National Postcodes to be introduced

SpaceTime

Sam Russell wrote: »

You are assuming everyone has a smart phone and there is adequate coverage.

The first project should have been to solve the lack of precise addresses in rural Ireland - that has not been done.

The actual design chosen, from the little we know about it, is flawed in many ways. It is a pity there has not been public discussion about the design.

In my opinion, a numeric post code has overwhelming advantages, and following the phone numbering system also has advantages. A 5 digit code that gets down to 100 or so addresses would be good to start with, and leave the precise code for Government use, and let them pay for the maintenance of it.

Everyone doesn't have a smartphone but Ireland has one of the highest penetrations of smartphones in the world. Most people have one and in a few years it's likely that everyone will.

We have more mobile phones than people.

They don't exclusively rely on smarphones for rescues in Iceland but it's a major help.

You can't just always assume the lowest common denominator of technology either.

The app can send information via SMS so it doesn't always require data coverage. All it does is transmit your GPS coordinates via SMS or EDGE, 3G, 4G if that's available.

You might as well make use of technology when it's available.

For a 112 call from the side of a road it's very very useful to be able to send your precise location rather than some vague notion.

This kind of thing doesn't need any codes at all. It's pure GPS.

Iceland's postal code system (3 digit codes) would be next to useless for locating someome and they just signpost people's first names or house names in rural areas. There didn't seem to be any road names, just road numbers similar to Ireland.

Sign would literally say Björk

---

> 1km

larchill

SpaceTime wrote: »

Sign would literally say Björk

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> 1km

@ least they have some sort of indicator where people are

my3cents

larchill wrote: »

@ least they have some sort of indicator where people are

Try that in Ireland and someone would turn the sign around :rolleyes:

L1011

my3cents wrote: »

Try that in Ireland and someone would turn the sign around :rolleyes:

Which is why you mount signs on two poles.

recedite

Curly Judge wrote: »

So....effectively, they will be pronouncing on their own work and competence.
Can anyone give a guess at what conclusion they will come to?

A bit like the guy who built the Priory Hall apartments, and then self-certified that they complied with all the building regulations. What could possibly go wrong...

ukoda

Curly Judge wrote: »

At the meeting yesterday on Pearse St. one of the interesting little snippet let slip by John Duggan, who spoke for Eircode, was that P.A Consultants had got the gig to provide oversight to the implementation of the postcode contract.
This was supposed to go for tender but they appear to have been appointed without any tender process being entered into.
Add to that the fact that PA Consultants and their senior staff have been head neck and heels involved in fashioning the whole structure and set up of the post code project.
So....effectively, they will be pronouncing on their own work and competence.
Can anyone give a guess at what conclusion they will come to?

Anything else worth mentioning from that meeting?

Bray Head

Sam Russell wrote: »

The first project should have been to solve the lack of precise addresses in rural Ireland - that has not been done.

This point has been thrown about on this thread a lot. It is both relevant and irrelevant!

First, it is irrelevant as any type of postCODE chosen would not solve this problem.

Second, it IS relevant, as it illustrates what eircode will NOT attempt to do. It is not trying to replace or augment the existing address system in rural Ireland which we can all agree is a mess. That was a lost cause 100 years ago even. Setting up a sensible address system from scratch would be nice but it would be HUGELY controversial, likely to encounter mass resistance from those who like their existing "address" thank-you-very-much and would be VASTLY more expensive.

Overlaying this messy address system with a system of unique codes makes sense. Whether is is a Loc8-type or an eircode-type is a matter largely of taste. Largely, I prefer the latter. But arguing that Ireland needs a reformed address system is a completely different issue - perhaps for a different thread even!

PS: Apologies for the caps, I don't seem to be able to use italics, etc, as a sub-50 post user.

Bray Head

Bray Head wrote: »

PS: Apologies for the caps, I don't seem to be able to use italics, etc, as a sub-50 post user.

Just type at the start and at the end (without the spaces)


that should work.

Sheldons Brain

Bray Head wrote: »

Overlaying this messy address system with a system of unique codes makes sense. Whether is is a Loc8-type or an eircode-type is a matter largely of taste. Largely, I prefer the latter. But arguing that Ireland needs a reformed address system is a completely different issue - perhaps for a different thread even!

