M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

glineli

beeintheknow wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why, if some Spanish lads want to build this road and toll it, why the government don't just let them?

Yeah, i thought since this was a PPP the government didnt have to put any money upfront?

Is there actual interest from this Spanish crowd or is it all just rubbish talk?

antoobrien

beeintheknow wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why, if some Spanish lads want to build this road and toll it, why the government don't just let them?

glineli wrote: »

Yeah, i thought since this was a PPP the government didnt have to put any money upfront?

Is there actual interest from this Spanish crowd or is it all just rubbish talk?

The interest appears to be real enough. AFAIK BAM have not officially pulled out and the tender is theirs until they do. They have to sigh the contract or give up the tender.

FCC did not originally tender, so I believe (open to correction on this) that it has to be offered to the 2nd place consortium - unless they also pull out. Then it'd probably have to be re-tendered due to the amount of money involved.

moto111

antoobrien wrote: »

really?

BAM have apparently won the contract for the Jackie Healy Rae Road N22 Tralee bypass.

This is the thread for M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam and Newlands cross is going ahead aswell before you here it on the radio kerry

moto111

glineli wrote: »

Yeah, i thought since this was a PPP the government didnt have to put any money upfront?

Is there actual interest from this Spanish crowd or is it all just rubbish talk?

its the NRA that has to show they have the money now to be able to pay the winning bidder thats where it is at Balfour beatty and bam have the money and so do roadbridge but its between the two of them to come in with the cheapest price then the NRA have to prove to them they can pay it back

L1011

dubhthach wrote: »

Indeed the airport has always been problematic. It should never have been built in Carnmore, from what I recall reading was that the original proposal back in the 1970's was the Army shooting range in Oranmore which was the former RFC/RAF landing strip.

However Carnmore was built by a german industrialist who had a factory near by. I recall back in the 1990's there was a proposal to move the Airport to Oranmore where at least you could build a runway that was long enough to take 737's. If I recall right one reason that Dept. of Defence was opposed was due to the fact that they hope to develop Oranmore site as a Business park in the future -- my memory bit hazy on this.

The airport was in Oranmore on the old airbase originally. You can just about make out the line of the runway from aerial photographs.

Just really ran Aer Arann Islands and some general aviation though.

dubhthach

MYOB wrote: »

The airport was in Oranmore on the old airbase originally. You can just about make out the line of the runway from aerial photographs.

Just really ran Aer Arann Islands and some general aviation though.

Indeed well with grass runway and no facilities. They were gonna put in a proper runway etc until the runway at Carnmore was built.

spacetweek

moto111 wrote: »

There will be NO road going ahead until mid 2013 the earliest and that itself is a maybe it is looking like mid 2014 this information is 100%

Source, source, source.

yaledo

Hi,

Near Gort, just North of the asphalt plant, on the grass verge on either side of the road - there are what appear to be measurement devices. Anyone know what these are for?
Each one looks like a white tube with a hat. The tube stands upright, about 8cm in diameter, and 80 cm high, bright white in colour. The hat is also white, it is about 15cm in diameter and it covers the top of the tube.

There are two pairs of these, maybe 500m apart. Each pair consists of one of these tubes on either of the road, directly across from each other. I think they are at varying distances from the road's edge, and at varying heights above road level.

Carawaystick

yaledo wrote: »

Hi,

Near Gort, just North of the asphalt plant, on the grass verge on either side of the road - there are what appear to be measurement devices. Anyone know what these are for?
Each one looks like a white tube with a hat. The tube stands upright, about 8cm in diameter, and 80 cm high, bright white in colour. The hat is also white, it is about 15cm in diameter and it covers the top of the tube.

There are two pairs of these, maybe 500m apart. Each pair consists of one of these tubes on either of the road, directly across from each other. I think they are at varying distances from the road's edge, and at varying heights above road level.

Gas pipeline undreneath

yaledo

Thanks Carawaystick

So they simply mark the route of the pipeline, it seems that that 'hat' is there so that they can be seen from overhead, like the "aerial markers" pictured at:
http://www.linewatch.co.uk/pdf/PipelineMarker_9-1.pdf

spacetweek

They may also be flowmeters.

Morebypasses

Any update in the local Galway media etc on this project?????? Shame its been put on long finger by new government.

spacetweek

Morebypasses wrote: »

Any update in the local Galway media etc on this project?????? Shame its been put on long finger by new government.

That's not really it. It's more that a satisfactory way of funding it is not forthcoming as yet. I'm still confident this could kick off by the end of the year.

mayo23

Why aren't they building the M17 and M18 sections as two seperate schemes?

In my opinion, the M17 should be built first, at least to the tuam side of claregalway. At least then the worst bottleneck on the N17 would be bypassed and you'd only need to build around 8 to 10km of the motorway.

The rest can wait.

muchos04

The reality is it will probably not be built for a very long time. Infrastructure projects like this will probably be sidelined in the upcoming expenditure review in September.

spacetweek

muchos04 wrote: »

The reality is it will probably not be built for a very long time. Infrastructure projects like this will probably be sidelined in the upcoming expenditure review in September.

Unacceptable on economic and job creation grounds.

L1011

muchos04 wrote: »

The reality is it will probably not be built for a very long time. Infrastructure projects like this will probably be sidelined in the upcoming expenditure review in September.

If it ends up as a tolled PPP there's no expenditure to sideline...

Benbecul97

Given the financial situation they should park this joint M17/M18 effort and just complete the M18 from Gort to intersect with the M6.

Its a complete joke that Limerick and Ennis are not fully connected with motorway standard road to Galway.

