Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip

Zoney wrote: »

In one respect the timing of the reopened service is particularly good - it looks like with the recently planned joint programmes between University of Limerick and NUI Galway, there will be quite a number of University staff/visitors making use of the service (indeed some are already). It certainly makes transport less of a hassle for this collaboration.

oh thats great news a bunch of academics with time on their hands to sit on the train for 2 hours and claim expenses (guess who pays them) whilst they stroke their beards and read Voltaire and drink decaffinated coffee. Bloody marvelous that - what a way to plan infrastructure!

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

no-brainer isnt it!

I could be wrong but OAP passes arent accepted by citylink...maybe the train could cost ordinary passengers a fiver if IE didnt have to accept them...looks to me as if they are subsiding the OAPS... as I say i could be wrong....

social welfare passes are accepted on all citylink services except the shannon airport service

Victor

Judgement Day wrote: »

Am I missing something here? How did the locals in Midleton and Carrigtwohill pay directly for the reopening of the line to Midleton - any more than any other taxpayer?

Because there has been planning in place for this since 1978. People have been told that they are to live in certain areas and not to live in the wilds of nowhere. Property along the alignment will have sold at a premium and development contributions made.

No that this has stopped a lot of semi-rural development on the other side of the harbour.

DWCommuter

Victor wrote: »

Because there has been planning in place for this since 1978. People have been told that they are to live in certain areas and not to live in the wilds of nowhere. Property along the alignment will have sold at a premium and development contributions made.

No that this has stopped a lot of semi-rural development on the other side of the harbour.

My god you can be so articulate and sensible when you try. A near perfect answer. Gold star. Keep it up and you'll pass your end of year exam.

How do you feel now JD?:D

Judgement Day

DWCommuter wrote: »

My god you can be so articulate and sensible when you try. A near perfect answer. Gold star. Keep it up and you'll pass your end of year exam.

How do you feel now JD?:D

Lost for words!!:D

westtip

WOT recently posted the following quote from Martin Mansergh on their website:

http://www.westontrack.com/news_west_on_track.htm

I am very pleased to be here at the Galway East/Galway West Fianna Fáil Constituency Conference. Of all the gateways designated in the National Spatial Strategy, none fulfils its function better than Galway in the Western region, a neighbour of my county across the bridge at Portumna, even if not of my constituency. Last summer, I visited Victoria Lock in the company of the IFA, and had the satisfaction for once in my life of seeing the Northernmost tip of my county, a verdant grazing meadow beside the River Brosna, and of looking out on the island in the river Shannon that marks the meeting point of the three counties Offaly, Galway and Tipperary, and three provinces.

I will first talk about transport. I came here this morning and will be returning this afternoon by the Western Rail corridor, from Limerick Junction, two miles outside Tipperary town, and 15 minutes from home on the farm. Part of Fr. Michéal McGreal's vision was to link up West and North-West with the South-East. Personally, I am delighted to be able to travel by train from outside Tipperary town not just to Limerick and Ennis, but to Galway, where the station right in the city centre on Eyre Square is due for major redevelopment. A great deal of vision and determination by the promoters of the Western Rail Corridor was required over a period to overcome the natural resistance from the Department of Finance, not to mention some economists, who seem to think that public transport policy can be reduced to private buses, and who don't seem to think that passenger consumer choice is such a good idea, when the choice is between rail and road.

Events of the last couple of weeks have shown the vital importance of having alternative transport systems. We have been warned many times about the possibility of future energy shortages and high oil prices, but, independent of that, it is never going to be easy to access or exit quickly and conveniently city centres at peak times by private car. I know there is a determination to make the Western Rail Corridor a success, so that there is every incentive to move on the phase 2 connecting up to Tuam and Claremorris. There have also of course been great improvements in the quality and frequency of the Dublin-Galway rail service. We are also fortunate, again part of the Fianna Fáil vision, to have the West coast regional airports from Derry and Donegal to Sligo to Knock, to Galway, Shannon and Farranfore, providing added connectivity both to the capital and other airports abroad. The number of mainland regional airports is one of the differences between Ireland and Scotland, countries of roughly the same size and population. Communications are absolutely vital to us as an island country with no tunnel to either the continent or Great Britain.

However they did not give this part of his speech on the website!

