M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

Chris_533976

Tenders have gone out for N18 - Oranmore to Gort.

The good news of this is that both schemes appear to be starting next year. Kinda ironic considering that I made that "Which interurban will win" thread - now theres a chance that the N18 will win.

The proposed contract shall comprise the design, execution and completion of the Works but not limited to the provision of:

(i) approximately 27.7 kilometres of Dual Carriageway National Primary Road from the N6/N17/N18 Interchange in the townland of Rathmorrissy to the townland of Glenbrack north of Gort,

(ii) realignment of approximately 9km of single carriageway Local Roads;

(iii) approximately 17km of accommodation works Access Tracks;

(iv) 2 grade separated junctions;

(v) 30 number structures including 19 overbridges, 2 river bridges, 1 railway bridge, 4 accommodation overbridges, 4 accommodation underpasses

(vi) various culverts together with all other Structures necessary as part of the Design and the Works;

(vii) various chambers and ducting Works to be undertaken at various locations within the Site including those suitable for use by the Authorities, Utilities and Service Providers and Private Utility Services and the like;

(viii) various landscape environmental and mitigation Works;

(ix) various re-alignments of rivers, streams and the provision of drainage outfalls;

(x) various fencing, safety barrier systems and drainage Works;

(xi) various signing and lighting Works;

(xii) various earthworks Works;

(xiii) various Works including diversions of Authorities, Utilities and Service Providers and Private Utility Services;

(xiv) various Accommodation Works including accesses to properties and lands; and

(xv) various ancillary Works all as described elsewhere in the Contract.
Estimated value range between 120000000 and 160000000

Was thinking also, wouldnt it be interesting if Oranmore - Gort was open before Gort - Crusheen. Can you imagine what a chaotic nightmare Gort would turn into???

Chris_533976

Got some new infos.

There will be NO toll booths at Rathmorrisey, so only the mainline N6 will be tolled at Cappaghtaggle. NO tolls for Galway to Limerick/Tuam and vice versa.

Also, stuff is slipping again. The NRA tell me that they anticipate construction beginning in Q4 2008. But how much work will be done before then (as they do) I dont know.

The N18 Oranmore to Gort and the N18 Gort to Crusheen schemes are currently out to Tender. Tenders are due to be returned in mid 2008 and construction is scheduled to start in Q4 2008. Archaeological and environmental works required to be undertaken in advance of construction are in progress.

Chris_533976

I agree with amalgamating the M17 scheme with the Tuam bypass, as separate schemes they would be a 25km motorway and a 4km bypass. One without the other is stupid and a motorway coming to a halt a few hundred meters from Tuam and going at-grade through the town would be pandemonium. As for putting it with the other scheme I'd say it'd be too long as one scheme.

Something will have to be done about Claregalway, before theres a mutiny on this side of the island.

And when they fight about not building a bypass because of a cotton plant, I call them a bunch of hippies, Civil Servents or not!

Sponge Bob

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I agree with amalgamating the M17 scheme with the Tuam bypass, as separate schemes they would be a 25km motorway and a 4km bypass. One without the other is stupid and a motorway coming to a halt a few hundred meters from Tuam and going at-grade through the town would be pandemonium.

Well I thought the Tuam bypass could be built in less than a year as envisaged ( 2 lane) but it may now become a Motorway too . It could go ahead by end next year on its own, no controversial EIS is anticipated and the CPO would be simple.

As for putting it with the other scheme I'd say it'd be too long as one scheme.

about 50km , same as Galway Ballinasloe .

Something will have to be done about Claregalway, before theres a mutiny on this side of the island.

Absolutely, 3km of road should deal with the worst of it , its simply painful . Noel Grealish has gone to ground on the matter, unsurprisingly . He won't even do meetings with Claregalway people now ...or any interviews .

And when they fight about not building a bypass because of a cotton plant, I call them a bunch of hippies, Civil Servents or not!

But they are Civil Servants, not crushties . In fact one government scientist alone made the strongest case against the Galway bypass !!

I cannot see it built within 5 years, even if there were €300+m for it which there is not as we all know.

Before the Dept of Finance has the goolies off the NRA and kills the Atlantic Road Corridor we may be lucky enough to get the N18 off to the diggers , and the N15 stranorlar bypass , but there are no further schemes through planning/eis/cpo/oral hearing and ready to go .

The N20 is years away , same stage as the N17 now , route selection FFS as is the Rest of the N15

Sponge Bob

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Early mumblings are around 2010 or 2011 for the N20 to start - that will be Mallow - Croom as its the most needed. 2011 or 2012 for the others to start.

