Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

dowlingm

Victor wrote: »

That includes 3-4 stations, a huge amount of car parking and a bunch of new bridges.

And at least part of it is being paid for by developers.

My point exactly. This is how much it costs to do it right, and those who benefit should be forking out, either through developer levies, municipal bonds or property taxes/tax increment financing. The WRC was done on the cheap with no co-financing I've heard of. Even 5-10pc of the 106m budget could have made a difference in that the Oranmore design and PP could have been paid for or the Gort double section lengthened or a few of the more egregious curves straightened and dips raised.

Here in North America municipalities and states/provinces don't expect to get infrastructure for free and often they provide the majority of the funding. The political model in Ireland militates AGAINST local people being hit in the pocket and thus taking an interest in ensuring the financial viability of the project.

DWCommuter

I present to you, Ciaran Cuffe Green Party TD for Dun Laoghaire, and his self styled "TV" appearance at the launch of the WRC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CcbiWSo-Kg

In 2004, when Platform 11 ran the Extend the DART campaign, he personally telephoned me and asked to be taken off the web sites petition list as his constituency of Dun Laoghaire had nothing to do with it.:rolleyes:

But it's nice to see him so happy in the west droning on about sustainable transport and a "bit of grub".

It's all about priorities, isn't it?:rolleyes:

Judgement Day

Ah yes, the Greens love to get their faces into the trough with their disgusting FF bedfellows! Nice to see them stuffing their faces in the former MGWR/CIE/Great Southern Hotel - sold off cheap by FF to property developer friend Gerry Barrett. I understand that Anglo are big into Gerry Barrett so perhaps the hotel may yet find its way back into State ownership? Incidentally, is just me or do other people also get the impression that Ciaran Cuffe is on the waccy baccy or something stronger?

FlameoftheWest

DWCommuter wrote: »

I present to you, Ciaran Cuffe Green Party TD for Dun Laoghaire, and his self styled "TV" appearance at the launch of the WRC.

Isn't he the same Green Party phony who was discovered to have had shares in military weapons producers at the time he was Green Party Spokeperson on Nutrality?

Class bunch they are...

Judgement Day

Oil exploration companies too I believe, he's a class act!

Hungerford

My spies inform me that Green Party supporters were quite prominent at several stations along the line during the WRC opening day.

It's all about that Galway senator guy [the big bloke next to him in the video] and the next general election. I suspect that's why there are 22ks
going to the WRC next year.

dowlingm

Hungerford wrote: »

I suspect that's why there are 22ks
going to the WRC next year.

Say what?

I presume this is when the next batch arrive from Korea?

DWCommuter

dowlingm wrote: »

Say what?

I presume this is when the next batch arrive from Korea?

Apparently there was no provision made for the WRC in the final batch of 22Ks, but there is a plan afoot to lift sets from the Heuston commuter routes and send them west.

Still only a rumour though.

KevR

corktina wrote: »

plans are for a single playform at Oranmore so no passing loop i guess

Yeah and only 100 car parking spaces and no connecting bus services. It's typical West of Ireland. The potential of rail in the Galway area will never be realised, traffic in Galway will never improve (although they will stick in a few random unnecessary bus lanes in a failed attempt to help the situation).

In 3 years - 26,000 in each direction passing Oranmore on the M6 daily, only 100 parking spaces at Oranmore P&R. At most the P&R will remove 0.38% of cars from the Doughiska bottleneck even though there will be 28 trains passing through Oranmore anyway with plenty of spare capacity. :rolleyes:

And instead of building a station in Renmore (28 trains per day; 5,000 people in Renmore alone, thousands more in other nearby areas), they are building a station in Crusheen (10 trains; 700 people, corect me if I am wrong).

Victor

Off-topic drivel deleted.

RoundyMooney

I suppose the question is, in a happier economic clime, can they build on what they have, and improve the bottlenecks (for want of a better word)? The commuter station at Oranmore will presumably happen at some stage.

Or is the lobbying all directed at reopening the alignment up to Sligo?

I'm hypothesising here yes, but as someone with an interest in seeing the rail system sorted out, once and for all, on a nationwide basis (and yes, that includes Dublin).

