Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2009-2011

Deise Tom

doz wrote: »

In fairness to the players, though many of them were nowhere near their best today, they did battle on until the end and deserve some credit for that. I think today has illustrated that Davy has probably gone as far as he can with this team. Tactically we were a shambles and if we are to have a chance against Galway, we need to pick a starting 15 and stick with it. I would play Liam Lawlor at full back and leave him there. He did fine when he came on. What killed the two lines of defence today was the constant chopping and changing everytime something went wrong in the first half. It was clear that this confused the players and badly sapped their confidence. They were lambs to the slaughter and I really felt sorry for them.
I don't like criticising individuals and won't do so here but I do think it is now high time that Adrian Power was given his chance in goal. I would be interested to see if any others that were at the game today feel likewise.

To me when you see that, it usually means that the manager does not have much of a clue. You have to let people settle. How can they if they are moved from A to B to C every few minutes.

Deise Tom

User Friendly wrote: »

I havent read all the comments on here today,but Waterford "fans" should remember,this is the same Davy fitz who led ye to the AI final 3 years ago,the same davy fitz that cpt stephen Molumpy thanked in his speech after collecting the munster cup in a replay last year!

The players must accept that they were dreadful throughout.

But isnt that the done thing. You thank the manager, selectors and backroom team publically in your speach when you win, regardless of who they are.

Deise Tom

Cake Man wrote: »

Don't even want to talk about the game, horrible horrible fcuking horrible day. Minors beaten convincingly, seniors beaten after 10mins.

Any ideas where the Galway game will be on? If they've any sense they'll do another minor/senior double header but obviously that'll make too much sense for that to happen.

Agree re Clinton, Power must be given a chance next game. He surely would have saved at least 2 of those goals and picked out the majority of his puckouts. Clinton was very suspect today.

Am i the only one that thinks he done well today. OK there was seven goals went in, but how many could have been stopped. He was exposed too much from elsewhere around the ground. In fact i thought he made a few decent saves one very good one in the second half.

Deise Tom

KevIRL wrote: »

John Mullane apologising to Waterford fans on the Sunday Game. Fair dues John.

John is a top man.

doz

Deise Tom wrote: »

To me when you see that, it usually means that the manager does not have much of a clue. You have to let people settle. How can they if they are moved from A to B to C every few minutes.

Absolutely correct. It was obviously a deliberate ploy for the Tipp full forward line to constantly switch and move as they did knowing that we seemed to have settled on man marking. In any event, we reacted poorly to it and you would have to lay some blame on the manager for that.

However at the end of it all, I think we all know our team is nowhere near as bad as it showed today. You would have to hope that we will learn from this and settle on a full back line for the Galway game. I expect dramatic improvement and our season is not over yet.

Mountainlad

Deise Tom wrote: »

But isnt that the done thing. You thank the manager, selectors and backroom team publically in your speach when you win, regardless of who they are.

Yeah I mean he was hardly gonna call him a useless c*nt.

On the topic of Clinton, as you may know I like him, and standby the feeling that he has been under-rated the past few years. Don't think he had a chance for any of the goals except maybe the first, which unfortunately I missed on the Sunday game tonight, it was the one thing I really wanted to see (that and Tipp's 6th goal, Kelly's 2nd, it was a brilliant goal). I'd agree that Power should probably be broought in though now, like Clinton is 34 and I think he maybe in decline and Power probably deserves a chance at this stage!

Le King

Why does Davy insist on playing Brick anywhere else? He holds the whole unit from midfield to the full back line together and why is Molumphy captain? Surely Brick would be a better option. He is extremely weak in open play and is hardly inspiring.

Sorry if that's a bit intrusive as a first post but it's sad to see a team like Waterford be beaten so badly. Davy needs to go no matter what happens against Galway. Stopping teams isn't going to win All-Irelands.

Mountainlad

Le King wrote: »

Why does Davy insist on playing Brick anywhere else? He holds the whole unit from midfield to the full back line together and why is Molumphy captain? Surely Brick would be a better option. He is extremely weak in open play and is hardly inspiring.

