The D4 Accent - And how it gets around

Red_Marauder

Now before people say this belongs in a Dublin forum, one of my biggest issues with this accent is that it actually doesn't. It's becoming a nationwide thing in all cities (less so in rural Ireland) and I really wonder sometimes where this ridiculous accent ever came from because it isn't related to geography.

The accent itself doesn't bother me as such, though it can be hard to listen to when users insist on taking it to extremes and at an unnecessarily high volume (buses, shopping centres and starbucks are the biggest offenders). It's just so obviously new and invented, where on earth was this accent in the 1980's or previous? I'm 23 and I'd reckon that I am older than it.

My own theory is that the traditional 'RTE' accent was a hybrid of the old 'valid' Dublin accent and a vaguely Anglo-Irish accent. This itself was an artificial construct that was widely copied and as such, with the advent of American TV, became easily replaced, or more accurately 'aggravated'. It is less of an accent and more of a terrible social marking that some people desperately wish to tag themselves with, assuming it gives them some desirabe social characteristic.

Like most people my accent reflects the places I grew up in and how my parents speak. The old 'Dublin 4 accent' was largely anglo-Irish and far more valid in terms of its origin than the current model. How that new model came to be used in Limerick, Galway and Cork is itself amusing.

Are there any people out there with this accent, particularly outside of Dublin, whose accent differs to their parents and neighbours, who could shed some light on this? I'm not being critical by the way, just interested.

WIZE

Don't worry
The recesson will bring the old accents back

tennessee time

dublin 4 = anglo irish ?? then why when we say that to these people do they get so defensive?? think its cooler these days to be an east yank than a west brit??

genericguy

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Now before people say this belongs in a Dublin forum, one of my biggest issues with this accent is that it actually doesn't. It's becoming a nationwide thing in all cities (less so in rural Ireland) and I really wonder sometimes where this ridiculous accent ever came from because it isn't related to geography.

The accent itself doesn't bother me as such, though it can be hard to listen to when users insist on taking it to extremes and at an unnecessarily high volume (buses, shopping centres and starbucks are the biggest offenders). It's just so obviously new and invented, where on earth was this accent in the 1980's or previous? I'm 23 and I'd reckon that I am older than it.

My own theory is that the traditional 'RTE' accent was a hybrid of the old 'valid' Dublin accent and a vaguely Anglo-Irish accent. This itself was an artificial construct that was widely copied and as such, with the advent of American TV, became easily replaced, or more accurately 'aggravated'. It is less of an accent and more of a terrible social marking that some people desperately wish to tag themselves with, assuming it gives them some desirabe social characteristic.

Like most people my accent reflects the places I grew up in and how my parents speak. The old 'Dublin 4 accent' was largely anglo-Irish and far more valid in terms of its origin than the current model. How that new model came to be used in Limerick, Galway and Cork is itself amusing.

Are there any people out there with this accent, particularly outside of Dublin, whose accent differs to their parents and neighbours, who could shed some light on this? I'm not being critical by the way, just interested.

i think it's become more widespread since the heads of the D4 jedi council started sending groups of young men out to nightclubs to kick those without the accent to death.

jdivision

I know three people from Clonmel who have bigger D4 accents than anybody I know who's actually from D4.

stereo_steve

I'm always amazed how the "D4" accent gets so much attention. Its very easy to understand what someone is saying when they have a D4 accent.

I find I need subtitles for some of our west coast friends. Yet this is much more acceptable.

super_furry

It's an interesting social phenomenon. Bob Geldof's the first person I know of to have one - listen to him during his Boomtown Rats day and he could be doing an AA Roadwatch report.