I don't need an improved address, like I don't need a new name. But I can use a bank a/c number or PRSI number where appropriate without changing my name. This is the role of postcodes.

SpaceTime

my3cents wrote: »

Try that in Ireland and someone would turn the sign around :rolleyes:

They've developed this amazing Icelandic technology which Irish local authorities are still investigating. It's called 'the bolt'

There are holes on the pole and the sign is affixed to it by magic in such a way that it cannot be easily turned.

They've also got the incredible grooved signpost a technology so advanced it would be difficult to explain to nonscientific types.

Remarkable what can be done with science!

Relying on elves to guard the signs simply didn't work.

TheBustedFlush

SpaceTime wrote: »

They've developed this amazing Icelandic technology which Irish local authorities are still investigating. It's called 'the bolt'

There are holes on the pole and the sign is affixed to it by magic in such a way that it cannot be easily turned.

Remarkable what can be done with science!

Relying on elves to guard the signs simply didn't work.

Ah but the fellas who puts the hole in the pole, forgot about the hole in the ground. Now they just turn the pole around.

Bray Head

Article in today's Irish Times from Barry O'Halloran. As a 'new user' I cannot be trusted to post the link apparently so would appreciate if someone else would.

Not too much new that intrepid followers of this thread won't be familar with.

"At some point next year, all 2.2 million individual addresses in the Republic will be assigned their own seven-digit post code – to be known as an Eircode – that will identify them from all others in the State.
It has been a long time coming. According to Liam Duggan, chief executive of Eircode, the Capita subsidiary the State is paying between €15 million and €16 million to introduce and apply the system"

I thought this was interesting though:

"Over the last 18 months, it has been designing the code and building a database of addresses to go with it, drawing on 100 million different entries in 20 different public-sector databases.

And the familiar for and against:

The National Ambulance Service says that it welcomes the introduction of a proposed postcode system “as it will enable address verification, thereby assisting services in reaching patients in a timely manner”.
However, not everyone agrees, John Kidd, national chairman of the Irish Fire and Emergency Services Association, a trade union with 1,200 members, says it will not be any use for callouts for accidents on roads or anywhere other than inside buildings. Duggan responds by pointing out the system is meant to identify addresses, not points on roads or motorways.

SpaceTime

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

Ah but the fellas who puts the hole in the pole, forgot about the hole in the ground. Now they just turn the pole around.

No they've this other thing called "the foundation" amazing technology that prevents rotation of poles.

Most places don't just stick a sign post into a hole. Even a light breeze would turn it.

ukoda

Bray Head wrote: »

Article in today's Irish Times from Barry O'Halloran. As a 'new user' I cannot be trusted to post the link apparently so would appreciate if someone else would.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/retail-and-services/living-by-numbers-how-eircode-system-pinpoints-your-address-1.1976062

SpaceTime

Nice article but still an oddly self-restricted system that's not leveraging either GPS or human ability to decipher readable, well designed codes

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/retail-and-services/living-by-numbers-how-eircode-system-pinpoints-your-address-1.1976062

What a load of XXXXXXXX

It is a bad description of a bad system. The article reads like it came from a press release from Eircode, with a few added touches for colur. No hard details, like the cost of access to the database, which is essential for its use.

Nor does it suggest that fixing the basic problem of non-unique addresses that can be read by a human without the need for access to a database. It is like giving out PPS numbers to the guys that fix water leaks. Hang on .......

tvc15

ukoda wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/retail-and-services/living-by-numbers-how-eircode-system-pinpoints-your-address-1.1976062

Ha! That article is heavily commented on by a Gary Delaney with over half of all comments on the article doing nothing but badmouthing Eircode and promoting loc8! So which one of you guys is Gary Delaney?

my3cents

tvc15 wrote: »

Ha! That article is heavily commented on by a Gary Delaney with over half of all comments on the article doing nothing but badmouthing Eircode and promoting loc8! So which one of you guys is Gary Delaney?

Probably the same guy that signs up to new accounts here so he can send anonymous PM's berating people who disagree with him.

