Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

maninasia

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Great idea and only 40 years late IMO.

Ireland has lost the bicycle tourist market not that it was ever worth much as a market when we had it ....but still. We used to call them "Vazindoolins" in Galway because they always seemed to say "I Vaz In Doolin" ....NEVER in Clare only Doolin.

Most cyclists would be Irish, next British, European, N.Americans and many Asians..the world has changed since then. Major users would be weekend city folk getting out into nature and some exercise. Cycling tours and holidays are popular in Asia already. Take it from me Asians would LOVE to cycle on such a track in Ireland.

Cycling is going to be a huge leisure pursuit in the next few years once more cycle lanes are built.

westtip

maninasia wrote: »

stupidity?

You got it with that last word, It wouldn't be corruption as there is no profit for anyone to be made out of the WRC, Thanks for those photos couple of posts up to Unit 1 - intend cycling this track very soon; when they extend it to Achill the obvious benefits of this approach will become apparent - A Mayo Coco councillor said to me recently he "thinks the same treatment on the WRC would be money well spent and would definiely bring tourists in" this was after he had cycled the track and he saw the light whilst on his bike - I won't release his name as WOT may put a contract on him! But believe me the worm is turning. Watch out for news to come.

DWCommuter

westtip wrote: »

You got it with that last word, It wouldn't be corruption as there is no profit for anyone to be made out of the WRC, Thanks for those photos couple of posts up to Unit 1 - intend cycling this track very soon; when they extend it to Achill the obvious benefits of this approach will become apparent - A Mayo Coco councillor said to me recently he "thinks the same treatment on the WRC would be money well spent and would definiely bring tourists in" this was after he had cycled the track and he saw the light whilst on his bike - I won't release his name as WOT may put a contract on him! But believe me the worm is turning. Watch out for news to come.

Well the song is saying "walk the line", but there's definately a train on it.:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KOQVByxmMs

dowlingm

westtip wrote: »

Thanks for those photos couple of posts up to Unit 1 - intend cycling this track very soon; when they extend it to Achill the obvious benefits of this approach will become apparent - A Mayo Coco councillor said to me recently he "thinks the same treatment on the WRC would be money well spent and would definiely bring tourists in" this was after he had cycled the track and he saw the light whilst on his bike

The news I expect is IE turning away cyclists trying to meet up with the cycleway at Westport or Castlebar.

As for the WRC, I don't think the 45 mile section Claremorris-Athenry should be given up on (to get Belview freight off the Galway mainline and reduce the deadheading of Ballina trains to Limerick depot by almost 50 miles every changeover) but the Collooney-Swinford section should be paved straight-off, with the intention of creating a through-route to Achill.

westtip

dowling just to clarify and for Derek to, the councillor I spoke with was referring to the Collooney - Claremorris section as being ideal for a greenway -which is what I have always harped on about - although I see no harm in running a greenway parallel with the Athenry - Claremorris section (would be used by more people in any event), BTW any news on numbers using the Ennis - Athenry section yet? Especially now we are out of the holiday season for a while and the "excitement" has ebbed away a bit for those that feel they must give it a try, my guess is becasue we are seeing no numbers posted they have err..... dwindled.

westtip

The issue of a greenway for Claremorris/Collooney is due to be debated on Mid West Radio on Tuesday morning just after 10.00 am.

rainbowdash

the parents were on the 2pm train down from Galway yesterday and said there was a handy crowd on it, whatever that means. Everybody I talk to is complaining about the prices and feels they are excessive given the recession. Lots of stories about people planning to get the train but when they priced it, it was just too expensive and drove instead.

dynamick

16K pax in first month.
Near 200k if that number sustains for a year

The business case predicted 100K pax in year 1 rising to 200k pax in year 5. So that's looking good. Only problem is that 200k pax only recovers a third of operating costs. And remember that we are just writing off the 106m construction cost.

They would need 600K pax just to break even on operations.

Galway rail route beats expectations
GORDON DEEGAN

PASSENGER TRAFFIC on the first phase of the Western Rail Corridor has exceeded expectations, Iarnród Éireann said yesterday.

A spokeswoman for the company said 16,000 journeys were made in the first month of the new Limerick-Galway service, which has been restored at a cost of €106.5 million.

