National Postcodes to be introduced

ukoda

ozmo wrote: »

So - small update in IT today.

Wonder what kind of law they can be thinking for the data protection issue? Maybe have an optout ex-directory option?

Interesting also the IT note the concern over the lack of its usefulness for geolocation(ie. gps devices etc)....




http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/minister-confident-new-postcode-system-will-be-introduced-early-next-year-1.1928738

bit of a non story though - the Irish Times are just referencing historical stuff thats already been discussed here, they simply say "there have been claims" we already new that, doesn't mean they are valid claims, not much new here

In regards the law change - i suspect its to do with companies not being allowed store the code and use it for marketing unless they have consent

my3cents

ukoda wrote: »

bit of a non story though - the Irish Times are just referencing historical stuff thats already been discussed here, they simply say "there have been claims" we already new that, doesn't mean they are valid claims, not much new here

In regards the law change - i suspect its to do with companies not being allowed store the code and use it for marketing unless they have consent

Probably to stop someone compiling their own database of all the codes and selling it cheaper than the official db?

I wonder how long it will be before I can download a good chunk of the database from a torrent site?

ukoda

my3cents wrote: »

Probably to stop someone compiling their own database of all the codes and selling it cheaper than the official db?

I wonder how long it will be before I can download a good chunk of the database from a torrent site?

thats a very good point actually! and it will be impossible to stop really

if we are able to torrent it - will someone send it on to Garmin and TomTom? rumour has it they can't afford it :P

Curly Judge

http://technology.ie/new-post-code-system-another-fiasco

Another illuminative report!
If and when this goes belly-up the people involved will have nowhere to hide.
They can't say they weren't warned

SpaceTime

It's like an episode of Yes Minister.
It would be funny if it didn't involve a vast waste of public money.

They seem determined to drive this system through no matter how pointless it might be.

my3cents

Curly Judge wrote: »

http://technology.ie/new-post-code-system-another-fiasco

Another illuminative report!
If and when this goes belly-up the people involved will have nowhere to hide.
They can't say they weren't warned

Another sour grapes Loc8 story, I doubt it will be the last. No new information we already knew that Loc8 had been excluded, tough luck bad decision but too late to change it now.

Curly Judge

my3cents wrote: »

Another sour grapes Loc8 story, I doubt it will be the last. No new information we already knew that Loc8 had been excluded, tough luck bad decision but too late to change it now.

You are obviously very easily pleased.
I would love to sell you my second hand car!

my3cents

Curly Judge wrote: »

You are obviously very easily pleased.
I would love to sell you my second hand car!

Its taken this long to get something that might not be ideal but I don't see any point in dragging it out even further.

tvc15

my3cents wrote: »

Its taken this long to get something that might not be ideal but I don't see any point in dragging it out even further.

But what about all of >my< ideas that weren't implemented? We have to go back to the drawing board or it will be a disaster! Have you not heard what the independent experts from loc8, the trucking industry and their representatives on boards have had to say? Apparently it will be a massive failure!

ukoda

tvc15 wrote: »

But what about all of >my< ideas that weren't implemented? We have to go back to the drawing board or it will be a disaster! Have you not heard what the independent experts from loc8, the trucking industry and their representatives on boards have had to say? Apparently it will be a massive failure!

you could hardly call Loc8 "independant" they have a vested interest in rubbishing Eircode.

The main gripe the trucking industry have is that they've to pay for it (boohoo), the other issues they have are pretty invalid.

Sam Russell

The main gripe about Eirecode is that it is a poorly thought out system that will fail. However, if it fails early enough, it can easily be replaced by a better system since all the heavy lifting will have been done. All addresses will have been identified with location codes (longditude, lattitudes) so replacing the poorly designed random numbers with a well designed system will be straightforward.

We still need unique addresses though which is not in the plan.

tvc15

Sam Russell wrote: »

The main gripe about Eirecode is that it is a poorly thought out system that will fail. However, if it fails early enough, it can easily be replaced by a better system since all the heavy lifting will have been done. All addresses will have been identified with location codes (longditude, lattitudes) so replacing the poorly designed random numbers with a well designed system will be straightforward.

We still need unique addresses though which is not in the plan.

That heavy lifting was done completely separately before Eircode assigned their random numbers so I wouldn't give them any credit for that.

I would argue that the code (despite it's issues) will not fail. How would it's failure be measured? The government will use it and require it for all interactions. That alone will keep it alive to some degree. Then you have Rural addresses which are impossible to find, it is very useful for that so it will be used (the loc8 code is equally useful but has probably failed at this point) they will keep the usage alive further

It will be the official post code and if you want delivery guaranteed even from the trucking industry you will include your postcode.

Will people bitch and moan like they always do? Of course!

Will the code fail because of the moaners and a few vested interests? Very unlikely!

