M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

ei.sdraob

3 tier stack, dear lord what's wrong with these people and their roundabout fetish :mad:

Can they not build a cloverleaf interchange as is common on the interstate system for example?

etchyed

etchyed wrote: »

How would it be unsafe...?

antoobrien wrote: »

Not very...

I don't really understand this as an answer to my question. Not being smart, I just don't.

The proposed junction is a 3 tier stack, the middle layer being for turning and the north/southbound traffic being the top layer. To do what you're suggesting, they should only have to build the roundabout tier and bring the N18 as far as the northern side of the junction (where the M17 would begin/end).

I know all that, but I don't understand when you say they need only build the roundabout level, and then say they need to "bring the N18 as far as the northern side". Surely bringing the N18 as far as the northern side would mean building the third level?

My question (to MYOB) was that if the whole junction was built along with the M18 and a few hundred metres of closed-off M17, what would the problem be?

EDIT:Sorry MYOB, have just seen your reply. Sorry to be ignorant but I still don't understand. What do you mean by ski jumps?

L1011

etchyed wrote: »

EDIT:Sorry MYOB, have just seen your reply. Sorry to be ignorant but I still don't understand. What do you mean by ski jumps?

Ramps ending in mid air. This being Ireland, some licence amnesty auld wan/auld lad would manage to fly off them.

The third level on a triple stack is quite high off the ground (unless the first level is sunken down - which it isn't in this case) so they'd need to complete a huge amount of earthworks and road building of the M17 section also to avoid this risk.

spacetweek

MYOB wrote: »

Ramps ending in mid air. This being Ireland, some licence amnesty auld wan/auld lad would manage to fly off them.

The third level on a triple stack is quite high off the ground (unless the first level is sunken down - which it isn't in this case) so they'd need to complete a huge amount of earthworks and road building of the M17 section also to avoid this risk.

I don't find this convincing. Roads are closed off with huge concrete blocks all the time. How is someone going to get through those? It's physically impossible. If you wanted to be really sure, you could complete the onramp down to mainline level.

I don't see any impediment to building the junction with parts closed off - I've seen this on Gmaps on the Interstate numerous times. The only objection is that the whole scheme is needed anyway.

YouTookMyName

Any update on this:

Balfour Beatty / BAM team wins £250m Irish road PPP

ardmacha

I don't see any impediment to building the junction with parts closed off

Indeed, you can even put a giant vuvuzela there and a clock on one!

antoobrien

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Any update on this:

Balfour Beatty / BAM team wins £250m Irish road PPP

Coverage of BAMs woes starts at page 41 of this thread, I suggest you go read from there.

