Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

serfboard

dowlingm wrote: »

"the local developer" in Crusheen is offering land for a station. I don't know the guy so being mindful of libel and so on I can only give a guess at why he might be so public spirited.

One possibility - possibility mind - is that without a train station his land bank is worthless in the landscape of NAMAisation and the cost of offering worthless land to IE is negligible - but the cost of the station itself is not, which I would GUESS that the developer would expect IE to pay. The money might be coming to IE via a different Dept but that makes it tax euros either way since IE can't fund their own capital budget.

Furthermore, one might GUESS that land in places such as that MIGHT be a candidate for dezoning when the Dept of Environment starts leaning on Co. Councils to bring the supply of zoned land into line with demand.

Very good point - and there's no need to be circumspect about it. After all we have the very open arrangement whereby developers paid for DART and Luas stops, and I have no problem with that.

In this case, the developer has not offered to pay for the development of the station, so as you say, he does expect taxpayers to pay it.

In fairness, there are probably quite a few people in the Crusheen hinterland who commute into both Ennis and Limerick. As regards Limerick, whether they would be bothered with the 50 minute or so train journey is debatable. I can currently do Crusheen to Limerick in 22 minutes (yes, I have timed it). Now that is not at peak times, but the Crusheen bypass and the Shannon tunnel will make that journey even shorter. I would guess 20 minutes tops. So a car journey would save me time and take me to wherever in Limerick I want to go to (Raheen, UL etc.) without an onward journey.

westtip

Jim Martin wrote: »

Does anyone know if there are any figures available anywhere. On the journeys I've recently made, only 1 or 2 passengers if any, have either got on or off the train.

For such a comparitively large centre of population on the Ennis - Athenry line, I'm puzzled! There must be something going seriously wrong here!

Victor I saw your response on Jims question in which he has asked a specific question - thought WRC thread regulars would be interested in his post about what he is seeing at Gort Station .

I read it and thought Oh what a surprise things are settling down to what many of suspected would happen.

westtip

More stuff from the dream factory www.westontrack.com

September Date Expected For Decision on Tuam Rail Link
Press Release Thursday May 27th 2010

A decision on the reopening of the Tuam/Athenry rail line could be made in September.

At a meeting of Tuam Town Council last evening, members were told that Tuam Railway Station will celebrate its 150th anniversary on September 27th. A major event is planned for Tuam station to mark the occasion.

A decision on a rail link for the town is now widely expected to coincide with that date.
The Council met with local elected representatives and Oireachtas members as well as church and business leaders this week.

A number of West on Track campaigners also attended.

The project is expected to cost considerably less than previously thought due to a drop in construction costs of more than 30% over the past year.

The link to Tuam is scheduled for completion by the end of 2011 but will need to start this year in order to meet that target and to be in service in time for the Volvo Ocean Race in 2012, an event of enormous prestige and economic importance not only for the entire western region but for the whole country.

Could someone please tell me the signifigance of the Council meeting with Church leaders? WTF has the church got to do with transport planning????

Judgement Day

Re-construction work on the Burma Road won't be far behind! Watch out all you ginger beer swilling cyclists.

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

Re-construction work on the Burma Road won't be far behind! Watch out all you ginger beer swilling cyclists.

Are you on the same pills as WOT today JD?

Rawr

westontrack wrote:

The link to Tuam is scheduled for completion by the end of 2011 but will need to start this year in order to meet that target and to be in service in time for the Volvo Ocean Race in 2012, an event of enormous prestige and economic importance not only for the entire western region but for the whole country.

What? They want the Tuam spur open for...an ocean race? Has my geography knowledge betrayed me, or is it that Tuam actually boasts ocean-views?!

Judgement Day

One thing that I admire about West-on-Track is that they got something done, perhaps not the right thing but something. The monsignor got his airport at Knock, which I opposed all along and still do, but I still had to admire the man for his tenacity. If we had more like him the country wouldn't be in its present state.

corktina

Rawr wrote: »

What? They want the Tuam spur open for...an ocean race? Has my geography knowledge betrayed me, or is it that Tuam actually boasts ocean-views?!

have you not heard of global warming and rising sea levels?:D

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

One thing that I admire about West-on-Track is that they got something done, perhaps not the right thing but something. The monsignor got his airport at Knock, which I opposed all along and still do, but I still had to admire the man for his tenacity. If we had more like him the country wouldn't be in its present state.

Im sorry, but its because we have loads like him and WOT that the country is in the present state and I really shouldn't need to explain that.

Judgement Day

DWCommuter wrote: »

Im sorry, but its because we have loads like him and WOT that the country is in the present state and I really shouldn't need to explain that.

Ah no, I think when you consider it, the problem is all the gob****es who wring their hands and say it can't be done - whatever the issue. We don't have loads like him we have fools like Cowen, Gormley and Enda. So much for a can do attitude, much trumpeted but rarely if ever seen.

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

Ah no, I think when you consider it, the problem is all the gob****es who wring their hands and say it can't be done - whatever the issue. We don't have loads like him we have fools like Cowen, Gormley and Enda. So much for a can do attitude, much trumpeted but rarely if ever seen.