I believe that 2011 -2012 is the earliest feasible start .

We wont have a Patrickswell - Mallow route selected until 2009 after which detailed designs and all the rest must go through their usual tortous hugger mugger to enquiry and beyond to tender .

I therefore cannot possibly see it start until 2011 and the construction phase if it ever happens would last 2 years or so , max 3 .

Then there is the slight problem of the large rail scheme(s) in Dublin expected to be underway by 2011 and sucking the exchequer dry of capital funds for transport schemes .

Then there is the larger problem of exchequer funds themselves in the post celtic tiger hangover era .

The most I now expect in the west by 2015 is a small 3km long Claregalway bypass and the N18 and 5 km Tuam Bypass .

Realistically I only expect Gort - Crusheen and Claregalway by then , not even Gort-Oranmore and never mind the Galway Bypass which will still be stuck in Europe somewhere and stuffed in the back of Noel Dempseys bottom drawer while he lets the Greens deal with it .

The years 2009 and 2010 will see large expenditures on roads that are already being built even if no new schemes are started. After that the NRA will be a shadow of its former self and incable of progressing anything .

Such is the will of the Dept of Finance and Finance will win in the end ....and does not care about the west anyway, never did.

Chris_533976

My guesswork is that Galway - Limerick will be done to appease the west, much as the Western Rail Corridor. Cork to Limerick will be done around the later timescale, but as a tolled PPP. Galway - Tuam bypass will be done or there'll be a riot over here.

Apart from that, we might see the New Ross bypass and maybe Ballincollig - Macroom.

I think the stuff that will be culled is secondary schemes like the N24 Limerick - Waterford.

Again, guesswork tho.

Sponge Bob

Chris_533976 wrote: »

My guesswork is that Galway - Limerick will be done to appease the west, much as the Western Rail Corridor. Cork to Limerick will be done around the later timescale, but as a tolled PPP. Galway - Tuam bypass will be done or there'll be a riot over here.

LOL Finance is not being decentralised to Galway is it ??

Apart from that, we might see the New Ross bypass and maybe Ballincollig - Macroom.

I think the stuff that will be culled is secondary schemes like the N24 Limerick - Waterford.

Again, guesswork tho.

Well only this time last year the N21 Castleisland Bypass was ready to rock in 2008 .

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=9226&lang=ENG&loc=2126

Minister Cullen said: "As the Castleisland Bypass will assist in improving the economic and tourism infrastructure for the North Kerry area, I have asked the National Roads Authority to accelerate the necessary preparatory work so that construction can commence next year, 2008."



The Bypass, which comprises 5.4 kms of single carriageway, is the final section of the N21 road project that links the N21 at Killally to the N23 southwest of Castleisland. The Ballycarthy / Tralee leg (3kms) was completed in 2005 and the Castleisland / Abbeyfeale stretch (7 kms) opened in July last year.

And yet I suspect that this, along with the N21 Adare Bypass and the N20 are dead ducks . Any Road scheme that does not get started in 2008 is a totally dead duck now .

Furthermore Dempsey , a Meath TD, is minister for Transport so the real likelihood is that he will be minded to progress this other scheme .

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=9570&lang=ENG&loc=2133

Both Transport 21 and the new NDP committed the NRA to carrying out a feasibility study on the Orbital Route. In April 2007, the NRA completed an updated feasibility study which builds on an earlier 2001 study, looking in particular at the costs and benefits of such a route.

As part of the study various possible route corridors were examined in detail. A corridor linking Drogheda to Navan to Naas was identified as the optimum route having regard to the policy objectives set out in the policy documents.

The primary objective of the Leinster Orbital Route is to provide an alternative bypass of Dublin for national road traffic not wishing to access the Metropolitan Area and to provide a transport link between development centres in the Hinterland Area of the Greater Dublin Area, in a way which supports their sustainable, physical and economic development.

The updated NRA study finds that there is merit in constructing an Orbital Route linking Drogheda/Navan/Naas.

Dempsey made no attempt to correct what Fred Barry said in May , Fred has clearance to say this from Dempsey all along .

http://www.ism.ie/blog/index.php/405/nra-wants-leinster-outer-orbital-motorway/

NRA chief executive Fred Barry said the inter urban motorway programme linking Dublin with Cork, Limerick, and Galway would be completed in two years time and the next major priority would be the Leinster Outer Orbital, which would connect with most of the main routes out of the capital.