At the end of this year, the radial motorway network will be complete, as the M4/M6 Dublin to Galway road already is. Considerable priority is also being given to the Atlantic Corridor, with most progress being made on the Limerick to Galway section. When complete, it will connect Donegal, Sligo, Mayo, Galway, Limerick, Cork, Tipperary and Waterford, with an important crossbar section on the N24 between Limerick and Waterford, to begin with the Tipperary by-pass. Obviously, there is still important work to be done in identifying the complete route of the outer Galway by-pass, so that it is as easy and quick to traverse the outskirts of Galway city, as it is now in the case of Cork.

http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/address-by-minister-martin-mansergh-td-at-the-galway-east-galway-west-confe/

Whilst Martin Mansergh was giving a "feel good" speech to the party faithfull, interesting that he only referred to the extension to Claremorris and focussed on the Atlantic Road Corridor when talking about the entire West coast connectivity.

Selective quoting is a dangerous game to get into. WOT do you think? Me thinks the quote on your website is once again an example of selective good news - ie only report the upbeat story about WRC but avoid the reality of life, that the main priority remains the Atlantic Road Corridor....

L1011

westtip wrote: »

oh thats great news a bunch of academics with time on their hands to sit on the train for 2 hours and claim expenses (guess who pays them) whilst they stroke their beards and read Voltaire and drink decaffinated coffee. Bloody marvelous that - what a way to plan infrastructure!

The catering services on Irish Rail don't sell decaf surely?

DWCommuter

westtip wrote: »

WOT recently posted the following quote from Martin Mansergh on their website:

http://www.westontrack.com/news_west_on_track.htm



However they did not give this part of his speech on the website!



http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/address-by-minister-martin-mansergh-td-at-the-galway-east-galway-west-confe/

Whilst Martin Mansergh was giving a "feel good" speech to the party faithfull, interesting that he only referred to the extension to Claremorris and focussed on the Atlantic Road Corridor when talking about the entire West coast connectivity.

Selective quoting is a dangerous game to get into. WOT do you think? Me thinks the quote on your website is once again an example of selective good news - ie only report the upbeat story about WRC but avoid the reality of life, that the main priority remains the Atlantic Road Corridor....

What about Claremorris to Colooney?:D Have a close look at this aerial shot of the WRC as it approaches Colooney. Check out the many driveways to houses that have been built over this precious line.

Just thought I'd throw it back into the pot!;)

WRC driveways.jpg

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

What about Claremorris to Colooney?:D Have a close look at this aerial shot of the WRC as it approaches Colooney. Check out the many driveways to houses that have been built over this precious line.

Just thought I'd throw it back into the pot!;)

WRC driveways.jpg

Yes Derek nice one, I notice there are three road crossings of the line just in the space of that photo (about a mile), as you mention even more have been built over the past 30 years, the McCann report highlighted the fact that there are 290 crossings in the 47 miles between Claremorris and Collooney (yes repeat that figure over and over again 290 crossings in about 50 miles = just under 6 crossings per mile of track) I don't know perhaps you could confirm are there speed limits for trains over such crossings - then with stops at probably five stations betwixt the two points (Kiltimagh, Swinford, Charlestown, Tubercurry and possibly Coolaney)in the final link of WRC we could be looking at land speed records for the slowest train service in the world, as the crow flies its about 35 miles, I think if we ever get at this stage of lunacy we will be looking at 2 to 2.5 hours for this one stretch of the line and a journey time from say Sligo to Galway of around 4 hours - and Sligo Limerick 6 to 6.5 hours. Wow that's progress on the nineteenth century - mind, you will be able to buy your ticket if you have the change, a swipe card and valid identification from an automated ticketing machine, so just think how much will be saved on automated unmanned stations. Well yes just look WOT value the northern WRC will deliver.

You see the daftness of it all is I really don't think people realise this out there in the outbacks of the wesht, A fight is going on in their good names (the people of the wesht) for what will be an embarrassment we would all have to live with.

A rather cruder map of the northern greenway:

http://www.communitywalk.com/collooney/sligo/map/511890

westtip

MYOB wrote: »

The catering services on Irish Rail don't sell decaf surely?

Probably right - the bearded gentlemen will probably bring a flask and cheese butty (or pot of houmos and pitta bread) with them in any event - so they won't even make a contribution in that respect.

Zoney

Westtip,

Your attitude towards a very sensible pooling of resources between the two Universities is completely out of order and if I may say so in strong terms, it is quite an ignorant position. Surely you are aware that despite lip-service to the knowledge economy in many respects by this government (e.g. school education, broadband infrastructure, electricity regulation), in the case of third level research, serious and significant undertakings are attracting international collaboration on technology and science projects. It is not a subject for cheap jokes just because you are so ardently in opposition to an intercity and commuter railway service between the 3rd and 4th largest cities in the state as well as one of the largest towns.