Hungerford

DWCommuter wrote: »

Still only a rumour though.

It was confirmed at the WRC launch, according to the Irish Times.

Oliver1985

dowlingm wrote: »

My point exactly. This is how much it costs to do it right, and those who benefit should be forking out, either through developer levies, municipal bonds or property taxes/tax increment financing. The WRC was done on the cheap with no co-financing I've heard of. Even 5-10pc of the 106m budget could have made a difference in that the Oranmore design and PP could have been paid for or the Gort double section lengthened or a few of the more egregious curves straightened and dips raised.

Here in North America municipalities and states/provinces don't expect to get infrastructure for free and often they provide the majority of the funding. The political model in Ireland militates AGAINST local people being hit in the pocket and thus taking an interest in ensuring the financial viability of the project.

Not being smart but i dont think anyone really cares what goes on in North America!!

JHMEG

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Not being smart but i dont think anyone really cares what goes on in North America!!

He's drawing a comparison: If you don't have it in Ireland then FF will get it for you, and better again, they'll get some other eejit to pay for it and subsidise its running. In NA, you can have anything you want, as long as you pay for it. Seems fair to me.

dowlingm

JHMEG wrote: »

He's drawing a comparison: If you don't have it in Ireland then FF will get it for you, and better again, they'll get some other eejit to pay for it and subsidise its running. In NA, you can have anything you want, as long as you pay for it. Seems fair to me.

I'd say there's more of a balance, for sure. However, provinces/states and municipal governments tend to have a bit more power particularly in funding such as property tax, local sales taxes etc. and therefore local input into the project tends to be taken more seriously, since their involvement is usually in the 30-70% range. National and Provincial governments tend to want something for the money, such as "Buy America" or more policies in Canadian provinces looking for a % of the project to be assembled in Canada.

By comparison Irish Local Authorities are stuck with a much narrower set of funding tools (and some of those like developer levies are a dead duck for the next 5-10 years) and Regional Authorities mostly exist for EU funding purposes last I heard. That's why I think their ability to contribute will be limited and that's understandable. But even token amounts (1-10%) would indicate a willingness to have "skin in the game", and where direct subvention of a project is not possible those amounts could take the form of leasing station property to use as offices where they would need some anyway.

westtip

I am beginning to think all this analysis of how many grannies are travelling on the SJE on a daily basis is hilarious- No matter the outcome, we all know WOT will be positive about any number of people travelling on the SJE; and most of us with a brain know that the numbers quoted last week at the opening of 300,000 have a snowflakes chance in hell of happening. The most important numbers are:

How many paying passengers are using:

The "inter-city" (between towns) route of Limerick to Galway and vice versa.

How many commuters have been added to the route north of Ennis going to Galway and indeed south of Athenry how many new fare paying commuters have been added going to Limerick.

Total numbers using the line will have to exclude the extant numbers that already use the Ennis - Limerick commuter route (WOT will fold them all together), the extension north to Athenry has not changed their lives one iota.

And to a certain degree allowances will have to be made to exclude some of the numbers using the extant services from Athenry to Galway (a route that was used before the extension was opened) - Of course WOT will include all these and probably try to fold in the numbers sitting on a Dublin -Galway train for the section of their journey from Athenry to Galway.

Lies Lies Lies and dam statistics, we are going to have to be very wary of WOT get up to in massaging the truth.

How many people are now using the line between Athenry and Ennis?

I read an interesting post on one of the semingly growing number of WRC threads the other day would the money not have been better spent on upgrading the Dublin Galway line - well what good point. In particular in light of the growing coach competition on the M6. Too late now - but double tracking to Athlone, and increasing train speeds and frequencies, improving the road link along the Claremorris - Ennis north south access to make it quicker to get to this fast east - west rail route May, just may have been money better spent.

My thought for the day closed - now I have to copy paste this post to the WRC thread.

Life was much easier before the one and onlyl true thread was closed down by the thought police.

DWCommuter

HELLO! Remember this thread?