Would you think that Dempsey will prioritise the Atlantic Corridor if he has already allowed the NRA to unilaterally rewrite the Transport 21 menu to deprioritise the Atlantic Corridor in favour of a road that is not even in Transport 21 but which puts Navan in the centre of the National Motorway nexus .

I think not. I am a realist . The Dept of Finance will buy this project over the Atlantic Corridor any day.

It will be cheap for the state and will of course be a tolled PPP project .

Follow the money Chris. Its not heading west and thats that , not even if Frank Fahey is promoted to Minister of Transport

galwayrush

I'd still prefer to see a Gort - Galway -Tuam Motorway, still can't believe the NRA opted for Athenry instead of Galway. Guess there's no point hoping they might reroute it so it's more useful.

Cool Mo D

I think they opted for Athenry for a few reasons, of varying convincingness.

Cost: It's (much) cheaper to build it to Athenry then closer in to Galway City.

Long-Distance traffic over commuters: It's obviously a better route for people travelling Cork/Limerick/Ennis to points north of Galway, as it won't be so crowded with commuters. It's also more direct for people living along the new M18/M17 corridor travelling East.

rekrow

Does anybody know what is going to happen to the designation of the road from Kilcolgan to Doughiska if the N18 between Gort and Rathmorrisey is built? Will it become an RXXX road with an 80kmph speed limit or will it become the N67 and keep its 100 kmph speed limit. If it is downgraded where will the N67 join the new N18?

Colm R

rekrow wrote: »

Does anybody know what is going to happen to the designation of the road from Kilcolgan to Doughiska if the N18 between Gort and Rathmorrisey is built? Will it become an RXXX road with an 80kmph speed limit or will it become the N67 and keep its 100 kmph speed limit. If it is downgraded where will the N67 join the new N18?

Good point. Keep an eye on what happens to the N8 between Durrow and Port Laois. Intellignetly, it should become the N77 and be the road from Kilkenny to Portlaois, otherwise you get an N road finishing at an R road. Hopefully this will happen to the N67 as well.

marmurr1916

rekrow wrote: »

Does anybody know what is going to happen to the designation of the road from Kilcolgan to Doughiska if the N18 between Gort and Rathmorrisey is built? Will it become an RXXX road with an 80kmph speed limit or will it become the N67 and keep its 100 kmph speed limit. If it is downgraded where will the N67 join the new N18?

Speed limits can be kept at 100 km/h (or more accurately, 'increased' to 100 km/h from the default 80 km/h) on Regional roads, whether they're former National roads or not, if the local county council wants.

Long stretches of the R639 (ex-N8) have 100 km/h in Cork and Tipp have 100 km/h speed limits.

The new speed-limit system allows for flexibility: even though the default speed limit on Regional roads is 80 km/h, a 100 km/h limit is permitted where road conditions allow and the local council approves.

If you're concerned, contact Galway County Council and ask them what their plans are and start lobbying your local county councillors too.

Chris_533976

I'm sure GCC in their wisdom havent even thought about this at all.

In any case most of the Galway roundabouts are so jammed that 100kmh is a pipe dream anyway

invincibleirish

BluntGuy wrote: »

I can certainly see things reaching their worst around 2010/2011, possibly even 2012, and no I don't see revenue recovering substantially within the medium term. But combine the remaining M20,M18 and M11 schemes. That's roughly 130 km worth of DC to construct within the space of a few years. I think that is (just about) feasible to do.

This is idle speculation on my part but by my reckoning, if there are limited funds for Roads in the post 2010 period then i would expect FF, er the Government, to reassess spending away from big projects like DOOR and the M20 and instead focus that money in lots of minor projects(currently 80+ in the first 3 stages of development on the NRA site) which are spread geographically across all of the constituencies, er the country.

Combine FF cute hoorism with the Greens having to grow a pair sometime and push for real improvements in public transport, which will take away from roads spending.

As i say all speculative, but you know on SABRE and other Nerd sites all those threads showing plans of long abandoned schemes from the heyday of British Motorway building which were cancelled or built piecemeal?i get a feeling most Irish projects currently not built or have no local lobby behind it will suffer a similar demise.

BluntGuy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

b) It is even questionable whether some of the MIU projects will be complete by 2010

The majority of the MIU sections are proceeding at a rapid pace.

It is the M7/M8 Portlaoise-Cullahill/Castletown and M7 Nenagh Bypass that are worrying me the most at the moment.

Sponge Bob

The small scheme idea is good for the present . Places like Claregalway and Longford would be much better off for want of a few KM of S2 each

I can see a few of these getting the go ahead in 2011 ....election year !