But its the fools like Cowen etc that get taken in by the regional threat to their power from the likes of WOT. Im sure you have noticed that the two "can do" examples you cited are both west of Ireland based, a region that has traded on the poor mouth and demanded infrastructure more suited to densely populated regions. The begging bowl and pound of flesh mentality they use is based on disgruntled TDs and biased ministers.

Note: I was remaining quiet the last few weeks, until your post stirred up my inner demons.:D

westtip

You will love this one DW. Sligo Coco said to me recently they can't do anything about the Greenway idea for Claremorris-Collooney until they have consulted with West on Track....

WTF has happened to this country.

DWCommuter wrote: »

But its the fools like Cowen etc that get taken in by the regional threat to their power from the likes of WOT. Im sure you have noticed that the two "can do" examples you cited are both west of Ireland based, a region that has traded on the poor mouth and demanded infrastructure more suited to densely populated regions. The begging bowl and pound of flesh mentality they use is based on disgruntled TDs and biased ministers.

Note: I was remaining quiet the last few weeks, until your post stirred up my inner demons.:D

Spot on - mind you Knock Airport is bloody useful.

DWCommuter

You will love this one DW. Sligo Coco said to me recently they can't do anything about the Greenway idea for Claremorris-Collooney until they have consulted with West on Track....

WTF has happened to this country.

WTF is right. Incredible stuff Westtip.

mind you Knock Airport is bloody useful.

Im sure it is except it should'nt have been built near Knock.

Victor

The link to Tuam is scheduled for completion by the end of 2011 but will need to start this year in order to meet that target and to be in service in time for the Volvo Ocean Race in 2012, an event of enormous prestige and economic importance not only for the entire western region but for the whole country.

Yachts in Tuam?

EDIT: Sorry, late to the show.

Hungerford

Victor wrote: »

Yachts in Tuam?

Yep. They are planning to use the WRC alignment. Should be deep enough based on last Winter.

foggy_lad

how is this old chestnut doing over the bank holiday weekend? has anyone got fugures for friday or today?

glineli

dowlingm wrote: »

"the local developer" in Crusheen is offering land for a station. I don't know the guy so being mindful of libel and so on I can only give a guess at why he might be so public spirited.

The land owner offered 2 sites and they have gone with the less obvious one. I was told over the weekend they are almost ready to submit planning and see it up and running in the next year.

Is there any update on the Oranmore station? I was told it was out the coast road, can anyone confirm its location?

corktina

That will speed up the service and make it more competitive wont it!

glineli

corktina wrote: »

That will speed up the service and make it more competitive wont it!

I know but just asking anyway as planning is going to be submitted soon

corktina

glineli wrote: »

I know but just asking anyway as planning is going to be submitted soon

sorry, wasnt referrring to your post, just the folly of opening a station at Crusheen (Oranmore is a better idea...but Crusheen !!!!Perleeze!

westtip

corktina wrote: »

sorry, wasnt referrring to your post, just the folly of opening a station at Crusheen (Oranmore is a better idea...but Crusheen !!!!Perleeze!

Simple really because WOT is a "community based project" as we have always been told and every parish along the route must have a station which of course only adds to the slowness of the journey - BTW I spoke to someone from Clare recently who was visiting my neck of the woods - he claimed it has a massive uptake on the WRC sure he said I only got the train myself last week from Ennis to Galway in the morning and there were at least 20 people on it when we got into Galway.....

Ahem ......Massive uptake indeed, Half a bus load......

glineli

corktina wrote: »

sorry, wasnt referrring to your post, just the folly of opening a station at Crusheen (Oranmore is a better idea...but Crusheen !!!!Perleeze!

A stop in Crusheen suits me fine

Seriously, Oranmore needs a stop with a park and ride as soon as possible.

dowlingm

A long post on IRN with a few interesting observations:

Ardvarna wrote:

There are no serious efforts being made to attract commuters, such as promotions in local newspapers; local businesses or government offices. As a regular user and advocate even I am finding it increasingly difficult to justify to fellow passengers the frequent slowing down to a crawl and blowing of the monotone horn in advance of overgrown and little used farmers crossings. There are more warning signs and speed restrictions around these than one would expect to see were the train passing through the streetmarkets of Bangkok!

Even the cattle in the fields have the look on their faces of bewilderment at this over the top regulation. Cattle with the experience of dwelling a few miles away adjacent to the Athenry to Galway line know that trains on that route belt through farmers crossings at 80mph.

Ardvarna wrote:

The timetable will, we all hope, be modified sooner rather than later to optimise the potential of the trains and the track and signalling. Again it is increasingly difficult to defend the time-killing drivers have to practice approaching stations and at stations in order to stick to the timetable.

Ardvarna wrote:

Within a half mile of departing from either end of this alledged €106m new railway, trains slow to 5mph - yes 5mph - to, in the first instance at Athenry, pass over a turnout. Trains rely on turnouts to move from one track to another and can do so at maximum speed all over the world - but not on the new alledged €106m railway at Athenry.