The service was reintroduced after 34 years on March 29th.

“The first month’s operations have exceeded expectations, with significant demand experienced from day one,” the spokeswoman said.

Colman Ó Raghallaigh of West on Track said the performance on the new rail line “has confounded the critics”.

“We believe that, given the success of phase one, there is now no further excuse for prevarication as far as continuing with the next phases to Tuam and Claremorris.”

The Iarnród Éireann spokeswoman said: “The 16,000 passenger journeys recorded are on top of the existing 14,400 monthly journeys on the Limerick-Ennis service, meaning the through route has seen over 30,000 passenger journeys in its first month

There is more...

Victor

dynamick wrote: »

The Iarnród Éireann spokeswoman said: “The 16,000 passenger journeys recorded are on top of the existing 14,400 monthly journeys on the Limerick-Ennis service, meaning the through route has seen over 30,000 passenger journeys in its first month

No you fool, if they only travel Limerick-Ennis, they aren't using the "through route".

dowlingm

Victor wrote: »

No you fool, if they only travel Limerick-Ennis, they aren't using the "through route".

The Limerick-Ennis section should also be getting an uptick in its own right due to Sixmilebridge.

Also, Athenry-Galway can only be counted as incremental in part - although some of the existing services will be more attractive due to the number of options either coming or going presented by the additional 5 services per direction.

Do not speak to us of trainloads, Mr. IE man. Tell us of boardings per station.

That said, owt is better than nowt - and how much better would the owt be by dumping the Gort-Athenry intermediate stops and opening Oranmore ASAP.

corktina

16k in first month reflects a lot of once-off novelty travellers who will never travel again (and to get a true figure, all free ticket passngers should be deducted. ) lets see the figures in 6 months time.

Son of Stupido

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0504/1224269640188.html

westtip

corktina wrote: »

16k in first month reflects a lot of once-off novelty travellers who will never travel again (and to get a true figure, all free ticket passngers should be deducted. ) lets see the figures in 6 months time.

Absolutely Corktina - BTW a very positive response in this neck of the woods to the debate that went on local airways today regarding the Claremorris/Collooney section.

The website www.sligomayogreenway.com has just been launched its a bit bare at the moment but its there to get feedback on. Intereting that WOT did not mention this section in their comments in the Irish Times and their website no longer really talks about the WRC through to Collooney - The acid test is how many incremental journies have been done by fare paying passengers....on the new section only.

Jim Martin

The 2 trips I've made (30/03/10 & 28/04/10) on the 12.34 Ennis - Galway & 17.25 return, have only seen 1 or 2 people get on & off at Gort. I can't believe this for such a relatively large town on the line. What's going wrong here?

westtip

Jim Martin wrote: »

The 2 trips I've made (30/03/10 & 28/04/10) on the 12.34 Ennis - Galway & 17.25 return, have only seen 1 or 2 people get on & off at Gort. I can't believe this for such a relatively large town on the line. What's going wrong here?

errr....perhaps there is just no demand for the service???? despite the hyperbole and figures which need very close scrutiny published in the Irish Times

rainbowdash

westtip wrote: »

Absolutely Corktina - BTW a very positive response in this neck of the woods to the debate that went on local airways today regarding the Claremorris/Collooney section.

The website www.sligomayogreenway.com has just been launched its a bit bare at the moment but its there to get feedback on. Intereting that WOT did not mention this section in their comments in the Irish Times and their website no longer really talks about the WRC through to Collooney - The acid test is how many incremental journies have been done by fare paying passengers....on the new section only.

Lies, lies and damn statistics. Why ignore Ennis - Limerick loadings. Its not that long ago Ennis - Limerick was almost abandoned and only saw a few freight trains running on it. Had Limerick-Ennis not recovered then I doubt Athenry - Ennis would ever have recovered.

Transportuser09

corktina wrote: »

16k in first month reflects a lot of once-off novelty travellers who will never travel again (and to get a true figure, all free ticket passngers should be deducted. ) lets see the figures in 6 months time.