LFC Murphy

Taoiseach casts doubts over future of M17
By SIOBHÁN HOLLIMAN
THE Taoiseach has cast doubt over the long-awaited €500 million M17 and Tuam Bypass scheme.
Responding to The Tuam Herald during his Co Galway visit on Friday, Taoiseach Enda Kenny indicated that large infrastructural projects like the long-awaited motorway wouldn’t go ahead until the country’s economy stabilises and regained international confidence.
“It would be lovely to say that we can start these major infrastructure projects just like that. There isn’t any money for many of these projects now,” he responded, when asked about the M17 going ahead.
He said these would only be considered once the budget deficit and the banking situation were sorted out and when confidence is restored in the economy.
Despite speculation and suggestions that the Tuam Bypass should proceed as a stand-alone project, it has been made clear that the NRA cannot entertain or discuss the idea while the current tender process relating to the PPP scheme for the motorway is still active.
“The tender for the M17 route, which incorporates the Tuam Bypass, is currently active and cannot be re-tendered,” stated an NRA spokesperson.
Keaveney confident
Labour Deputy Colm Keaveney is confident that the government will support proceeding with the Tuam Bypass should the M17 PPP fail to materialise.
Transport Minister Leo Varadkar has also indicated his support for the proposal in the Dáil but stressed that the government intended to pursue the PPP for as long as possible.
The Gort to Tuam scheme is being tendered by the NRA as a PPP and is reliant on private sector funding for the construction and operation costs. While it had initially been expected that the contract would be awarded late last year, the instability in Ireland’s economy has resulted in delays in progressing the scheme to financial close.
The NRA has since asked the two final tenderers to provide new tenders based on different financial costs. Once the Preferred Tenderer is appointed then the NRA and the Preferred Tenderer will hold a funding competition to seek funding for the scheme. The NRA expects to have a clearer indication by the end of the summer as to whether or not this new tender process will be successful.
However it is increasingly likely that a toll will be placed on the route. While the NRA is looking for consultants to assess future and existing tolls on routes around the country, it has already estimated that it could accrue up to €7 million a year or €20,000 a day by placing a toll on the Tuam Bypass.
€1.80 toll for bypass?
If the proposal is progressed, motorists would pay €1.80 each time they use the new road. An estimated 11,000 vehicles are set to travel each day on the Tuam Bypass when it is constructed, generating nearly €20,000.
Tolling the town bypass might affect untolled roads, such as the old N17 route, and force traffic back into the town centre. The NRA has previously pointed out that the potential for the diversion of traffic away from the tolled section of road is an important consideration in the selection of new locations.
Suggestions of including tolls on the Tuam Bypass and parts of the M17 were always opposed as it was felt that it would deter motorists from using the route.
Galway West Independent TD Noel Grealish believes motorists are already returning to the back roads to travel from Galway to Athlone because they can’t afford to pay two tolls.
Tuam or Claregalway?
WHILE no decision can be made yet by the government or the NRA on building the Tuam Bypass as a stand-alone project, if it is unlinked from the M17 scheme it could face competition for funding from the Claregalway relief road.
Deputy Noel Grealish has always campaigned for a Claregalway bypass and said the idea that the M17 would act as a bypass of the village simply didn’t stand up.
Funding has been secured to progress the Claregalway road to design stage but there has been no indication that there are funds to pay for the lands or the actual building.
Deputy Grealish believes that once a preferred route is chosen, the CPO process would be fast, however funding hasn’t been secured.
There could be a possibility that the Government will have to make the tough decision as to which bypass to prioritise — Claregalway or Tuam.
Deputy Grealish says if funding of between €12 million and €15 million was in place, the Claregalway road could start by the end of next year. Previous estimates costed the Tuam Bypass at €30 million.
He says the Tuam Bypass is still part of the M17 project and the NRA have no plans to make it a stand alone project.
Galway Co Council says the Claregalway relief road is in the very initial stages but it does expect to have an emerging preferred route within the next two or three months. It only has funding to complete the design stage and without any further indication of Government money, it can’t proceed with the CPO of lands for the road. Discussions with Council sources also indicate that Tuam’s Bypass is unlikely to proceed as a stand-alone project and that if the M17 is stalled then the Tuam road will be too.

http://www.tuamherald.ie/?p=9467

Pete_Cavan

ardmacha wrote: »

Indeed, you can even put a giant vuvuzela there and a clock on one!

I cant wait until the "Hyundai brings the gees" marketing campaign reaches these shores. It will turn a few heads. :pac:

antoobrien

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Any update on this:

Balfour Beatty / BAM team wins £250m Irish road PPP

I came across this page (contents quoted) while following up on something I saw on the M11 - Arklow to Rathnew thread

Project ID: 122364
Date Last Updated: 05/07/2011
Easting:
Northing:
Address: N17/N18 Gort to Tuam PPP Scheme, Tuam
County: Co. Galway
Post code:
Contract Stage: On Hold
Planning Stage: Planning Not Required
Planning Documents:
Planning Authority: Galway Co. Co.
Planning Reference No.:
Application Date:
Decision Date:
Start Date:
Finish Date:
Period:
Floor Area:
Site Area:
Structures:
Value: €300,000,000 (Estimate)
Funding Type: PPP
Units:
Storeys:
Car Parking:
Construction Type: New Build

Apparently BAM have been awarded the contract to start the M11 & N7 junction upgrade on Sept 1st, which was supposed to have been PPP.

The history of the M11 project makes interesting reading - it was changed from PPP to public funding earlier this year

08/07/2011 Contract Stage updated to Main Contract Awarded
08/07/2011 Project Roles were updated
08/07/2011 Funding is expected to be sought in late Summer 2011.
08/07/2011 The contract is expected to be officially awarded once full funding has been secured for the project.
08/07/2011 BAM PPP and Balfour Beatty Capital Limited have been identified as the successful tenderer for the project.
13/05/2011 Funding Type updated to Public

glineli

Does this mean no M18/M17 this year?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0804/kerry.html

Construction is set to begin this morning on the 13.5km bypass of Tralee in Co Kerry.

The Tralee bypass is one of only six national projects going ahead this year.

The €97m project includes an 8km dual carriageway around Tralee town and a 5.5km single carriageway link to the Killarney Road.