L1011

Benbecul97 wrote: »

Given the financial situation they should park this joint M17/M18 effort and just complete the M18 from Gort to intersect with the M6.

Its a complete joke that Limerick and Ennis are not fully connected with motorway standard road to Galway.

Would require a new tendering process, a redesign of the junction and similar. Would delay it for at least another year.

Benbecul97

MYOB wrote: »

Would require a new tendering process, a redesign of the junction and similar. Would delay it for at least another year.

why? why not just build the interconnection with the M6 and leave north of the M6 like Gort is now left - ready for the next phase.

antoobrien

mayo23 wrote: »

In my opinion, the M17 should be built first, at least to the tuam side of claregalway. At least then the worst bottleneck on the N17 would be bypassed and you'd only need to build around 8 to 10km of the motorway.

Given the route it's not really an option. The plan brings the road east of Lackagh and if I'm reading the map right Turloughmore villages, near the existing Annagh crossroads. The CG bypass would be a better option than that. Besides the N63 (Roscommon Rd) as it is can't take an extra 10-15k vehicles per day without a serious upgrade and there'd be a lot more traffic using the Athenry-Tuam road if this section was built on it's own. There is no realistic way of splitting this part of the project.

On the other hand they could split the N18 portion as it is planned to cross the existing road at Kiltiernan (a possible toll site under the FCC offer) about two miles north of Ardrahan.

Benbecul97 wrote: »

Its a complete joke that Limerick and Ennis are not fully connected with motorway standard road to Galway.

Be that as it may, the N18 is not as important to Galway city as the M17 section - the majority of the traffic comes from north Galway not south Galway (I've never really had a problem getting into Galway from gort at 4pm on a saturday, the traffic backs up to the N63 regularly on the N17.

L1011

Benbecul97 wrote: »

why? why not just build the interconnection with the M6 and leave north of the M6 like Gort is now left - ready for the next phase.

That is inherently a new junction design. The junction planned is a triple level stack, it would be impossible to part-build it while leaving it capable of having construction resumed and it would be unsafe to build it and leave the M17/18 section unused.

Benbecul97

antoobrien wrote: »

Be that as it may, the N18 is not as important to Galway city as the M17 section - the majority of the traffic comes from north Galway not south Galway (I've never really had a problem getting into Galway from gort at 4pm on a saturday, the traffic backs up to the N63 regularly on the N17.

traffic wise perhaps, but economic wise??

antoobrien

Benbecul97 wrote: »

traffic wise perhaps, but economic wise??

From what I hear from factories, most of the goods out of galway go to dublin port as it is. So from that pov getting the larger number of employees to galway quicker makes economic sense. Besides, while I don't drive it as often, IMO the N18 is probably a bit better than the N17 for the amount of traffic that uses it.

Benbecul97

antoobrien wrote: »

From what I hear from factories, most of the goods out of galway go to dublin port as it is. So from that pov getting the larger number of employees to galway quicker makes economic sense. Besides, while I don't drive it as often, IMO the N18 is probably a bit better than the N17 for the amount of traffic that uses it.

So there are more people using the N17 to get into the city to work than are using the N18 to get into the city to work?

antoobrien

Benbecul97 wrote: »

So there are more people using the N17 to get into the city to work than are using the N18 to get into the city to work?

That's my impression yes, however there's no counter figures north of Gort to back this up (Gort counter is now bypassed by new N18).

glineli

antoobrien wrote: »

That's my impression yes, however there's no counter figures north of Gort to back this up (Gort counter is now bypassed by new N18).

This is only my opinion, but i think its more important to have the M17/18 built. I think from an economic pov, to have Galway - Shannon - Limerick joined via motorway can define an economic region that could be used for any future regional development plans. I dont believe this is just about the people traveling to work in Galway in the mornings, its more about the Galway to Limerick corridor.

etchyed

MYOB wrote: »

That is inherently a new junction design. The junction planned is a triple level stack, it would be impossible to part-build it while leaving it capable of having construction resumed and it would be unsafe to build it and leave the M17/18 section unused.

How would it be unsafe to build the whole interchange (including a few hundred metres of M17) and then just leave the M17 section closed?

antoobrien

etchyed wrote: »

How would it be unsafe to build the whole interchange (including a few hundred metres of M17) and then just leave the M17 section closed?

Not very, that's more or less what they did with the start of the N6 at Kinnegad and the Killbeggan to Athlone section.

The proposed junction is a 3 tier stack, the middle layer being for turning and the north/southbound traffic being the top layer. To do what you're suggesting, they should only have to build the roundabout tier and bring the N18 as far as the northern side of the junction (where the M17 would begin/end).

Maybe FCC could redesign it to be fully freeflow

L1011

antoobrien wrote: »

Not very, that's more or less what they did with the start of the N6 at Kinnegad and the Killbeggan to Athlone section.

The proposed junction is a 3 tier stack, the middle layer being for turning and the north/southbound traffic being the top layer. To do what you're suggesting, they should only have to build the roundabout tier and bring the N18 as far as the northern side of the junction (where the M17 would begin/end).

Maybe FCC could redesign it to be fully freeflow

Building only the middle two layers would mean that the entire junction - and the road beneath - would need to be closed for periods AGAIN to construction the top layer.

Building the top layer would effectively leave numerous ski jumps - the slips to the M17 section from the roundabout and the main top layer itself - that some elderly woman like that at Moate would invariably drive over.

I'd love if they could design it to be freeflow, especially as the main reason for the triple level was to allow an MSA to be glued on to it, but that would require new planning permissions, possibly a new EIS, etc etc.