'Free ticket passengers' well apart from the likes of OAPs who count as passengers the same as everyone else. Their 'fare' is still covered even if they themselves don't pay it. Think about it - what ever about state run companies how else would the private bus operators be able to afford to offer free travel to OAPs if their fares where not in some way paid for.

corktina

Ennis to Limerick is a different matter as it grew on the back of commuters to Dublin using it. The extension to Athenry is unlikely to attract extra passengers in this category (except those currently driving to Athenry or Ennis)

BluntGuy

I would absolutely love to be putting my hands up right now and say "we were wrong", but it's far too early. Will IE/WOT be so vocal after summer when ridership is most-likely going to be in the mid-thousands.

wild handlin

I've been following this thread recently and correct me if I'm wrong but I still see that there are several members "wanting" to see the WRC fall flat on it's face to prove that they were right.

At the end of the line is built and is open. End of Story. And if it does loose millions of euro each year?? So what?? Theres plenty of other lines in Ireland which are loosing money. Why do you only seem concerned with the WRC loosing money, yet what about all the other lines in Ireland that recieve a general subsidy each year and are loss making lines. What about the THOUSANDS of litres of fuel wasted daily with many empty units running the guts of 100 miles each day (Portlaoise - Dublin - Portlaoise).
I don't see many posters here up in arms rioting at this; which in fareness is probably costing IE millions each year on additional wear and tear, fuel, drivers and track deteration.

Westtipp: Can you please outline what the huge benifits of opening a cycleroute from Collooney - Claremorris will achieve?? Last time I visited Collooney there was no huge tourist grabbing "must see" event or attraction. What will the cyclists do when they reach Collooney? Brave the N4 dual carrage way into Sligo? Turn around and peddle back to Claremorris? Of course as we all know Claremorris is a capitol for tourism in the West of Ireland.....
If anything from my pospective it appears that this is nothing more than a "I don't want to ever see trains travel from Collooney - Claremorris therefore I'm going to do everything in my power to prevent this from happening".

If you really want to cycling take off in this country then I suggest you look at more scenic routes. If the area you are so much wanting to become a cycle route if from Claremorris - Collooney then what about from Tobercurry - Ballina, via Lough Talt and up over the mountains. Surely this would bring in alot more interest over the attractions in terms of scenary than Collooney - Claremorris would bring - other than to a few who want to cycle a railway line.

You have got to put things into perspective, Ireland doesn't have the climate for a huge "out door" tourism market, such as cycling. What will this cycle route do between October and March for example? And also, if the previous summers were anything to go by then I doubt that many cyclists would see the "fun" in cycling thru driving wind and rain for 1 - 2 days with-out stopping.

The WRC is linking communities together and (I personally) am surprised at how well it seems to be doing. I fully agree with what the WOT group are now saying in expending the line to Claremorris and I believe that this should be under-taken as soon as the money is availible and start running freight trains from Mayo - the south in order to cap some of the loss in which this line is making. You gotta spend money to make money.

As regards my view on Collooney - Claremorris I believe that it should remain intact until such time as a suitable market opens to enable the line to become profitable. It's not rocket science. Infact I would again suggest looking at a rail-freight flow to gain some money and give the tax payer some return on the cost of re-building the line.

Anyway, this is only my own humble opinion, and everyone is entitled to their opinion and views etc.

Oh, and before anyone asks, I have NO connection with WOT - or any rail lobby group for that matter.

Transportuser09

wild handlin wrote: »

The WRC is linking communities together and (I personally) am surprised at how well it seems to be doing. I fully agree with what the WOT group are now saying in expending the line to Claremorris and I believe that this should be under-taken as soon as the money is availible and start running freight trains from Mayo - the south in order to cap some of the loss in which this line is making. You gotta spend money to make money.

Exactly. Even if the line doesn't make a huge amount of money in the short term, it provides a foundation for furture growth. I beleive Limerick-Ennis was cut back to a few trains a week at one point, now look at it.

corktina

well I for one will be delighted to be proved wrong, I dont think i will be though and it sticks in my throat to see other lines being closed to open another loss making line. IE investment needs to be targeted on what it does best..ie Commuter and InterCity not White Elephants like this, and DEFINATELY not Pie in the Sky like opening any further north....

lord lucan

I'd love nothing more than to see the WRC succeed,after all it's mine and everyone elses taxes that have gone into reopening it. Saying it's a resounding success after a few weeks and using that as leverage for phase 2 is jumping the gun a bit imo. Reasonably it needs 6 months to show it's true potential or lack of. Unfortunately,if IE are strong armed into it by government they'll use it as an excuse close another line in order to maintain services on WRC part 2.

