National Postcodes to be introduced

Avada

I would reckon its Geodirectory data, I cant imagine theres another accurate database with all the house names.

It was dead handy when I used to do food deliveries, a lot of the houses in my area had names and no numbers (in Dublin)

SpaceTime

Yeah it's pretty unbelievable that houses in dense suburban parts of Cork, Dublin and other cities in Ireland have house names rather than numbers.

It seems that they just allowed a total free for all when it came to addressing.

Avada

SpaceTime wrote: »

Yeah it's pretty unbelievable that houses in dense suburban parts of Cork, Dublin and other cities in Ireland have house names rather than numbers.

It seems that they just allowed a total free for all when it came to addressing.

Completely! The industry I work in now is very dependent on addresses for deliveries etc. I would say over 50% of our customer base (a very large base) have non unique addresses. We will most definitely benefit from Eircode imo, in the sense that it will create a unique address reference

fricatus

SpaceTime wrote: »

Yeah it's pretty unbelievable that houses in dense suburban parts of Cork, Dublin and other cities in Ireland have house names rather than numbers.

It seems that they just allowed a total free for all when it came to addressing.

Not sure you're 100% correct there though. Looking at my area in east Waterford, I see the same proliferation of house names as the places you're talking about (who knew there were so many called "Shalom"?).

Those all have house numbers too, which are the real official address, so they'd look something like:

Johnny Johnson
Glór na Mara
251 Grange Park
Waterford

The only real problem there would be if the person started leaving out the number from their address, surely?

SpaceTime

Most seem to in Cork City anyway and many areas aren't numbered.

I live very close to Cork City Centre and very definitely in a major urban area. My street was developed from the early 1970s onwards when the original land owner sold sites and created a road with sites, underground power, gas, water, phone, cable TV etc.

Houses were all individually built and we've a situation where people dispute the house numbers and most don't have any.

The first house on the road physically call itself No. 1 but so does a house halfway up the road which was built first!

So we've two 1s several number 15s and the rest just use house names. One doesn't use either but just goes by their family name.

Chaos like that is the local authority's fault for failing to intervene and apply numbering.

my3cents

Do we have a party in a months time when this thread has its 5th birthday?

We still don't have any Postcodes will they ever happen?

hardCopy

Random_Name wrote: »

I would reckon its Geodirectory data, I cant imagine theres another accurate database with all the house names.

It was dead handy when I used to do food deliveries, a lot of the houses in my area had names and no numbers (in Dublin)

I wonder if google has just scanned all the plaques outside the houses from their streetview imagery

ozmo

SpaceTime wrote: »

Yeah it's pretty unbelievable that houses in dense suburban parts of Cork, Dublin and other cities in Ireland have house names rather than numbers.

It seems that they just allowed a total free for all when it came to addressing.

If you go to

http://maps.osi.ie

press search and enter your street or road (eg. "Swords road") you can see all the odd-ball house names for your area listed(well, top dozen or so)
Amazed so many houses named after premier football clubs.

tvc15

ozmo wrote: »

If you go to

http://maps.osi.ie

press search and enter your street or road (eg. "Swords road") you can see all the odd-ball house names for your area listed(well, top dozen or so)
Amazed so many houses named after premier football clubs.

There are over 50 'Old Trafford' buildings in the official database!

L1011

hardCopy wrote: »

I wonder if google has just scanned all the plaques outside the houses from their streetview imagery

It's geodirectory. They're slowly using recaptcha to fix street numbers by that method, but using human eyes rather than OCR

Curly Judge

I have no connection, either social or economical with Loc 8 or its creator but I did enjoy this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugD0MB66fsk

ukoda

Curly Judge wrote: »

I have no connection, either social or economical with Loc 8 or its creator but I did enjoy this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugD0MB66fsk

It's a good code. But what's he promoting now in this video I.e. "Use our service now and don't wait"
Is 4 years too late. This is what they shoulda done when they finalised the code 4 years ago. They should have been everywhere with it. But they didn't want to spend the money marketing it I presume? I don't know why. But it's a shame it was so low profile for so long

my3cents

ukoda wrote: »

It's a good code. But what's he promoting now in this video I.e. "Use out service now and don't wait"
Is 4 years too late. This is what they shoulda done when they finalised the code 4 years ago. They should have been everywhere with it. But they didn't want to spend the money marketing it I presume? I don't know why. But it's a shame it was so low profile for so long

Just sending a card to each address in the country telling them what their postcode is would be a good start.

ozmo

my3cents wrote: »

Just sending a card to each address in the country telling them what their postcode is would be a good start.

Not too late if they wanted- could easily beat the eircode mailshot... And good oportunity for him as a lot are expecting a postcode in the mail this year...

ukoda

ozmo wrote: »

Not too late if they wanted- could easily beat the eircode mailshot... And good oportunity for him as a lot are expecting a postcode in the mail this year...

no its too late now, they would only end up confusing the nation, they've missed their chance

tvc15

ozmo wrote: »

Not too late if they wanted- could easily beat the eircode mailshot... And good oportunity for him as a lot are expecting a postcode in the mail this year...

