Ultra Street Fighter 4 Discussion Thread

Azza

Kanped wrote:

OK, so FADC isn't nearly as useful but the actual resource that you were going to spend on it is exactly as useful. You just use it for EX moves or super instead.

Its not. Firstly not all EX moves and Supers are good. Some characters like Vega will only use his EX moves because his Super is poor. Most charge characters EX moves don't have the ability crack open characters for big damage like DP FADC can.

Kanped wrote:

It's one less option but that's why character choice exists; they're just a given set of options, after all.

Capcom are asking for balance and system changes, why not give charge characters more if it doesn't break them.

Kanped

Hmmm... well, personally, I would rather see a buff to Vega's super etc. than a nerf to FADC. It's maybe worth trying but I'm skeptical. Given how good a lot of the Supers and EX moves are, the meter is very valuable and I think 2 bars is enough. For characters like Seth, I'd be more inclined to nerf his meter gain, and do it that way.

K.O.Kiki

They really need to look at older games and figure out why wake-up DP in ST/3S/CvS2 wasn't the over-powered monster in those as it is in SFIV.

PPC

Smaller reversal window, tighter inputs and no fadc?

Doctor DooM

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

They really need to look at older games and figure out why wake-up DP in ST/3S/CvS2 wasn't the over-powered monster in those as it is in SFIV.

I haven't heard anyone saying that since Marvel came out and the moaners had something new to complain about.

K.O.Kiki

PPC wrote: »

Smaller reversal window, tighter inputs and no fadc?

Well "no FADC" is a given obviously.

Tighter inputs? No, I don't buy that. Doing a DP wasn't some Herculean task only accomplished by a few chosen masters (except maybe in ST), but you would still have been advised to block even still.

So maybe it's the reversal window? That could be it, but in 3S (and maybe CvS2?) you'd have wake-up DPs being beaten by meaty normals.

Doctor DooM

Or it could not be a problem for the vast majority of people?

PPC

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Tighter inputs? No, I don't buy that. Doing a DP wasn't some Herculean task only accomplished by a few chosen masters (except maybe in ST), but you would still have been advised to block even still.

Its MUCH easier to mash out a dp in SF4 than those other games, its not that its harder to input them in other games, its just easier to input in SF4.

chopperbyrne

Did the invincible frames start from startup in those games or from frame three or so onwards?

Azza

Yeah they where invincible in ST from the start up.

Kanped

You just couldn't mash them and had to input them on the right frame (or, 6 frames if you used negative edge and piano). Like, I'm pretty sure that if you input a DP while you're grounded, it'll come out on the first available frame of your wake-up in SF4 but not in the older games.

Rob2D

Topanga poverty stream for anyone who's interested:

http://www.fengyunzhibo.com/tv/473583_1364644036810-562rqopn.htm

2gen

" Adon

Grade: S-

Pros: Jaguar Kicks control a lot of the screen due to their hit box. Very hard to punish because of how fast it comes out. Good pokes with st.HK, and cr.HK. Able to bully people with his back throw into his ambiguous cross up MK. Good DP, which allows him to continue the pressure. His walk speed is very fast and he has a good throw range. Both ultras are very reliable.

Cons: Very hard to deal with characters that are able to bully Adon in the corner such as Fei Long, M. Bison, etc. Health is below average.

Partner: Yun. "

from JWong

http://www.eventhubs.com/columns/2013/apr/29/step-your-game-chapter-131-super-street-fighter-4-arcade-edition-v2012-tier-list/

just thought i'd put this up since there was a Adon debate not too long ago...

The Hound

Sagat so low. Why is my character ASS!!!!

Rob2D

Looks like a tier list of players more so than the actual characters themselves....

Kanped

The Hound wrote: »

Sagat so low. Why is my character ASS!!!!

Because you've also got a really good top tier character at your disposal?

Fergus_

Sak's not top 5.

Nope.

ladnopoka

Fergus why do u keep posting here? this is not tekken thread.