Sorry if that's a bit intrusive as a first post but it's sad to see a team like Waterford be beaten so badly. Davy needs to go no matter what happens against Galway. Stopping teams isn't going to win All-Irelands.

Agree with most of your post except that. Molumphy was very good against Limerick and time and time again he's been the under-rated grafter many teams have. A very good captain.

Brick should have been left alone at centre back. And again, agreed, you won't win games trying to stop the opposition scoring because it can't be done, you have to just get more scores than them.

niallo27

Mountainlad wrote: »

Agree with most of your post except that. Molumphy was very good against Limerick and time and time again he's been the under-rated grafter many teams have. A very good captain.

Brick should have been left alone at centre back. And again, agreed, you won't win games trying to stop the opposition scoring because it can't be done, you have to just get more scores than them.

Thats all very well saying that, but when the opposition has better players in nearly every position you have to come up with some plan, it went horribly wrong today but he had to try something.

detective

What an incredible hiding you guys got today! Reminds me of the 2009 All Ireland Semi Final when Tipperary beat us of the park in a very similar fashion. I must say that John Mullane's comments after the game were those of a seriously honest and humble man.

I have no doubt you guys will beat Galway though. Waterford have consistently been the 2nd or 3rd best team in the country for 5 years. Now you are 3rd in my opinion but the problem is the gap between 3rd and 1st/2nd. Its an enormous difference.

Hope the GAA do what they did in 2009 and play the two quarters as a double header in Thurles. Hope the results are the same as they were that day too.


Heads up. It's days like today the real fans wear the blue and white until the Monday morning.

Le King

Mountainlad wrote: »

Agree with most of your post except that. Molumphy was very good against Limerick and time and time again he's been the under-rated grafter many teams have. A very good captain.

Brick should have been left alone at centre back. And again, agreed, you won't win games trying to stop the opposition scoring because it can't be done, you have to just get more scores than them.

Fair enough, haven't saw a whole lot of Molumphy this year but I'd reiterate my point about him for last year. Also Eoin McGrath was never going to cause much bother for Padraic Maher and what is it with Davy giving young lads a chance then taking them off after less than half an hour? Surely scarring early on like that without a proper chance is just detrimental to young hurlers career.

Mountainlad

niallo27 wrote: »

Thats all very well saying that, but when the opposition has better players in nearly every position you have to come up with some plan, it went horribly wrong today but he had to try something.

When we restored Brick to his position at centre back we played better. I don't think we would have won anyway but maybe it wouldn't have been what we saw. Putting in Maher, and putting three other backs in positions they've never played in before for the Waterford senior hurling team against the most potent attack in the country was hardly a good idea. They might as well not have had a plan if you actually watch what happened today. And Eoin McGrath at wing forward...the game was conceded before throw in.

Mountainlad

Le King wrote: »

Fair enough, haven't saw a whole lot of Molumphy this year but I'd reiterate my point about him for last year. Also Eoin McGrath was never going to cause much bother for Padraic Maher and what is it with Davy giving young lads a chance then taking them off after less than half an hour? Surely scarring early on like that without a proper chance is just detrimental to young hurlers career.

What is it with Davy in general.

niallo27

Mountainlad wrote: »

When we restored Brick to his position at centre back we played better. I don't think we would have won anyway but maybe it wouldn't have been what we saw. Putting in Maher, and putting three other backs in positions they've never played in before for the Waterford senior hurling team against the most potent attack in the country was hardly a good idea. They might as well not have had a plan if you actually watch what happened today. And Eoin McGrath at wing forward...the game was conceded before throw in.

They must be going well in training and challenge games though, i though the half back line did ok, when waterford were struggling against limerick the brick went back there to sure things up, he tried to do the same today, does he have options in the squad though, what full back line would you have played.

Daysha

Yup, I don't have the willpower or energy to write anything substantial on that either. Only in the door because of the woeful traffic around Cork. Hope I never have to return to that dump in its current form.

In many ways today was far worse than the All-Ireland final. 2008 was a freak occasion when the players just froze on the biggest day of their lives against the best hurling team in the planet. I'm fairly confident the Kilkenny team that day would beat today's Tipp XV.

