The D4 Accent - And how it gets around

Tim Robbins

Julesie wrote: »

Are people judging me as being fake somehow as I don't have a typical Dublin/North Kildare accent? What is a typical accent for someone from Leixlip? What's influenced how I sound?

Oh well, at least I can't properly pronouce my "th's" so I'll always be a little bit Irish.

Leixlip is basically Dublin. Cue Trevor Brennan.

Whiskey Devil

I know somebody who went to school with Miriam O'Callaghan and apparently they were 'thought' to speak like that. I had to laugh when she was interviewing John Spillane and he was talking about Irish singers that sing in their own accent, and not a put on American accent. What about chat show presenters who speak with an phony D4 accent!! I'm living in Monkstown at the moment and I haven't really come across anybody with that D4 accent! Overheard one or two on the DORT talking about having a MOWMENT. I was raging listening to her. Luckily, I'm not a violent man.

nicola09

As bad as the D4 accent is, the thing that annoys me most is people who go "up" at the end of every sentence, like everything is a question! "It's such a, like, weird new phenomonon??? I hope everyone here, like, gets what I'm trying to, like, explain????":pac::pac:

starflake

Cianos wrote: »

As we grow we are way more influenced by our peers than by our parents. Genetics are passed down, but for everything else we gather influence way more from our surroundings than our parents. As an example of this in relation to accents, is that very often you will have children of immigrants with a thick local accent so long as they have grown up in the country - think of all those Asian americans with twangy American accents, sounding nothing like their parents.

So I think the D4 accent is a product of the fact that TV is the main focal point common in nearly all youngsters, because of course most TV is of American origin, thus the American twang finds its way in to otherwise quite neutral accents (south Dublin accent being one of them).

If TV is the biggest influence in a person's accent then why do young people all around Ireland not talk with an American accent??

Why is it just Dublin?

finisklin

Maybe we should launch a campaign to out these aspiring wannabes....if you can't afford a house in D4 then drop the accent, particularly if you live outside the pale!

It is an interesting social exercise that people aspiring to a certain level, position in life mirror their perception of it with a view to fulfilling the goal. This can include career goal, peer groups, life skills/approach/outlook, dress sense etc. I think its mad personally, but sure I'm from the country so what do I know.:P

fear no bean

The difference between a clear accent and the backward vowel-mangling disgrace being discussed here is most clearly demonstrated by comparing two of RTÉ's voices. Ken Hammond (news reader) vs. Emma McNamara (business correspondent).
It's a mystery how someone with such a severe speech impediment got to such a position with a national broadcaster.

tolosenc

I find the accent, from a phonetician's point of view, to be quit interesting. However, claims that it is "American" are quite unfounded. Assuming by "America" people mean the Unites States, there are countless accents there: New York, New England, Southern, Mid-West, Appalaichan, Texas, Praries, Southern California, Northern California, Oregon, Washington and AAVE to name a handful.

There are features of the accent that are classically pointed out. I'll take the word "roysh" as an example. In all North American accents with which I am familiar, the pronounciation of the vowel sound here ranges from 'ah' to 'I'. However, in working class, or "North" Dublin, it is 'oy'. This is therefore and indiginous pronunciation to the area. The 'sh' instead of a 't' is a parody on the common Irish lenited pronounciation of the letter t. In no other English-language accent is the letter t pronounced as such. In NA it is usually a brief tap, often indistinguishable from a d or an r. Similar in Oz. In NZ and UK, it is pronounced as a full plosive. In some areas of London and Scotland(may be more, this is just personal experience) it is "omitted", or rather replaced by a glottal stop. Only in Ireland does the 'sh'-like allophone of the phoneme, orthographically represented by the letter t, exist.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

But the D4 accent is a mis-pronouciation of vowels.

That's called a vowel shift. It's actually quite common in a lot of places as an indicator of a sociolect (like a dialect, but based on sicial standing rather than location)

Other words just come out through the nose. Which again is incorrect because there are no nasals sounds in English.

You're talking out your arse here, I'm afraid. I count at fewest 5 consonants, as well as the fact that all vowels before nasal consonants are themselves nasalised in English. Ladefoged reckons that fewer than 3 in every 1000 languages don't contain nasals.

And about it being incorrect, one always analyses a person's language use descriptively, not prescriptively. If you had any knowledge of linguistics, which your post makes it sound like you think that you do, you would know that.

rainbowtrout

starflake wrote: »

If TV is the biggest influence in a person's accent then why do young people all around Ireland not talk with an American accent??

Why is it just Dublin?