Fergus_

oops sry

C0unter

Xiao Hai reflection on his match with Daigo "The Beast" Umehara Topanga Asia League translated by a guy in the AE forum:

比赛已经三天了 成绩下来了 虽然目标已经不可能了 却不会像以前那样懊恼 因为我知道差距在哪里 而且差距挺大 这差距就是态度
第一比赛打着打着我就发现这个问题的存在 因为我一直被打习惯 好像中拳以后的前跳全被梅园截下来 又好像一下轻拳慢后投或空箭被慢升龙 再就是 不是进攻的情况下就算能不能碰到都不出下中脚 我就知道一定是被彻底研究过了 所以也越打越急了 也输了 输得很彻底 因为被他们这种认真打击了 后来跟mago tokido一齐看比赛 才发现他们从头到尾一直再做笔记 看fundo打gamerbee 飞龙的哪一招打adon的哪一招是重点 次要才是去看结婚 而且连两个角色的距离在本子上都画出来了 真是深深的震撼了

"It's been three days already, the scores are out and even though the goal (of winning) is pretty much gone by now, yet I don't feel as frustrated and disappointed as before, because I now get where the difference lies and that difference is pretty huge, this difference is, A T T I T U D E.

From the first match, I immediate discovered this problem because I am constantly being punished for my play habit, like my jump after a medium punch always get Umeshoryued by Umehara or my light punch tick throw or cannon strike always get delayed Umeshoryued and then, if Umehara is not on the offense, no matter what, he won't use low forward. I suddenly realized that I have been studied, analyzed and totally downloaded. Knowing that, I panicked, I fought more and more impatient and then I lost, completely and utterly bodied.

It truly hit me hard when I realized how serious they (the Japanese top players) are taking this tournament. Afterward, I watched the fights with Mago and Tokido and saw how they were each taking notes, detailed notes. Like how Fuudo was approaching GamerBee's Rising Jaguar and how to approach GamerBee's normals, etc., and then finally, the match up (Xiao Hai used the term "wedding" here, as in "matching-up with your opponent in a marital sense" which I find really amusing)

Furthermore, the "distance" between two characters are diagrammed clearly on their notebooks, I am completely and utterly loss for words, I am deeply inspired and touched beyond words."

---

Here's Xiao Hai's take on facing Sakonoko:

"然后是对杀意龙 其实我也做很多功课 我试过基本最简单的正逆防set play 都是可以去防御的 但是万万没有想到我的功课只是sako的十分之一 sako妻子跟我翻译说从宣布有比赛到现在一周 sako一直在找我的录像 所有都看一次 把我一切觉得有可能做的写在本子上 然后对策加米 我试过前投和2hk后的jhk都是能防住 但是今天真的正逆都试过 都没防住 才知道这是不可防 而这不是什么两次前前然后前跳 而是走后或走前一小段前跳才能做出不可防 为此为了做到百分之九十五的成功率 几乎每天练几个小时同一招 从这里我真的输得心服口服
作为一个半职业玩家 从今天起我的态度也要像他们看齐 虽然这个游戏有很多不够灵活或者无解的东西 我不太喜欢 但是我很想证明自己 所以总有一天我会超越所谓的“五神”

"Facing E.Ryu, I actually did some homework myself, I tested myself on defending E.Ryu's cross ups and found out you can actually block them, but I never knew that I only did 10% of what Sako did on "homework". Sako's wife translated to me that after the tournament's announcement until the actual tournament, within this 1 week period, Sako had been looking for all my match videos. Sako watched them all at least once and wrote down everything that he can on a notebook on the match up against Cammy. You can sort of block the setup after a frontal throw and after a forward HK then Jump HK, but today, I tried blocking in both directions and I finally realized that it's an un-blockable. But this is not just a simple and easy un-blockable like walking backward a little or walk forward a bit and then jump attack for an un-blockable. In order to achieve 95% or more success rate on this particular un-blockable setup, Sako practiced every single day for hours on the same move. From that, I lost to Sako completely, both in skills and heart as a fighting game player.

As a semi-pro player, from this day onward, I will look up to them as a model for professionalism. Even though this game has many clunky areas or impossible situations, which I dislike, but I still want to prove myself, that one day I will definitely surpass the 5 gods of fighting games."

Interesting read on mindsets and approaches to learning.

Azza

So the trick to beating the 5 gods is before playing them, get Kiki to play a load of games and then upload them onto youtube under your own name!

