National Postcodes to be introduced

Mike1961

yuloni wrote: »

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Where exactly on Pearse Street?
It is after all one of the longest streets in Dublin

MBSnr

Mike1961 wrote: »

Where exactly on Pearse Street?
It is after all one of the longest streets in Dublin

What we need is some sort of code that could uniquely identify the building...

TheBustedFlush

MBSnr wrote: »

What we need is some sort of code that could uniquely identify the building...

The address is: 47-49 Pearse Street

So you might have:

D02 E4K3 - eircode
OR
L2Q HD6N - gocode
OR
NN5-27-YY7 - loc8code

SpaceTime

Loc8 still has a very useful purpose for everything that isn't a postal address.

yuloni

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TheBustedFlush

yuloni wrote: »

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Sorry I don't have any kind of access lol - it was a made-up example ya big eejit, which is why I said "you might have...". I agree you're right - the S/5 look very similar when you glance at it as you say - and no the hyphens probably aren't necessary either, spaces would be simpler but it's not critical.

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

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The UK seem to do ok with their postcodes on websites and can handle spaces just fine, lets not going creating another mythical problem with eircodes design

ManAboutCouch

About the GIS Ireland conference, there is going to be a debate / Q&A with representatives from Eircode, Loc8code and others in the afternoon.

Bring your own popcorn, but lunch is included.

larchill

yuloni wrote: »

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I don't get: "Do you mean NN5-27-YY7 ..." when I click NNS-27-YY7. This highlights the need not to use certain numbers & letters. eg: not using O as it can be confused with 0, I with 1, etc. A weakness in Loc8? It doesn't seem to take this into account? eircode will omit some letters for this reason

Curly Judge

yuloni wrote: »

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I wonder if all the protagonists will show up?
It'll be very bad form if some don't.

larchill

Curly Judge wrote: »

I wonder if all the protagonists will show up?
It'll be very bad form if some don't.

Ah the fully exposed glare of publicity will be a different thing to the quiet solitude of Boards

ukoda

larchill wrote: »

Ah the fully exposed glare of publicity will be a different thing to the quiet solitude of Boards

well they are certainly very active here. for the THRID time I've received an abusive message about this thread from a new account set up.

what cowards, they accuse me of being a eircode troll and call me stupid.

I have absolutely no affiliation to eircode AT ALL, nor am i stupid. I'm just not afraid to call bull**** on some of the stuff posted here.

I've reported the PM.

yuloni

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a65b2cd

Another Parliamentary Question - from 7th October

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
574. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources in view of the serious reservations of many potential users of the proposed post code and in view of its almost complete irrevocability once introduced, if he will consider postponing its introduction pending an examination of the extent to which it meets the criteria for a national post code as defined by the Joint Oireachtas Communications Committee in 2010; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37954/14]

REPLY
Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)

The Government is fully committed to introducing Eircodes. On 8 October 2013, the Government approved the appointment of Capita Business Support Services Ireland Limited as the company which will develop, roll-out and operate the National Postcode System. During the tender process for the project, the consultants retained by the Department evaluated a range of options for the postcode structure, including the recommendations contained in the report of the Joint Oireachtas Committee. After detailed consideration an approach using a unique identifier was recommended to Government by the then Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. The postcode design and brand ‘Eircode’ was approved by Government in April this year.

There has been widespread support from both public sector bodies and private businesses with particular interest from the retail and financial industries for the introduction of postcodes nationally. In addition, the emergency services see the introduction of postcodes as facilitating the speedier deployment of their services. An Post, who were actively involved in the design process, and who are fully committed to using Eircodes, are currently updating their mail sortation systems to fully integrate with Eircodes. Eircodes will facilitate improved efficiencies and quality improvements in the mails sector and provide a stimulus to mail volumes through improved marketing capabilities. The consortium developing the system has also undertaken a significant programme of business engagement with both private and public stakeholders.

Concerns have been expressed by a number of logistics bodies in connection with the Eircode, most specifically in relation to the non sequential nature of Eircodes. Capita, the Postcode Management Licence Holder, has met with a number of these bodies to discuss these concerns and to, inter alia, explain that a sequential postcode structure is not feasible or necessary.

Eircode is expected to be launched by the middle of next year.

recedite

Capita, the Postcode Management Licence Holder, has met with a number of these bodies to discuss these concerns and to, inter alia, explain that a sequential postcode structure is not feasible..

That must have taken some amount of explaining alright. And copious amounts of free alcohol.

yuloni

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a65b2cd

yuloni wrote: »

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I can see the problem here. They get an emergency call that a house is on fire and then a second call that another house is on fire and they don't realise when they get there that the two houses are beside each other How do the callers even know their Eircodes and have the calmness of mind to use them rather than their address! Couldn't find his concerns about Eircodes on the IFESA website? Is the health sector part of the firemen's association now? Nice piece in that article about LOC8 codes.

yuloni

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my3cents

Last time I called the fire service out I gave directions, as a passerby I didn't have a clue what address I was reporting was on fire. In many cases I doubt those reporting a fire know the address of the place on fire let alone the postcode.

ozmo

my3cents wrote: »

Last time I called the fire service out I gave directions, as a passerby I didn't have a clue what address I was reporting was on fire. In many cases I doubt those reporting a fire know the address of the place on fire let alone the postcode.

You could read it off the road sign - oh wait this is Eircode you cant like in other countries.
Back to using address or "first turn past the pub" directions that they are so fond of correctly reminding us are unsuitable.

my3cents

ozmo wrote: »

You could read it off the road sign - oh wait this is Eircode you cant like in other countries.
Back to using address or "first turn past the pub" directions that they are so fond of correctly reminding us are unsuitable.