Geogregor

I found this bit particularly interesting:

“That is a recipe for chaos,” he argues. Duggan points out that the Republic could be divided into billions of co-ordinates, while there are just 2.2 million addresses. “If you have a big enough house you could have five GPS co-ordinates,” he says. Ultimately, he maintains that there would still have to be a database identifying the addresses at each co-ordinate.

Is that true?

my3cents

Geogregor wrote: »

I found this bit particularly interesting:


Is that true?

If you can only have one postcode for a residence then you need a database to indicate which of the possible positional codes is used.

ukoda

And this bit really shows up the the wild claims of the eircode haters on this thread

Reports claim it will be looking for a minimum price of €5,000. In fact, minimum subscriptions are likely to be less than €200, while there will be a certain amount of free access on its website. The company has submitted its price plans to the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, and is waiting for that to be signed off.

my3cents

my3cents wrote: »

If you can only have one postcode for a residence then you need a database to indicate which of the possible positional codes is used.

I would imagine that the one at the driveway or front door would make the most sense.

I know that with Loc8 some people use a different code for the rear entrance when expecting deliveries.

ukoda

And I'm actually cringing at Gary Delanys comments on the article.

tvc15

ukoda wrote: »

And I'm actually cringing at Gary Delanys comments on the article.

Lets see will he own up to posting in this thread, theres no way ssomeone like that hasn't found the enormous boards tgread on postcodes and not chipped in!

my3cents

ukoda wrote: »

And I'm actually cringing at Gary Delanys comments on the article.

Think this says it all

GaryDelaney
@ChrisSheldrick no recommendation for Lat/longs from me. I'm the inventor of Loc8 Code ...

SpaceTime

The system's not ideal but, I still think it's better than the short poems we have for addresses at the moment.

I think a lot of us probably just want to avoid that ridiculous conversation:

"No, really, there's no zip/post code!"
"Really?"
"No we don't have them in Ireland"
"Are you sure?'
"Yes!"
"I need a postcode for the delivery"
"Oh, OK just use Cork 02100"

At this stage I just want SOMETHING rolled out.

A European or American style 5 digit code would be great but numbering houses and naming roads would be a monumental struggle against all sorts of local political and snobbery nonsense.

This is a total cludge of a system but, it has some hope od vaguely working for some things.

Loc8 or some modified version of it would have been handier.

Is there any way Loc8 and Eircode could be integrated?

Like using a version of Loc8 for all non-letterbox addresses and having Loc8's mapping capable of recognising an eircode? Maybe integrate the eircode first 3 digits into Loc8?

Carawaystick

ukoda wrote: »

And this bit really shows up the the wild claims of the eircode haters on this thread

IrishTimes wrote:

Reports claim it will be looking for a minimum price of €5,000. In fact, minimum subscriptions are likely to be less than €200, while there will be a certain amount of free access on its website. The company has submitted its price plans to the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, and is waiting for that to be signed off.

Likely?
A completely unattributed statement there, I wouldn't bet the farm on it just yet.
How can they be starting in the spring and have no idea of prices and winter starting on Saturday...

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

Likely?
A completely unattributed statement there, I wouldn't bet the farm on it just yet.
How can they be starting in the spring and have no idea of prices and winter starting on Saturday...

They have worked out the prices, they are currently under review by the DCENR, once approved they will publish them

so as they already have their pricing structure done, its unlikely they would put a figure out in the public thats totally off the mark

did you just read the word likely in the quote and ignore the rest of the words??

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

They have worked out the prices, they are currently under review by the DCENR, once approved they will publish them

so as they already have their pricing structure done, its unlikely they would put a figure out in the public thats totally off the mark

did you just read the word likely in the quote and ignore the rest of the words??

Think you're right on that one. "Likely" is a classic journalist phrase like "it is understood", "sources say", "someone close to", etc, etc.

In other words, that's what it's going to be, (assuming approval), but they can't officially say so. €5k was never a minimum price for a copy of the database - €200 sounds much more likely as a starting cost for a single business user. They've also said there'll be a special rate for charities and for research/academic institutions.

ukoda

http://freepostcodelottery.ie

Well one company is quick off the mark!!

I suspect we'll see a lot of this stuff starts to come out soon as the postcode is launched