The locals in places like Claregalway will have to hound Grealish and Fahey to get even that much.

Larger projects like the M20 or Galway Bypass ( short or long versions ) are probably dead in the water for a long time .

The Department of Finance has been frantically trying for a year or so to rein in spending on Motorways, or indeed on any roads outside the pale, and it has finally succeeded .

invincibleirish

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The small scheme idea is good for the present . Places like Claregalway and Longford would be much better off for want of a few KM of S2 each

I can see a few of these getting the go ahead in 2011 ....election year !

The locals in places like Claregalway will have to hound Grealish and Fahey to get even that much.

Larger projects like the M20 or Galway Bypass ( short or long versions ) are probably dead in the water for a long time .

The Department of Finance has been frantically trying for a year or so to rein in spending on Motorways, or indeed on any roads outside the pale, and it has finally succeeded .

It all adds up from a potential 2012 Election manifesto point of view; cherry pick a few bypasses in some counties, the opening of the MIUs through some others, a few LUAS/railway projects & improvements in Dublin and the West and you should just about have every constituency that matters in Ireland covered by at least something. I like it.

KevR

BluntGuy wrote: »

I would just love to see the M20 and M18 opening, it'll be more gratifying in many ways than our other Dublin-centric MUIs.

Agreed.

While I'm really looking forward to the completion of the M6 so that Galway will have a continous motorway to Dublin, it will really be something to be proud of when Galway, Cork and Limerick are also connected with each other by motorway.

BluntGuy

invincibleirish wrote: »

I get a feeling most Irish projects currently not built or have no local lobby behind it will suffer a similar demise.

The other M18 scheme will get built. Locals will campaign the ass out of it to fill in the missing 26 km (and tbh, finishing off the M18 is much easier than starting an M20).

People are also starting to show enormous interest in the M20 scheme. No doubt people in places like Mallow can appreciate how important this scheme is. Good access from Cork to Limerick is essential to help encourage strategic regional development i.e building up Cork and Limerick to relatively big sizes to make it viable for foreign investment to be made to these cities where before, only Dublin or Belfast would have been deemed suitable.

marmurr1916

All this assumes that the current government will survive til 2012 AND that either this government won't change its policies or a new government won't have different policies.

If the current government had the cop-on to realise that borrowing money to spend on long-term infrastructural improvements that will increase the productive capacity of the economy is sound, Keynesian economic policy to adopt during a recession, then we'd actually have an increase in the pace of road building.

Barack Obama has announced that his administration will be spending large amounts of money on infrastructural improvements, the British government is borrowing money to fund spending.

Both are doing the right thing: when the private sector slashes spending (as it's doing now), then the government should step in, increase spending (on productive, capital projects, NOT pay increases for public-sector employees) and give the economy a boost.

Unfortunately, our government has got it ass-backwards and is actually cutting its own spending at a time when everyone else is cutting spending.

That's a sure fire way to ensure that the recession is going to last longer and be harsher than it would be otherwise.

Hopefully before long we'll get a new government that has some economic cop-on.

BluntGuy

marmurr1916 wrote: »

All this assumes that the current government will survive til 2012 AND that either this government won't change its policies or a new government won't have different policies.

If the current government had the cop-on to realise that borrowing money to spend on long-term infrastructural improvements that will increase the productive capacity of the economy is sound, Keynesian economic policy to adopt during a recession, then we'd actually have an increase in the pace of road building.

Barack Obama has announced that his administration will be spending large amounts of money on infrastructural improvements, the British government is borrowing money to fund spending.

Both are doing the right thing: when the private sector slashes spending (as it's doing now), then the government should step in, increase spending (on productive, capital projects, NOT pay increases for public-sector employees) and give the economy a boost.

Unfortunately, our government has got it ass-backwards and is actually cutting its own spending at a time when everyone else is cutting spending.

That's a sure fire way to ensure that the recession is going to last longer and be harsher than it would be otherwise.

Hopefully before long we'll get a new government that has some economic cop-on.

Road-scheme activity will decrease regardless of economic conditions because the current pace is unsustainable anyway, we're only doing it this rapidly to catch up. There will never again be years when we have 400 km of motorway under construction at any one given moment.

However, road-scheme activity should be kept-up to help keep construction workers in jobs and prop up the economy (while we try to develop the native industries our government has failed to over the last 10 - 15 years). The M20, M18 and M11 need to be completed, we can't have patchwork jobs done on these.

