na P this year but for injuries to Breen and Downes at various stages.
Alan Dempsey has an excellent pedigree as a corner back but has developed into the best club midfielder in Limerick. I've seen him outplay established limerick players in club games a few times now. LIT captain. No manager should overlook him. Seems like TJ will though. A really bad call IMO. O'Donoghue alongside him has developed into a really excellent player this year, again maybe too soon for him especially given the number of contenders here but one for the future.
I hope tj doesn't, ignore dempseys great performances for nap he has surprised me how good he has been and he deserves a chance.regarding lynch I don,t see him making it this yr and for me he hasn't followed up earlier form when we all thought he was going to be a senior star,I hope he does like I think someone else here this time last yr I wouldn't, have picked d Byrnes out of a line now I,m thinking he,s my no 5,6 or 7 for next yr all these lads are so young lets give them time.0 -
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You have to be careful and not throw too many young lads into the senior team at once. Not so much because its rushing them but because it will unbalance the team. I would ease them in as subs over next year and then look to have them starting the year after. There are definitely 6 out of the U21 team that deserve a chance at some stage over the next championship.0
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You have to be careful and not throw too many young lads into the senior team at once. Not so much because its rushing them but because it will unbalance the team. I would ease them in as subs over next year and then look to have them starting the year after. There are definitely 6 out of the U21 team that deserve a chance at some stage over the next championship.
to be honest i think the opposite is needed , clare did the same thing in 2011 and 2012 had had 2 pretty much scratched years in the championship , picked up a few hidings in the process but the experience seriously helped for the 3rd year , in fact i would have liked to see tj do more of it this year especially after the munster championship defeat to tipp0 -
I feel some are getting slightly ahead of themselves with the U21's, a very good bunch of players without a doubt, but so too were the 2000-2002 teams, it's a fairly massive step up, patience will be required, particularly as TJ didn't have the foresight to introduce more of them to the panel for 2015.
There are 5 or 6 players who should have a year of inclusion on the senior panel behind them. Only Cian Lynch and Tom Morrissey got the chance. Those two are a good illustration of how things might go. Now and then you'll get a Cian Lynch who is sufficiently talented that he'll instantly slot in without too much fuss and quickly gain regular game time. But more often than not, a talented addition, such as Tom Morrissey, will need a bit more time to force himself into the picture.
As it stands, the only player I have confidence could come in and make an immediate impact is Diarmuid Byrnes. Excellent for the 21's but matched that with his club, he was key in Patrickswell's return to the county final. I'd be hopeful for the likes of English, O'Connell, R.Lynch, Casey and maybe Hegarty but I'd see them more as squad players in 2016 gaining experience before hopefully pushing on for 2017.
TJ is the luckiest Limerick man alive, 2015 was simply awful. A cycle of riding their luck before being found out. In the league, rode our luck against Waterford and Wexford, ran out of luck and found out by Offaly, completely found out by Dublin in a terrible performance in the quarter final at an empty Croke Park in the QF. In Munster, rode our luck v Clare before being ruthlessly found out by Tipp. Qualifiers; rode our luck v Westmeath, found out by a very average Dublin side in Thurles.
Not a single convincing performance in 10 games. In the last 20 years managers have walked for less, and plenty more have been sacked for similar or less. Beary and Lyons were the fall guys, bit unfair on them, but no more excuses for TJ now, the men on board now are purely of his own choosing (although he was turned down by his first choice(s?)), none of this management team is inherited.
Perhaps that's why Dave Clarke wasn't culled, my theory there is that as part of the review TJ proposed that he give it one more go with his own men, Clarke was already his appointment. The board, looking for any excuse not to sack another manager and yet again go through the painstaking process of searching and appointing a new management team accepted this proposal. Whether one likes it or not, we're stuck with this arrangement for another year, so we're best off getting behind it. Give TJ one more chance regardless of whether or not one feels it is deserved.
The nature of the performance in the 2014 semi final against Kilkenny bought him a lot of goodwill, and his reappointment was widely accepted. But the goodwill is gone now, TJ will come under unprecedented scrutiny in 2016, particularly given the performance of the under 21 management team, note; 'management team'. Kiely has set the bar very high for TJ, he has assembled the right men around him and he delegates accordingly, plus he is very quick to credit his men for their work, he is a man who recognises his own strengths and weaknesses, and recruits accordingly. TJ? Let's wait and see, but unless he's a complete fool, he'll be fully aware that he needs to deliver, and quickly. Many didn't heed the warning signs in the league last year, how often did we hear the likes of "It's only the league". "We're a championship team". "We'll peak when it matters". "Targeting the league will only hurt our championship prospects".