You have to define what it means to fail and it seems here that people will declare it a failure if they don't see it as perfect or if their employer says it's too expensive, that's not enough to kill off a national postcode. At the end of the day it will be used

Sam Russell

tvc15 wrote: »

You have to define what it means to fail and it seems here that people will declare it a failure if they don't see it as perfect or if their employer says it's too expensive, that's not enough to kill off a national postcode. At the end of the day it will be used

I see the furore about Irish Water looking for PPS numbers. I see a general election coming. I see the postcode being another nail in the coffin of this Government, so I see this as a possible reverse to save themselves. The late Seamus Brennan scrapped the whole system of road signs for Dublin just after they were installed, and demanded a redesign. Do not forget, Alex White is a new minister with ambition.

tvc15

Sam Russell wrote: »

I see the furore about Irish Water looking for PPS numbers. I see a general election coming. I see the postcode being another nail in the coffin of this Government, so I see this as a possible reverse to save themselves. The late Seamus Brennan scrapped the whole system of road signs for Dublin just after they were installed, and demanded a redesign. Do not forget, Alex White is a new minister with ambition.

So you're likening additional taxation and money out of people's pockets with a new postcode? And your hope is what? That we pay off capita, re-tender and end up paying a new set of consultants (or the same) to make yet another code at a huge cost to the Irish tax payer? Or do you hope that we do away with the idea of a postcode all together?

Curly Judge

ukoda wrote: »

you could hardly call Loc8 "independant" they have a vested interest in rubbishing Eircode.

The main gripe the trucking industry have is that they've to pay for it (boohoo), the other issues they have are pretty invalid.

Will the Irish Ambulance and Civil Defence use it?
Will they have to pay for it out of their budget?
Will the profits on their fees go to the English company?

tvc15

Curly Judge wrote: »

Will the Irish Ambulance and Civil Defence use it?
Will they have to pay for it out of their budget?
Will the profits on their fees go to the English company?

Why do you care where the company is based? You know the ambulances and a lot of the medical equipment is made out of the state!?!! The emergency services will use the code, if they are just putting it into Google maps or a GPS then they won't pay directly but I'm not sure how their systems work at the moment.

In my opinion, if they were to improve response times and reduce inefficient use of emergency services then it is a good thing. Again, loc8 would have done the same but they didn't win the tender so that's settled

larchill

So after over a week of silence (which was deafening!) the tit-for-tat is off again & all because someone read a piece somewhere ... eircode's the one its too far gone now to retrench. Capita have been engaged & in 2015 every address will have a unique code. Its still an improvement on the present situation where 40% of addresses (mainly rural & villages) are non unique. Loc8 technically is a good solution but its not a publicly owned solution. Nor would it use the existing postal districts in Dublin (D1 to D24). In every place postcodes used the existing postal district system where these previously existed. In the UK, the London districts: W1, EC1, etc became W1 XXX, Manchester 1 became M1 XXX. Even in France, Paris 6 became 75006 where 75 is the no for Paris in the national 5 digit postcode system. Same with eircode Dublin 1 will become D01 A2BCD, etc. International practice has always used the existing postal districts where they exist.

Carawaystick

larchill wrote: »

In every place postcodes used the existing postal district system where these previously existed..

Some one I know in Luxemburg emailed me last month to tell me their new postcode, all 4 digits are different to their previous one; for the same house.

yuloni

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TheBustedFlush

tvc15 wrote: »

Again, loc8 would have done the same but they didn't win the tender so that's settled

They decided not to tender. It was possible to assemble a consortium with one big company with sufficient turnover e.g. a satnav partner such as Garmin and had a smaller number of SMEs for other tasks and put forward a valid bid under the terms of the tender - which said that any company owning/earning less than 25% of the total contract value in first year (€16m approx) could be included. The postcode design/database bit was worth a max of €2m.

This is effectively what their competitor Go Code did - and they won.

yuloni

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TheBustedFlush

yuloni wrote: »

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And you think that's why they won the tender? Because one of their team was a member of a postcode working group 7/8 years ago? Utter rubbish.

yuloni

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TheBustedFlush

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ok. That says a lot more about you than it does about them, though.

larchill

Ah that'll do now no more tit-for-tatting!

TheBustedFlush

larchill wrote: »

Ah that'll do now no more tit-for-tatting!

Ok dad. lol

yuloni

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ozmo

A doc posted a few pages back said AnPost were in the running with their own postcode.

What system where they proposing that got turned down would anyone know?

my3cents

ozmo wrote: »

A doc posted a few pages back said AnPost were in the running with their own postcode.

What system where they proposing that got turned down would anyone know?

afaik Anpost don't need postcodes they only need to get the post to the post office that covers the area the post is delivered to, the postman and local knowledge then take over.

In fact AnPost addresses aren't always real addresses. We can't use our actual address if we want mail delivered on time because we have to include the area of the postal route in the address otherwise our mail goes to the wrong post office and then gets redirected.

ozmo

my3cents wrote: »

afaik Anpost don't need postcodes

...but...yet we can see AnPost were in the competition to design the new postcodes- but their design lost- I was wondering what system they were proposing.