I also don't think that demands for WRC to Sligo (or beyond!!!) are an excuse to do anything other than seek improvement of the admittedly rudimentary service now in place along Limerick-Ennis-Athenry-Galway (e.g. passing points/sections, Oranmore station, Galway-Athenry signalling/track). Even if you were against the paltry investment in reopening Ennis-Athenry, now that it is open, surely any lobbying should be in the context of making best use of the investment?

westtip

Zoney wrote: »

Westtip,

Your attitude towards a very sensible pooling of resources between the two Universities is completely out of order and if I may say so in strong terms, it is quite an ignorant position. Surely you are aware that despite lip-service to the knowledge economy in many respects by this government (e.g. school education, broadband infrastructure, electricity regulation), in the case of third level research, serious and significant undertakings are attracting international collaboration on technology and science projects. It is not a subject for cheap jokes just because you are so ardently in opposition to an intercity and commuter railway service between the 3rd and 4th largest cities in the state as well as one of the largest towns.

I also don't think that demands for WRC to Sligo (or beyond!!!) are an excuse to do anything other than seek improvement of the admittedly rudimentary service now in place along Limerick-Ennis-Athenry-Galway (e.g. passing points/sections, Oranmore station, Galway-Athenry signalling/track). Even if you were against the paltry investment in reopening Ennis-Athenry, now that it is open, surely any lobbying should be in the context of making best use of the investment?

I don't think I said I was against any joint co-operations between the two universities, and I hope it all goes well for ye. I don't think a bunch of academics going up and down the line justifies the line if you really want to know what I think and I can see your frustrations about a crap service being in place now it is open. I don't think the investment was paltry but do think the investment would have been better spent on the Limerick Dublin line or Galway - Dublin line, so that rail could compete with the inter-urban motorways - I don't think the size of Galway or Limerick justifies an intercity line between two "cities" Our provincial cities are not that big and we have to be realistic. I don't think you have an intercity service - you have a fudge - and the remainder of the project will be even worse if ever implemented. I am not having a cheap joke about academics just a bit of a laugh - get over it

Transportuser09

Zoney wrote: »

Even if you were against the paltry investment in reopening Ennis-Athenry, now that it is open, surely any lobbying should be in the context of making best use of the investment?

+ 1.

westtip

Zoney wrote: »

Westtip,

Even if you were against the paltry investment in reopening Ennis-Athenry, now that it is open, surely any lobbying should be in the context of making best use of the investment?

Both you and Transport User 09 have got completely the wrong end of the brush here. What on earth do you mean by lobbying in the context of making best use of the investment - I don't think anyone on these boards on this side of the argument have ever lobbied that the line should not be used, a lot of us believe it won't be used to the forecast levels - so what? The investment was not paltry it was a significant sum of money from the taxpayer or money borrowed from the Germans to create a rail line that will need a massive level of on-going subvention per passenger from the state/Germans. It was irresponsible to invest in something that will continue to build up the national debt and be a drain on future taxpayers. Re this whole WRC thing, OK WRCS is up and running - lets all get out and use it - Why? when a brand new road will get me on my way in half the time? Reading Martin Mansergh speech posted above is another example of lip service paid to the WRC lobby it is clear where priorities lie -

Cookie_Monster

^^^ exactly

An investment in something that will lose money from now until eternity is not an investment worth making

invinciblePRSTV

westtip wrote: »

Both you and Transport User 09 have got completely the wrong end of the brush here. What on earth do you mean by lobbying in the context of making best use of the investment - I don't think anyone on these boards on this side of the argument have ever lobbied that the line should not be used, a lot of us believe it won't be used to the forecast levels - so what? The investment was not paltry it was a significant sum of money from the taxpayer or money borrowed from the Germans to create a rail line that will need a massive level of on-going subvention per passenger from the state/Germans. It was irresponsible to invest in something that will continue to build up the national debt and be a drain on future taxpayers. Re this whole WRC thing, OK WRCS is up and running - lets all get out and use it - Why? when a brand new road will get me on my way in half the time? Reading Martin Mansergh speech posted above is another example of lip service paid to the WRC lobby it is clear where priorities lie -

Indeed, or lets put it in simpler terms; when the inevitable next round of cuts (insisted upon by the Germans/EU) to the Dep of Transports budget occur where do they begin? There are only so many branch lines left which can be cut before IE will have to start focusing elsewhere. equally its expensive business pensioning off IE staff through early retirement schemes.