Cork, Limerick and Galway need to be connected together properly for reasons I mentioned before in the thread. It is startling that a journey from Cork to Limerick can take two hours. That's only 100 km. Compare from Dublin-Athlone, approximately the same distance (120 km), can be done in a hour and ten minutes.

Imagine cutting 30 to 50 minutes off the Cork-Limerick journey. That would most certainly improve activity between the two cities. Express bus services would become a realistic option. Trade would increase. The safety benefits would be enormous. The M7, M20, M22 and M8 would integrate perfectly helping to create a more efficient network.

Of course this an M18 thread and I'm rambling on about the M20, but similar reasons apply for connecting Galway to Limerick (and subsequently Cork).

Chris_533976

The quickest you can drive west of Galway to Cork (and about 20miles out the other side) (keeping to speed limits) is 3h15m. Thats on a Sunday afternoon with no holdups and no tractors.

Meet slow drivers, that goes up. Hit Limerick/Gort/Clarinbridge/Charleville/Cork at the wrong time and its up to over four hours.

Four hours to drive that distance is just unacceptable.

Pisser Dignam

KevR wrote: »

I can't wait for the Gort-Crusheen section (and the next section to Athenry) to open. The sooner the better.

Kev, what do you think about the Athenry routing?

KevR

Pisser Dignam wrote: »

Kev, what do you think about the Athenry routing?

You would think it would have made more sense to follow the current N18 route up as far as Claregalway and then follow the N17 route to Tuam. Would fully solve the Claregalway problem and they could have the M18/M6 junction between Carnmore and Oranmore.

On the other hand, even if they did bend the M18/M17 in towards Galway City more (as I said above) then you'd still have all M18/M17 traffic having to use the M6 to get to Galway. If you were coming off the M18/M17 and onto the M6 at a junction between Oranmore and Carnmore you'd literally only save 4 or 5 mins in getting into Galway than you would if you came onto the M6 at Rathmorrisey (Athenry) as is planned because they're not that far apart at all.
If they did follow the current N18/N17 routes and bend the motorway more towards Galway then I'm sure it would probably involve them having to acquire and bulldoze many more houses/properties and land itself would be a bit more expensive to acquire.

On the surface it's hard to see why they would go via Athenry rather than Oranmore/Galway, but there wouldn't be a huge advantage to going via Oranmore IMO. It would be more expensive, more complicated and there would be a lot more objections - and all this would only get M18/M17 traffic into Galway a few mins quicker. It's a pity the route they have chosen won't fully solve the Claregalway problem but I can see why they have chosen the route they have.

What I'm really concerned about is the cheap junction they are building to connect the M6/17/18 and a motorway service area. Also, concerned that all traffic coming into the City from the East, North and South will end up at an at grade roundabout at Doughiska (unless they build the Galway Bypass). And from what I can see they haven't made the provision for a future upgrade to the M6 between Rathmorrisey (Athenry) and Galway to 3+3 - I might be wrong but I can see that section of the M6 struggling to cope from day one when the connections are made to the M17/M18.

Tech3

KevR wrote: »

There's no completion date for the Gort-Crusheen project on the NRA website, not that I can see anyway. Anyone know the planned completion date?

Had to drive Galway-Shannon and back again yesterday, both journeys during hours of darkness and the weather was aweful for driving also.
The current N18 between Oranmore and Crusheen is a disgrace. Such a dangerous road. You suddenly come into sections which have no cats eyes. There are loads of dangerous bends, loads of sudden dips & sudden climbs in the road, sudden endings of the hard shoulder, sudden narrowing in the road, aweful sightlines, impossible to overtake.....etc. They honestly must have spent more money on paying for and installing chevrons at dangerous bends than they would have spent on just straightning the road! It's such a pain to drive on. Drove on it at 23:30 last night and one slow driving van caused a pretty big tailback because nobody could overtake.

In stark contrast, the Ennis bypass is a pleasure to drive on. It feels so much safer and you don't get frustrated because you can't get stuck behind someone driving slow. I can't wait for the Gort-Crusheen section (and the next section to Athenry) to open. The sooner the better.

One of the most frustrating things about the current N18 from crusheen to oranmore is the lack of overtaking spots and not enough straight road. But when the crusheen to gort scheme will be finished(will try to get some pics of this next time I pass gort), the most dangerous spots will be bypassed, tight single caraigeway on both sides outside crusheen being the worst part of it. At least the gort to oranmore section has a hard shoulder continuously and is wider.

This might be slightly off topic but has anyone noticed how bad the stretch just turning onto the N17 at the oranmore roundabout near the railway track is now. I find it really dangerous when coming in from the claregalway side at night as there is no cats eyes whatsoever on the road. The road markings are also nearly eroded.