I live and teach in Roscommon and the amount of teenage girls in class that speak with an American accent is unbelieveable. I've pulled them up on it a few times, it's so irritating. Not one boy speaks like that, they all sound like they've come straight from the mart!

I met one of my former students a couple of days ago. I'm from Limerick originally and he is now in UL the past year. He told me that I had no Limerick accent based on the people he's met over the year and I am 'pure' Roscommon. I had to laugh.

Cianos

starflake wrote: »

If TV is the biggest influence in a person's accent then why do young people all around Ireland not talk with an American accent??

Why is it just Dublin?

I don't know, but someone said that it can be found in Limerick and Cork as well...ie the bigger cities and towns. So I suspect that as with everything, the influence of accent is a lot more powerful in a city than in the countryside.

Tim Robbins

Toulousain wrote: »

You're talking out your arse here, I'm afraid. I count at fewest 5 consonants, as well as the fact that all vowels before nasal consonants are themselves nasalised in English. Ladefoged reckons that fewer than 3 in every 1000 languages don't contain nasals.

And about it being incorrect, one always analyses a person's language use descriptively, not prescriptively. If you had any knowledge of linguistics, which your post makes it sound like you think that you do, you would know that.

Excuse my lack of expertise. But would you not agree the D4 is a lot more nassely than the average Irish accent?

OK-Cancel-Apply

Most people here are confused and really don't know what they're talking about. The accent you associate with Dublin 4 is not what you think. It's young people emulating their favourite 'OMG' celebrity. THAT'S what's spreading around the country.

People from D4, parts of D18 and Co. Dublin tend to sound a tad more 'English' than people from other parts. This dates back many years. Yes, OP, it's older than you. Look at some RTE (or should I say 'Ahh T E') archive footage. People used to sound FULLY English back in the day. Seriously, if you've never seen old school RTE, you'll be amazed.

When will people on boards stop slagging others off for their accent? It's petty and it grinds my gears...

finisklin

I love the accent of the Irish speaking newsreaders (as gaeilge no bearla) there's something authorative, informative about it. It is quite compelling about it and it has a Dublin feel to it but yet the friendliness of the country remains. They're not quite D4 but are definitely in that state of mind. Maybe its an RTE thing? :cool:

Maybe I'm just going on looks and confusing the two?;)

I better not mention gaybo and the soft and hard t which is a good test of a D4 head.

tolosenc

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Excuse my lack of expertise. But would you not agree the D4 is a lot more nassely than the average Irish accent?

Some, yes. Others, no. Certainly not those from the North of the Island. Even Louth is more nasal. Again, I would describe the 'D4' accent as a better enunciated incarnation of what you find on the northside.

dRNk SAnTA

From my experience it's mainly women who have the worst D4 accents.

But come on it's not that bad, how about some bitching about people who don't bother pronouncing "TH" properly? Or people who use "like" multiple times in a sentence. People who don't use proper grammar or people who lose all adjectives other than "disgrace" everytime they get upset about something.

There's far worse than D4 out there....

topper75

Toulousain wrote: »

one always analyses a person's language use descriptively, not prescriptively.

So is our hatred of this newly invented and utter shambolic cockanology of a way of talking completely invalidated then by one's studies?

tolosenc

topper75 wrote: »

So is our hatred of this newly invented and utter shambolic cockanology of a way of talking completely invalidated then by one's studies?

No. Read what I said.

Hatred of an accent is quite absurd, and somewhat egotistical. All accents are equally correct.

Calling something incorrect does not constitute hatred of it.

Whose studies?

Red_Marauder

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Most people here are confused and really don't know what they're talking about. The accent you associate with Dublin 4 is not what you think. It's young people emulating their favourite 'OMG' celebrity. THAT'S what's spreading around the country.

Nobody is saying it's limited geographically, that's the point. It's called the D4 accent largely because of its original prominence among teenagers attending private Dublin schools, many of whom may live in South Dublin.

People from D4, parts of D18 and Co. Dublin tend to sound a tad more 'English' than people from other parts. This dates back many years. Yes, OP, it's older than you. Look at some RTE (or should I say 'Ahh T E') archive footage. People used to sound FULLY English back in the day. Seriously, if you've never seen old school RTE, you'll be amazed.

That's to do with the anglo-Irish element of broadcasting which clashed with the Irish accent and resulted in a sort of 'telephone voice' that was reasonably common outside of Donnybrook anyway. With some exceptions, it did often have a recognisably Irish slant. Anyway, all of this is a million miles away from what is now known, rightly or wrongly, in popular culture, as the D4 accent. Hence we refer to it here as such.