My name is URL

I have relations in Donnybrook and they sound nothing like the roish crowd

it's all a fcuking act with the people that use the accent, and they need a slap

Seaneh

I have family from the heartland of this accent, when visiting them about 8 years ago I was in my cousin's living room when his eldest son (around my age) walks into the house with a few friends and comes over chatting to me about rugby (we both played), he has a fairly normal south Dublin city accent much like his mum, dad and older sister but his mates, jesus their accents were amazingly annoying, so my cousin (the father) starts to one of the young lads asking about how his parents are etc, young lad replys in fake accent "on yeah, they're greash, doiddy and mommy are off to st. tropez on sunday for the week... My cousin cuts him off midsentence "where in the name of christ did you pull that accent out of James? You had a dublin accent about 6 months ago!" young lad goes scarlet and starts talking in his normal accent.

So yeah, I reckon 90% of it is put on so they sound like the "cool" kids in their private schools (these lads went to blackrock).

fingerbob

I think its a similiar thing with the Belfast malone road accent. I live a good bit outside of belfast and I know plenty of people who speak with a slight american aspect to their accent. I'm not being sectarian but I have always associated it with protestants (but in saying that I've also came across catholics with it too although they're usually the posh well to do type), my own girlfriend being one who has the accent and her parents both have strong east belfast accents so she didnt get it from them. I giver her a wild amount of abuse about it.

Red_Marauder

stereo_steve wrote: »

I'm always amazed how the "D4" accent gets so much attention. Its very easy to understand what someone is saying when they have a D4 accent.

The issue isn't that it's hard to understand, it's very easy to understand in fact. It's just that it's such a bizarrely Americanised way of speaking and quite unrecognisable to any Irish accent. I'm sure you'd find that Irish people speaking with a French, Italian or Aussie twang for no apparent reason would raise eyebrows also!

Blazer

D4 accent...does that sound like that twat reporter on Newstalk FM?
Christ I wanna smack him one. No idea what his name is but I'm sure anyone who listens to Newstalk has heard him at least once.

Fratton Fred

Did you see the two 17 year old twins from Dublin on the X-Factor?

First question Simon Cowell asks them is "If you're Irish, why are you talking with an American accent?"

Irish Trinity

those guys accents were a joke i wouldnt have thought they were irish unless they said it. I dont really understand whys it called the D4 accent most people i know from D4 would talk normally you get the accent in different places all over the city.

pikachucheeks

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Did you see the two 17 year old twins from Dublin on the X-Factor?

First question Simon Cowell asks them is "If you're Irish, why are you talking with an American accent?"

I personally blame MTV and various other American media that's infiltrated Ireland.

My cousin watches loads of different American TV on Nickelodeon : 'Drake and Josh', 'Hannah Montana' etc ... When she was seven, she asked me who I had a "super crush" on! Scary.

Their lingo and accents are infectious. Never mind Swine Flu, Americanisms are the real danger, roysh!

Horsefumbler

Interesting point being raised here. I think some people definitely put on their accent for some reason.

My sister is an example but she goes in the other direction. We live in leixlip which is borderline between the bog and dublin leaving most like myself with a fairly neutral irish accent. And she has it too. But as soon as one of here mates is around or the phone rings she puts on a skangery accent giving it all 'bleedin' this' and 'effen this' and 'cmere till i tell ya that' etc Has been doing it for years and it so obvious (and funny)the way she switches it on.

One thing I find with not having a strong accent myself is that depending on you are in the presence of can kind of change your accent a bit. Like I find sometimes being around lots of dublinish people in work I start to pick up there phrases and eventually their accents almost subconciously. And the opposite happens in college where its mostly culchies. Maybe something like this could be a facter in the proliferation of the D4 accent?

Red_Marauder

Horsefumbler wrote: »

One thing I find with not having a strong accent myself is that depending on you are in the presence of can kind of change your accent a bit. Like I find sometimes being around lots of dublinish people in work I start to pick up there phrases and eventually their accents almost subconciously. And the opposite happens in college where its mostly culchies. Maybe something like this could be a facter in the proliferation of the D4 accent?

That's quite true and in fairness, you can't realistically expect a 16 or 17 year old kid to be more concerned about the "integrity" of his accent (whatever that is!) than speaking like his or her mates do.