KevR

tech2 wrote: »

This might be slightly off topic but has anyone noticed how bad the stretch just turning onto the N17 at the oranmore roundabout near the railway track is now. I find it really dangerous when coming in from the claregalway side at night as there is no cats eyes whatsoever on the road. The road markings are also nearly eroded.

Indeed, the road is aweful there. Dangerous even during the day because of the almost invisible road markings and poor surface. Even worse at night with no cats eyes. The road markings badly need to be re-painted.

BTW, I think where you were talking about is the N18, rather than the N18. It stays N18 all along that road from Oranmore until Claregalway where it join/becomes the N17.


Forgot to mention in my post where I was describing how bad the current N18 from Gort-Crusheen is: the road surface on the N18 through Gort is brutal. They won't ever need to pay for traffic calming measures in Gort because the road surface is so bad it forces people to slow down. Roll on the day Gort is bypassed by this new DC that's under construction.

Tech3

KevR wrote: »

BTW, I think where you were talking about is the N18, rather than the N18. It stays N18 all along that road from Oranmore until Claregalway where it join/becomes the N17.

Yep my mistake, the great N17,N18 junction in claregalway that has wasted hours of my life!! :pac:

KevR wrote: »

Forgot to mention in my post where I was describing how bad the current N18 from Gort-Crusheen is: the road surface on the N18 through Gort is brutal. They won't ever need to pay for traffic calming measures in Gort because the road surface is so bad it forces people to slow down. Roll on the day Gort is bypassed by this new DC that's under construction.

Galway county concil dont seem to care about the surface of some of their towns. Tuam is another nightmare but not on the scale of the gort road surface. I fear for my cars suspension when I pass through there. I wonder do the locals ever complain about it? We still have to drive another 3 years though this place until the bypass is in place.

KevR

tech2 wrote: »

Galway county concil dont seem to care about the surface of some of their towns. Tuam is another nightmare but not on the scale of the gort road surface. I fear for my cars suspension when I pass through there. I wonder do the locals ever complain about it? We still have to drive another 3 years though this place until the bypass is in place.

I'm not too sure about Gort but people in Tuam are always complaining about the roads there (which I agree are aweful). I think the official line from the County Council is that they won't be doing any resurfacing work in Tuam until after some big 2 year long street dig to put in new water mains. Which is fair enough except for I'm led to believe that there are a fair few very bad streets in Tuam that won't be affected by the 'big dig' at all. There was an article in the paper a while back and the mayor of Tuam was saying that many people's cars have been damaged by the bad roads in Tuam. Would say this is the same in Gort because it's worse there.

Sorry for going a bit off-topic with this talk of Tuam

Geogregor

What is the latest status of N18 from Gort to Oranmore?
Any hope od construction starting soon?

spacetweek

Geogregor wrote: »

What is the latest status of N18 from Gort to Oranmore?
Any hope od construction starting soon?

No, there is no news. No roads are starting this year (2009). If any begin in 2010, the N18 is likely.

Chris_533976

The government have dealt unilateral cutbacks to just about everything. And they've been lying about a lot. I'll bet the N18 is the last project to get government funding for a long time.

The NRA are planning four more PPP schemes AFAIK. One is M18 Oranmore-Gort lumped in with the M17 to Tuam. Lets hope that goes ahead. M20 is another.

And forget about the Cork SRRs. They're still not high priority, and some idiots in the Cork council are OPPOSING them, proceeding blindly into an anti car, pro (useless) bus war.

marmurr1916

The Gort-Tuam section of the N18/N17 has gone to tender:

The N17/N18 Gort to Tuam PPP Scheme is for the design, construction, operation, maintenance and financing of approximately 57 kilometres of motorway/dual carriageway forming part of the N17/N18 national primary route together with several kilometres of associated side and link roads. It is intended that the scheme will also include the development and operation (plus associated financing) of a motorway service area. All such elements of work set out above are approximate only and may be reduced or added to by the Authority following dialogue with those Candidates selected to proceed to the next stage of the competition or otherwise at the Authority's absolute discretion. The Authority may also extend the operation and maintenance elements to include other parts of the national road network.

Chris_533976

Just crossposting from Infrastructure ->

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Shadow toll I think. And the Service Area will be at Rathmorrisey, tacked onto the M18/6/17 roundabout. ( )

Etenders I dont usually trust as they're either late/early/wrong, but I'm glad this has appeared. In any case, I'm not believing ANYTHING until I see diggers digging and even then until I see pics in this forum of something being built.