But this was a Munster final! We're meant to fcuking thrive on these occasions!! We are not 21 points worse than Tipperary but we were shocking on the field and even worse off it. In my innocence I got myself excited when I saw Maurice named as starting in the programme, but once Eoin McGrath took the field I knew it wasn't going to end well. Grand yeah he runs after the ball. But does he actually WIN the ball?!?!

As deise girl put so well, I really fear about what this could do to the younger lads. Wayne Hutchinson must be in pieces. Jerome Maher deserved better. Darragh Fives didn't know what position he was meant to be playing at times, and Brian O'Sullivan could've done a lot better if he was given the supply in the first place. These are really good players, but trying to man-mark the Tipperary forward line with such little experience was just...gut wrenching to watch.

As like nearly everybody except Davy could see beforehand, Brick wasn't suited to the FB role. We took the best centre-back in the country, started him at the edge of the square and told him to go wherever Lar Corbett went. In the meantime, in the backbone of the side at the number 6 position, Kevin Moran was getting dizzy by the Tipp rotations. Another gamble on a big day that didn't pay off.

From the moment I saw Clinton reigning high balls down the middle of the field on top of the Tipp HB line, I felt like weeping. Does anyone have any stats of how many our own puck-outs we actually won? I'd love to see what it was.

I'm afraid to say aswell that must surely be the end of Clinton Hennessy as our first choice goalkeeper. I'm refusing to look at the highlights right now and might never will, but any keeper that concedes seven goals in a big Championship game needs to have a long hard look at himself, regardless of the line in front of him. As I heard someone say, Clinton doesn't seem to purposefully dive for the ball in one-on-ones, he just makes himself as a big as possible and hope for the best. But if we are going to be put under constant pressure around the square we absolutely must need a good shot stopper, and Adrian Power is our man. He has to start against Galway.

I suppose the one thing is that, for all our FB failings in the past, we've never had a day where the line completely capitulated. It was always the odd two or three mistakes that would be the difference in the past, but 7 goals.....SEVEN!....in a Munster final. It's the kinda stuff you'd have nightmares about.

Positives? Well Pauric Mahony hit 13 points in his 1st ever Munster final, so fair play to ya young fella. You'll go places in the future. Tony Browne wasn't as good as last year but was still our best half-back, with a nicely taken point to boot. After that....eh.....

Now for Davy. I defended him more than most in the past. I thought solidifying our position as the 3rd/4th best team in the country while making such drastic changes to the panel was a fair achievement, and a Munster title on top of everything as well. But holy mother of christ he has fcuked up big time on sooo many occasions. I haven't heard any interviews he's given yet, but if he comes out with his 'I tell ya one thing, these bunch of lads will come back fighting so they will' I might actually punch a wall. Davy, this team ALWAYS fought. They ALWAYS gave it 100% right to the end. But what you've done is manage to make us a walking train-wreck going into any big game, and for a county like ours which has had some many ups and downs in the past, seeing us gets results like this is absolutely heartbreaking.

I've heard more than a few people suggest Davy needs to go ASAP, and to get someone in place for the Galway game. This, of course, would be a huge mistake. The next managerial appointment we make will be absolutely critical. One of the biggest decisions our CB will potentially ever make. And regardless of who he is, the right man won't be got mid-Championship. Especially 2 weeks before an All-Ireland quarter-final.

So I'm getting behind him and the lads as always. I'll travel to Thurles/Dublin/wherever the match will be (although I'm genuinely fearful over what kind of Waterford crowd will be there) and we'll hope for the best. But the moment the final whistle goes on our season, whether it's against Galway, Kilkenny or whoever, I'm assuming you're a goner and I look forward to seeing who'll get the most important job in the county.

....so much for not writing anything substantial!

niallo27

Le King wrote: »

Fair enough, haven't saw a whole lot of Molumphy this year but I'd reiterate my point about him for last year. Also Eoin McGrath was never going to cause much bother for Padraic Maher and what is it with Davy giving young lads a chance then taking them off after less than half an hour? Surely scarring early on like that without a proper chance is just detrimental to young hurlers career.