Similiarly, I went to college with a guy with a strong private school Dublin accent, doing a particularly agricultural course, who often now drifts in an out of speaking like a Co. Clare farmer, seemingly unconsciously!

I guess what really interests me about the accent is that some people seem to think it belongs to desirable position in a social hierarchy. In fact, it's the opposite and may reflect some social insecurities. It is often the linguistic equivalent of a traveller who grew up in a caravan throwing a huge expensive wedding just to prove a point.

A very wise piece of advice might be 'One of the first rules about having money, is to never talk about money'. Talking with a D4 accent when it isn't natural to do so for your situation doesn't reflect 'social position' at all.

An Fear Aniar

People pick up that accent in college (third level) I think.

.

Napoli

The media and the bombardment of American TV shows is definitely to blame. It's not just the accent that the kids pick up, but also the phrases.

A study was done a while back investigating how Friends impacted on our everyday speech. It came across people who said things like "could I be any more sarcastic?" á la Chandler and the whole coffee shop culture where people "do" lunch.

Kipperhell

I heard a linguistics expert talk about accent spread and he explained it as follows using my words but pretty much what he said.

Accents are mostly spread by woman and come from aspirational thoughts. If one accent is seen as the upper class ascent woman will emulate it no matter where they are. The D4 ascent is heavily influenced now by American television in structure and tone. Men are much slower to change ascents but normally do due to correction by partners. Men will have a different ascent based on their partner more so than location and background. It sounds sexist but the study of how it spreads shows this is what happens.

Not sure if I believe it but as he knew the origin of most words and has studied the subject as an expert for years you got to think he might know.

KTRIC

Its not an accent, its just people trying to be overly pretentious.

Ohh look at me I have a "certain" accent and I'm therefore better than you.

Simple as that.

Latchy

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Now before people say this belongs in a Dublin forum, one of my biggest issues with this accent is that it actually doesn't. It's becoming a nationwide thing in all cities (less so in rural Ireland) and I really wonder sometimes where this ridiculous accent ever came from because it isn't related to geography.

True, Fact that it can be heard in other citys in Ireland means it's not pin pointed to being exclusivly Dublin

The accent itself doesn't bother me as such, though it can be hard to listen to when users insist on taking it to extremes and at an unnecessarily high volume (buses, shopping centres and starbucks are the biggest offenders). It's just so obviously new and invented, where on earth was this accent in the 1980's or previous? I'm 23 and I'd reckon that I am older than it.

I haven't lived in Ireland since the late 80s and assuming it's the accent in question you are refering to , it was around but maybe not as much as now .Back then I do recall it was not uncommon if you knew somebody from say a council estaate ( only as example ) who moved to maybe a area considered to be........ for want of a better words ' more posh 'or ' upmarket ' ....to meet them 6 or 12 months later with slightly more polished vowls to their accent and the rough edges gone form the previous one

Now there is nothing wrong with speaking well or wanting to speak well , it's good mannered , nice on the ears and who wants to hear continious explicitives after every other word anyway ? . But remembering that many people are just brought up to speak with a nice clear pleasent accent regardless of which part of Dublin city they come from .

My own theory is that the traditional 'RTE' accent was a hybrid of the old 'valid' Dublin accent and a vaguely Anglo-Irish accent. This itself was an artificial construct that was widely copied and as such, with the advent of American TV, became easily replaced, or more accurately 'aggravated'. It is less of an accent and more of a terrible social marking that some people desperately wish to tag themselves with, assuming it gives them some desirabe social characteristic.

I always use to think their was a connection between RTE tv and radio announcers ,and American tv if only because as you mention in Dublin ,even back in the 80s , some teens would be chatting on a bus like they stepped out of some Californian soap opera with an American / Irish accent of sorts and acting the parts to .You would like now, wonder about it ...for 3 minutes

Like most people my accent reflects the places I grew up in and how my parents speak. The old 'Dublin 4 accent' was largely anglo-Irish and far more valid in terms of its origin than the current model. How that new model came to be used in Limerick, Galway and Cork is itself amusing.

