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The Six Nations General Banter Thread. *Read Mod Warning. Post no.5*

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    #722
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    spear thrower wrote: »
    Is Isaac Boss really playing that well that a lot of you would start him on Saturday?(havent seen much of him lately)

    He was useless a couple of years ago and i was expecting him to drop off the radar but fair play to him for digging deep and pushing for a starting place in a World Class team..

    He's playing fine but in comparison to the other 3 he's playing really well.

    Should be on the bench at least. The only problem I have with him is that he has a very similar game to TOL and Reddan(to a lesser extent). Personally I like the sub 9 to offer something different to the guy on the pitch but Stringer is so off form he cant be in the 22.


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    #723
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    spear thrower wrote: »
    Is Isaac Boss really playing that well that a lot of you would start him on Saturday?(havent seen much of him lately)

    He was useless a couple of years ago and i was expecting him to drop off the radar but fair play to him for digging deep and pushing for a starting place in a World Class team..

    Ehm...

    Tomás O'Leary is our best scrum-half. Then Reddan. (In terms of ability this is.)

    But Boss is playing a damn sight better than both.


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    #724
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    Ehm...

    Tomás O'Leary is our best scrum-half. Then Reddan. (In terms of ability this is.)

    But Boss is playing a damn sight better than both.

    If all three were playing to their absolute best I'd still pick Boss ahead of Reddan. They're similar players, but Boss seems to be a much better reader of the game and has infinitely better decision making ability (because Reddan has none). If TOL gets back to his pre-Lions form though I still think he's the best bet. Boss is the form choice at the moment though.


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    #725
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    If all three were playing to their absolute best I'd still pick Boss ahead of Reddan. They're similar players, but Boss seems to be a much better reader of the game and has infinitely better decision making ability (because Reddan has none). If TOL gets back to his pre-Lions form though I still think he's the best bet. Boss is the form choice at the moment though.

    Personally, and I'll quite happily accept that this opinion is retarded, I think Eoin Reddan's the most talented Irish scrum-half, but I think O'Leary's size and speed make him the most effective. Again assuming full fitness and top form.

    I think O'Leary is the worst scrum-half of the three, but the most effective. He's a lot like a worse Mike Phillips really. Which is hardly shameful.


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    #726
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    Personally, and I'll quite happily accept that this opinion is retarded, I think Eoin Reddan's the most talented Irish scrum-half, but I think O'Leary's size and speed make him the most effective. Again assuming full fitness and top form.

    I think O'Leary is the worst scrum-half of the three, but the most effective. He's a lot like a worse Mike Phillips really. Which is hardly shameful.

    My view of Reddan is that he is quite talented in terms of passing and physicality but is ultimately an idiot. So if we take that out of the equation then yes, he would in fact be the best scrum-half in Ireland. He's probably the best on the front foot when he's given quick ball and doesn't have time to think about what he's doing, but he infuriates the crap out of me playing for Leinster when he dithers about at ruck time and then still takes the wrong option.

    TOL is the worst of the three in terms of pure passing, but he's a pretty good footballer, so I suppose it depends on what you're looking for. He is essentially a slightly worse phillips, but it worked for Ireland last year, especially with ROG at 10. A better passing 9 might be more of an option with Sexton at 10.


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    #727
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    Personally, and I'll quite happily accept that this opinion is retarded, I think Eoin Reddan's the most talented Irish scrum-half, but I think O'Leary's size and speed make him the most effective. Again assuming full fitness and top form.

    I think O'Leary is the worst scrum-half of the three, but the most effective. He's a lot like a worse Mike Phillips really. Which is hardly shameful.

    I'd mostly agree with you but its Reddans ridiculous hot/cold streaks and increasingly frequent brain farts that keep us from seeing the best of him.