There are more than a million addresses in the country, assuming that they have a database of all of these including the geolocation, the price of printing and delivery would surely be over a million euros, not exactly worth it now

Red Nissan

ukoda wrote: »

no its too late now, they would only end up confusing the nation, they've missed their chance

I can agree with that too, but the majority of Irish are expecting something like Loc8Code to do exactly what it does.

The new postcodes won't be used as it won't do what the general public expect in this day and age.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

ukoda

Red Nissan wrote: »

The new postcodes won't be used as it won't do what the general public expect in this day and age.

what does the public expect in this day and age? they are expecting a postcode, they'll be given a postcode. they'll use it anytime they hear and anywhere they see "postcode"


this idea of it not being used isn't valid in my opinion

MBSnr

ukoda wrote: »

what does the public expect in this day and age? they are expecting a postcode, they'll be given a postcode. they'll use it anytime they hear and anywhere they see "postcode"

this idea of it not being used isn't valid in my opinion

Exactly my thoughts. Apart from the massive irony that the postcode notification is being posted out..., a good few people will start adopting it immediately and eventually that % will increase. Once that postcode box starts appearing on Irish Gov and company website forms and prompting you that it cannot be left empty before submission, we'll all be using it.... whether we like it or not - or whether we think it's actually totally fit for purpose.

If Google and Sat Nav companies adopt it then I'm happy. I could enter a postcode and be taken there by routed directions. I don't run a delivery business, nor am I a delivery van driver so the code format (non sequential etc) really doesn't matter to me or to the massive percentage of the people living here that will start using them.

Of course if Google and others don't adopt the postcodes then it's a completely different matter... :P

Sam Russell

The problems will start when the updates are required, or someone wants to check the postcode. Also, it will be useless if people make slight mistakes(as they will) as close will not be close - it will be somewhere else entirely.

It is the random codes that will kill this Eircode, and the lack of hierarchy in the code.

Unfortunately, €25m will go down the drain with it.

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

The problems will start when the updates are required, or someone wants to check the postcode. Also, it will be useless if people make slight mistakes(as they will) as close will not be close - it will be somewhere else entirely.

It is the random codes that will kill this Eircode, and the lack of hierarchy in the code.

Unfortunately, €25m will go down the drain with it.

can you explain this further, when you say an update is required? what are talking about here? do you mean to the database? but if you have access to the Database the updates are included as part of the access contract?

And if the postcode is typed incorrectly - I'm sure, if software is built properly, it will throw out an error as an address mismatch, The postcode will be used in addition to normal addresses, which can be used if the code is unreadable or incorrect.

and wouldn't we have the same problem with loc8 or any other code?

SpaceTime

The issue will be something like this

You're SuperSpeedyCouriers PLC and you've got a package for Mrs Joe Bloggs, Incognito House, Ballylost, Co. Tipperary XY6 PN39

Mrs Joe Bloggs is a bit dyslexic and actually typed XY6 PN59

You end up miles away from the address with no idea how to find it based on the code being approximately right.

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

can you explain this further, when you say an update is required? what are talking about here? do you mean to the database? but if you have access to the Database the updates are included as part of the access contract?

And if the postcode is typed incorrectly - I'm sure, if software is built properly, it will throw out an error as an address mismatch, The postcode will be used in addition to normal addresses, which can be used if the code is unreadable or incorrect.

and wouldn't we have the same problem with loc8 or any other code?

The mention of Access contracts says it all really. Money, money, money.

The problem with updates is the need for new postcodes for new houses or for new landmarks. The difficulty would then be the need for an update for satnavs, which are not free for most users, so satnavs will gradually atrophy without expensive updates.

No check digit is included in Eircode so small mistakes will cause the whole code to be rejected, or a wrong location, depending on the application software. Your suggestion of using the address as a check draws the response - 'why bother with the Eircode in the first place?'

Therefore any commercial or private user will need to be contracted to use the database to verify the address, at substantial cost (if my reading of their database imformation is correct). A simple zonal system would not need his. A 7 digit random alphanumeric code will, for me, and probably everyone else, be totaly forgettable, even for my own code.

I know nothing of Loc8, but I beleive it has a checkdigit.

ukoda

SpaceTime wrote: »

The issue will be something like this

You're SuperSpeedyCouriers PLC and you've got a package for Mrs Joe Bloggs, Incognito House, Ballylost, Co. Tipperary XY6 PN39

Mrs Joe Bloggs is a bit dyslexic and actually typed XY6 PN59

You end up miles away from the address with no idea how to find it based on the code being approximately right.