Worryingly, such statements were not just restricted to some of our fans, some of the players even rattled off similar statements. The fans won't be so quick to brush off such lacklustre performances in the league next year. Things could get very heated if we don't hit the ground running in the league next year. And there's absolutely no harm in that. A handful of the players need to respond to that pressure, some of these guys went through the motions last year, backs are to the wall now, the fans are frustrated, and there's an upcoming tide of talented players now snapping at their heels, it's sink or swim time for a lot of these guys. Particularly for TJ.
2016? Bring it on.0 -
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Hurling Rankings wrote: »This post has been deleted.
Personally, there's a small bit of optimism growing, in the sense that the changes to the backroom team have probably strengthened the management overall, and there will almost certainly be a freshening up of the squad going into next year. A number of U21s that didn't make it last year will be a year older and stronger, and there is also the prospect of players like Tom Ryan & Alan Dempsey making a return to the fold for 2016.
If we achieve promotion with the NaP players missing it will be a great achievement; it is within our reach and it would put us in fine fettle with the NaP players returning as spring wears on, and competition intensifying for starting positions. Allied to that, a lot of counties will be starting off 2016 on the back foot: Tipp have had a number of retirements and a change of management, Cork had a woeful 2015, Clare a worse one, Galway currently going through another winter of discontent.
Of course I'm saying all this on the 1st of December...it'll be a while yet before we'll see how TJ's third year is shaping up.0 -
David Breen has effectively retired due to work commitments. He can hold his head high, although not a natural forward he did a job for us up there, a respectable enough scoring rate but more importantly he made himself an awkward opponent, won plenty of ball, and if he got ball to hand he wasn't ever afraid to run straight for goal. Also worth noting that he stuck at it in 2010 when Justin McCarthy's top notch man management left us shorn of 24 players. Which will in a moment bring me back to Stephen Lucey. Justin McCarthy turned two separate panels of players completely against him in a 16 month period. Yet despite that, many within our county completely turned on the players, some of the stuff said about them online and elsewhere was absolutely shocking. And Lucey in particular came in for some shocking abuse. Some even insinuated that he was the ringleader of the revolt against poor old Justin. Many used an obvious joke comment about Bacardi against him.
Lucey was a character, but players looked up to him. He was a leader, but unfortunately he was frequently tarnished with the perception that the 2000-02 under 21 teams were happy to live off that success and were all too fond of the social side and going on the beer. There were a few, but they didn't last long on the panel, they were quickly enough weeded out, but unfortunately mud sticks, and those who remained always had that cloud unfairly hanging over them. To put it quite simply, there is no way in hell Stephen Lucey would have lasted 16 seasons as an inter county player if he didn't work his backside off. His character perhaps rubbed some up the wrong way but I would defend to the bitter end his contribution to this county and his dedication.
Unlike Breen, he doesn't even retire with so much as a Munster championship medal to his name, which is a crying shame, arguably more so in terms of his time with the football team because they came agonisingly close on a couple of occasions. That's one of the sad things about being a Limerick fan, more often than not the farewell to a long serving is accompanied by a touch of regret that the players never really fulfilled their ambitions. But in the case of both Lucey and Breen they can leave with their heads held high. The very best of luck to them both.0 -
Your posts are well worth reading, I'll say that!0
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mickmackey1 wrote: »Your posts are well worth reading, I'll say that!
They won't all be, believe me!!
Stephen Walsh has retired just today. Another man who clocked up a respectable tally of dual appearances for the county. Best of luck to him too, I'd say a bit more but I've already typed up two essays here in the last few days! Walsh was a solid performer, a dependable corner back, more disciplined in a positional sense than Condon and Hickey who are both fond of going forward, consequently he brought balance to the full back line.
Two experienced players departed, perhaps a few more to go in the next two months? Gaps are opening up for the under 21's to move in. I'd wonder about the likes of Allis and King who have been around a long time without breaking through. Begley and Tom O'Brien are two others who don't look like they will be starters any time soon. You'd have to wonder will O'Grady return next year? A good man to have around for sure but he will be 36 in 2016.