It will take 21 months to build and up to 150 people will be employed during construction.

Business and tourist interest groups have welcomed the development, which is seen as essential for the region's economic growth.

As well as cutting traffic levels in Tralee town by 25%, the new bypass will improve access to Kerry Airport as well as travel to and from Killarney.

It is expected that almost 19,000 vehicles per day will travel the route by 2026.

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar will turn the sod today to mark the official start of the project.

Other national projects going ahead this year include the €98m N5 road project in Cork, the N3 Belturbet Bypass, the N5 Longford Bypass, the N4 Downs Grade Separation project, and the N52 Carrickbridge to Dalystown project.

veryangryman

glineli wrote: »

Does this mean no M18/M17 this year?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0804/kerry.html

Construction is set to begin this morning on the 13.5km bypass of Tralee in Co Kerry.

The Tralee bypass is one of only six national projects going ahead this year.

The €97m project includes an 8km dual carriageway around Tralee town and a 5.5km single carriageway link to the Killarney Road.

It will take 21 months to build and up to 150 people will be employed during construction.

Business and tourist interest groups have welcomed the development, which is seen as essential for the region's economic growth.

As well as cutting traffic levels in Tralee town by 25%, the new bypass will improve access to Kerry Airport as well as travel to and from Killarney.

It is expected that almost 19,000 vehicles per day will travel the route by 2026.

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar will turn the sod today to mark the official start of the project.

Other national projects going ahead this year include the €98m N5 road project in Cork, the N3 Belturbet Bypass, the N5 Longford Bypass, the N4 Downs Grade Separation project, and the N52 Carrickbridge to Dalystown project.

Spot the error.

Pedantic Pat stuff aside, they market the crumbs quite well dont they. At least 2 of those projects should have not been prioritised this year. Varadakar attended the most useless of them all.

mk6705

glineli wrote: »

Does this mean no M18/M17 this year?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0804/kerry.html

Construction is set to begin this morning on the 13.5km bypass of Tralee in Co Kerry.

The Tralee bypass is one of only six national projects going ahead this year.

The €97m project includes an 8km dual carriageway around Tralee town and a 5.5km single carriageway link to the Killarney Road.

It will take 21 months to build and up to 150 people will be employed during construction.

Business and tourist interest groups have welcomed the development, which is seen as essential for the region's economic growth.

As well as cutting traffic levels in Tralee town by 25%, the new bypass will improve access to Kerry Airport as well as travel to and from Killarney.

It is expected that almost 19,000 vehicles per day will travel the route by 2026.

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar will turn the sod today to mark the official start of the project.

Other national projects going ahead this year include the €98m N5 road project in Cork, the N3 Belturbet Bypass, the N5 Longford Bypass, the N4 Downs Grade Separation project, and the N52 Carrickbridge to Dalystown project.

The year isn't over yet.

antoobrien

veryangryman wrote: »

Varadakar attended the most useless of them all.

Would you rather have seen one of the Healy Rae clan open it?

veryangryman

antoobrien wrote: »

Would you rather have seen one of the Healy Rae clan open it?

Point is that the Transport minister should know a priority when he sees one. Waste of time going SW today..

So to answer your q, begrudgengly yes

Tech3

Mod Note:

Folks the recent discussions over the last few pages questioning the need for this project are in fact derailing the entire thread. This thread is designed for construction updates and progress only.

Another thread can be created to discuss the pros and cons of this scheme.

Thanks,
Tech3

Neworder79

Varadkar finally coming clean, may as well shut this forum as far as new schemes go, almost all the national and secondary upgrades plans scrapped:

45 major road projects 'shelved'

WORK on all major new road projects is being suspended because of spending cutbacks.

The National Roads Authority (NRA) has been ordered by Transport Minister Leo Varadkar to stop work on them, the Irish Independent has learnt.

This is in addition to the 40 projects already suspended.

Of the 45 routes being shelved, 32 are national primary and 13 are national secondary; bypasses include Slane, Clonmel, Thurles, Kenmare, Listowel, Dungarvan and Adare.

A major question mark has also been placed over three roads due to be bankrolled by the private sector in exchange for tolls.

These are the N11 Arklow to Rathnew/Newlands Cross; M17/28 Gort to Tuam; and the N11/25 Enniscorthy and New Ross bypasses.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/on-the-road-to-nowhere-45-routes-axed-as-cutbacks-bite-2842859.html

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/45-major-road-projects-shelved-515894.html

spacetweek

Not acceptable.