It's more likely the code will just not be a valid code at all and he'll have to call then to get the correct one

OR if the courier company's implement it correctly, it will pop out as an address mismatch and be handled and corrected before the courier even gets it

Even if we had a code that gave a general location, say a road, he'd still have to call to be sure? Because what if the first letter was wrong?

Any code will have these problems.

You're creating scenarios that would be difficult for any postcode and trying to associate it to an eircode fault

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

The mention of Access contracts says it all really. Money, money, money.

Well that's the real issue here isn't it. It's because there's a licensing fee. So suddenly because they have to pay for it... The haulage companies are up in arms calling it "useless" what they really mean is "We want it free"??

The code will work fine for everyone if they pay for the database. So let's be real here:

The code is fine
The licensing fee is not

Impetus

Sam Russell wrote: »

The mention of Access contracts says it all really. Money, money, money.

The problem with updates is the need for new postcodes for new houses or for new landmarks. The difficulty would then be the need for an update for satnavs, which are not free for most users, so satnavs will gradually atrophy without expensive updates.

No check digit is included in Eircode so small mistakes will cause the whole code to be rejected, or a wrong location, depending on the application software. Your suggestion of using the address as a check draws the response - 'why bother with the Eircode in the first place?'

Therefore any commercial or private user will need to be contracted to use the database to verify the address, at substantial cost (if my reading of their database imformation is correct). A simple zonal system would not need his. A 7 digit random alphanumeric code will, for me, and probably everyone else, be totaly forgettable, even for my own code.

I know nothing of Loc8, but I beleive it has a checkdigit.

It is money, money, money and it has not fixed the problem (of 40+% of buildings not having normal, everyday, street/road addresses – as have existed in Irish urban areas, and most of the rest of Europe for centuries).

GPS devices, and the cost of updating them is like water meters. They add no value to the economy – they force people to spend money on imported (GPS and water metering devices). I have no problem with water charges – but I do have a big problem with a billion or so being spent on imported water meters and their installation. Instead they could have introduced a domestic water charge based on the number of bedrooms or number of people in a household. Use the proceeds to pay for fixing the public mains that is leaking some 70% of the water produced every day – the highest level of wasted water in Europe. Ditto for rural and other buildings that have no specific road and house number address – use the money on giving them a proper road address. The company contracted to do this work could still sell databases of all the road data to business and gov users who had a need for same.

No postcode system in the world that I know of uses check digits. You don’t need a check digit with a short code. Same as you don’t need a check digit for each house number.

Check digits are fine for 16 digit payment card numbers and IBANs etc. But the benefit of the check function exceeds the cost in terms of longer numbers and more difficult comprehension issues for the man in the street.

Check digits on a postcode (a la the proposed Eircode) would force one further down Hitler Street.

PS If you are thinking of buying a vacuum cleaner but it now. The EU is banning vacuum cleaners that do a good job of cleaning from 1 Sep because they use too much electricity. Yet another example of the unaccountable police state being allowed to trample on people's freedom of choice and liberty.

SpaceTime

PS: Totally off topic but, beware of British tabloids and their reading of EU directives.

What the EU is doing is simply breaking the marketing link between input wattage and perception of performance. The labelling will measure the suction and dust collecting capabilities of vacuum cleaners i.e. what they do rather than the power input in Watts (how much electricity they use). They did pretty extensive research and actually show that a significant % of low-end machines use 2000W+ yet perform quite poorly. Basically you're usually paying for a badly designed, faster rotating, smaller fan and a noisy DC motor. If you look at the performance of some of the eco-orietnted models from higher end brands, they pull through more air per watt used through better fan blade design, and better filtration design. Basically, they're trying to ditch the era of €50 vacuum cleaners that use 2kW, make loads of noise and don't actually do much in terms of sucking up dust.

Cutting down to 900W in 2017 is probably totally unrealistic though. 1600W is sensible enough.

Bear in mind that the Nilfisks of the 1980s only used 700W and could still lift up the carpet they were so powerful. It's all about filter design, fan design and airflow. The easy way to achieve high suction is to just jam in an over-rated noisy motor. The clever way is to design your filters and suction systems right.

No Dyson for example breeches the 1600W limit (already).
900W is taking the ... though. They'll probably have to drop that idea as the manufacturers and a lot of other people are up in arms about it.

The labelling makes sense, but the arbitrary wattage limit doesn't really. They should give the info and let the customers decide.

ozmo

ukoda wrote: »

The code is fine
The licensing fee is not

My issue is with it
1.being designed for online use only - I like to use offline navigation aids

2.being specific to my house with no way to generalise it to my locality when i want

3.not being able generate a code for landmarks and non letterbox locations

And all the other reasons posted- no error checking, random order, not usable for finding locating a house without the premuium subscription to the closed lookup database. Etc etc.

SpaceTime

Could we unofficially overlay it with Loc8 for non postcode locations ?