Fringe players under pressure but Walsh and Breen were regular starters in 2015. Should be changes aplenty to the first team for 2016, genuinely difficult to predict a starting team for next years championship.0 -
I think a lot of people aren't optimistic about 2016 for a number of reasons, and after 2015, it's hard to blame them. Winning the Waterford Crystal, I thought we might bring some form into the league... and we drew with a good Waterford team without playing well. But the loss to Offaly and another disappointing quarter-final performance and defeat meant it was an awful campaign. After beating Clare, you thought we might kick on as in 2014 and have a good Championship despite the poor start but we just never got going. We beat a poor Clare side... and we somehow contrived to lose to a poor Dublin side too. I still don't know how we managed to throw that one away.
Looking forward to 2016, we do have talented young players to turn to- yet how many of them are ready/how many will be used. I think you could make an individual case for nearly all of the starting team, but obviously, they won't all be included- and even those that are included, how many will start? Colin Ryan is out for the year too, a fine hurler, and I'd have had him as one of the favourites to start. Peter Casey is unlikely to play while his Leaving Cert is on, and his brother's chances will be hurt by Na Piarsaigh's run.
But with David Breen & Stephen Walsh gone, and Dodge possibly to follow, there are vacancies. Breen & Walsh were both players who came in for criticism but neither are old really and both were starters. And deservedly too, I think, they were better than players who were there on the panel too. Both will be losses to the team as a result.
Personnel is one thing- some fine players under-performed last year though. McCarthy had a few nightmares, Hickey had a disaster of a year, Hannon never really got going, Jim-Bob & Browne weren't on a par with 2014 but none of them really were. I'm one of those that believe we do have the players within the county... but our use of the ball and intensity levels were way way off where they needed to be at.
You'd hope with Joe O'Connor there that the latter, at least, will improve. He's proven in that regard. I don't know what the situation was last year, but if players aren't up to the required fitness levels/putting in top work rate on the pitch, then they have to be cut. No matter who they are. No Kilkenny player gets by on that count and Limerick shouldn't be any different. The work rate of our U-21 team was sensational, and in 2014, our senior panel was the same. The whole team looked sluggish in 2015.
As for tactics, usage of the ball, etc... I don't know. Corner-forwards in Limerick have no chance really in recent years. Feeding the likes of Mulcachy & Tobin with long, straight, high balls is just stupid. Fast, diagonal ball in front of them is what they need... Mulcahy will skin most corner-backs if he gets good possession. The fact Pa Begley was even on the panel as a full-forward was a bit disconcerting... it's always nice to have the option but I'd rather have Tom Morrissey or Kevin O'Brien on the edge of the square than Begley. We'll see what Dinny Cahill brings to the table, but I would be slightly worried. Tbh I do have low expectations and I would settle for bringing our intensity levels back to what they were in 2014 and build from there. A half-back line who are strong in the air has to be a priority too.
Cathal King is having a great year for Na Piarsaigh but where do you play him for the county? I think he might just be a bit short of that level. TJ was playing Conor Allis in the half-back line last year and he's not an intercounty wing-back by any stretch of the imagination. There are a few there whose places must be under threat from the 21s... even someone like David Reidy. A good player, but didn't seem to be trusted by the management.
I'd like to see Michael Casey, Richie English, Diarmuid Byrnes, Pat Ryan, Darragh O'Donovan, Alan Dempsey and Barry Nash in and around the squad anyway. Obviously Cian Lynch & Tom Morrissey too. And I think that a good few of the others could be options too- maybe Dave Dempsey, Barry O'Connell, Kevin O'Brien, Ronan Lynch.
If I was in charge, I'd play a very similar setup to the U-21s. I wouldn't play a sweeper, but I'd have a deep-lying centre-back and a 3rd midfielder, with a 2-man inside line. Cian Lynch would be my 3rd midfielder for the seniors too, I think he's the man with the creative touch to be given the free role, I think sticking him in at corner-forward is a waste when we have other options there. Ball-winners in both the half-forward & half-back line are necessary and I've come around to thinking that Dowling should be moved back out to the 40, with maybe Mulcahy & Downes inside.0 -
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Normally wouldnt be on for putting fellas in too early or wholesale changes but we need about 4 new starters
corner back
half back
midfield
half forward
Plus some of the likely new starters are 21 or over which isnt young these days
Alan dempsey, Byrnes, pat ryan, michael casey. One of morrissey/Nash will have to come in at half forward though.0
This discussion has been closed.
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