Ardvarna wrote:

Speaking of building things before the line opened, there was a new river bridge built half mile north of Ennis, but for some reason, perhaps to afford passengers a birds eye view of the rubbish strewn river below, there's a, guess what, over the new river bridge,.............. yesss- a 5mph speed limit. By co-incidence this provides another "careful now this could be wobbly" moment as you start your journey from the southern direction on the alledged €106m railway.

DWCommuter

dowlingm wrote: »

A long post on IRN with a few interesting observations:

Those points are relevant to the entire network which is why the drop in subvention has ultimately started the closure orders. IE cannot and will never be able to effectively manage the railway. For every euro taken off the subvention a mile of track will close. Its akin to eating a family members flesh to keep another family member alive.

Without subvention IE cannot run a railway. So this begs the question. If subvention is for a social purpose, why don't they just tell us which lines make a profit or cover their costs?

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

A long post on IRN with a few interesting observations:

It would appear that the railway enthusiasts are even less than enthusiastic about the service they are getting - promoting a service that is cr*p will result in one thing only - trial usage and then ......withdrawal from usage. I wonder how many customers have tried this service because of all the hoo ha there has been about it and then said my god what a heap of cr*p I won't be using that again ..... Let's face it the journey times if you take account of the total journey time, travelling to station you want to get to and then getting to your final destination is just not acceptable to most people these days - For all the campaigning there has been for WRC south, it seems not only will all the rationale arguments against the WRC kill it off (lack of people to sustain it etc) but the totally cr*p service being delivered will make sure it does not succeed. Now a quick question have we got any unofficial headcounts on this line these days....

T Corolla

I read some of the threads on peoples opinion of this railway service. Can anyone honestly remember back before celtic tiger times the low level of investment in railways in Ireland. Journeys of similar diastance took the same amount of time and what happened to improve them was that passengers started to use the service. This is going to be the faith of the Limerick-Galway railway line. People along the line are going to have to use it in order for it to improve. It maybe a bitter pill for people to swallow but it must be done. This line can become a symbol of the soul of the southwest and west and I am sure if it improves it is testament to their strength. The same region has suffered considerably because of the recession but if this line becomes a lesser burden to the state it will be down to the people and nothing else. In these times people need to believe it can be sucessful and IMO it will. Thanks for reading

corktina

T Corolla wrote: »

I read some of the threads on peoples opinion of this railway service. Can anyone honestly remember back before celtic tiger times the low level of investment in railways in Ireland. Journeys of similar diastance took the same amount of time and what happened to improve them was that passengers started to use the service. This is going to be the faith of the Limerick-Galway railway line. People along the line are going to have to use it in order for it to improve. It maybe a bitter pill for people to swallow but it must be done. This line can become a symbol of the soul of the southwest and west and I am sure if it improves it is testament to their strength. The same region has suffered considerably because of the recession but if this line becomes a lesser burden to the state it will be down to the people and nothing else. In these times people need to believe it can be sucessful and IMO it will. Thanks for reading

expensive, infrequent and slow, but use it anyway in the hope that one day by a miracle a way will be found to run a high speed frequent service (on a single line) which can stop on a sixpence for the odd station here and there...

Laudable though your post is, I don't think its possible with this line to make a silk purse out of it without totally rebuilding it from first principals.

Judgement Day

T Corolla wrote: »

I read some of the threads on peoples opinion of this railway service. Can anyone honestly remember back before celtic tiger times the low level of investment in railways in Ireland. Journeys of similar diastance took the same amount of time and what happened to improve them was that passengers started to use the service. This is going to be the faith of the Limerick-Galway railway line. People along the line are going to have to use it in order for it to improve. It maybe a bitter pill for people to swallow but it must be done. This line can become a symbol of the soul of the southwest and west and I am sure if it improves it is testament to their strength. The same region has suffered considerably because of the recession but if this line becomes a lesser burden to the state it will be down to the people and nothing else. In these times people need to believe it can be sucessful and IMO it will. Thanks for reading

Don't quite see your point, as many rail journeys (Dublin/Cork, Dublin/Belfast etc) are slower now than in pre-Celtic Tiger days.

markpb

T Corolla wrote: »

People along the line are going to have to use it in order for it to improve. It maybe a bitter pill for people to swallow but it must be done.

People won't use it unless it provides some advantage over the other options open to them.

T Corolla

I see your points and agree that some of the journey times have not improved but the frequency has improved. Dublin-Sligo used to be a journey of 4hrs before the on track 2000 programme now the journey of 3hrs with a train every two hours from 5:45am to 19:00 that is an improvement in anyone books. Dublin-Cork was 2 hrs 30 min pre 2000 now is it 2hrs 50 min but there is a hourly service in place since 2006 thats an improvement. Limerick-Galway needs more work I agree but it will be 106million euros of waste if the passenger numbers fall off. I would like to see a journey time of 1hr 10min to 1hr 20min on this line in a 5yr time frame this can be achieved. There is as much argument for the no hope side as there is for hope. I would call on Irish rail to introduce the 10 euro day return fare on this line as it did on all main lines into Dublin. Prior to this the fares were expensive to say the least but its introduction has transformed into footfall and into revenue. Online booking fares would also be an enormus aid to this line which will come in time as it has to all other lines