K.O.Kiki

Azza wrote: »

So the trick to beating the 5 gods is before playing them, get Kiki to play a load of games and then upload them onto youtube under your own name!

LiamKK1982

Just to let you all know this is currently €7.50 on the PS Store. Unmissable price, I have the boxed copy but this price is too good to pass up. Also Tekken TT2 is €15 and VF5:FS Complete edition is €12

Rob2D

They're even cheaper if you're on PS Plus.

K.O.Kiki

Doctor DooM

Get owned, not-Guile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTN5UL9vZ1k

EDIT: I assume this works for other chars too? Like Ryu could beat Gief's U1 and do a fireball? That'd be sick in a tournament. lol

Azza

I don't think its a bug as such still, I think they put that in to prevent it auto correcting as a balance decision. It's probably why some combo's don't work on Guile after a cross up as well.

Good to know the criteria for auto correcting it though. Cool that there discovering new tech after this long. It won't get you out of true meaty cross up attacks or safe jumps but anything with a gap which most unblockable set ups have should be avoidable.

As for evading instant ultra's well its interesting to know, but if you have already in pre-jump frames before the flash your going to escape anyway because you can't be thrown out of them and if your doing a neutral jump you might as well do that for big damage punish on the way down. Guile could charge his super during the ultra flash and combo in off a nj.hp. Might be a bit more useful against raging demon supers that start up in 0 frames and move forward though.

Doctor DooM

Azza wrote: »

I don't think its a bug as such still, I think they put that in to prevent it auto correcting as a balance decision. It's probably why some combo's don't work on Guile after a cross up as well.

Good to know the criteria for auto correcting it though. Cool that there discovering new tech after this long. It won't get you out of true meaty cross up attacks or safe jumps but anything with a gap which most unblockable set ups have should be avoidable.

As for evading instant ultra's well its interesting to know, but if you have already in pre-jump frames before the flash your going to escape anyway because you can't be thrown out of them and if your doing a neutral jump you might as well do that for big damage punish on the way down. Guile could charge his super during the ultra flash and combo in off a nj.hp. Might be a bit more useful against raging demon supers that start up in 0 frames and move forward though.

From other stuff I've seen of Gilley's this will have its uses, like stopping a particular set up that Abels like to use and beating some of the unusual unblockables that work on Guile. In fact, he's also made a 45 minute video of UBs and cross up set ups on Guile and how he can beat or trade with them all (some require wake up st lp, I think cr mk will low profile under some too). Some work from the Guile who started it all for SF4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lato8FmMoIQ

(Wow- I remember being so impressed with all of this video and I've done the first 90 seconds or so in real matches and the rest in training room, more or less- funny how things change)

Chris IWS

LiamKK1982 wrote: »

Just to let you all know this is currently €7.50 on the PS Store. Unmissable price, I have the boxed copy but this price is too good to pass up. Also Tekken TT2 is €15 and VF5:FS Complete edition is €12

Picked up AE, had Super but never splashed the €15 for the update. 18 Gigs! Left the PS3 on overnight. Hopefully this isn't the month eircom decide to start charging for exceeding DL limits, even though I regularly go WAY over.

Ramza

These are the changes I'd give to Seth in 2013

- Make the first part of Shoryuken one hit for all versions. The 2 hit SRK FADC OS is very strong, I know it's -3 but still, I think it would be fair to make it one hit so people HAVE TO commit to the mixup after a one hit SRK, no OS for the FADC (or maybe change the frame advantage after a 2 hit SRK FADC, so that people would backdash instead, still, I think even changing the frame advantage still makes it unfair OS)

- Nerf SPD damage

- Nerf Tanden startup, makes it easier to react to (it's already fairly easy to react to on the heavier versions, but it's very abusable as of now IMO, make it so that jab tanden can still be used in combos. Tanden should only really be used as a meaty or against medium/long range turtlers, I think it's too good right now

-I'm thinking nerf legs damage, but I haven't damage numbers on hand right now so I can't say for sure

-Seth has some really ****ed up UBs and ambiguous crossups against a lot of the cast after an SPD/backthrow from a walljump, maybe increase walljump startup or something, it's really fast

All I can think of right now, probably stupid ideas but let me know what you guys think