I was doing some research today and was looking through hard copies of emails from 2003/4. What struck me was the level of internal lobbying for the WRC that went on in IE. Considering many here think IE didn't want this line opened, I'd suggest, think again. From mere employees to management, they assisted the WOT campaign in a way that they would never assist any other existing passenger group. One particular "manager" based in Dublin regularly meets user groups from the GDA and trots out the usual lines of spin and defense to problems, while that same manager actively lobbied for the reopening of the WRC, despite major problems in his area of charge.

From my records it would also appear to be likely that WOT were not particularly responsible for the opening of Ennis - Athenry as it was apparently decided before they existed to introduce inter city services on this route. (and thats according to them) This would make sense as WOT were steadfast in their campaign that Claremorris/Tuam - Athenry would be phase one.

What a funny little railway and what a controversy it may cause.;)

westtip

derek get that slab of beer ready. I will meet you with the chill box.

DWCommuter

Your on!

Of course our tour is by scheduled service and not on the holy express.

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

HELLO! Remember this thread?


From my records it would also appear to be likely that WOT were not particularly responsible for the opening of Ennis - Athenry as it was apparently decided before they existed to introduce inter city services on this route. (and thats according to them) This would make sense as WOT were steadfast in their campaign that Claremorris/Tuam - Athenry would be phase one.

What a funny little railway and what a controversy it may cause.;)

Interesting Derek, of course now the only bit of the WRC has been built for which a slight rationale argument could ever have been made that is where the project will finish, If IE or the DOT can make a rationale argument in these stringent times for a rail line north of Athenry to Claremorris over far more pressing needs for projects where there is a true rail demand and indeed need, then the whole system truly has gone to pot. Sadly for WOT making claremorris the Clapham junction of the west of Ireland is now never likely to be achieved, so we need to move on and find a propre use for the alignment.

Judgement Day

westtip wrote: »

Interesting Derek, of course now the only bit of the WRC has been built for which a slight rationale argument could ever have been made that is where the project will finish, If IE or the DOT can make a rationale argument in these stringent times for a rail line north of Athenry to Claremorris over far more pressing needs for projects where there is a true rail demand and indeed need, then the whole system truly has gone to pot. Sadly for WOT making claremorris the Clapham junction of the west of Ireland is now never likely to be achieved, so we need to move on and find a propre use for the alignment.

An adventure trail for all lovers of the Famous Five, where we can all go for a spiffing adventure and have lashings of Ginger Beer?

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

An adventure trail for all lovers of the Famous Five, where we can all go for a spiffing adventure and have lashings of Ginger Beer?

Well apparently all is not lost JD, as The Western People that hybrid of Journalism here in the west, reports this week that the WRC will "transform the west" once again it is truly hilarious stuff:

I will see if I can find a link, it's the usual mind boggling upbeat optimism that gets reported as "news" when Colonel mustard (sic) makes a speech to rally the troops

Anyway JD I think better an adventure trail than a VERY LIGHTLY used rail line. The conversion of this route to a walking cycling trail (my bee in my bonnet) would actually contribute more to the local economies than five trains a day- and in fact this could have been done on the new line in parallel to the railway had the powers to be http://www.sustransconnect2.org.uk/resources/guidelines%206.pdf is the link to go to for the kind of vision or the nouse needed to think of it and take example of this kind of scheme in the uk - go to the sustrans web site to see what I mean. The .pdf on this link discusses the economic impact of cyclying tourism in the North East of England http://www.sustrans.org.uk/resources...-cycle-tourism,

If you can't get into the link then read these key findings, but there are many other documents on the sustrans website that spell out the blindingly obvious for what is needed on the WRC alignment - and something the west of ireland is actually crying out for - tourism infrastructure that is proven to work around the world.

Key findings

The parts of the four routes lying within the North East attracted 302,000 cycle trips in 2006
These National Cycle Network users contributed £9.6 million directly to the North East economy 2006. This represents a value of £13.4 million to the wider regional economy
216 jobs are supported in the immediate vicinity of the routes in the North East
In 2006 route users from out-of-region visiting the North East generated £5.9 million, supporting 95 full-time jobs

Just take in the figures and examine them then think about the WRC potential, the rail line will not create jobs nor attract one company to the region no matter what WOT say....the trailways will massively increase the sales of ginger beer and BTW attract a shed load of real fare paying tourists to the region

westtip

Press release and see photo in page six of yesterdays Irish Times - Tis only a matter of time before this idea is implemented on the WRC north of Athenry, I think the interesting thing is this was delivered within six months......