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    #728
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    My view of Reddan is that he is quite talented in terms of passing and physicality but is ultimately an idiot. So if we take that out of the equation then yes, he would in fact be the best scrum-half in Ireland. He's probably the best on the front foot when he's given quick ball and doesn't have time to think about what he's doing, but he infuriates the crap out of me playing for Leinster when he dithers about at ruck time and then still takes the wrong option.

    TOL is the worst of the three in terms of pure passing, but he's a pretty good footballer, so I suppose it depends on what you're looking for. He is essentially a slightly worse phillips, but it worked for Ireland last year, especially with ROG at 10. A better passing 9 might be more of an option with Sexton at 10.
    I feel really bad for the slightly-worse Phillips moniker. Phillips is to 9 what BOD is to 13 really. I'd rate him higher than Du Preez, again, not necessarily in terms of raw ability, but just effectiveness.
    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    I'd mostly agree with you but its Reddans ridiculous hot/cold streaks and increasingly frequent brain farts that keep us from seeing the best of him.

    He's the Nani v Ronaldo comparison. All the same skills as your ideal scrum-half, just without the consistency and the decision-making skills to use the talent to its full effect.


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    #729
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    The thing is it is great we have the depth in the scrum half position throw in stringer and you have 4 scrum halves alot of countries would love to have availabe to them. Our bigger problem is our lack of depth below hayes. Noone has put their hand up to replace him and until court and ross get decent game time we wont know if they can be a viable alternative to the bull.


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    #730
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    I feel really bad for the slightly-worse Phillips moniker. Phillips is to 9 what BOD is to 13 really. I'd rate him higher than Du Preez, again, not necessarily in terms of raw ability, but just effectiveness.


    He's the Nani v Ronaldo comparison. All the same skills as your ideal scrum-half, just without the consistency and the decision-making skills to use the talent to its full effect.

    Thats an excellent comparison


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    #731
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    The thing is it is great we have the depth in the scrum half position throw in stringer and you have 4 scrum halves alot of countries would love to have availabe to them. Our bigger problem is our lack of depth below hayes. Noone has put their hand up to replace him and until court and ross get decent game time we wont know if they can be a viable alternative to the bull.

    Stringer is no longer a viable option at scrum-half and there is no country I can think of bar Italy would want him starting for them. He was a great servant to Ireland but that time is gone. We have good depth at scrum-half, but none of them are amazingly good at the moment which is a problem.

    Hayes is past it. I wish that wasn't true but it's getting clearer by the week. Ross can anchor a scrum and on that basis alone should be getting time at TH. You are right that it is Ireland's biggest problem though.


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    #732
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Sorry i didnt mean stringer to start and i dont think any of our scrum halves would walk onto any international teams what i meant was alot of countries would love to have the depth we have. Prop is a "huge" problem. Even if you look at horan, will he make the next wc? How bad is that mysterious heart problem? Not much below cian healy as back up. The thing is we have known for years healy was the only prospect we had coming up. Court is an oz and ross is a lucky find. Most people expected buckly to take over from hayes but he missed out on vital game time in his early to mid 20s which crippled his development. The irfu only have themselves to blame for this mess.


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    #733
    BoarHunter
    Registered Users Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭BoarHunter


    an update on the french list : In addition to Barcella, traille and Mermoz who were already out before the list now Millochlusky and Chabal are out injured. it is on Top of Dupuy's ban

    the list is starting to be long for the next 2 games away to Scotland and home to Ireland.


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    #734
    TheBodFather
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭TheBodFather


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    Prop is a "huge" problem. Even if you look at horan, will he make the next wc? How bad is that mysterious heart problem? Not much below cian healy as back up. The thing is we have known for years healy was the only prospect we had coming up. Court is an oz and ross is a lucky find. Most people expected buckly to take over from hayes but he missed out on vital game time in his early to mid 20s which crippled his development. The irfu only have themselves to blame for this mess.