But I still anticipate they'll capitulate on this. The job-creation benefits and industry lobbying will see to it.

Sponge Bob

Seems this project is on life support but Veradkar has not turned the switch off ....yet.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/20906-two-galway-road-projects-suspended

Two major Galway national road projects are to be suspended due to funding difficulties.

Transport Minister Leo Vradkar has ordered the NRA to halt work on the N59 Cliften to Oughterard secondary route and plans for the Moycullen Bypass.

Work on the M17/M28 Gort to Tuam road may also be shelved depending on the availability of private sector funding in exchange for tolls.

CerebralCortex

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Seems this project is on life support but Veradkar has not turned the switch off ....yet.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/20906-two-galway-road-projects-suspended

Two major Galway national road projects are to be suspended due to funding difficulties.

Transport Minister Leo Vradkar has ordered the NRA to halt work on the N59 Cliften to Oughterard secondary route and plans for the Moycullen Bypass.

Work on the M17/M28 Gort to Tuam road may also be shelved depending on the availability of private sector funding in exchange for tolls.

M17/M28?

Benbecul97

CerebralCortex wrote: »

M17/M28?

Its a typo! M17/M18

L1011

Benbecul97 wrote: »

Its a typo! M17/M18

Nah, its just a single scheme to go from Tuam to Ringaskiddy encompassing the M17, M18, M20 and the N28 dualling, all part of the plans :P

antoobrien

It appears that BAM are still hoping to get this project underway. Buried in an article about them being the preferred bidder for a nationwide Board Gais project and discussing their safety record is this comment:

The spokesman said that safety would be its "over-arching priority" in whatever projects it carried out -- which would include the €297m Gort-Tuam motorway project in Co Galway.

While it's good to see the (remote) possibility that they'll start this project, the fact they they are still linked with the project raises a question about the tendering system for PPP projects: Is there an expiration on their status as preferred bidder where they would have to give up the project if they can't raise the funds?

glineli

Anyone got any updates on this? I see on the NRA site its still set to tender state.

spacetweek

glineli wrote: »

Anyone got any updates on this? I see on the NRA site its still set to tender state.

See here.

moto111

D-Day dawns for Gort to Tuam motorway

Intense behind the scenes negotiations are taking with two of the consortiums who had tendered to build the much delayed Gort to Tuam motorway in an effort to rekindle interest the project which already has swallowed up €140 million.

But if no progress is made as a result of these top level discussions, then it is d-day for the M17/M18 motorway with the National Roads Authority having to decide where to begin the tender process all over again or scrap the plan for several years.

And it has been learned that the NRA would not be averse to both consortiums getting involved in the project if it meant that the motorway could be built.

Late last year the contract for the €500 million project was awarded to the BAM Balfour Beatty consortium but contract documents were never signed as they could not secure the financial backing required to proceed with the project.

It has allowed the National Roads Authority to enter into top secret discussions with this consortium along with Roadbridge, the consortium from Limerick which failed to secure the tender for the 57 kilometre motorway.

A source within the NRA told The Connacht Tribune that the discussions centered on making the project attractive from an investment point of view but wouldn’t divulge any further details of the talks.

“Basically we are trying to create an environment which would make it easier for one of the consortiums to secure the necessary funding to invest in a project in this country. We should know the outcome within the next couple of weeks when an announcement will be made”, the source said.

what_traffic

moto111 wrote: »

It has allowed the National Roads Authority to enter into top secret discussions with this consortium along with Roadbridge, the consortium from Limerick which failed to secure the tender for the 57 kilometre motorway.

Anybody have any idea why the NRA would have to have discussions that are top secret?

antoobrien

what_traffic wrote: »

Anybody have any idea why the NRA would have to have discussions that are top secret?

There could be any number of legal reasons for keeping things quiet, or they could simply be trying to do business and not letting the press get in the way (e.g. lumping on an extra €200 to make construction costs look like 500m not the 250-300m I've seen from other sources).

I think it could have to do with the fact that the Roadbridge financial consortium includes a certain Irish bank which has been bailed out for the second time in 25 years.

Amtmann

I fear that the longer this process goes on, the more likely the M17/M18 is to be "suspended" by Leo Varadkar, a la Metro West.

Chris was dead right when he said this was the most important major road project in recent history.

Sponge Bob

Question is whether a ( in total) €400m PPP like this is kept 'alive' or a €150m PPP like the N7/N11 project. I suspect I know the answer.

Roll on the Claregalway Bypass.