I dont think we're going to see a complete halt to construction, despite the fact that the coffers are dry. Instead, I think we'll see one scheme starting per year until we have money again. Just one scheme per year, and possibly only a token one. But I dont think we'll see a COMPLETE halt. One measly scheme (like Castleisland) will keep the government being able to say "we're doing something". And thats more important than ANYTHING to them at the moment.

So in 2008 that scheme was Gort - Crusheen (last token scheme)
2009 Castleisland
2010 Gort - Tuam PPP or if its too expensive the cheap-ass Longford bypass will be resurrected.

We'll see, but I'm not holding any hope for this yet. Both N18 schemes have been on Etenders before AND BEEN CANCELLED. So we'll see.

Chris_533976

An absolute heap of documents about the M17/M18 PPP scheme has appeared.

The Site Investigation tenders have been published - interesting to note that the site investigation tender includes some drilling and testing on the Outer Bypass route.

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=FEB114698

ftp://87.192.143.70/
Username: SiteInvestigation
Password: pass

If you're wondering, that information is freely posted on the tender document page, so its not private.

Some interesting reading in there.

mysterious

So When is the Gort to Athenry scheme going to start?

it really needs to press on. The existing N18 won't be able to cope with the new infastructure just south of it.

Anymore pics?

BluntGuy

Chris_533976 wrote: »

An absolute heap of documents about the M17/M18 PPP scheme has appeared.

The Site Investigation tenders have been published - interesting to note that the site investigation tender includes some drilling and testing on the Outer Bypass route.

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=FEB114698

ftp://87.192.143.70/
Username: SiteInvestigation
Password: pass

If you're wondering, that information is freely posted on the tender document page, so its not private.

Some interesting reading in there.

How did you get access to those information packs and passwords. Any possible way you could get access to information packs for other schemes?

Chris_533976

Just found it in the tender document information, click on the Full Notice Text and the username/pass is halfway down the page. Tho I've never seen this for any other scheme.

The good news:
The Motorway Service Area will be built as part of the scheme.

The bad news:
They've included a pic.



Oh dear.

L1011

Ah, how nice, they've left it so close to the mainline it'll either need to be knocked or require and M50/N3 contortion in 20 years time when that junction is made freeflow...

BluntGuy

Well, I suppose I better make some kind of observation. Gee, where do I start with what's wrong with that design?

It's got a roundabout in it, and it links three motorways. Hmmm... I think that's a pretty good start.

Token left free-flow slips don't do anything to comfort me. What about traffic going from Galway to Limerick (i.e THE MAIN PURPOSE OF THE M18). They'll be forced to use the roundabout.

What about traffic going from Tuam to Galway (i.e THE MAIN PURPOSE OF THE M17). They'll be forced to use the roundabout.

Who is going to use the MSA? Who is really going to go to that kind of trouble?

Main point: WHY IS SUCH AN INEFFICIENT DESIGN BEING USED?

mysterious

BluntGuy wrote: »

Well, I suppose I better make some kind of observation. Gee, where do I start with what's wrong with that design?

It's got a roundabout in it, and it links three motorways. Hmmm... I think that's a pretty good start.

Token left free-flow slips don't do anything to comfort me. What about traffic going from Galway to Limerick (i.e THE MAIN PURPOSE OF THE M18). They'll be forced to use the roundabout.

What about traffic going from Tuam to Galway (i.e THE MAIN PURPOSE OF THE M17). They'll be forced to use the roundabout.

Who is going to use the MSA? Who is really going to go to that kind of trouble?

Main point: WHY IS SUCH AN INEFFICIENT DESIGN BEING USED?

This interchange is not only insufficient. but it can't be upgraded once built. They are also rather ugly too.

I think this is nothing but a c and three letters after it.

mysterious

Some artists we have in the design office:rolleyes:

But to be brutally honest, it's one ugly motherf******

serfboard

Chris_533976 wrote: »

The bad news:
They've included a pic.

BluntGuy wrote: »

Token left free-flow slips don't do anything to comfort me. What about traffic going from Galway to Limerick (i.e THE MAIN PURPOSE OF THE M18). They'll be forced to use the roundabout.

What about traffic going from Tuam to Galway (i.e THE MAIN PURPOSE OF THE M17). They'll be forced to use the roundabout.

Who is going to use the MSA? Who is really going to go to that kind of trouble?

Main point: WHY IS SUCH AN INEFFICIENT DESIGN BEING USED?