Which leads us to the WRCs subvention of 2m+ PA. Compared to the journey times & cost of other modes between Limerick & Galway the WRC fails, even more so when the undere construction M18 is finished. So IE have a choice of reducing services on this poorly patronised line or instead cutting services on busier services such as the Dublin & Cork commuter operations or the already under pressure Dublin-Regional Intercity lines.

A tie up between two provincial universities won't save the WRC and barring an explosion in industry & population along the line (a provision never planned for by any of the local authorities along the WRC) the line will never come close to clawing back any of that subvention. Imagine what 180 million would have done if it had been spent on upgrading the key arterial routes out of Dublin. Oh well.

westtip

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

.

A tie up between two provincial universities won't save the WRC and barring an explosion in industry & population along the line (a provision never planned for by any of the local authorities along the WRC) the line will never come close to clawing back any of that subvention. Imagine what 180 million would have done if it had been spent on upgrading the key arterial routes out of Dublin. Oh well.

Exactly - had the Galway - Dublin line been upgraded and the Athlone - Mullingar line opened to allow through trains from Connolly to Galway along with double tracking from Maynooth to Mullingar and for good measure a decent bus/rail interchange had been planned at some point just to the west of Galway on this railline - lets say close to the new M6/M18 interchange to allow linkages between the Atlantic Road Corridor and the upgraded rail line it would have benefitted the wesht a lot more than a branch line from limerick to Galway and a second proposed branch line from Claremorris to Galway - the Corridor does not actually exist it is the creation of two branch lines to Galway that we are looking at, one done (not to well by the sound of things with lack of passing loops etc) and one which hopefully will never be done, cos the second phase is a huge white elephant and the Germans won't sign off on it; nor for that matter should any right minded TD in Leinster House

Hungerford

westtip wrote: »

Exactly - had the Galway - Dublin line been upgraded and the Athlone - Mullingar line opened to allow through trains from Connolly to Galway

Neither of those things are necessary for through trains to run between those points. You seem to have forgotten about the Phoenix Park Tunnel.

westtip

Hungerford wrote: »

Neither of those things are necessary for through trains to run between those points. You seem to have forgotten about the Phoenix Park Tunnel.

indeed another missed opportunity for the west.

dowlingm

Anyone who thinks pooling of resources between UL and UCG will mean thousands of students trying to jam on the railways every day to go between campuses is living in a dream world. Lecturers might do a couple of days in Galway and Limerick, but they'll be paid mileage so will probably drive it.

There is an opportunity to bring rail close to higher ed, but it means building a halt at Longpavement (LIT - 6000 full/part-time students).

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

There is an opportunity to bring rail close to higher ed, but it means building a halt at Longpavement (LIT - 6000 full/part-time students).

Sure why would they have done that - it would require lateral thinking and common sense as part of the planning process. I see this project is going the same way of oh so many others - with more expensive retro fitting required after the politicians have had their day in the sun cutting the ribbons:

Passing loops, double tracking into Galway, Oranmore station, the above mentioned halt at LIT etc. So I suggest that anyone using the line now campaigning for the extension to Claremorris should actually be campaigning for the WRCS to be done properly and quite frankly forget about the rest of the line. It might make more sense to do one job properly than the whole job very badly.

dowlingm

In fairness, it will probably be easier to contemplate a Longpavement halt (and a loop at Sixmilebridge) after the Limerick resignalling, which, ahem, should have been done before the WRC opened...

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

In fairness, it will probably be easier to contemplate a Longpavement halt (and a loop at Sixmilebridge) after the Limerick resignalling, which, ahem, should have been done before the WRC opened...

The point I was making is we couldn't plan our way out of a paper bag; the execution of teh WRCS no matter what the pitfalls of the argument to have it in place are an example of the short cuts that lead to crap services in general. Still hopefully the Germans will sort us out when they take things over and start telling us how to do things properly.

serfboard

Don't forget about the railway station at Crusheen ...

A local developer has offered to make land available for a car park and railway station in Crusheen, Clare T.D. and Minister Tony Killeen has said.

Minister Killeen said he has received confirmation from Iarnród Eireann Chief Executive Richard Fearn that it has received substantial interest in the possibility of reopening the North Clare railway station, which is located along the route of the recently opened Western Rail Corridor.

The company has also confirmed it has submitted an application for funding to develop the station.

He said he reminded Mr Fearn that considerable information has been collated by the local community in Crusheen, with considerable assistance from Clare County Council, regarding the potential future use of the proposed rail stop.

"This information along with undertakings relating to the provision of adequate car parking facilities at the platform in Crusheen has been submitted to Iarnród Éireann," said Minister Killeen.