I have noticed that in my travels around Ireland to , specially in some suburbs of Cork ,Wexford and the Shannon region .

Are there any people out there with this accent, particularly outside of Dublin, whose accent differs to their parents and neighbours, who could shed some light on this? I'm not being critical by the way, just interested.

My south Dublin accent has mellowed a bit since I came to England but it was never strong in the first place .I am however, pleasently surprised / amused when an English person will say on hearing my accent '' oh your from Dublin '' as opposed to saying '' your from Ireland ''

My two sisters, both born in Dublin also live abroad ,one in Hollond one in Jersey and their Englsih as spoken now is from those places ie, Dutch and Jersey spoken English . So my response is just lighthearted , from another angle and probably not best placed to help you shed more light on this

lucylu

I love the D4 accent.. I could listen to those Ringsend and Pearse St. folk all day

finisklin

Remember D4 is a state of mind....not a place!

Salvelinus

pikachucheeks wrote: »

I personally blame MTV and various other American media that's infiltrated Ireland.

My cousin watches loads of different American TV on Nickelodeon : 'Drake and Josh', 'Hannah Montana' etc ... When she was seven, she asked me who I had a "super crush" on! Scary.

Their lingo and accents are infectious. Never mind Swine Flu, Americanisms are the real danger, roysh!

No, it says a lot more about Ireland than MTV or America.

pawrick

so it's the womens fault - glad we cleared that one up!

Just back from a weekend in Bristol where my friend now lives - she speaks the Queens English, drinks pimms at lords etc. and doen't have an accent according to her - had a great time except for having my "th" issues pointed out at every oppertunity by her!

I'm a midlander originally but would have an ok ish acccent, as in most people would not be able to place me (or might mistake me as russian as polish people seem to?). But I do tend to blend with the accent of the people I'm speaking to without realising it - still though can't do a "th"

some accents are annoying but they're all interesting/funny and a good part of our country.

--Kaiser--

....and then I said....pretentious...moi?!

gamgsam

Having lived all around Ireland and a bit abroad I catch myslef drifting between accents a lot, but not in a fake way, it's just a natural thing to help other people understand me I suppose. My english friend talks to me and all our friends with a hint of a limerick accent, but then when he talks to his mum it sounds like monty python... Accents often get pulled out when talking to different people

That said though, I HATE HATE HATE that stupid fake american thing that Irish people love doing now. Making a statement sound like a question. I'll shoot myself if I ever do it. That Miriam one on rte is one of the worst. If I'm talking to someone and they start that craic I have to excuse myself and leave, I just can't take them seriously anymore!

dats_right

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Did you see the two 17 year old twins from Dublin on the X-Factor?

First question Simon Cowell asks them is "If you're Irish, why are you talking with an American accent?"

I saw that too. Have to say, I never had any respect for Cowell until then.

Fratton Fred

My Niece has me in stitches with her accent. she grew up in south West london and although she has irish parents, her accent was very Souf Lahndan. She's been at School in Dalkey for three years now and although she stills greets me with a "Awright Fred, ows it goin...innit" when she with her mates everything is "like todally awesome like"

*giggles*

In the Ross O'Carroll-Kelly books, he writes phonetically, and even explains the origin of the accent in his Guide To South Dublin:

"It is a form of creolized English, a hybrid of the language used by British aristocracy and that spoken by the characters from popular American television programmes, such as Friends......
To understand young people, it might be helpful to watch a DVD box set, or two, of Dawson's Creek or Sex And The City"

He goes on to explain how words are pronounced and liberally uses linguistic crutches such as "like".
I suppose it's just another dialect spoken in this country. This one happens to be spoken in one specific region in our fine capital, but aren't there so many differant dialects within Dublin alone?

I have family in this part of the world, and I don't find anything wrong with their accents.

Repolho

I'm originally from Offaly too but haven't lived there in over 12 years, having done stints in dublin, galway, tipp and cork.