I have to say I've seen a lot of discussion on boards about the M6/17/18 interchange design but didn't really give it much thought, because I hadn't seen it pictorially. However the picture and the points made above really clarify it for me.

25K vehicles per day use Claregalway, most are going into the city. So, even if 60% use it, that means 15,000 vehicles per day are going to have to use the roundabout. And that's not counting the number going from Galway to Limerick. :eek:

Good God.

Cool Mo D

That's not actually that many - a roundabout can easily handle 15,000 vehicles per day congestion free. The stupid part is that it wouldn't cost much more to build a proper free flow junction, which would be able to cope better with future demands.

murphaph

I'm convinced that the roundabout is only being used so they can get away with one MSA covering all three motorways. Any freeflow solution would have meant extra infrastructure to get away with one MSA or else build an MSA for the M6 mainline and another one for the M17/18 mainline. Still sucks though and the least they should have done was move the MSA away from the junction to allow an upgrade later (even though stacked roundabouts are awkward as it is to upgrade).

Amtmann

I'm sorry, can someone summarise point by point what it is that is wrong with this scheme?

I have heard objections about a roundabout, a service area, and poor route selection that won't alleviate traffic problems for some commuter towns.

I'm not familiar with the plans or with the area, and don't have time to investigate it.

mysterious

Yuck

Yucky

horrible

DISASTER...


Sorry for trolling:P

Zoney

Cool Mo D wrote: »

That's not actually that many - a roundabout can easily handle 15,000 vehicles per day congestion free. The stupid part is that it wouldn't cost much more to build a proper free flow junction, which would be able to cope better with future demands.

Presumably that's if they are spread out across the day. If they are in the morning and evening though...

Just look at N24/N7 junction (a diamond-type interchange) on the Limerick Southern Ring Road to see an example of serious traffic jams despite a junction solution that was theoretically enough for the AADT (N24 is, or was, low AADT - but it turns out it was mostly bunched either end of the day). They've had to install traffic lights on it to ensure the backlog is mostly on the S2 Tipperary Road instead of tailing down the slips onto the dual carriageway.

Tech3

Zoney wrote: »

Presumably that's if they are spread out across the day. If they are in the morning and evening though...

Just look at N24/N7 junction (a diamond-type interchange) on the Limerick Southern Ring Road to see an example of serious traffic jams despite a junction solution that was theoretically enough for the AADT (N24 is, or was, low AADT - but it turns out it was mostly bunched either end of the day). They've had to install traffic lights on it to ensure the backlog is mostly on the S2 Tipperary Road instead of tailing down the slips onto the dual carriageway.

Couldnt agree more the N7/N24 is a disaster of a junction.

1. Anyway the first problem with the tuam-gort is the route. It should be a lot closer to Galway city, the N17 tuam to galway is one of the busiest roads in the country and I doubt those commuters will be using the new road if they have to drive all the way to athenry to join the new N17.

2. A roundabout connecting 3 motorways, how crazy is that. This should be a freeflow junction but there looks to be no going back now. One good point of the route is for longer commuters like myself that would travel to sligo from limerick. it is more direct.

Amtmann

tech2 wrote: »

1. Anyway the first problem with the tuam-gort is the route. It should be a lot closer to Galway city, the N17 tuam to galway is one of the busiest roads in the country and I doubt those commuters will be using the new road if they have to drive all the way to athenry to join the new N17.

Surely this is a disaster? Has no one complained about the routing?

Tech3

Furet wrote: »

Surely this is a disaster? Has no one complained about the routing?

Indeed its a big problem. I didnt hear any complaints regarding this however but maybe someone from around the galway area would know more. Some of the routing of new roads in this country is very questionable. Example the new M3 under construction going through the hill of tara. An ancient site where a motorway should never be near. :mad:

mysterious

That roundabout is plonked there because of Moterway service station.


This country is laughable as usual. There is no other word to describe this.
One being it's a stupid place to build one
Two the only reason they are building the roundabout is to suit the needs of the M.S.S, not the traffic that will use the road.

Roundabout should not be built as a way of connection 3 motorways together. They were built in the UK as a cheap alternative to free flowing interchange. Infact there is little difference in the cost. The amount of bridges would even be more on the Rounabout design depending on how how high or low the roundabout is. The major flaw to these roundabout motorway juncions they can't be upgraded they have to be knocked to allow further free flow movement's.

Horray.
This is so pissing me off. I just don't understand this country really really don't.:mad:


Why build a motorway service station 2km from Athenry, 15km for Gort and a few Kms from Galway. I just don't get it. I'm boycotting that heap of ****e when it's built.