M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Sponge Bob

Some klutzes think that all roads lead to Dublin even when you actually want to get to Cork.

I hope Newlands/Arklow is not canned all the same, I would personally rank that a netch higher than the GCOB and Gort - ( bloody Claregalway) Tuam

touts

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes the ideal would be motorway from Donegal to Galway to Limerick to Cork down the west combined with motorway from Limerick to Waterford/Rosslare (M24). Cork to Waterford/Rosslare (M25), Galway to Belfast (new) and Donegal to Dublin (M2/A5). That would combine with the current "to Dublin" motorways to give you a web of motorways that would provide rapid travel times around the whole Island.

In reality though the money isn't there to do the whole thing so naturally every local region believes their little bit it the most critical. Just go onto the root of this forum and you will see animated discussions of the extremely urgent need to spend millions on the N20, N17, N2, N24, M50, M1 etc etc etc. If Galway get two projects then rightly or wrongly that will be percieved that another region will have lost out. The TDs along other routes will get savaged by their locals. For example just yesterday another driver was killed on the N24 so if it is announced today that the N24 upgrade is scrapped but Galway gets both their bits then the TDs in Limerick, Tipperary and Waterford will have people in their clinics on Saturday waving news stories about the fatal N24 accident, the cancellation of the N24 and doubtless some clueless jubilant Galway TD celebrating "up the whest and god bless our man Enda and I won this investment for Galway".

That may be an unfair perspective but it is how it will play in the Irish media and political system.

jenningso

http://www.galwaynews.ie/22611-outer-bypass-and-motorway-survive-states-capital-spend-cull

munchkin_utd

jenningso wrote: »

http://www.galwaynews.ie/22611-outer-bypass-and-motorway-survive-states-capital-spend-cull

which includes the not insignificant fact that ......
"some €140 million has already been spent on this project already by the State."

Total cost incl whats already been spent is approx 500mill

At this stage theres so much spent on it that they could hardly have abandoned the project!

dubhthach

munchkin_utd wrote: »

which includes the not insignificant fact that ......
"some €140 million has already been spent on this project already by the State."

Total cost incl whats already been spent is approx 500mill

At this stage theres so much spent on it that they could hardly have abandoned the project!

One would hope the same logic applies to the Arklow Gap, as far as I know the state purchased the land already. In the case of Gort to Tuam they've already spent 28% of budget and given how low agriculture land has gone they can't sell it back!

jenningso

This project had been designed and land has been bought. It is not like some of the other road schemes that have yet to be designed, never mind tendered. Critics should note this fact and also be aware of the timescales involved. The N17/18 and GCOB should have been started by now, similar projects in the other cities were completed in good days while we had to wait for such vital infrastructure , so such talk as 'whest ' political bias sickens my stomach....

dubhthach

jenningso wrote: »

This project had been designed and land has been bought. It is not like some of the other road schemes that have yet to be designed, never mind tendered. Critics should note this fact and also be aware of the timescales involved. The N17/18 and GCOB should have been started by now, similar projects in the other cities were completed in good days while we had to wait for such vital infrastructure , so such talk as 'whest ' political bias sickens my stomach....

Surely that's Wesht the main problem for the GCOB is the fact that the western half was rejected. This requires redesign/alignment change etc As a result I reckon this will probably be used to cancel that project, unless they only go ahead and build the eastern half -- how likely is that though?

Given that the M17/M18 has a consortium ready to build it (if they get can finance) it's probably a given.

Tech3

M17/M18 won't start until early 2013? That's bloody awful if true.

Sponge Bob

touts wrote: »

Yes the ideal would be motorway from ....snip snip jeez snip snip phew!

The only missing stretches of 'Motorway' in Ireland are Tuam - Cork ( part of) , Newlands +Arklow, N24 both ends , GCOB, Longford - Mullingar. Not much more than around 200km on top of the 800km or 900km we have now.

There is no justification for motorway anywhere else. 2+2 at most.

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The only missing stretches of 'Motorway' in Ireland are Tuam - Cork ( part of) , Newlands +Arklow, N24 both ends , GCOB, Longford - Mullingar. Not much more than around 200km on top of the 800km or 900km we have now.