Victor

wild handlin wrote: »

Westtipp: Can you please outline what the huge benifits of opening a cycleroute from Collooney - Claremorris will achieve??

It preserves the line from encroachment by neighbours.

Cycling tourism in Ireland dropped from something like 600,000 per year to 200,000 per year during the boom because motorised traffic was scaring away cyclists. Typical cycle tourists spend more than package tourists and tend to spend it in local communities (B&B, restaurant, shop, etc.) rather than a travel agent getting the bulk of the money. Our weather isn't so bad as to deter tourists - you can see a lot more from a bike than you can from a tour bus with windows full of condensation and lots of cyclists come for the soft days - something they may not be used to at home.

A cycle route can be implemented for about €100,000 per km (compared to €10m/km for a motorway - that is 1%). This route and similar appear to have received positive response from locals and visitors alike. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055861419&highlight=westport former railway alignments are perfectly suitable for cycle route due to the gentle gradients.

There is no sense in building a railway at substantial cost (and north of Athenry will cost) to carry freight when a railway already exists to carry that freight. The big cost in a railway is the fixed costs. Adding traffic to an existing railway is the most cost efficient way of operating.

wild handlin

From Transportuser09: "I beleive Limerick-Ennis was cut back to a few trains a week at one point, now look at it."

Limerick - Ennis had at one time one service a week - a through train from Dublin on a Thursday only. This was built apon over the years to what the level of service is today.

From Victor: "It preserves the line from encroachment by neighbours.

Cycling tourism in Ireland dropped from something like 600,000 per year to 200,000 per year during the boom because motorised traffic was scaring away cyclists. Typical cycle tourists spend more than package tourists and tend to spend it in local communities (B&B, restaurant, shop, etc.) rather than a travel agent getting the bulk of the money. Our weather isn't so bad as to deter tourists - you can see a lot more from a bike than you can from a tour bus with windows full of condensation and lots of cyclists come for the soft days - something they may not be used to at home."

That is a fair point Victor, and in essence I agree with opening short sections of old line that will never be used again for this purpose in order to promote tourism, however opening a cycle route from a village to a town nearly 50 miles away which in all honesty isn't exactly Ireland's tourist hot-spot doesn't exactly seem a logical proposal. Something like a streach between Westport - Achill (both alot more "touristy" than Collooney or Claremorris!)
Regarding the preservation of the land, surely this is still in CIE ownership, and in theory anyone who builds over it would have to go through CIE first and then the planning dept in order to grant permission to build. I'm saying this in theory..........

"There is no sense in building a railway at substantial cost (and north of Athenry will cost) to carry freight when a railway already exists to carry that freight. The big cost in a railway is the fixed costs. Adding traffic to an existing railway is the most cost efficient way of operating."

The building of Atherny - Claremorris would enable freight being carried from Mayo - South East would considerly stream-line the operation, and would also open up other freight flows which would be more economical to operate in my opinion. You would only have 1 run/round at Limerick (and infact it could just be a straight loco swap rather than a run-round). However, by going via Athlone and Kildare you have the problem of firstly

- additonal mileage = more costly to the customer,
- run round Kildare = this must be a nightmare with trains passing thru on a frequent basis. It would also keep the Athlone - Portarlington line clear for the expansion of Galway and Athlone services.

The WRC (if opened all the way to Claremorris - and IF the willpower is there to expand railfreight) could turn out to be one of the most profitable lines in the country.

westtip

wild handlin wrote: »

Westtipp: Can you please outline what the huge benifits of opening a cycleroute from Collooney - Claremorris will achieve?? Last time I visited Collooney there was no huge tourist grabbing "must see" event or attraction. What will the cyclists do when they reach Collooney? Brave the N4 dual carrage way into Sligo? Turn around and peddle back to Claremorris? Of course as we all know Claremorris is a capitol for tourism in the West of Ireland.....
If anything from my pospective it appears that this is nothing more than a "I don't want to ever see trains travel from Collooney - Claremorris therefore I'm going to do everything in my power to prevent this from happening". .