"In light of the credible case for reopening of the station, I have requested the company to review the potential for the establishment of a rail stop at Crusheen."

He noted there remained a strong case for the provision of a rail stop in Crusheen.

"Two stops are being provided for between Gort and Athenry and none on the very long stretch of railway between Ennis to Gort," the Minister added.

"Crusheen is an ideal location for people coming from Ruan, Corofin, Tubber, Boston and elsewhere in North Clare as well as Tulla and other areas of East Clare."

In a letter to the Minister, the Chief Executive of Iarnród Éireann outlined: "Whilst Crusheen was not included in the Transport 21 investment programme for the route (Limerick to Galway line), there has since been substantial interest in the possibility of reopening the station".

The CEO continued: "A local developer is prepared to make some land available for a station and car park, and Clare County Council has agreed to cooperate with the scheme. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs have indicated that they may provide CLAR funding for the station and Iarnród Eireann has submitted a formal application for the funding this year".

Link.

westtip

Hey Serf long time no hear on the nouveau WRC thread - yes good point its hilarious isn't it. Let's build a railway line and then start dropping in a station here and a station there a year or so after the thing was opened. As they say in the ads. The difference is we're irish. Mind all these extra stations may make that early morning commuter service hit the three hour mark

Of course its not confined to railways - witness the backfitting of the third lane on the M50, the same with the proper interchange at M4/M50, the oh what a surprise we need petrol stations/service stations on motorways, oh when will the Germans please take over.

Hungerford

serfboard wrote: »

Don't forget about the railway station at Crusheen ..

A town so small that the entire population could probably fit on a single train. What a great investment. :rolleyes:

DWCommuter

Hungerford wrote: »

A town so small that the entire population could probably fit on a single train. What a great investment. :rolleyes:

While Sallins station is still waiting on funding for a badly needed refit.:rolleyes:

Bodan

Stakeholders join forces against rail line closure
By Deirdre Dalton

THE South East Regional Authority (SERA) has agreed to host a meeting of all stakeholders in the region to consider the proposed closure of the Waterford to Rosslare rail link.

Following a motion proposed by Waterford City Cllr. Jack Walsh, of the Labour Party, it was unanimously decided the stakeholders which include the tourist sector, industry, business interests, trade unions, commuters and local authorities should join forces to fight against the decision.

The objective of the meeting would be to consider building a business case on how to improve the viability of the link.

The Government and Irish Rail will also be lobbied to provide the rail services identified by the stakeholders and to promote the route as a gateway from Rosslare to the south and west of the country connecting to the new rail developments in the west of Ireland.

Members of SERA voiced serious concern that the route had not been developed in a manner that would increase passenger numbers and they pointed out that the frequency and timing of schedules was the reason that passengers did not support the service.

Cllr. Jack Walsh advised the meeting that he had raised the possible closure of the route with the Minister of Transport, Mr. Noel Dempsey TD.

He said the Minister said Irish Rail had indicated the low number of passengers was the reason for the proposed closure and he further indicated that the passenger numbers on the Waterford Limerick Junction service was also causing concern.

Cllr. Jack Walsh believes that the present service of one train daily each way does not meet the needs of potential passengers as it is not integrated with the arrival/departure of ferry services in Rosslare nor is it designed to be attractive to people wanting to travel to Waterford and beyond.

“The present service is of little value to incoming tourists or indeed to potential commuters,” he said.

http://www.waterford-news.com/news/story/?trs=mhcwqlkfid&cat=news

If they can come up with a plan, i wonder will it have any effect on the decision to close the line.

westtip

Bodan wrote: »

http://www.waterford-news.com/news/story/?trs=mhcwqlkfid&cat=news

If they can come up with a plan, i wonder will it have any effect on the decision to close the line.

No they don't need a plan they need an octogenerian holy leader.

dowlingm

"the local developer" in Crusheen is offering land for a station. I don't know the guy so being mindful of libel and so on I can only give a guess at why he might be so public spirited.

One possibility - possibility mind - is that without a train station his land bank is worthless in the landscape of NAMAisation and the cost of offering worthless land to IE is negligible - but the cost of the station itself is not, which I would GUESS that the developer would expect IE to pay. The money might be coming to IE via a different Dept but that makes it tax euros either way since IE can't fund their own capital budget.

Furthermore, one might GUESS that land in places such as that MIGHT be a candidate for dezoning when the Dept of Environment starts leaning on Co. Councils to bring the supply of zoned land into line with demand.