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=194

Minister Dempsey officially opens the Newport to Mulranny Greenway
16 - 04 - 2010
Back to Press Releases
New cycling and walking route for County Mayo

A new €1.6 million off-road cycling and walking route, was officially opened today by the Minister for Transport, Noel Dempsey TD. The 17.5km route was developed by Mayo County Council and is located along the line of the former Midland Great Western Railway line. The route was funded primarily by the Department of Transport, with additional monies made available through Fáilte Ireland and the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs.
The new route was developed in an effective partnership by Mayo County Council with local landowners and community groups and delivered within six months. It is an excellent example of Government Departments, agencies, local authority and the local community working together. In particular, the local landowners along the route of abandoned rail line deserve credit for their central role in the project. It is their vision and generosity that resulted in the delivery of this world-class cycle route.
There is further potential to develop the route from Mulranny to Achill Sound and from Newport to Westport, which would increase the route to 42km resulting in a route of international significance, that takes in some of the most scenic locations along the western Atlantic and linking the route to Westport town itself.
Speaking today Minister Dempsey said: “I believe that the Newport-Mulranny route offers a vision of the future. People from all over Ireland can make use of this world-class route and I am sure it will act as a catalyst for other routes to be developed all across the country. Not only will this remove the barriers in peoples’ minds when it comes to cycling, it will greatly increase the attractiveness of Ireland as a tourism destination, and create jobs in local economies.”

Ethna Murphy, head of Leisure Tourism at Fáilte Ireland welcomed the new route, saying: “The development of this quality cycling infrastructure will ensure that all in the region are in a position to capitalise on this lucrative market, in addition to adding value to the domestic holiday experience. Holidaymakers, engaging in active pursuits in Ireland, spent more than €1 billion in 2008 with almost a million overseas visitors engaging in activities such as walking, cycling, equestrian pursuits and water based activities. These were high value overseas tourists generating spend levels 40% higher than the average visitor.”
The Minister concluded by highlighting the important role of local landowners in facilitating the delivery of this world-class route. He said: “Without the commitment and goodwill of local landowners, this project would not have progressed beyond a line on a map. This goodwill means that one of the best leisure amenities in our country is right on your doorstep. It also means that many other people will get to experience the beautiful landscape of the area as they cycle and enjoy the new route.”

Sponge Bob

Great idea and only 40 years late IMO.

Ireland has lost the bicycle tourist market not that it was ever worth much as a market when we had it ....but still. We used to call them "Vazindoolins" in Galway because they always seemed to say "I Vaz In Doolin" ....NEVER in Clare only Doolin.

unit 1

westtip wrote: »

Press release and see photo in page six of yesterdays Irish Times - Tis only a matter of time before this idea is implemented on the WRC north of Athenry, I think the interesting thing is this was delivered within six months......
Here it is.
http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=194

Image0007.jpg

westtip

Whats the latest on headcounts for Ennis - Athenry? Anyone seen anyone on the SJE recently?

glineli

Any idea where the planned station in Oranmore is?

I was told yesterday its out the coast road a bit, just past an old garage on the right hand side. Not too sure how true that is

maninasia

corktina wrote: »

so obvious isnt it! what a waste!

100 million Euros to open a line that practically nobody will use. Pretty much everybody in the West has a car, even social welfarites have them.

Instead they could have turned this old slow line into a bike path for a few million Euros and it would have brought the equivalent revenue back within a year....

Corruption or stupidity?

Our man in Havana

That's chained officials for ya!

foggy_lad

westtip wrote: »

Press release and see photo in page six of yesterdays Irish Times - Tis only a matter of time before this idea is implemented on the WRC northsouth of Athenry, I think the interesting thing is this was delivered within six months......

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=194

fixed that for them:D:D:D