There is no justification for motorway anywhere else. 2+2 at most.

2+2s with grade separated junctions is probably good enough for the roads. The question then is how to stop sprawl around them (M50 comes to mind). That's where the usefulness of the motorway designation comes in to play.

antoobrien

The full announcement & discussion is in the Infrastructure Plan 2012 - 2016 thread.

This project is not being shelved, funding is to be PPP (which we already knew) There is no (rpt no) mention of a toll.

There no firm timeline given. The comment (on page 15) is

The intention is to continue to pursue the Gort-Tuam PPP with a view to the project going ahead within the framework period

Not exactly a ringing endorsement, but at least it's not canned.

So back to waiting on the NRA then.

galwayrush

I could be wrong, but i imagine most of the traffic projected to use the road will be commuting to and from Galway.
I wonder what percentage of motorists using the existing the N17 will actually use it if it's tolled?
eg, it's going to be a 7 mile longer journey from Tuam to Galway one way, add the extra fuel costs combined with 2 tolls per day.
If it's tolled, will the Government guarentee any shortfall in the toll collection, if so, what's the point of a toll in the first place?

moto111

Whats the point in a toll in the first place ??
well it only costs a million to build a toll and if thats what it takes to kickstart the road so be it, either bidder would not re-tender if there wasnt a toll to guarntee them there money ( would you sign anything with our goverment under the current climate ), so it is a cheap way of getting a 1000 people back to work when the road kicks off , it would take a hell of alot more then a million euro to create a 1000 jobs today. when the country gets back on its feet, its easy to whip out the toll then if it is causing conjestion on other roads in a few years time , people you have to think out-side the box and learn to pull together in times like these. either way you have another year to wait alot can happen in a year

antoobrien

people just to be clear

There is NO mention of a toll anywhere in that document.

Speculation on where one might go and the effect on traffic has already been discussed. There's nothing to be gained from having that conversation all over again.

dubhthach

antoobrien wrote: »

people just to be clear

There is NO mention of a toll anywhere in that document.

Speculation on where one might go and the effect on traffic has already been discussed. There's nothing to be gained from having that conversation all over again.

Not only that but there is no design for toll booths etc. If there was to be some sort of physical tolling they would have to resubmit the planning application. All talk of Tolling is of "Shadow tolling", where the motorists doesn't pay anything directly but the gov pays for usuage -- no doubt it will be clawed back via increased "Carbon Tax"

How long does it take to get from Tuam to Tuam Road roundabout at 8am in the morning? Also what's the trip time going out leaving Ballybrit area at 5pm?

antoobrien

dubhthach wrote: »

How long does it take to get from Tuam to Tuam Road roundabout at 8am in the morning?

1 hour

dubhthach wrote: »

Also what's the trip time going out leaving Ballybrit area at 5pm?

funnily enough it's also 1 hour.

dubhthach

Going off the Galway County Council site the length of Motorway from start point in Tuam to Rathmorrisey is 25.5km, driving at 120km/h that will take about 13minutes. Google maps puts the travel time from site of Junction in Rathmorrisey to Doughiska as 7 minutes. That's 20 minutes in total, now obviously it depends on how long it takes to get from Doughiska to your final destination. But I would imagine 20 minutes during Rush hour would cover most of surrounding industrial estates. In that case you are looking at a 40minute commute seems like a win-win to me.

Of course the other thing to factor in is that it also means Tuam is connected to Dublin via Motorway (M17 <-> N6) as well as having motorway/dual carriageway all the way to Shannon Airport. Surely this improve the chances of attracting inward investment in the area. Esepcially given that the "Big Dig" in Tuam involves putting in a Fibre network.

antoobrien

dubhthach wrote: »

Going off the Galway County Council site the length of Motorway from start point in Tuam to Rathmorrisey is 25.5km, driving at 120km/h that will take about 13minutes. Google maps puts the travel time from site of Junction in Rathmorrisey to Doughiska as 7 minutes. That's 20 minutes in total, now obviously it depends on how long it takes to get from Doughiska to your final destination. But I would imagine 20 minutes during Rush hour would cover most of surrounding industrial estates. In that case you are looking at a 40minute commute seems like a win-win to me.