    I don't think prop is as big a problem as people make out. If Horan retired tomorrow I wouldn't even blink with the likes of Healy and Court behind him. If Hayes retired I would be perfect happy with Ross coming in and reckon Court could also do a job at tighthead. In a few years a front row of
    Healy-Cronin-Court would be very exciting. Don't think you'd find a more physical and mobile front row anywhere else in the world.


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    #735
    BoarHunter
    Registered Users Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭BoarHunter


    TheBodFather wrote: »
    I don't think prop is as big a problem as people make out. If Horan retired tomorrow I wouldn't even blink with the likes of Healy and Court behind him. If Hayes retired I would be perfect happy with Ross coming in and reckon Court could also do a job at tighthead. In a few years a front row of
    Healy-Cronin-Court would be very exciting. Don't think you'd find a more physical and mobile front row anywhere else in the world.

    And who would you put on the bench so ? cos your front row ain't gonna make 80 minutes for an international game i suppose ?


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    #736
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    TheBodFather wrote: »
    I don't think prop is as big a problem as people make out. If Horan retired tomorrow I wouldn't even blink with the likes of Healy and Court behind him. If Hayes retired I would be perfect happy with Ross coming in and reckon Court could also do a job at tighthead. In a few years a front row of
    Healy-Cronin-Court would be very exciting. Don't think you'd find a more physical and mobile front row anywhere else in the world.

    but we need to give them good quality game time. We cant just throw them in when the others retire. Healy is getting game time but what about cronin and ross and court all three have to appear in at least four games this 6 nations but you and i know this wont happen! Cronin will be lucky to see the team bus not to mind the bench as will ross!


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    #737
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    Sorry i didnt mean stringer to start and i dont think any of our scrum halves would walk onto any international teams what i meant was alot of countries would love to have the depth we have. Prop is a "huge" problem. Even if you look at horan, will he make the next wc? How bad is that mysterious heart problem? Not much below cian healy as back up. The thing is we have known for years healy was the only prospect we had coming up. Court is an oz and ross is a lucky find. Most people expected buckly to take over from hayes but he missed out on vital game time in his early to mid 20s which crippled his development. The irfu only have themselves to blame for this mess.

    Horan is a long way from finished and was starting to become a much better scrummaging prop last season. Even without him Ireland still have Healy and Court.

    Tighthead is obviously a problem. The IRFU aren't to blame for Buckley - he's been given more opportunities then he ever should have been. Ross is a capable if not spectacular replacement though. He'll improve the scrum over Hayes at least. We just have to hope that someone comes along in the next couple years to stake a real claim for the jersey.


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    #738
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    but we need to give them good quality game time. We cant just throw them in when the others retire. Healy is getting game time but what about cronin and ross and court all three have to appear in at least four games this 6 nations but you and i know this wont happen! Cronin will be lucky to see the team bus not to mind the bench as will ross!

    Best is young enough, so hooker isn't a major problem. Cronin is behind Flannery and Best, it's not that worrying he's not getting to play considering those ahead of him. He'll almost certainly be involved in the game against Italy in some aspect as there is no way Best and Flannery will be in the 22. Court is getting plenty of gametime for Ulster and will probably start at least one game I imagine. He's a prefect bench option though. Ross definitely needs some game-time though.


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    #739
    Jbone07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭Jbone07


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    If all three were playing to their absolute best I'd still pick Boss ahead of Reddan. They're similar players, but Boss seems to be a much better reader of the game and has infinitely better decision making ability (because Reddan has none). If TOL gets back to his pre-Lions form though I still think he's the best bet. Boss is the form choice at the moment though.


    I think the SH position should go to O' Leary, although I really have an issue with his place kicks off the back of the scrum. Why isnt he tossing it back to Sexton/OGara?


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    #740
    TheBodFather
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭TheBodFather


    BoarHunter wrote: »
    And who would you put on the bench so ? cos your front row ain't gonna make 80 minutes for an international game i suppose ?

    Mike Ross. Back up for Hooker could be Best or Cronin. Start one and have the other as back up.