Far from it - I happen to believe this part of the route has been a dead duck as a railway from day one; the Mccann report of 2005 made that clear and even West on Track don't really campaign that hard for this section of the line to be rebuilts - and I am not going to repeat all the arguments as to why (re-engineering an old light railway to heavy rail standards, getting past the problem of 200 - yes 200 crossings in 47 miles - which will result in avg speeds of circa 25 mph for "intercity" trains, err lack of people living in the area it passes through, lack of real demand for this service, far greater national transport priorities and local transport priorities (n17/18 for one) -

Regarding your snipe about them braving the N4 DC into sligo - well there is the old N4 if they want to go to Sligo - or they could come by train from Dublin to Claremorris with their bike if IE will let them cycle the greenway and take the train from Collooney back to Dublin? Now theres a thought about how a weekend away need not mean taking the car. Anyway these greenway routes are not just about doing the whole route from end to end - with access points along the way they can be used in parts for walking and cyling so people just use segments for say just going out for a Sunday walk, evenng stroll, run or cycle.

You are quite right about the Route not going through a tourist hotspot, but what this execution would do is open peoples minds to somewhere different and create tourist opportunities- it would be a very pleasant days cycling or couple of days walking.

wild handlin wrote: »

If you really want to cycling take off in this country then I suggest you look at more scenic routes. If the area you are so much wanting to become a cycle route if from Claremorris - Collooney then what about from Tobercurry - Ballina, via Lough Talt and up over the mountains. Surely this would bring in alot more interest over the attractions in terms of scenary than Collooney - Claremorris would bring - other than to a few who want to cycle a railway line..

Yes and no, but look at the work of Sustrans in the Uk the objective is to create a national cycle/off road pedestrian network. A lot of their work has concentrated on creating greenways in suburban areas. You have highlighted an interesting route - in mentioning lough talt which benefits from being at the cross roads of the Western and Sligo way and would greatly benefit if the track ont he non road side of hte lough was extended to circum navigate the entire lough, the road down to Tubercurry is not bad for cycling on so from Lough Talt you coud connect with this greenway very well. Don't underestimate the demand for safe cycling and walking facilities - if this route is opened it will become a day tripping spot for residents of Sligo townm Ballina and Castlebar - and it ill be used not jsut by cyclists but walkers, parents with young kids desperate for these kind of safe facilities, people with elderly and infirm relatives, wheelchair users, recreational and serious long distance runners, there is a market along this route and within East Sligo and East Mayo just for the locals to use this route. have you tried the pleasantries of walking on our country roads of late - you take your life in your hands, believe me I am not campaigning for this resolution to spite WOT or trainspotters - I just think for a cost effective use of a public facility it will be a solution that delivers the greater good to a far greater number of people. Plus the fact it is a proven formula that has worked all over Europe but then again we are of course different aren't we?

wild handlin wrote: »

You have got to put things into perspective, Ireland doesn't have the climate for a huge "out door" tourism market, such as cycling. What will this cycle route do between October and March for example? And also, if the previous summers were anything to go by then I doubt that many cyclists would see the "fun" in cycling thru driving wind and rain for 1 - 2 days with-out stopping. ..

I couldn't disagree more! There is huge capacity for outdoor tourism here - Are you telling me Scotland has a better climate - and they (the scots) beat us hands down in promoting hill walking as a tourist activity - that is worth millions to the highlands and islands economy - so I thinkg you are talking through your hat on this subject. And what about locals who live near the greenway they need safe recreational walking and cycling facilities that will be used all year round.

wild handlin wrote: »

The WRC is linking communities together and (I personally) am surprised at how well it seems to be doing. I fully agree with what the WOT group are now saying in expending the line to Claremorris and I believe that this should be under-taken as soon as the money is availible and start running freight trains from Mayo - the south in order to cap some of the loss in which this line is making. You gotta spend money to make money.

As regards my view on Collooney - Claremorris I believe that it should remain intact until such time as a suitable market opens to enable the line to become profitable. It's not rocket science. Infact I would again suggest looking at a rail-freight flow to gain some money and give the tax payer some return on the cost of re-building the line.