Of course the other thing to factor in is that it also means Tuam is connected to Dublin via Motorway (M17 <-> N6) as well as having motorway/dual carriageway all the way to Shannon Airport. Surely this improve the chances of attracting inward investment in the area. Esepcially given that the "Big Dig" in Tuam involves putting in a Fibre network.

I drive this road fairly regularly going to visit my brother's family (in Mayo). It's rarely less than 30 minutes to Tuam in light traffic (coming from Monivea Rd to Claregalway). The traffic on this road is so bad I usually go across country to Anach cross (near where the M17 will cross the N63) and go by the back roads into Tuam. There's probably no time saving but it's less stressful.

yayamark

Similar to above i too go cross country to avoid tuam at peak times.
i travel a fair bit from limerick to west mayo and this road would save me approx 30 mins

am i the only happy one here that this has been announced?

some amount of whinging going on.

antoobrien

yayamark wrote: »

Similar to above i too go cross country to avoid tuam at peak times.
i travel a fair bit from limerick to west mayo and this road would save me approx 30 mins

am i the only happy one here that this has been announced?

some amount of whinging going on.

I think it's more frustration at the whole process and the comments that have been made (inference that MIUs are all we need for a complete national infrastructure).

That won't stop people from being disappointed that other projects (for various reasons) have been delayed or shelved to save votes (it being easier to sell to voters to stop building roads than cut out waste in daily spending).

I'm sure there are also people that believe that there are more important projects that could have gone ahead (take a look at the MN thread) and are disappointed that Galway is getting this one.

Hell we should be getting something in the west, we have the Taoiseach & President - you couldn't have them going around on boreens could you?:rolleyes:

spacetweek

There was no q of this ever being canned; we don't can things in Ireland, just defer them. 
The full GCOB will go ahead, possibly as a toll road; the m17/18 will probably start in 2013 (M11/Newlands kicking off in 2012.)

moto111

This road M17/M18 is 100% going ahead in 2013 , the gcob will be lucky if it even starts in 2016 theres so much to get done yet to get it of the ground

LFC Murphy

Any update or news on this

antoobrien

spacetweek wrote: »

the m17/18 will probably start in 2013 (M11/Newlands kicking off in 2012.)

This seems to have been validated (if not actually confirmed) today in the DoT's press release, as the project is not included in the list of projects to start this year.

L1011

I'm getting more confident about this having some chance of going ahead

Due to there not *being* any "ten year bonds" in circulation because of not issuing any since 2010, there's no way to get the figure for the secondary market on those but 9 year ones are trading at 7.5% and shorter term ones are as low as below 6% (these were often higher than the 10 year bond until recently)

If the 'ten year' money goes to 7 or 6, expect this to proceed fairly quickly.

GalwayMagpie

Interesting musings on the 'ten year' money - I thought money was already set aside for this project.

With Galway airport on it's knees this piece of infrastructure will really open up access to Knock Airport and make access to Shannon easier.

dubhthach

GalwayMagpie wrote: »

Interesting musings on the 'ten year' money - I thought money was already set aside for this project.

With Galway airport on it's knees this piece of infrastructure will really open up access to Knock Airport and make access to Shannon easier.

Well money has been spent on purchase of the land. So that's ready to go however which ever company that gets the contract will need to finance in place in order to build it. At the moment they are having trouble raising such funds.

BluntGuy

Hopefully bonds will continue of their downward trajectory. If the sovereign looks more credible perhaps we'll be able to get 1 or 2 more modest PPP projects off the ground over the next 3-4 years.

dubhthach

dubhthach wrote: »

Well money has been spent on purchase of the land. So that's ready to go however which ever company that gets the contract will need to finance in place in order to build it. At the moment they are having trouble raising such funds.

There is also i believe a very large european investment available for this road, the land has been paid for, the planning is completed. The Government just need to come up with their part of the construction costs.