When will people on boards stop slagging others off for their accent? It's petty and it grinds my gears...

It's not about slagging. It doesn't even bother most people, it's just interesting. If people started suddenly talking in a French accent wouldn't you think it strange?

tennessee time

Tim Robbins wrote: »

BOD possibly went to elocution lessons. I'll grant you that. But the D4 accent is a mis-pronouciation of vowels.

"a" becomes "o" as "dart" becoming "dort".

Other words just come out through the nose. Which again is incorrect because there are no nasals sounds in English.

Several boggers conflate well spoken, D4, middle class and anglo irish accents (Mr. Norris for example) all into the one accent.

I worked with a bogger once who was convinced I was Ross O'Carroll Kelly.
D4 poshies would probably consider me stereotypical Northside. It's pathetic!

Bogger i guess is taken to mean anyone not from dublin - he sounds like a good judge of character , you sure he wasnt just convinced youre an asshole , youve convinced me already..

Tim Robbins

tennessee time wrote: »

Bogger i guess is taken to mean anyone not from dublin - he sounds like a good judge of character , you sure he wasnt just convinced youre an asshole , youve convinced me already..

He actually preferred to referred to as a Bogger. Personally I detest the generalisation of culchies.

Vim Fuego

I went to college with a few people like this. One girl had an Arklow accent in first year, and now she sounds like the usual 'oh moy gawd' crowd. Similar to some of the ladies in work. I suppose that's what I get for working in 'morketing'.

What is it about? Is it from being ashamed of your supposedly 'bog' accent and so you conform to what you think you should sound like? If so, why pick something so annoying?

A7X

Tim Robbins wrote: »

He actually preferred to referred to as a Bogger. Personally I detest the generalisation of culchies.

:rolleyes:

Kalashnikov_Kid

Tim Robbins wrote: »

He actually preferred to referred to as a Bogger. Personally I detest the generalisation of culchies.

Oh the wit...

dresden8

pikachucheeks wrote: »

I personally blame MTV and various other American media that's infiltrated Ireland.

My cousin watches loads of different American TV on Nickelodeon : 'Drake and Josh', 'Hannah Montana' etc ... When she was seven, she asked me who I had a "super crush" on! Scary.

Their lingo and accents are infectious. Never mind Swine Flu, Americanisms are the real danger, roysh!

The rot set in when a take-away became "take-out".

Bastard Friends and Rachels haircut.

Not to mention the Australian soap way of making every statement a question.

tallus

My name is URL wrote: »

I have relations in Donnybrook and they sound nothing like the roish crowd

it's all a fcuking act with the people that use the accent, and they need a slap

That's spot on ..I worked with several guys from Donnybrook and they had normal Dublin accents, none of that D4 Crapola.

jumbone

Diddler82 wrote: »

Agree completely!!

Working in recruitment I come across these very regularily.

The worst and definitely most pretentious was a young lady last week who told me that she would be out of the office tomorrow but she would be contactable on her "Blackberry".

Its a glorified fcuking mobile phone and she was not called again!

She was inviting you to email her.

Jackeenboy

Do yous Irish people not realise???
The American accent, actually originates from the west of Ireland accent from when the Irish emigrated in their thousands around the time of the famine and after..The american accent is basically an Irish accent, mixed in with so many other nationalities from around Europe and around the world that ended up as the American accent. Abit like a mix of Arnold Swharzeneger and a farmer from Galway.

My theory on the D4 accent is that a posh Irish accent naturally sounds like an American accent..There are very few American sounding British people are there??..Now, we, the English, see as much American movies and tv programmes as the Irish do so that excuse is nonsense..
It is true that, the Irish helped build places like Montreal and Chicago..
The native Americans didnt have an American accent.
A posh Cork, Dublin, Galway, Mayo accent does sound alot like an American accent and u could not tell what part of the country they were from. In England if u have a Manchester accent, theres no way u could try and squeeze in a hint of the American accent as it would just sound stupid likewise for any other part of England, just wouldnt sound right..

Tim Robbins

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »

Oh the wit...

Glad someone got it.

stovelid

You're all so cynical. The accent, even in its area of origin, is aspirational.

So, if we want, we can all aspire to be arseholes.

All we need do is believe.

dresden8

stovelid wrote: »

You're all so cynical. The accent, even in its area of origin, is aspirational.

So, if we want, we can all aspire to be arseholes.

All we need do is believe.

Yes we can!

dresden8

Change (of accents) we can believe in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!