.

The greenway will really connect people in a way that has not happened for a long time - they will walk and cycle to each others houses. Re waiting for a time when things pick up economically and Collooney claremorris can become viable as a railway I am afraid you, your children and probably your grand children will be pushing up daisies long before that day arrives!

Carawaystick

wild handlin wrote: »

At the end of the line is built and is open. End of Story. And if it does loose millions of euro each year?? So what??

Assuming you are tax resident in Ireland, then the govt will be picking your pocket to pay for this loss after picking your pocket to build the thing even though there is a cheaper, faster, better alternative being provided by Citylink and BÉ on the soon to be even better N/M18 route in Parallel; which incidentally doesn't close for more than a month at a time after a bit of rain falls in this arid country we live in.

The country is broke and you advocate starting wasting money in new and imaginative ways. 16000 passengers in a month is just over 500 a day or about 53 per train ( assuming 5 trains each way per day) which is about how many seats there are on a normal coach....

Victor

wild handlin wrote: »

Regarding the preservation of the land, surely this is still in CIE ownership, and in theory anyone who builds over it would have to go through CIE first and then the planning dept in order to grant permission to build. I'm saying this in theory..........

There are photos knocking about of gardens and I think a car dealership extended across the railway.

The building of Atherny - Claremorris

Will cost a fortune. How about locals contribute (or indeed pay in full) for the cost of this, as the residents of Carrigtwohill, Midleton, Adamstown, Parkwest, Blanchardstown, Dunboyne, Clongriffin have paid?

would enable freight being carried from Mayo - South East would considerly stream-line the operation, and would also open up other freight flows which would be more economical to operate in my opinion. You would only have 1 run/round at Limerick (and infact it could just be a straight loco swap rather than a run-round). However, by going via Athlone and Kildare you have the problem of firstly

- additonal mileage = more costly to the customer,
- run round Kildare = this must be a nightmare with trains passing thru on a frequent basis. It would also keep the Athlone - Portarlington line clear for the expansion of Galway and Athlone services.

Bull. You are saying that a freight train will obstruct services on one single-line track, but not another. Will you magically make one train pass through another hocus-pocus style? If you want to improve services in the west, you would be much better off putting in passing loops or dynamic loops, especially on Portarlington-Athlone, but also Galway-Athlone.

- run round Kildare = this must be a nightmare with trains passing thru on a frequent basis.

It wouldn't be much of a problem if the full Kildare Route Project was implemented as far as Cherryville Junction. You are feeding the west by eating the Midland's children.

The WRC (if opened all the way to Claremorris - and IF the willpower is there to expand railfreight) could turn out to be one of the most profitable lines in the country.

How? What major industries between Athenry and Claremorris (but not in their catchments) are there that will feed these services?

And what happens when the line floods at Kiltartan and near Ennis for weeks on end?

westtip

rainbowdash wrote: »

Lies, lies and damn statistics. Why ignore Ennis - Limerick loadings. Its not that long ago Ennis - Limerick was almost abandoned and only saw a few freight trains running on it. Had Limerick-Ennis not recovered then I doubt Athenry - Ennis would ever have recovered.

I just don't get yoru point? ennis limerick is commuter service for Limerick the WRC is supposed to be an intercity route we have all been waiting with baited breath for. We do need to know:

How many passengers are doing the through route, Limerick - Galway.

What the additional volumes of passengers have turned to rail because of the building of the Ennis Athenry section.

How many season ticket holders are there?

How many free pass users are there - and with due respect to one poster further up the thread, yes the bus and train companies get paid for "free" bus pass holders but it does not make good economic sense to build new railways to target the free loaders - in the end the tax payer is double subventing the route!

westtip

Victor wrote: »

There are photos knocking about of gardens and I think a car dealership extended across the railway.

Will cost a fortune. How about locals contribute (or indeed pay in full) for the cost of this, as the residents of Carrigtwohill, Midleton, Adamstown, Parkwest, Blanchardstown, Dunboyne, Clongriffin have paid?

?

Excellent idea Victor - that will bring it to a grinding halt!