If he left them on, he would probaly get abuse for not having the balls to take them off.

Mountainlad

niallo27 wrote: »

They must be going well in training and challenge games though, i though the half back line did ok, when waterford were struggling against limerick the brick went back there to sure things up, he tried to do the same today, does he have options in the squad though, what full back line would you have played.

Fives, Lawlor, Connors. Hold their positions. Maurice starting wing forward. Don't think we'd have won anyway (would have been at least respectable though), but the problem wasn't just today it's been the last few years. They haven't been coached right which is why we're a good way behind Tipp and Kilkenny and why we were never realistically going to win today.

PARKHEAD67

niallo27 wrote: »

If he left them on, he would probaly get abuse for not having the balls to take them off.

As a Clare man I can categorically state that Davy Fitz is a little bollix.A self-centred little prick.

Daysha

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

As a Clare man I can categorically state that Davy Fitz is a little bollix.A self-centred little prick.

Banned. Don't need to explain why.

niallo27

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

As a Clare man I can categorically state that Davy Fitz is a little bollix.A self-centred little prick.

I'm a clare man myself and i totally agree with you, i could tell you some stories about him, my point is more is too easy to blame the manager when the players arent good enough.

Professey Chin

Daysha wrote: »

As like nearly everybody except Davy could see beforehand, Brick wasn't suited to the FB role. We took the best centre-back in the country, started him at the edge of the square and told him to go wherever Lar Corbett went. In the meantime, in the backbone of the side at the number 6 position, Kevin Moran was getting dizzy by the Tipp rotations. Another gamble on a big day that didn't pay off.

Now for Davy. I defended him more than most in the past. I thought solidifying our position as the 3rd/4th best team in the country while making such drastic changes to the panel was a fair achievement, and a Munster title on top of everything as well. But holy mother of christ he has fcuked up big time on sooo many occasions. I haven't heard any interviews he's given yet, but if he comes out with his 'I tell ya one thing, these bunch of lads will come back fighting so they will' I might actually punch a wall. Davy, this team ALWAYS fought. They ALWAYS gave it 100% right to the end. But what you've done is manage to make us a walking train-wreck going into any big game, and for a county like ours which has had some many ups and downs in the past, seeing us gets results like this is absolutely heartbreaking.

One the 1st point here, Brick wasnt even given Corbett.He was given O'Brian. Maher was told to follow Corbett (Christ in hell theres another decision)

And on Davys interview, dont listen to the WLR one

niallo27

Mountainlad wrote: »

Fives, Lawlor, Connors. Hold their positions. Maurice starting wing forward. Don't think we'd have won anyway (would have been at least respectable though), but the problem wasn't just today it's been the last few years. They haven't been coached right which is why we're a good way behind Tipp and Kilkenny and why we were never realistically going to win today.

Every team is miles behind tipp and KK, coaching can only bring you so far, if the players arent good enough they are not good enough, your man maurice did look good when he came on, on your full back line it nearly impossible hold your positions with the constant switching the tipp forwards did

Professey Chin

niallo27 wrote: »

I'm a clare man myself and i totally agree with you, i could tell you some stories about him, my point is more is too easy to blame the manager when the players arent good enough.

Those players are much better then they showed today. Theyve been getting worse under Davy though

Daysha

Mega Chin wrote: »

One the 1st point here, Brick wasnt even given Corbett.He was given O'Brian. Maher was told to follow Corbett (Christ in hell theres another decision)

Thanks you're right. Still need to sit down and watch it again to see who went where, but I won't be doing that anytime soon.

niallo27

Mega Chin wrote: »

Those players are much better then they showed today. Theyve been getting worse under Davy though

There is no doubting that, the players have being getting older under Davy too, he has lost some huge players for waterford in the last 2 years, today was a freak result.

PTH2009

anyone feel like they never want to go to cork for a match ever again in there lifes ???.

The Traffic was woeful and the stadium needs to be knocked and rebuild asap. sure Paric Ui Rinn can be used as Corks home ground

Minstrel27

PTH2009 wrote: »

anyone feel like they never want to go to cork for a match ever again in there lifes ???.