I think I have the generic irish accent that some people have mentioned.

My wife tells me though that whenever I am up home or after watching Pure Mule that my Offaly accent is much heavier!

I think that if you are surrounded by an accent it is going to influence you. This is probably why alot of people on TV & Radio have this accent which might be some of the reason that it is spreading?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

It's all about the vowels. I find it as annoying as I find the put on Northside accent funny. If you go to Bray they have a very distinctive accent. Go a few miles down the Road to Greystones and you get alot of over pronounced vowels. This of course makes them more important just like it makes the middle class kids with the working class accent less so. If you go to Balbriggan (just foe teen miles from Drawda) you hear some of the Strongest inner city apples and oranges accents. Insecure idiots me tinks

Diddler82

My name is URL wrote: »

I have relations in Donnybrook and they sound nothing like the roish crowd

it's all a fcuking act with the people that use the accent, and they need a slap

Agree completely!!

Working in recruitment I come across these very regularily.

The worst and definitely most pretentious was a young lady last week who told me that she would be out of the office tomorrow but she would be contactable on her "Blackberry".

Its a glorified fcuking mobile phone and she was not called again!

Hamiltonion

I'm from the midlands but moved up to D2 (the city centre, not the dive of a club) for college, accent hasnt changed at all apart from the 'th' thing, but I think thats more to do with the fact that its easier to understand than anything else. Friends still laugh the most at my pronounciation of horse ie 'Herse'

lightening

Diddler82 wrote: »

Working in recruitment I come across these very regularily.

The worst and definitely most pretentious was a young lady last week who told me that she would be out of the office tomorrow but she would be contactable on her "Blackberry".

Its a glorified fcuking mobile phone and she was not called again!

Very professional. Don't call people back cause you don't like their accent or phone. Accents don't bother me, the D4 Accent has been around for generations, it has been mimicked by people all over the country. Big deal.

brummytom

pikachucheeks wrote: »

I personally blame MTV and various other American media that's infiltrated Ireland.

My cousin watches loads of different American TV on Nickelodeon : 'Drake and Josh', 'Hannah Montana' etc ... When she was seven, she asked me who I had a "super crush" on! Scary.

Their lingo and accents are infectious. Never mind Swine Flu, Americanisms are the real danger, roysh!

I don't understand this - the accent freaks me out.
I've never heard anyone over here talking with an american accent, and all of our kids TV was American (Kenan and Kel sort of stuff).

I can't get people putting on a ridiculous accent; it's not just the D4s, it's the polar opposite aswell, the 'wannabe gangsters'. Why can't everyone just talk normally?!

pikachucheeks

Salvelinus wrote: »

No, it says a lot more about Ireland than MTV or America.

Well, obviously, considering Ireland's the one picking up their accent.

Lux23

I find people who are geniune D4, wealthy types don't really have this accent or if they do its not half as bad as people from areas like Rathgar or Rathfarnham. The worst one I ever came across was a girl from Limerick who had a half Limerick accent (not the soft one, the real strong one) mixed with D4. It was horrible and it was so obvious that she picked it up after one week in UCD.

But people put alot of stock into accents when really they mean nothing at the end of the day, you really can't judge people by them. I went to good schools and as a result I speak very well yet I am from Swords, grew up in a council house and my Dad is a taxi driver. But people always assume I am from a wealthy background and a nice southside suburb, they go on like I am putting it when they find out.

Snowie

I know 2 girls with a D4 accent = some of them have stupidly stupid names like scarlet or loyd, or something, and there parent drive 89 Volvos because they have a central heating bill of 10 k a year because they live in an ancient house, and goo halves on a yacht with there friends and generally are as bad a scum bags for being complete and utter arse holes.

I dislike D4 people because there fvcking fake.

Oh and whats the deal with walking around with quick silver cloths on trying to look like surfer's?