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    #741
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,171 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Horan is a long way from finished and was starting to become a much better scrummaging prop last season. Even without him Ireland still have Healy and Court.

    Tighthead is obviously a problem. The IRFU aren't to blame for Buckley - he's been given more opportunities then he ever should have been. Ross is a capable if not spectacular replacement though. He'll improve the scrum over Hayes at least. We just have to hope that someone comes along in the next couple years to stake a real claim for the jersey.

    A few years will be too late.. after the wc alot of the current team will retire and irish rugby will prob take a few steps backwards.


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    #742
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Jbone07 wrote: »
    Why isnt he tossing it back to Sexton/OGara?

    I imagine he is doing what he is told to...otherwise he wouldn't stay around long


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    #743
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    twinytwo wrote: »
    A few years will be too late.. after the wc alot of the current team will retire and irish rugby will prob take a few steps backwards.

    I dont think so

    obviously we are gonna have to be really lucky for someone to show up on the scene who would come anywhere near replacing BOD

    but other than that, life goes on, I still see plenty of potential in the young players around today


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    #744
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,171 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Riskymove wrote: »
    I dont think so

    obviously we are gonna have to be really lucky for someone to show up on the scene who would come anywhere near replacing BOD

    but other than that, life goes on, I still see plenty of potential in the young players around today

    ya but if you think about the front 5 wally stringer o gara drico and darcy murphy horgan and the list goes on. Thats alot of players to try and replace in the next year or so a lot of experience is gone as are most of the natural leaders in the team.


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    #745
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    twinytwo wrote: »
    ya but if you think about the front 5 wally stringer o gara drico and darcy murphy horgan and the list goes on. Thats alot of players to try and replace in the next year or so a lot of experience is gone as are most of the natural leaders in the team.

    Several of those players have been long replaced, others will be around for a lot longer than another year.


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    #746
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/sixnation/news/2199422.htm

    France's second row forward Sebastien Chabal has been ruled out of their Six Nations opener against Scotland in Edinburgh next weekend, the team announced on Monday.


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    #747
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    The thing is it is great we have the depth in the scrum half position throw in stringer and you have 4 scrum halves alot of countries would love to have availabe to them. Our bigger problem is our lack of depth below hayes. Noone has put their hand up to replace him and until court and ross get decent game time we wont know if they can be a viable alternative to the bull.

    We do have depth at scrumhalf but just because we have 4 doesn't mean we have 4 good ones. O'Leary and Boss aren't bad but I don't think they'd make the 22 of any other top nation bar Italy. Reddan isn't international standard and Stringer hasn't had a run of good games in ages.


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    #748
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Buckley, Stringer, Horan all named in the 'A' squad for the weekend.
    IRELAND WOLFHOUNDS Squad (v Scotland 'A', 'A' International Match, Ravenhill, Friday, February 5, kick-off 7.30pm):

    Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)
    Nigel Brady (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
    Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
    Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster)
    Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
    Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster)
    Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
    Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
    Ian Humphreys (Ballymena/Ulster)
    Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
    Ian Keatley (Galwegians/Connacht)
    Keith Matthews (Buccaneers/Connacht)
    Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
    Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers)
    Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster)
    Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
    Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
    Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)


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    #749
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    Court and O'Brien for the bench spot so?

    I notice there's only one hooker named. Does this mean one on Flannery/Best/Cronin will drop down depending on fitness?


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    #750
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    sock puppet wrote: »
    Court and O'Brien for the bench spot so?

    I notice there's only one hooker named. Does this mean one on Flannery/Best/Cronin will drop down depending on fitness?

    I should have read the article, the squad above is a hooker and backrow light, to be finalised tomorrow. I think that must mean there's a fitness concern among Heaslip/Ferris/Wallace.


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    #751
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    danthefan wrote: »
    I should have read the article, the squad above is a hooker and backrow light, to be finalised tomorrow. I think that must mean there's a fitness concern among Heaslip/Ferris/Wallace.

    Ferris was injured against Bath wasn't he?


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