The Traffic was woeful and the stadium needs to be knocked and rebuild asap. sure Paric Ui Rinn can be used as Corks home ground

Pairc Ui Caoimh is a kip and those ****ing villiages between Middleton and Youghal. Why were they never bypassed when the country had money is beyond me :mad:

Deise Hurler

Very disappointing day. But it's gone and hopefully something can be salvaged from our season. As Deise Tom said we need to get back to playing the swashbuckling style of hurling that we played before Davy put his stamp on the team.
Davy needs to pick the best 15 players in their best positions, let them play their own game and don't be worrying so much about what the opposition are going to do.
No reason why we can't beat Galway but changes need to made. I have said on here before that Adrian Power should be our keeper and that Shane Fives is the best full back in Waterford. Would love to see both given their chance the next day. It would be throwing both them in the deep end for their first championship start, and as today showed that's not ideal but better late than never. Darragh Fives and Noel Connors both in the corners. Pity Eoin Murphy is still injured. We could do with his experience and guile right now more than ever. The Brick should be left center back, where he can dominate and would love to see Aidan Kearney back in the team at wing back, with Tony on the other wing. Unfortunately can't see ringo getting in as its obvious that Davy and his selectors don't rate him. Kevin Moran did well in midfield today and himself and Eoin Kelly should start their. Kelly is another player who has being shuned by Fitzgerald this year and while he can frustrate fans at times, he surely hasn't lost his undoubted ability and a fit motivated Kelly is someone we cannot do without. Pauric Mahony has been one of our best players so far this year, and he should be joined in the half forward line by Molumphy and Maurice Shanahan, who was a big improvement on McGrath when he came on today. The full forward line should stay the same as started today. My two cents but that would be the best fifteen players in their best positions. Go out and just leave them hurl away in their positions, no real tactics other than play your position and play fast low ball into the full forward line. Can't be any worse than today's performance anyway.

nkay1985

First of all, great post Daysha. Thoroughly agree with you that getting rid of Davy now and rushing into a decision would be the worst thing that could happen. As such, we need to just get behind the lads like we always do and give them as much support during what's going to be a big test against Galway.

On the topic of the future manager, what do people think of Michael Ryan as a possibility? He's done great with De La Salle and has inter-county success in the ladies' code.

With regard to the back line against Galway, how about Declan Prendergast in at full back? No matter what combination we've played all season, one thing we're lacking in the full back line is a bit of experience. I've bemoaned Declan playing there in the past. It's certainly not his strongest position but I think he's at least got a bit of strength and experience that could stand to us.

I'd also love to see Ringo get his shot on the wing but I've given up all hope of that happening while the current management team is in place.

hardybuck

Lads,.

Still coming to terms with the game, but starting to think more clearly. I assume many are in the same boat. Some initial thoughts...

1. Brick didn't play full back. Due to the constant rotation of the Tipp forwards (a tactic ironically which we used to deploy) Brick didn't play full back for any great period. We had the worst of both worlds in the sense that he was neither full back or centre back. Clearly the players were told to man mark, which is a huge error from management.

2. Individual selections. Jerome Maher was badly treated today. Thrown in there on his debut, whipped off before half time, left mark Lar Corbett...worst piece of man management since Iggy O'Regan was thrown in for his debut in the All Ireland semi v Kilkenny as a teenager in Croke Park a few years ago.

3. Pace. In every sense of the word. Tipp were on a different level of pace, touch, intensity. I don't think we could ever match that.

4. Half forward line. Almost a big a problem as full back line currently. As we can't win any possession there now it actually exaggerates the problems we have at full back. We may need to experiment with putting a defender out there like Declan Prendergast purely to try and win puck outs. Was a big problem in the minor final also.

5. We may need to get used to this. Ourselves, Cork, Limerick and Clare are a long way off Tipp & KK. If we aren't careful we might loose ground with Dublin & Galway. We've had 6 debutants in two games. While I know everyone is excited about the underage teams, O'Mahony aside none of them have stepped up yet, and he wasn't one who you would have been expecting to be the first to break through.