MUPPETS

Tim Robbins

Lux23 wrote: »

I find people who are geniune D4, wealthy types don't really have this accent or if they do its not half as bad as people from areas like Rathgar or Rathfarnham. The worst one I ever came across was a girl from Limerick who had a half Limerick accent (not the soft one, the real strong one) mixed with D4. It was horrible and it was so obvious that she picked it up after one week in UCD.

+1
The auld anglo Irish - Church of Ireland Southsiders are fine.
It's the nouveau riche southside wannabe's that really exaggerate the hole D4 thing.

As a Northsider, I find it cringe inducing.

I have amazing diction myself. I should have made it in the media but I just didn't bother trying.

Epic Tissue

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Did you see the two 17 year old twins from Dublin on the X-Factor?

First question Simon Cowell asks them is "If you're Irish, why are you talking with an American accent?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1yXqTsU6WA

Diddler82

lightening wrote: »

Very professional

Not really but meh...she annoyed me.

lightening wrote: »

Accents don't bother me, the D4 Accent has been around for generations, it has been mimicked by people all over the country. Big deal.

Fair enough its not a big deal but its damn annoying when you speak to someone from Galway/Cork/**insert small rural town anywhere in Ireland** who sounds like they were brought up in D4 on Dubes and Donnybrook Fair.

hidinginthebush

genericguy wrote: »

i think it's become more widespread since the heads of the D4 jedi council started sending groups of young men out to nightclubs to kick those without the accent to death.

them's stabbing fighting words there mister!

Epic Tissue

Diddler82 wrote: »

Not really but meh...she annoyed me.



Fair enough its not a big deal but its damn annoying when you speak to someone from Galway/Cork/**insert small rural town anywhere in Ireland** who sounds like they were brought up in D4 on Dubes and Donnybrook Fair.

Why does that annoy you?

BraziliaNZ

I have 3 cousins from big house in Dalkey who sound more Dublin than I do, and I'm from the Northside.
Irish girls nowadays, moreso the middle/upper class ones, are obsessed with rich Americans and their way of life, so now they sound like Paris Hilton etc.
Miriam's accent is awful, she should know better than to talk like that at her age.
Did anyone see that Debs program on TV3 the other day, I had to turn it off after 5 minutes.

Tim Robbins

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I have 3 cousins from big house in Dalkey who sound more Dublin than I do, and I'm from the Northside.
Irish girls nowadays, moreso the middle/upper class ones, are obsessed with rich Americans and their way of life, so now they sound like Paris Hilton etc.
Miriam's accent is awful, she should know better than to talk like that at her age.
Did anyone see that Debs program on TV3 the other day, I had to turn it off after 5 minutes.

I don't like mis correlation with Leinster rugby. How many of the Leinster team speak with D4 accents at present?

Zero.

BraziliaNZ

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I don't like mis correlation with Leinster rugby. How many of the Leinster team speak with D4 accents at present?

Zero.

Brian O'Driscoll anyone?

Cianos

As we grow we are way more influenced by our peers than by our parents. Genetics are passed down, but for everything else we gather influence way more from our surroundings than our parents. As an example of this in relation to accents, is that very often you will have children of immigrants with a thick local accent so long as they have grown up in the country - think of all those Asian americans with twangy American accents, sounding nothing like their parents.

So I think the D4 accent is a product of the fact that TV is the main focal point common in nearly all youngsters, because of course most TV is of American origin, thus the American twang finds its way in to otherwise quite neutral accents (south Dublin accent being one of them).

Lux23

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Brian O'Driscoll anyone?

I don't think so, I think he just speaks well. Shane Horgan who is a meath man should be shot, his accent is almost certainly acquired, the retarded lisp makes it even worse.

Diddler82

Epic Tissue wrote: »

Why does that annoy you?

Because it is like just losing your identity.

I much prefer to hear someone with a Cork/Galway/whatever accent as you can tell where the person is from and it gives them a bit more identity than the masses who sound exactly the same despite being from all different parts of the country.

So to you answer you, it annoys me that people cannot remain true to themselves and feel they have to change for whatever pathetic excuse they convince themselves with.