It was an emergency and you are suggesting I didn't report it because I didn't know whatever location code you support and had no way of looking it up?

ozmo

my3cents wrote: »

It was an emergency and you are suggesting I didn't report it because I didn't know whatever location code you support and had no way of looking it up?

What?
Im saying if you see someone in need- you will not be able report it by postcode as you will have no way of knowing the postcode- unlike in say UK where its is on the signpost- or well known.

And if you did happen to know the eircode, due to the lack of a checkdigit, it wouldnt be a good idea use it anyway as it will not be easy to call down a phone line and be sure they dont direct the services to a place kilometers away.

Im saying you still need use addreas- which makes eircode useless for this purpose.

tvc15

ozmo wrote: »

And if you did happen to know the eircode, due to the lack of a checkdigit, it wouldnt be a good idea use it anyway as it will not be easy to call down a phone line and be sure they dont direct the services to a place kilometers away.

Well this bit is nonsense, here's the conversation :

-I need an ambulance to G45 VY12

-OK, are you on Weir Road, Tuam in Galway?

-Yes


I'm not saying it is better than loc8 but a check digit is not going to save lives

ozmo

tvc15 wrote: »

Well this bit is nonsense, here's the conversation :

-I need an ambulance to G45 VY12

-OK, are you on Weir Road, Tuam in Galway?

There is a chain of events-

so what you are saying is due to the poor design of the code - a lack of it being a fault tolerant code - there exists a requirement of a manual verbal or otherwise check with the previous stage- caller to operator to data entry and onto getting it to the people in the field. Every stage needing to verify they got the code correct by refering to the address( which as we know doesnt exist always)

Not every emergency service (any?) will be transmitting electronically from the time the call is made to the person looking for the house.

Random codes with no checkdigit? Who thought that would be a good idea?

ukoda

ozmo wrote: »

There is a chain of events-

so what you are saying is due to the poor design of the code - a lack of it being a fault tolerant code - there exists a requirement of a manual verbal or otherwise check with the previous stage- caller to operator to data entry and onto getting it to the people in the field. Every stage needing to verify they got the code correct by refering to the address( which as we know doesnt exist always)

Not every emergency service (any?) will be transmitting electronically from the time the call is made to the person looking for the house.

Random codes with no checkdigit? Who thought that would be a good idea?

There isnt an emergency service in the world that will send a response to someone who only gives a postcode. they will ALWAYS check the address. stop being ridiculous.

tvc15

ozmo wrote: »

There is a chain of events-

so what you are saying is due to the poor design of the code - a lack of it being a fault tolerant code - there exists a requirement of a manual verbal or otherwise check with the previous stage- caller to operator to data entry and onto getting it to the people in the field. Every stage needing to verify they got the code correct by refering to the address( which as we know doesnt exist always)

Not every emergency service (any?) will be transmitting electronically from the time the call is made to the person looking for the house.

Random codes with no checkdigit? Who thought that would be a good idea?

So how would the conversation using loc8 be different?

ozmo

ukoda wrote: »

There isnt an emergency service in the world that will send a response to someone who only gives a postcode.

Of course they will respond to non precise address as best they can - its an emergency service and they do their best to help.

But there is non-precise (Irish Address) and there is unreliable like Eircode - I can understand why they the Emergency services are saying what they are about Eircode.

Even UK Postcodes are not as random as they look and can be verified somewhat using whats called a RegEx expression without the need for Internet, external database or a subscription to a service.

tvc15

ozmo wrote: »

Even UK Postcodes are not as random as they look and can be verified somewhat using whats called a RegEx expression without the need for Internet, external database or a subscription to a service.

Again you're speaking nonsense! Do you know what a regex is? You can use it to verify Eircodes and loc8 codes! Its a function used by most programing languages to select text that fits a certain pattern like nearly all text will

Now the fact that you know it exists means you are either being willfully ignorant in an attempt to influence casual readers or you are being fed this information from somewhere else.

You also skipped past the rebuttals to your hysterical rant about emergency services. I like loc8 codes and think they are better in most ways compared to the Eircode (despite being closed source) but your fanaticism against the postcode is strangely malicious

ozmo

tvc15 wrote: »

Again you're speaking nonsense! Do you know what a regex is?

You also skipped past the rebuttals about emergency services. I like loc8 codes and think they are better in most ways compared to the Eircode (despite being closed source) but your fanaticism against the postcode is strangely malicious

I have called emergency services in the past - ambulances and fire services - and a postcode would have been better than having to describe where I am than "you know the five lamps" kind of directions.
I also have spoken to Ambulance driver friends about it.

Yes - I have used RegEx to verify UK post codes in the past for some sites I made- it helps because the UK has a pattern - its not complete but its understandable being an older system. I didn't expect our new Irish postcodes would be worse.
(one of many such expressions - there used to be an official one on their gov.co.uk site but link is broken now).
A RegEx crafted for Eircode wont give much benefit as they have said there is no pattern further than the first three digits and it length.

Loc8 and OpenPostcode have a lot going for it - it has a pattern and check digit to determine if its incomplete - among other features.
I like a lot of the features of Loc8, but I see the open but licensed encoding/decoding currently in place being an issue - however it was offered to the Government so might have been made open - who knows.

I was expecting Eircode that took so long to develop - to use some of the features of modern codes such as these - like inbuilt verification - the ability to locate a non postbox - offline usage without database - variable precision for protecting your security - you know, everything they were originally asked to produce.

What I see though is just a lazy, easiest possible solution to implement. Something to ensure current Geodirectory licencing is protected, yet with maximum revenue return possible into the mix. Nothing clever or smart with this code for the ordinary users of the system.